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stuartgze
13th October 2009, 07:20 PM
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/8/2/0/547676.jpg

corknose
13th October 2009, 07:22 PM
haha. good one.
its everywhere.

drift kid
13th October 2009, 07:30 PM
hahaha, so true :P
fkn banners, theyre everywhere.

driftke70
13th October 2009, 07:35 PM
money getting exchanged around the place i tell you that much,

theres one of those wierdo churches near my house, guy that owns it drives a porche with the plates kings1 and his church is kings church.

"come in and praise jesus! dont forget to pay at the door"

AJPS
13th October 2009, 07:40 PM
the church is one of the richest businesses going around

Breaka
13th October 2009, 07:44 PM
Preaching Atheists piss me off just as much as gospel preachers.

Anyhow.

Along with what beally has to say, it's all a money game. The Hillsong Church and other Charismatic type of organisations are particularly bad for their money making antics. They are somewhat affiliated with the Gloria Jeans Coffee franchise...go figure.

There's also a cult getting around in my local area who have literally adopted a town as their own and bought up every shop. There's porche 4x4's, statesmens and other expeno cars getting around a town where there's no real business happenings other than the local pub, workshop and general store. The head has been un-covered as a fraud on numerous occasions but still people follow him/them. They also own a few cafe's and retail business's in the CBD a larger main bordering town.

What scares me more than the bullshit they preach is people willingness to donate money to them rather open handedly.

AJPS
13th October 2009, 07:58 PM
^^ some fucking strange shit

we have hanky heads (closed bretherans) on my street, their church is a house and everything about it is strange

all their cars have the radios removed

the kids are scared of my puppy (like theyve never actually seen an animal before)

yeah, im not preaching atheist, i believe in a god, just not one that has anything to do with the god franchises on earth (lutheran, catholic, judaism..etc)

enigma
13th October 2009, 08:24 PM
isnt it great how Sanitarium are tax exempt cos they are a church. also are closed bretherans anything like exclusive bretherans?

Breaka
13th October 2009, 08:39 PM
isnt it great how Sanitarium are tax exempt cos they are a church. also are closed bretherans anything like exclusive bretherans?

Not because they 'are' a church, it's because Sanatarium owned by The Seventh Day Adventist's.

In a whole they are rich fuckers, normally well educated and don't spend coin on smokes, piss or drugs. I worked for a couple of them (thank christ I left) and they were pricks. No swearing on site or anything like that. They looked at me funny for eating a ham sandwhich, said grace before smoko and lunch and talked about church a whole heap. Do what they want but not my cup of tea...

Breaka
13th October 2009, 08:42 PM
isnt it great how Sanitarium are tax exempt cos they are a church. also are closed bretherans anything like exclusive bretherans?

Not because they 'are' a church, it's because Sanatarium owned by The Seventh Day Adventist's.

In a whole they are rich fuckers, normally well educated and don't spend coin on smokes, piss or drugs. I worked for a couple of them (thank christ I left) and they were pricks. No swearing on site or anything like that. They looked at me funny for eating a ham sandwhich, said grace before smoko and lunch and talked about church a whole heap. Do what they want but not my cup of tea...

ke70dave
13th October 2009, 09:44 PM
the church is one of the richest businesses going around

not mine, or any ive visited. big ones however do have alot of cash flow, but its flow out as well, not just spent on them selves.

do any of you have any actual dealings with churches at all?

and i don't mean "my mates brothers girlfriends mum is a religious freak"

or have any understanding of what the money that we give is used for?

if not, i am prepared to explain it all from my personal experiences (christian that is). either pm or msn: iamdavidhere@hotmail.com

what interests me is considering how "non-religious" this forum is, the topic of jesus tends to pop up very often!!

(for the record, Gloria jeans is owned by a christian bloke. and there are lots of churches with coffee shops, not always gloria jeans. and besides us christians like coffee too!!)

Chaos Theory
13th October 2009, 10:07 PM
I am not denouncing the existence of a higher being or another existence. That is something which as humans we can not prove or disprove. Other existences and beings have been worshipped in some way or another through cultures and civilizations since the dawn of time.

I just find it funny that in this day and age, with such freedom of information people allow themselves to be subjectively brainwashed by religions which were undeniably created as a systematic form of control, without even giving a second of thought to the situation.

todd
13th October 2009, 11:17 PM
^^ second paragraph essentially sums up how i feel about the whole thing.

Frak
14th October 2009, 11:24 AM
all their cars have the radios removed



I find this amusing, in this way. I had a student tell me that where he works they sold a VERY expensive euro car to some people that were from some odd ball religion, they had to remove the radio before the car was delivered for sale.

What I find amusing, is that people like this preach about the evils of the world, so have their radios removed so they don't have to hear it or the temptation of hearing it, one of the biggest evils they preach about is materialism, hey wait, didn't they just buy some expensive euro car!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I also find it amusing how non religious people will get violent towards religious people and will argue and yell, it's quite funny.

I hate VN commodores, but If I met someone who had one I wouldn't argue and want to punch on! Years ago at a workshop I worked at we had a mechanic who was also a minister of a church, he was actually a very nice guy, always something nice to say etc etc, another guy who worked there was just a redneck f*ckwit country douche bag, this guy would get violent towards the church guy, it was quite amusing to watch this f*ckwit in action, get over it.

I also remember walking down a street with a friend many years ago, there were some JW's door knocking, he replied "f*cking JW's", I just said "who would you rather have come down your street, JW's, who you can just say you aren't interested or criminals cruizing your street looking for houses to break into, I'm very sure the JW's aren't going to break into your house!"

