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dtour
6th October 2009, 05:07 PM
AE86 RWD 20V Conversion

When researching the 20V conversion I came across a few headaches for one some people’s attitudes just sucked I know there is a search function! Every time I used it I got a thread with the answer use the search function. I have created this thread to make it a shit load less confusing to do this conversion, I have also included the places where I go the parts from because i know getting this stuff can be a pain in the ass.
So here it is all in one place, bias free.
This is not the cheapest way to perform this conversion but in my opinion it is the right way.

*Will be uploading pics soon to make it even more clear*

Parts Needed:
- 20V 4age
- RS-Chita Waterkit – RHDjapan.com
- 16V RWD Waterpump, thermostat housing, bypass pipes for heater – imported from japan by Craig @ Just JDM
- 16V altenator bracket – imported from japan by Craig @ Just JDM
- 16V crank pully – imported from japan by Craig @ Just JDM
- Distributor blanking cover/Crank angle sensor cover – Made by me
- 2NZ Coilpacks off a Toyota echo – Pick N Payless
- Ecu and loom – Kaizen Garage
- MAP Sensor – Comes with ECU and loom
- RWD extractors – Kaizen Garage
- Clutch to suit a 212mm flywheel – Excedy
- Fuel pumps: One low pressure lift pump, one high pressure efi pump and Surge tank – Rocket industries
- KE70 Accelerator cable
- Trumpets – Techno Toy Tuning
- Thermo fans
- Gearbox mount spacer - had it machined out of 10mm thick alloy plate



Ditributor cover/CAS Cover

- Remove the spark plug leads
- Unscrew the three screws holding in the distributor and remove the cover
- Measure 3cm from the opening to the back of the cover
- Using a utensil of your choice to cut the excess part of the cover off
- Make a ‘mould’ by taping the end that was cut off
- Lay in a sheet of fibreglass and coat with resin once the resin is touch try remove the tape from the cover and coat with another layer of resin
- Smooth to your satisfaction and paint the colour of your choice

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7877/photo0166o.th.jpg (http://img16.imageshack.us/i/photo0166o.jpg/)
^^^What you should be left with after removing the cap and rotor button^^^
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/5076/photo0169o.th.jpg (http://img23.imageshack.us/i/photo0169o.jpg/)
^^^Showing the fiberglass on the inside^^^
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4263/photo0170a.th.jpg (http://img33.imageshack.us/i/photo0170a.jpg/)
^^^DONE^^^
2NZ Coilpacks

Perfect height for the 20V however the diameter of the shaft is greater than that of the motor. All that is needed to fit the coilpacks is to file down the shaft of the coilpack until it fits down the tube.
Picked mine up from Pick N Payless for $80 for a set of four.

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/2193/photo0162n.th.jpg (http://img199.imageshack.us/i/photo0162n.jpg/)
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9238/photo0163d.th.jpg (http://img15.imageshack.us/i/photo0163d.jpg/)

RWD Exhaust

20V Rwd extractors from kaizen garage, if you are using a ADM T50 where the clutch slave is on the passenger side of the transmission. You will require a 90° fitting for the connection also available from kaizen

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/3797/trdcopieskc2.jpg

Intake

You cannot use the standard airbox without modifying it to suit a RWD operation, if u wish to use it you have to seal the original opening and create an opening on the opposite end off the air box. That is a bit of effort so I decided to use velocity stacks/trumpets. When going down this path a MAP Sensor is required.

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8020/photo0130d.th.jpg (http://img96.imageshack.us/i/photo0130d.jpg/)

ECU and Loom

It is not possible to use the standard ECU due to the use of coilpacks and removal of the distributor.
I used the Adaptronic ECU and loom custom made by Anthony at Kaizen

Clutch

If you are converting your AE86 from a 4AC your flywheel will not fit the 20V motor the 4AC has six bolt mounting and the 20V has 8 bolts so ensure that you get a manual 20V motor. Most transmission places will be able to match a clutch to your flywheel. So you will need a clutch and a spigot bearing. Spigot bearing number is 6001
Thrust bearing is a NACHI Bearings product and it needs to be pressed onto the sleave that connects to the clutch fork. the part number for the bearing is BRG2155
the clutch and pressure plate are just the regular 200 or 212mm setup for a 4AGE


Thermo Fans and Radiator

If you are converting your AE86 from a 4ac i recommend replacing the stock radiator, as a mininmum a JDM 4age radiator(Twin Core) often you can pick up a cheap aluminum twin core off ebay and upgrading to twin thermo fans is also a must, two 10 inch thermo fans work well.