He said "I never thought about it like that"

Each to there own, I have had students that are muslims and they are top blokes, so would you rather have a religious dude live next to you or some drugged out unemployed crack head?

Frak
14th October 2009, 11:30 AM
btw, each to their own, if you want to be religious I don't have a problem at all. As you get older you get more accepting.........except for homo's!(lesbo's ok, but not fat hairy lesbo's)

Ae86sam
14th October 2009, 11:36 AM
Preaching Atheists piss me off just as much as gospel preachers.

Thats the truth...

I don't beleive but its each individuals choice.. even if it is a different choice to mine..?

Live and let live..

Dave
14th October 2009, 12:34 PM
Religion is a topic that can go on forever, its also very sterotypic. Im a christian myself and ill have to agree with some of you. There are church's out there with a focus on money rather then sharing the gospel. Ive been to churchs where everyone are snobs. Most church are far from perfect which is mostly made up by the people in it. It really depends on ur personal relationship with God. Though some people can get really carried away and thats when these cults and other bs arrises..

Breaka
14th October 2009, 12:45 PM
Forget what Religion has done in the past but think of what they do on a local level.

They do some seriously good shit...plenty of things neither you nor I would really want to do. Think of Vinnies, The Red Cross, Various Soup Kitchens around the joint and plenty of other activities that happen in your own town, fair chance 99% of them are church based groups.

I think people neglect to mention or praise the good that Church organisations do. If we were all as cynical as the full blown preaching atheists around the joint who make it their lives joy to bring down religion than the world would be a far worse place (forgetting the holy wars and other bullshit going on in the middle east).

Beau
14th October 2009, 12:54 PM
Thats the truth...

I don't beleive but its each individuals choice.. even if it is a different choice to mine..?

Live and let live..

True that Homie. However....

there is more Gospel preaching going on in all walks of life! Shit our society and government structure is set up around some book that apprently someone wrote or was told to write! I dunno about you but i feel a tad upset that a childrens novel is didicating my life.

No im not a athestist.. more of a agnostic.

I dont mind ppl doing their thing and holding the hand of some supstitious fella, what i do have a problem with is what is done in the name of the "Lord".

Fact for the guy with the poor Church! The Church is the RICHEST finicial instiute in the world. Just cause your Church does not have a gold plated bible does not mean they done have a sh!t load of cash out back!

The Church also does not pay taxes, yet some charities do.. The Church also has a massive pull and infulence on our Government and Media. How is that legit?

I have a even bigger problem with Churches like this Jesus whatever one. The point or the message of religion is to help ppl.. is it not? So please tell me who sponsoring a Drift car is helping anyone but Nathan W? Dont give me that crap that it is helping boost of sport cause it aint.

I really dont understand why i need to go to some hollowed out building every Sunday to honour my Lord! i thought a good way to Honour something or someone in this sense is to be a good person, look out for your fellow man and LIVE YOUR LIFE AS YOU WISH! and not making other peoples life miserable buy promising them flames and pain!

I always wonder if half of these Churchies know where their religion comes from? England and Euroupe were not always Bible bashers. They were Paigans! They were converted to the Bible life by the Roman's sure they morphed and changed it to suit the English cause when England wanted to become a Country of their own but again they used some scary stories to assemble their society into one nation!

I say neck up and think for yourself! Fear what you want and love what you want! Thats what life is about and you need to experience it to its fullest and you cant do that thinking about your after life every Sunday!

Rice86
14th October 2009, 01:00 PM
there are just 2 types of people i hate the most in this world
racist people and black people...










just trying to break the ice

Breaka
14th October 2009, 01:07 PM
Beau you've pretty well nailed it.



No im not a athestist.. more of a agnostic.

Same here dude.



I really dont understand why i need to go to some hollowed out building every Sunday to honour my Lord! i thought a good way to Honour something or someone in this sense is to be a good person, look out for your fellow man and LIVE YOUR LIFE AS YOU WISH! and not making other peoples life miserable buy promising them flames and pain!


That's my train of thought too! I live by the 'Good Person' philosophy. I don't need the bible to set my moral or ethical guidelines. All it takes is a bit of common-sense, compassion and the rest is human nature.

I was brought up Catholic, went to Catholic Schools and what not. Our family wasn't hardcore catholic but a few of the fundamental beliefs were instilled in and I'm pretty thankful for it. I asked my 80 odd year old grandma if she was still going to church. She said to me that she doesn't have to go to church just to be a good person. I said 'How does Poppy feel about this?' she said he doesn't mind it's up to her. I thought that was awesome coming from two oldies that are meant to meet some sort of old school rigid stereotype.

Beau
14th October 2009, 01:14 PM
Thank you.. still expecting pitch forks from the other crazy christos.

The way i see it, the bible is from a time that time forgot. I do wonder how many christos have actually read the bible i mean really read it not skimmed it. Ive read it many times ( im studying my advance diploma in History and Philisophy) and i really dont understand how some of the morals and rules can be taken on so lightly..

for example if i was to follow the bible down to the wire. Then when i have a daughter im aloud to sell her into slavery for profit if i was to allow the Bible to make my life choices and be the source of my moral!

prove me wrong Christos!

driftke70
14th October 2009, 01:15 PM
say it alot but good people dont need a reason to be good.
i have pretty high morals but dont care for religion.

i agree with what beau has said, its all way too far one way or the other.
like you might say churches help out yada yada yada, but i can guarantee more is
going on from non religious organiseations.

The guy who owns the place across the road has been to our house like 5 times, they have so many people come sometimes that they actually park in our driveway and we cant leave home. He carries on and swears tells us to get farked and stuff. Hops in his porche and drives off. He tried to get approval to build the 11 million dollar building but couldnt, little while later we find one of the members of council is now a joint owner in the project and its all going ahead.

People have their reasons for believing in god, i tihnk the principle of atheists walking around preaching anti christ is a bit silly. But if your not passionate for what you believe in i think thats even worse.

Principle of giving 10% of your earnings and stuff is ridiculous.

It goes without saying that the court and legal systems have been in need of a serious overhaul for a fair while.

Dawn Fraser gets attacked in her home, guy gets charged 200 bucks. I drive at 114 in a 100 zone and get 380.

Breaka
14th October 2009, 01:24 PM
i agree with what beau has said, its all way too far one way or the other.
like you might say churches help out yada yada yada, but i can guarantee more is
going on from non religious organiseations.



Dawn Fraser gets attacked in her home, guy gets charged 200 bucks. I drive at 114 in a 100 zone and get 380.

I can name three Church Organisations in my local area off the top of my head that are doing some sort of good but not one not for prophet non religious organisation. Whether that's just due to lack of exposure or not but I'd be more likely to give to the Salvo's, Vinnies or Red Cross if they came knocking instead of something I've not heard of before.

As for the discrepencys in the law I totally agree. I get charged close to $2k in fines, licence suspension and car impounded for a less than average slide because it was 'Dangerous' but if I was to assault someone I'd be made pay considerably less. Not on topic one bit but you get that.

driftke70
14th October 2009, 01:55 PM
90% of charities are a crock of shit,
theres like 10 for every disease.

its like a modern way to get over the death of a loved one,
start a charity in their name!

Breaka
14th October 2009, 02:35 PM
say it alot but good people dont need a reason to be good.
i have pretty high morals but dont care for religion.



90% of charities are a crock of shit,
theres like 10 for every disease.

its like a modern way to get over the death of a loved one,
start a charity in their name!

Can't you see the Irony in that?

With Morals come compassion and understanding, I fail to see how you possess pretty good morals but think that only 10% of charities do some sort of good and still be cynical enough to think that forming a charity is just there to speed up someones greiving process.

driftke70
14th October 2009, 02:40 PM
breast cancer foundation, started by a group women, who just happen to now be rich for some strange reason.

"5c from every 15 cents we get to sell pink products like tim tams and tic tacs goes to paying the wage of one researcher who stands there transferring small portion of substance from one tube to another.

i have compassion, but charity starts at home, help your friends and family and people you see in your daily travels.

Beau
14th October 2009, 02:40 PM
Ok in Ryans defence here. I know what he is getting at here and I agree. I hate charities as I know most of it goes back into the Governments hands which in turn works against the Charities and the course they are working to save.

But when he says to speed up someones grieving the best way I could explain what he is saying, when someone dies, you have a funeral, a wake, you hang pictures of the them, you speak foundly of them and you make website, facebook pages for them. So in essence starting a charity in someones honour is another way to honour them!

Breaka
14th October 2009, 02:47 PM
Yeah fair points raised. And it certainly does pay to look a little deeper into most things right before you turn into a conspiracist. hahah. I'll often get pulled up for being 'cynical' also but as I'll say it's not being cynical, it's not accepting things for face value just because someone tells you so.

I like this discussion, being at home not being able to do shit all.

Beau
14th October 2009, 02:55 PM
Notice how the Christso dont want to play anymore?

Breaka
14th October 2009, 03:01 PM
I'll say this though, I was given my last rights at 3 months old and thinking back now I'm pretty thankful for that.

AJPS
14th October 2009, 03:13 PM
not mine, or any ive visited. big ones however do have alot of cash flow, but its flow out as well, not just spent on them selves.

do any of you have any actual dealings with churches at all?

and i don't mean "my mates brothers girlfriends mum is a religious freak"

or have any understanding of what the money that we give is used for?

if not, i am prepared to explain it all from my personal experiences (christian that is). either pm or msn: iamdavidhere@hotmail.com

what interests me is considering how "non-religious" this forum is, the topic of jesus tends to pop up very often!!

(for the record, Gloria jeans is owned by a christian bloke. and there are lots of churches with coffee shops, not always gloria jeans. and besides us christians like coffee too!!)

Went to church once a month or so (when staying with friends as a kid 6-10years old) even then i didnt like it as we were forced to in the morning, any protest was met with some 'you need to go to church' bs, obviously found it completely tedious and messed up my sunday mornings.

Went to an anglican school in NZ (church/mass every morning and evening) didnt mind some of the sounds the band could produce, but again had little relevance. People that I was staying with went to a church where you fall over when the demons come out (think scene in borat) Which i thought was just ridiculous. I tried to be a christian, then when i actually thought about it, i was not. Even a guy i caught the bus with gave me this pamphlet to this 'cool club he was in where they play awesome games' check the address, at a church, church based. Also my auntie used to give food to the ancestors and some other offerings thing, then one day snapped out of the 'trance' and got on with her life.

Fast forward to highshcool

Chapel every morning and a 3 christian knowledge lessons a week (compulsory even in year 12!) im sorry but im not going to be a priest so why do i need to be forced to learn about something i dont care about. God was forced down our throats. Signs in the school 'celebrating gods love'. This dude cranked this BBQ down at the skate park but he didnt skate. We were like 'sick free food, but bit sus' So we ate, as we are getting snags he starts talking about god and church, he was just recruiting for his church.

Christians have the best schools because they have the money... from the churches.