Gearbox Spacer

After mounting the motor and gearbox there can still be issues in regards to clearance of the heater core hoses and the tumpets hitting the brake booster. to correct this i had a spacer made up to lift the gearbox and the rear of the motor to gain the extra clearance that you need. this is not always necesary it just depends on your setup.

Matt-AE86
7th October 2009, 12:20 AM
All parts can be easily ordered through Jesse Streeter. Makes life easier and overall it will end up cheaper.

Another way to fit the 2NZ coilpacks is to initially file of the higher points then use rough grit sand paper, wrap it around the coilpack stem and turn back and forward vigorously. Check it often and test fit it in the plug hole.

DRFTR86
7th October 2009, 12:18 PM
Sam q on here makes a 20v rwd waterkit aswell, and has plenty in stock

i beleive he also does a adaptor plate for different coilpacks aswell

sq engineering ftw

Matt-AE86
21st October 2009, 10:11 AM
Rs-Chita Kit is the way to go. The quality is awesome and it puts everything in a stock position for 16v hoses heater and radiator. If you are going for a clean neat freak install. The even supply orings for water pump to block and the bypass pipe from the top outlet to a rwd water pump rear housing and other gaskets etc. A manual booklet with installation instructions, specifics for silver and blacktop variants as there is very small differences in the block.

If anyone wants one of this send me a PM.
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/7/1/15282.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/7/1/26163.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/7/1/26164.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/7/1/26165.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/7/1/26166.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/7/1/26167.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/7/1/26168.jpg

Grant #2
21st October 2009, 07:41 PM
Some of the people on club4ag (including myself) just replicated the RS chita kit by using 16V parts and a block off plate that was on ebay. The only welding was to create a water outlet, like the casting that RS chita made. It was about $130 USD when I was done.

Delazy
21st October 2009, 11:52 PM
Some of the people on club4ag (including myself) just replicated the RS chita kit by using 16V parts and a block off plate that was on ebay. The only welding was to create a water outlet, like the casting that RS chita made. It was about $130 USD when I was done.

does it look anywhere near as neat as the rs chita water outlet?? prolly not...does it come with EVERY gasket and part you need?? prolly not...is it a pron branded jap part...definately not lol...

quite happy with my rs-chita kit...not cheap..but the water outlet alone is worth the money...so mint, you'd nearly think it was totally factory...

quite devo that ive decided to run no heaters and plan to butcher the rear plate to achieve a neater finish :(

Matt-AE86
22nd October 2009, 12:53 AM
Don't need to butcher the rear plate. leave it on there and just plug up the pipe.

Grant #2
22nd October 2009, 04:17 AM
W/e man, you speant your hard earned cash on that kit, I decided to piece the kit together myself.

And it looks just as neat as RS chita, BC ITS THE SAME THING haha.

It's fine man, if I bought the kit and I found out you could just grab some parts and have the same thing, I'd be defending it too, don't worry.

LittleRedSpirit
22nd October 2009, 10:35 AM
Its a nice kit but Id prefer to use the techno toy tuning kit since it replicates the Toyota cooling system and its flow more closely. Its about the same money. That is if I wanted to spend close to a grand for no reason.

Bang for buck you only need three compnents to get a good, functional cooling system. If you have accepted that you will be not routing the water the same way as Toyota, that is.

A sam Q rear blockoff and sensor plate, a small blockoff plate for behind the extractors (make at home) and a Yager motorsport front thermostat fitting. You really dont need a bypass, just run a slight colder thermostat so it stays open when your up it. It all works a treat, thats how Ive had mine, and it would cost under $300 to fit, including a new thermostat and some blue goo.