If you look through history at the wars, the cruelty of the nuns at orphanges and priests raping children, cover ups as well as all the money making, it kind of alienates people from this 'good' thing. Plus the popes really never have much good to say. The bible contradicts itself and all the strange shit ive seen + celebrities jumping to any next religion.

Sure they run charities etc, to me most of them seem like good publicity/tax breaks.

I rarely talk about religion, even amongst my friends, which is why i hate preachers, or anything its a completely personal choice. These have been my thoughts for years, just finally written down.

I can tell you now god wouldnt belong to any religion (God franchise shop) on this planet.

Breaka
14th October 2009, 03:17 PM
Christians have the best schools because they have the money... from the churches.


Or it could be to do with the fact that they are Private Schools filled with fee paying students.

Mickey H
14th October 2009, 05:25 PM
Or it could be to do with the fact that they are Private Schools filled with fee paying students.

This. I went to a Christian school, not affiliated with a church at all. I'm not getting into this debate as i haven't been a christian for several years, but if it gives people something to believe in, and encourages them to help their fellow man it can't be all that bad can it?

Breaka
14th October 2009, 05:35 PM
This. I went to a Christian school, not affiliated with a church at all. I'm not getting into this debate as i haven't been a christian for several years, but if it gives people something to believe in, and encourages them to help their fellow man it can't be all that bad can it?

Dunno what you're saying here man but I went to a Private Catholic school and I'm pretty thankful for it. We weren't mega rich or anything so all stereotypes and whatnot of pompus private school kids can be wiped out also.

Micknofx
14th October 2009, 05:39 PM
I think churches should either pay tax or have to be audited by a church equivelent ATO to account for every cent. I think the revenue they'd make back from the dodgies would easily cover the cost of setting up and running something like that.

One of the most repeated ways of raking in the dough that alot of them have done over the years involves their real estate.

It goes like this:

1) New residential development area is started up.
2) church applies for a bunch of crown land either free or at reduced rates due to tax breaks etc. to build their church on there as they claim x% of the population will go etc etc.
3) The church organisation utilises a certain percentage of given land for their buildings.
4) Once area has become built up 10 - 20 years later the church sells the unused land and pockets the cash which is alot more than the land was valued at when they applied for it.

It's the cynicism and doublespeak like that that gets to me. I'm all for good work done by groups like the salvos etc. but unfortunately it's a system as courrupt as just about any govenment - probably due to the strong ties they always have with the govenment.

breno
14th October 2009, 06:25 PM
I'm sick of these religious threads.

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/8003/1254921628847.jpg

driftke70
14th October 2009, 06:30 PM
i went to an anglican school, basically taught me reasons why religion is flawed,
like for instance anglicans are basically cathlics that went ooooh we dont want to do all the relgiousy stuff, thats too much, but we'll do a bit.

All or nothing i say, none of this wishy washy bullshit, your either there every sunday giving 10% of your pay and doing a bit for the charity yourself, or your not religious and you live your life.

Richard
15th October 2009, 05:48 AM
i seen one of thoose banners on a graveyard fence i was loling cuz it was like Jesus all abt life but the c*nts behind the fence wher all dead

ke70dave
15th October 2009, 09:11 AM
Notice how the Christso dont want to play anymore?

yer i've been trying to get onto this website the past few days but its not been working. something about database error?

so in reply to what has been said. i cant be stuffed quoting everything so hopefully i cover it all...

ok first i think you all need to try and understand the fact that once you become a christian (im goin to refer to christian as thats what i am) your whole mind set changes. and this can only be done through a step of FAITH. you cant prove some parts of Christianity right, and you cant prove parts of it wrong. it must be a step of faith. and obviously if you have not taken that step of faith you will not understand the decisions made by people that have.

and thus those that have not taken this step of faith will find it hard to understand the fact that we give out 10% money to the church (well we aim too!), and we go to to church once or maybe twice on sunday, and for me personally im in charge of the youth group which is EVERY friday night. its a commitment and a responsibility that i would not have if i had not first taken that step of faith.

another thing, i think is that alot of you are basing your opinions of Christianity on "Christians" or "the church". you need to remember that we are human as well! we make mistakes, we aren't perfect, we can be selfish etc. its our human nature. lovely thing called sin.

however if you look at the life of Jesus Christ, the greatest example, who us Christians are trying to be like each day, you will see a different Christianity.

you are all right and there are many short comings of the churches around, weather it be they spend to much money on themselves, or do non-relevant things. even in my own church there are things that have happened which aren't parallel with what the bible sais, which to me is a liittle sad as its a bad example. but once again we all humans and fall short, of what the bible sais.

in terms of christian schools, i think christian schools are possibly one of the worst possible examples of Christianity (in terms of how a non believer will see them). i went to a christian school for the later half of my schooling (yrs 11 and 12) and i could definitely see why Christianity gets a bad name from places like this. there was some good that's for sure, but i could see how it could be taken as bad.

but like i said, don't look to people for perfect examples of Christianity, look at Jesus Christ.

svenmate
15th October 2009, 09:59 AM
Dave's got it right. I too am a christian - but not religious. There is a MAJOR difference.

"Religion" is performing rituals that all normal people look at and go wtf. I mean, does God really care if you eat pork or miss one Sunday of church? Of course not. God doesn't want us to perform like monkeys for him or read the whole bible 10 times - he wants us just to have a father-son relationship with him. Thats all.

Before Jesus there was all these rituals you had to do to be able to have forgiveness and right to heaven etc. But God sent his only son to die for our sins so all we have to do is just accept this and ask for forgiveness. Not that hard really.