I dont understand at all why the RS chita kit is 'better' than any other way of doing it. A 16v water system doesnt translate to a 20v water system, so to treat it the same is wrong in my opinion. Yay its japanese, once you stop caring about wheteher your 20v water kit gets you some JDM rep, you may realise that its the wrong way to do it.

Delazy
22nd October 2009, 11:13 AM
Its a nice kit but Id prefer to use the techno toy tuning kit since it replicates the Toyota cooling system and its flow more closely. Its about the same money. That is if I wanted to spend close to a grand for no reason.
.

I myself did consider the t3 kit. But my preference leaning towards the clean oem look of the rschita or a pieced tohether kit. The other factor was external piping which i wanted to stay away from as the possibility of introducing leaks into the system was likely. Consider it preventive maintence.

Also not quite sure ehat or where yout spending close to 1k on the kit, cause i certainly didnt. Also paid quite substanially less than the t3 kit.

LittleRedSpirit
22nd October 2009, 11:40 AM
The chita kit makes sense in an 86 since it just tries to make the 20v fit in all the same way as a bigport as far as the cooling goes. Personally i prefer to base such decisions around the motor, not the chassis.

Kudos for not paying a fortune. I've never seen the chita kit advertised for less that the $700 mark, then add some shipping and exchange possibly. Thats also around what the t3 kit costs. The t3 kit gives more for your money since they custom make almost every part in there.

If you honestly rate the importance of having fewer connections in the system to leak from, you would do it the way I have done it (and described above) and use only 4 hose clamps in the system. :shocked:

Matt-AE86
22nd October 2009, 12:38 PM
¥46,326 Landed to my door. I paid $716~ at a shit rate of 64yen.

So say we bought it today 80yen... $579~

That said I only bought the Chita kit cause I wanted the cleanest stockist possible look. If I was to do it again I would just get a SamQ rear plate, and flip the front outlet, and be done.

Sam-Q
1st November 2009, 09:32 AM
ok I'll bite:

With the RS Chita kit I like the top outlet but I dislike the rear bypass. Yes to some the rear bypass may look more stock that others but it does stick out further and is more limited. For example many people I get want to run no heater, different sensor combinations, have the heater outlet facing the other way (pre ke's, old celicas, etc..) or just some other odd requests. This is why I designed mine the way I did. The other gripe I have with the RS Chita kit is the price, it is quite high at $800 or so, and even then I hear you still need to shave bits of metal here and there to make it fit.

My rear plate as shown below. This is the most common type- it has provision for the 20v ecu sensor, 4ac/4ag dash temp sensor and a left hand heater outlet barb for cars such as AE86/AE71 and KE70's. The catch is the ISCV valve has to be moved down one bolt hole or relocated when the heater is used and the sensors arn't easy to change once bolted to the head.

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/5/2/27336.jpg


http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/5/2/27337.jpg

Shown installed with sensors in place and a Kaizen dizzy cap used. Normally the factory bolts and nuts are used instead of these cap heads.


http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/5/2/27338.jpg
http://bkh808.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/img_0226.jpg

Coil plate adapter with 1NZ coils fitted, link to build blog:

http://bkh808.wordpress.com/2010/11/13/570




I also like the look of the Yager top outlet and while it's not cheap it does look pretty neat, admittedly more professional than what I offer, the problem is sourcing one.


Here is what I think is the most cost effective option out there being unbiased:

- External thermostat off a 4ac powered ae82
- rear bypass, side block off plate and top water outlet from myself
- stock unmodified 20v front and rear pump half.

thats it, as for the ignition system using 1NZ coils.

Sam-Q
1st November 2009, 10:09 AM
now the other parts

gearbox spacer: I never used one, maybe you guys can tell me how much difference it makes.

coilpacks: I also use 1NZ, I love it:

http://s127.photobucket.com/albums/p143/daunderdweller/engine/?action=view&current=coilmount9.jpg

apologies for the crappy quality pic, I now have a new camera. By memory the tubes in the coilpacks are 0.5mm larger than the 20v spark plug tubes, so by taking it down 0.8mm or so its a nice fit. I used a 4 jaw chuck for the body end with a live center on the spark plug end, quite a hair raising job.