I grew up in a christian home but I was never 'forced' to do anything because God doesn't force us to do stuff - people do. What saddens me is that the simple message of Christianity and the gospel has been ruined by PEOPLE who think God is this big scary person who will smite you if you do anything wrong. Its just not true. Those crazy nutjobs on TV who yell from buildings "REPENT OR DIE" are not christians but rather extremists. Much like terrorists.. muslims are chilled as people, its just their hardcore religeous type that take things to the extreme.

And those weird small church organizations that don't like radios. Yeah... they have nothing to do with God. They think they do... but its all just a wierd cult with messed up people.

As for the bible.. there are two parts to it. The old testament and the new testament. The old testament shows what God and religion used to be like and the new testament is to show how things have changed due to Jesus' time here. No-one has to read the whole bible. Its not a novel. Its more like a dictionary.. you only use references for certain circumstances in your life.

My conclusion: People created bad religion. God just wants relationship. The start of this thread had absolutely nothing to do with Jesus - only crazy people thinking they're going to heaven because they think they're doing the right thing.

driftke70
15th October 2009, 04:17 PM
jesus was jewish

marvis
15th October 2009, 04:21 PM
I'm sick of these religious threads.

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/8003/1254921628847.jpg

+1.

marvis.

Chaos Theory
15th October 2009, 04:47 PM
if you believed Jesus was a saviour the least you would do is call him by his actual name "YESHUA BEN YOSEF".

yeshua was a hebrew man that spoke about the control the romans held over his people and they killed him for it.

there was nothing holy about his existence until they nailed him to a cross.

Beau
15th October 2009, 08:05 PM
further to that there is no recording of anyone called Jesus or a like (performing same acts or similar lives) in that era of time, or before or after it. The only place it is recorded is in that Bible.

Marvis and Breno.. Dont like it there is the door!

im leaving this discussion as some of the replies i have heard from the Christos are so stupid it hurts

Jman_KE70
15th October 2009, 08:29 PM
I find this amusing, in this way. I had a student tell me that where he works they sold a VERY expensive euro car to some people that were from some odd ball religion, they had to remove the radio before the car was delivered for sale.

What I find amusing, is that people like this preach about the evils of the world, so have their radios removed so they don't have to hear it or the temptation of hearing it, one of the biggest evils they preach about is materialism, hey wait, didn't they just buy some expensive euro car!!!!!!!!!!!!!


We get a couple of euros in work with radios removed the owners are complete w#$kers. They complain there $500 tyres are wearing out to quick and then tell us how they hammer their cars through the hills.

Breaka
15th October 2009, 08:30 PM
Faith, just a quick word for 'We don't have any rational explanation so we won't go there' ?

driftke70
15th October 2009, 08:32 PM
faith = selective ignorance

stuartgze
15th October 2009, 08:35 PM
I'm glad I started this thread. It's not a bad read. I can accept that people have faith and they can believe in which ever god they choose. I do however have a huge problem with not be able to get out of a train station with out some bullshit paper about jesus being stuff in my face. These poster piss me off more.

Tim.duncan
15th October 2009, 08:48 PM
are soul purpose of exsistance is to be in realation ship with God, if we do not have this then there is no point in being alive. we all chose to be seperated from God because of our sin. this saddens God so he Chose to come down to our level and become a human in the form of Jesus Christ to then take the consequence for sin which is death so that we do not have to! so that eventually we can again be in a perfect relationship with God. This is what the bible is about if you dont want to read it to find out this awsome truth then i really feel like your missing out on your lifes purpose.

i personly have been spending allot more time studing my bible because i really feel like there is so much to learn and understand about God and his love.

i tottaly understand people writing off christianity because of churches but dont write off God and his son Jesus because some times the two are not connected

Breaka
15th October 2009, 09:09 PM
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/0/6/25642.jpg

Konakid
15th October 2009, 09:16 PM
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/0/6/25642.jpg

POTY (Post of the year)

Hahahhahahahaha

todd
15th October 2009, 09:20 PM
oh. my. rofl.
would certainly get my vote ^^ hahahaha

thank you breaka.

Tim.duncan
15th October 2009, 09:30 PM
i dont understand how my post made you angry?

The Kid
15th October 2009, 09:47 PM
i dont understand how my post made you angry?

Therein lies the issue

stuartgze
15th October 2009, 10:30 PM
are soul purpose of exsistance is to be in realation ship with God, if we do not have this then there is no point in being alive. we all chose to be seperated from God because of our sin. this saddens God so he Chose to come down to our level and become a human in the form of Jesus Christ to then take the consequence for sin which is death so that we do not have to! so that eventually we can again be in a perfect relationship with God. This is what the bible is about if you dont want to read it to find out this awsome truth then i really feel like your missing out on your lifes purpose.

i personly have been spending allot more time studing my bible because i really feel like there is so much to learn and understand about God and his love.

i tottaly understand people writing off christianity because of churches but dont write off God and his son Jesus because some times the two are not connected

now that sounds a little crazy.

Frak
15th October 2009, 10:41 PM
From what I can read in these posts, it appears that churches are tax exempt and dirty rich......That's it I'm starting my own church!!! I'm going to call it 'Cult of 86 and RC45' all I do is rave on and on about AE86's and RC45's and how any other car/bike is crap because of <insert here how good AE86/RC45 is>.....oh wait a minute I already do!

actually Cult of 86 has a nice ring about it ;) think I might trademark it :)

ke70dave
15th October 2009, 10:52 PM
are soul purpose of exsistance is to be in realation ship with God, if we do not have this then there is no point in being alive. we all chose to be seperated from God because of our sin. this saddens God so he Chose to come down to our level and become a human in the form of Jesus Christ to then take the consequence for sin which is death so that we do not have to! so that eventually we can again be in a perfect relationship with God. This is what the bible is about if you dont want to read it to find out this awsome truth then i really feel like your missing out on your lifes purpose.

i personly have been spending allot more time studing my bible because i really feel like there is so much to learn and understand about God and his love.

i tottaly understand people writing off christianity because of churches but dont write off God and his son Jesus because some times the two are not connected

winnah!

good stuff mate

and i did tell the rest of you you wouldn't understand!

slide86
15th October 2009, 10:54 PM
some of you are under the illusion that SOME churches are like donald trump....they just horde huge piles of money under the seats.

this is so not true.....ok ok there are the obvious "churches" that everyone sees spending big dollars, some of these institutions can hardly be called churches.
Then there are other churches that actually struggle to open their doors of a sunday.....
I come from a christian (lutheran) family and used to regularly attend church. No one at this church was required to ever give money if they didnt wish...it was always a free will donation.
and what do you think the money was used for??? how bout:
the water
electricity
a new sound system so people can actually hear
keeping the hall up to standards so community events (not related to the church) can be held there
wheel chair access
local, national and international charities and aid organisations
putting money back into the community via community events held through the church

I can tell you right now that the ministers and pastors of the churches i know of dont get much (if any) of this money at all.....how do i know this? cause my dad is a pastor! I am a mechanic and get paid the huge sum of $17/hour. my old man doesnt get paid this and works close to DOUBLE the hours i work a week....much of which is volunteer work in the community.
at the end of the day, it actually costs more to open the doors of one of my dads parishes than they take in. not real good "business" sense, huh?

so the next time you see some "church" taking in huge sums of money or lavish spending.....just think, is that actually a church doing good for people or the community OR just using their ideas of religion to create large incomes for a select few.

i am not trying to undermine anyones opinion, just trying to shed some light on this matter from someone who actually has seen and knows what goes into trying to maintain a community church from week to week.

oh and just because i am the son of a pastor doesnt mean i am automatically a jesus boy.....just ask someone that knows me....when i tell people what my dad does EVERYONE says "you are the son of a pastor?" no one can believe it.....its not a genetic trait

stuartgze
15th October 2009, 11:05 PM
what rifle did you get slide86 it looks nice. what optics are you running

slide86
15th October 2009, 11:39 PM
lol

got a remington SPS VTR .22-250

TRIANGLE BARREL AND MUZZLE BREAK FTW

im using a nightforce 6x24 scope at the moment....im pretty sure it is anyways. ill check tomorrow, it definetly zooms to 24x tho

Tim.duncan
15th October 2009, 11:44 PM
now that sounds a little crazy.


this may very well sound crazy but if being crazy means having a God who cares about us and would do ANYTHING to save us from Sin then ill take crazy anyday!

please share your idea of the reason we exist? im very curiouse?

stuartgze
15th October 2009, 11:57 PM
this is why we are like we are now.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/origin.html

The reason why we exist I can't really help you there. It doesn't really concern me.

If you only exist to have a relationship with god why don't you just die now so you can be in heaven with god. I have always wondered why people who believe in heaven continue living.

Javal
16th October 2009, 12:00 AM
oh and just because i am the son of a pastor doesnt mean i am automatically a jesus boy.....just ask someone that knows me....when i tell people what my dad does EVERYONE says "you are the son of a pastor?" no one can believe it.....its not a genetic trait

Lies.


On another note, what slide86 has said is very valid. The church i used to attend in my youth was a small community outfit, with everything done by voluntary donation.

It's shit like hillsong and some closed-circle religious groups that give 'the church' a bad wrap.

Javal
16th October 2009, 12:04 AM
Add to that 'Televangelists'.

Scum.

slideways
16th October 2009, 12:09 AM
are soul purpose of exsistance is to be in realation ship with God, if we do not have this then there is no point in being alive.

i personly have been spending allot more time studing my bible because i really feel like there is so much to learn and understand about God and his love.


Thats a pretty big statement your making their champ!
Also have you ever considered any of the scientific arguments surrounding the origin of life/universe?



please share your idea of the reason we exist? im very curiouse?

Why have you assumed their is a 'reason' to our existance?



I have always wondered why people who believe in heaven continue living.


^^^^Sums up the ignorance of the religous, why do you guys keep living?

ke70dave
16th October 2009, 12:10 AM
If you only exist to have a relationship with god why don't you just die now so you can be in heaven with god. I have always wondered why people who believe in heaven continue living.

ahhh good question!

if us Christians all ended our earthly lives, who would be around to spread the good word?

and contrary to (what seems like) your belief, its not like being a Christian is boring. my earthly life certainly isn't boring. why would i want to end it? i have ambitions and life goals to attempt to fill. as well as many awesome people to meet and get to know.

ke70dave
16th October 2009, 12:14 AM
Thats a pretty big statement your making their champ!
Also have you ever considered any of the scientific arguments surrounding the origin of life/universe?



Why have you assumed their is a 'reason' to our exsistance?