Info on coilpacks here:

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=7098


Delazy: I am like old and shit, whats devo mean?

Grant #2: post some pics on here if you can.


I personally dont think there is anythign iffy about having that one port above the throttles having hot water instead of cold, infact I think it might even put more thermal stress on the head if it got too hot. I still plan on doing some temperature measurements on some heads to compare differences.

Jonny Rochester
8th December 2009, 09:18 PM
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/8/4/30905.jpg

Prototype. Camera phone.

This pipe uses the standard AE86 top radiator hose. A fitting is pressed into the waterpump and a short piece of hose is used for the bypass.

H8CHIR6KU
8th December 2009, 09:50 PM
check out my buiold thread if you want to see a combination of parts to make the 20v neat. granted it is only a track car so no heater, even still it would still work out neat.

i used the rs chita top outlet, sam q rear water plate and water pump plate, also the 16v rwd water pump. all up just 2 hoses and 4 clamps. the most important part is it was easy and there are not many places that it can leak from without being to hard to repair at the track.

also sam the rear gearbox plate was so useful. the difference between fitting my trumpets and having to buy smaller ones. also i can get my hand in the back of the engine easily

Sam-Q
9th December 2009, 06:33 PM
yeah I understand you, regardless it still looks decent. I figured out the reduced size from the other pics in your worklog. I am no expert but I would think even a 5mm opening is enough of a bypass.

Sam-Q
19th February 2010, 08:55 AM
I might as well put a link up here:

Sams new 20v cooling guide (http://s-86.com/s-newcoolingguide.html)

Grant #2
2nd March 2010, 03:30 PM
Sam, you have what is going to be a really awesome website, but you should have a friend re-read the articles you have written. It seems to be in Alpha stage right now.

Thanks for making it, I've read the cam page a couple of times.

Sam-Q
2nd March 2010, 05:34 PM
Sam, you have what is going to be a really awesome website, but you should have a friend re-read the articles you have written. It seems to be in Alpha stage right now.

Thanks for making it, I've read the cam page a couple of times.


hahaha now how can I argue with that. As you can tell my english skills don't match my technical ability. I should give everything another read myself as I should be able to pick up some things I didn't at the time. What would usually happen is I put a heap of effort into writing something and by the end of it I would be like 'screw it I have had enough' and post it.

But you are right and thanks

Oh also that cam guide is only a very vauge guideline

onelungderryl
26th May 2010, 06:59 PM
ECU and Loom

It is not possible to use the standard ECU due to the use of coilpacks and removal of the distributor.
I used the Adaptronic ECU and loom custom made by Anthony at KaizenYou can use the factory blacktop ecu with COPs. Theres a thread on club4ag about this, I've had my silvertop on blacktop electronics for almost a year daily driven atleast 30 miles. Diagram courtsy of VitriumGTS

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/5/0/8/5/44804.jpg

Link to original post

http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=18900&page=3


--SAMS EDIT--

Link to a guide on 86 garage that I think is much easier to follow:

- CoP batch fired coils (http://www.86garage.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=10869&sid=3d8b2cba0793f47f0673ce9f7a30773e)

dehney
17th January 2011, 05:11 PM
has any one wired the standard loom too the ae86 body loom im going to do this conversion and im going too using the loom and ecu that comes with the 20v just need too know what too wire up too the body loom.
cheers

Sam-Q
17th January 2011, 08:11 PM
hey it's under the wiring section of the technical index:

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php/23483-INDEX-OF-TECHNICAL-THREADS-Check-here-before-making-a-new-thread!

called: "Wiring diamgram of the large plastic plug on the firewall of an AE86"

lanky101
24th January 2011, 01:31 PM
chur boy's. found a bit of a gold mine at work today, got a set of coil packs and connectors that fit perfectly into b/t 20v s'plug tubes, no filing req, perfect height, only thing is they are off a Belntly Continental GT.... 4 pin, 2x earth, 1x 12v power supply and 1x signal. i doubt anyone will take this seriously, because, honestly, who's going to try and find 'em, but i'll do a bit of research and see if they are common with anything else. just thought i would put it out there. pics up soon.
brendo.

Sam-Q
24th January 2011, 06:59 PM
wow that's bizarre, yes post any extra information you have for sure ok?

lanky101
24th January 2011, 08:17 PM
more than likley, they will be the same as some V.W cars, (as V.W owns bentley...) ill dig.

billett86
23rd May 2011, 10:58 PM
has anyone in S.A done this conversion and can you get it registered in a ke70?

Kid Karola
24th May 2011, 09:49 AM
chur boy's. found a bit of a gold mine at work today, got a set of coil packs and connectors that fit perfectly into b/t 20v s'plug tubes, no filing req, perfect height, only thing is they are off a Belntly Continental GT.... 4 pin, 2x earth, 1x 12v power supply and 1x signal. i doubt anyone will take this seriously, because, honestly, who's going to try and find 'em, but i'll do a bit of research and see if they are common with anything else. just thought i would put it out there. pics up soon.
brendo.

Interesting.. very interstings. Are they from the 6.0 W12 or the 4.0 V8??
If you think about it splitting cost 2-3 ways for a set could be reasonable.
As you said likely common part with VW/Audi that runs similar engine (S/RS range)

lanky101
31st May 2011, 11:16 PM
I got about 30 of em at home now, they are outa the W12... I found that if you use the 'sam Q coil pack mount coupled with the s/plug lead seals off a 1.8 '05 corolla , they are nice and snug. I'll post some pics once I've wired them up into my car

Sam-Q
1st June 2011, 07:39 PM
I am interested to see how they fit, are they are 2 or 4 pin coil?

lanky101
8th June 2011, 03:51 PM
4 pin, 2x earth, 1x 12v power supply and 1x signal

Sam-Q
8th June 2011, 06:40 PM
so they also have built in ignitors which is excellent. Please post a pic sometime

Dfectd_Drftr
8th July 2011, 11:12 AM
I will be honest... I found the 20v conversion very simple, seems like some people make it out to be harder than it actually is! I purchased my water kit, spigot bearing etc from SAMQ here on the forums. He was very helpful and the kit works well. There are a few fluctuations in water pressure from standard, however I was to expect this when doing such a conversion.

As for a thermostat, I had a funky idea on how to make a housing actually look good! I purchased 2x 32mm V8 thermostat housings from a small block Chevrolet. By placing a thermostat in between the two, bolting them together and mounting them to the block, this makes for an effective, easy to maintain pressure system. It will not work if you require a heater, but on my 86 makes my engine bay just the little bit cleaner!

Also, I just cut a hole in my firewall, makes up for the lack of heater :P I will fix up the hole when winter and early morning driving is over!

Sam-Q
11th July 2011, 12:58 AM
thanks! although don't talk to me about holes in firewalls!

Things are likely to get even simpler soon, if things work out the way I expect then there should be two new distinctly different options of rear wheel drive compatiable air boxes, neither being made from my workshop unfortunetly but still. Also a Yager replacement pipe is in the works seeing they are no longer available.

dtour
11th July 2011, 01:43 PM
Do tell about these two options...

70XIN
12th July 2011, 01:54 AM
^2nd'd

Sam-Q
12th July 2011, 11:03 AM
I think there are 4 air-boxes available or going to be available for a 20V- Nobby Booth, Plasmaman, GTiR adaption and another one which I need to post a picture of.

The GTiR intake adaption has a thread on here about the progress of it, and the last one is about a manifold I can source and then modify myself to suit rear wheel drive. I doubt it will be worth my time though as it would cost in the region of $580. Well regardless I will get a picture up

Sam-Q
28th July 2011, 12:07 PM
I will shortly have a new water outlet available with a built in thermostat that should look really good. I will be an improvment of the Yager design which is no longer available as of a year ago. Is anyone interested in doing a test fit of one?