^^^^Sums up the ignorance......

sorry couldnt not reply to this

ive studied a fair bit with engineer and the science/physics that it covers, and everything i have studied and seen points to fact that there is intelligent design in our universe.

if we are going to start the evolution vs christianitity debate, ill just say one thing. for me, to believe that we all evolved from nothing ness, and this nothing ness came from some freak bang, it takes a whole lot faith than intelligent design.

and also, im all for the big bang theory, im sure when god created the universe there was one heck of a bang!

slideways
16th October 2009, 12:17 AM
ahhh good question!

if us Christians all ended our earthly lives, who would be around to spread the good word?

and contrary to (what seems like) your belief, its not like being a Christian is boring. my earthly life certainly isn't boring. why would i want to end it? i have ambitions and life goals to attempt to fill. as well as many awesome people to meet and get to know.

This is the dumbest sequence of words I have ever bothered to read.

Why don't we all just die then? Problem solved. Then we won't be keeping you away from heaven.

Tim.duncan
16th October 2009, 12:23 AM
this is why we are like we are now.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/origin.html

The reason why we exist I can't really help you there. It doesn't really concern me.

If you only exist to have a relationship with god why don't you just die now so you can be in heaven with god. I have always wondered why people who believe in heaven continue living.

can you look me in the face an honestly tell me that you belive we have been hear for billions of years and came from monkeys??? this requires more "faith" than a belife in a creator!

of course it concerns you you exist dont you?? if you have no purpose then whats the point in living? why dont you just die now and stop existing? i have always wondered that

i belive in a heaven i belive in a everlasting life with God. But to simply die now just to go to heaven i dont think it works that way. its not about just getting to heaven its about really knowing God, really understanding what he is all about. and the more and more i understand the more i would love you to understand which is really hard to do if im dead. Plus you need to understand this planet has not always been cursed with sin it was once a garden of eden and God was in perfect relationship with mankind, so even though its pretty messed up now there is still heaps i enjoy about being hear riding waves in the ocean slashing fresh powder on top of a mountain the beautifull relationship i have with my wife, watching my dogs chase a ball. its all still Gods creation but the most important part of that creation is us. so to be blunt i dont want to die because i want to be able to share the love of God i know so well with as many people as posible!!!

slideways
16th October 2009, 12:23 AM
Intelligent design, is a theory based around the idea that if an event can't be explained or understood, then it is thought to have a design element to it.

Its a Theory, and its stupid. And its not science.

Javal
16th October 2009, 12:24 AM
can you look me in the face an honestly tell me that you belive we have been hear for billions of years and came from monkeys???

YES.



10char.

Breaka
16th October 2009, 12:27 AM
Could you look me in the face and tell me that you think that Earth was created in 6 days, the world is 10, 000 years old and Dinosaurs never existed?

slideways
16th October 2009, 12:30 AM
can you look me in the face an honestly tell me that you belive we have been hear for billions of years and came from monkeys??? this requires more "faith" than a belife in a creator!

of course it concerns you you exist dont you?? if you have no purpose then whats the point in living? why dont you just die now and stop existing? i have always wondered that

i belive in a heaven i belive in a everlasting life with God. But to simply die now just to go to heaven i dont think it works that way. its not about just getting to heaven its about really knowing God, really understanding what he is all about. and the more and more i understand the more i would love you to understand which is really hard to do if im dead. Plus you need to understand this planet has not always been cursed with sin it was once a garden of eden and God was in perfect relationship with mankind, so even though its pretty messed up now there is still heaps i enjoy about being hear riding waves in the ocean slashing fresh powder on top of a mountain the beautifull relationship i have with my wife, watching my dogs chase a ball. its all still Gods creation but the most important part of that creation is us. so to be blunt i dont want to die because i want to be able to share the love of God i know so well with as many people as posible!!!

Buddy I don't think the issue with Evolution is wether or not we evolved from primates, that is fairly irrefutable as far as scientific evidence is concerned.

Its more our abillity to comprehend ideas from what the universe was created.

And are you infering that your time on Earth is a test, intelligently designed by "God"? To filter out the weeds?

slideways
16th October 2009, 12:32 AM
And one other thing, I think only the insecure need a reason for existence. The rest just drift.

stuartgze
16th October 2009, 12:34 AM
I build a car a no one writes a thing on my thread but I start a thread on jesus and it's getting post so fast I'm 5 post behind by the time I have replied. My new thread will be Stuart's Ae86 and Jesus.

stuartgze
16th October 2009, 12:35 AM
And one other thing, I think only the insecure need a reason for existence. The rest just drift.

^^^ now that is funny.

Tim.duncan
16th October 2009, 01:02 AM
if i showed you the inside of a watch would you presume it came into exsistance just because? no you would have to say it was created because of how complex it is and the obviouse fact that it has a purpose to tell the time.

now look at the molocule, a school of fish, the human body, the solar system, the stars the creation around you and all of its complexity and tell me from a scintific point of view that it was a mistake and has no purpose?

i purpose our time on earth was intended to be perfect and a continouse real relationship with God. We then foolishly lisened to the devil and turned to sin which has seperated us from God and he is doing everything he can to get us back. EVERYTHING he posibly can, but the one thing we wont do i force us because love forced is not love at all

from the little bit i know about the "origin of spices" or the "darwain theory" for the past 6000 years everyone had belived in a God that created the earth and everything we see and he wanted to be differnt so he went out for a differnt theory. you want crazy well hear it goes. This theorys entire purpose is fulled by satan to eliminate the reason for a loving God that is a Creator. i hate to admite it but he has done a pretty good job. for the last 150 years it has been considered Stupid to belive in a Creator and that its not science. us smart science types are going to close our eyes to the fact that there is a God and say we have no purpose and we all came from sludge 10 billion years ago and oh yeah a fish turned into a lizard that turned into a Trex that had a arm fall off after a accident that turned into a monky that learnt it had a thumb and then turned into a man. or somthing along thoses lines????

driftke70
16th October 2009, 01:05 AM
can you look me straight in the face and tell me from adam and eve came black people asians inuits etc. reason the faithful dont kill themselves is suicide is a sin. who would pay the money. one thing i believe very strongly. is that if you think there is a place better than the world you already live in your pretty arrogant. not far from suicide bombing for alah

Tim.duncan
16th October 2009, 01:10 AM
Could you look me in the face and tell me that you think that Earth was created in 6 days, the world is 10, 000 years old and Dinosaurs never existed?

get in your car and go for a drive a long one out where you can see plenty of stars.

now for every star you see that is a sun just like ours and for all we know there are planets orbeting them just as our solar system works right.

well i belive in a creator so who is to say that the dude who created all of that couldent do our little planet and solar system in 6 days?

the way i see it he moved in got the job done had a day of rest and moved onto the next star and he keeps doing this. He is a creator who ever said he stoped creating?

stuartgze
16th October 2009, 01:12 AM
This is almost as much fun as moving all the bibles in a library into the fiction section.

Have a read of this and look me in the eye and tell me Noah's Ark is not made up.

http://www.skepdic.com/noahsark.html

Tim.duncan
16th October 2009, 01:13 AM
can you look me straight in the face and tell me from adam and eve came black people asians inuits etc. reason the faithful dont kill themselves is suicide is a sin. who would pay the money. one thing i believe very strongly. is that if you think there is a place better than the world you already live in your pretty arrogant. not far from suicide bombing for alah

dude are you happy with the world we live in?? i dont think is would be to hard to imagine somthing better! this was once a better place its sin that has crushed it not God.

Breaka
16th October 2009, 01:16 AM
if i showed you the inside of a watch would you presume it came into exsistance just because? no you would have to say it was created because of how complex it is and the obviouse fact that it has a purpose to tell the time.

now look at the molocule, a school of fish, the human body, the solar system, the stars the creation around you and all of its complexity and tell me from a scintific point of view that it was a mistake and has no purpose?

i purpose our time on earth was intended to be perfect and a continouse real relationship with God. We then foolishly lisened to the devil and turned to sin which has seperated us from God and he is doing everything he can to get us back. EVERYTHING he posibly can, but the one thing we wont do i force us because love forced is not love at all

from the little bit i know about the "origin of spices" or the "darwain theory" for the past 6000 years everyone had belived in a God that created the earth and everything we see and he wanted to be differnt so he went out for a differnt theory. you want crazy well hear it goes. This theorys entire purpose is fulled by satan to eliminate the reason for a loving God that is a Creator. i hate to admite it but he has done a pretty good job. for the last 150 years it has been considered Stupid to belive in a Creator and that its not science. us smart science types are going to close our eyes to the fact that there is a God and say we have no purpose and we all came from sludge 10 billion years ago and oh yeah a fish turned into a lizard that turned into a Trex that had a arm fall off after a accident that turned into a monky that learnt it had a thumb and then turned into a man. or somthing along thoses lines????

I believe that there is a reason as to why I exist, do I know the reason? Not yet. The main reason I actually believe that their is purpose for my existance is that well, I want to and it makes me feel alot better than thinking I'm here the same reason the bacteria in a piece of shit is here - that I'm only here to be part of the my environments symbiosis. To believe we're here for a reason is my human nature kicking it in order to comfort.

As for scientific theories of our creation being part of Satan's plan to distract us from believing that God was the creator of the Universe...Fucking please, stop. If it is so, why are these scientists put on Earth in the first place? Shouldn't God have the power to prevent this? To test those who don't posses the faith to believe in God? If that's the case, I don't want to believe in that type of God, I'll side with Satan.

And you're rather un-educated guess on what Evolution is about, that's plain ignorance; you haven't even tried to understand it.

Tim.duncan
16th October 2009, 01:28 AM
we could discuss many topics for and against God, weather the bible is true or not ect ect but you need to understand God is not out to tell you "YOU MUST BELIVE THIS" and i will allow these scientest to put you off track just to see if you faithfull to me.

there is a huge story that you and me are cought up in basically Satan question God and said "why are you the boss i can do a better job than you" God chose for him to go his own way because he is not a God who will just say "you must love me" so satan went off and he was able to decive 1/3 of the angels and he went on his marry way trying to decive Gods creation to belive he could do a better job than God. Now he got to planet earth and convinced Man to belive him. God now banished Satan to stay on earth and play out this little rebelion once and for all. so Satan is trying his hardest to covince everyone that he is better. this is where Jesus comes in we are seperated from God now because of our choices and in a way he has drawn away from the earth. But first he came down in a human form and died for us taking the punishment of sin for you and me and everybody else so that we could have a conection with him again. i dont know about you but i am not even close to being worthy of gods presents yet he still wants me in it. this is all quite allot but at the end of the day you have an enemy that hates you and its not God

todd
16th October 2009, 01:28 AM
existential nihilism.

read about it.

Breaka
16th October 2009, 01:47 AM
Right Tim, so if God was to kill someone in the bible would that be bad?
If Satan was to NOT kill someone in the bilbe that would be good, right?

driftke70
16th October 2009, 01:50 AM
tim duncan im sorry to say it but that is some of the most uneducated crap ive ever read.

Its pretty hypocritical to sit there and say that you dont understand evolution and that monkeys figured out how to use a thumb and crap like that, and thn your happy to accept that man learned how to make a computer and sit there and proceed to write such dribble.

Ive looked pretty heavily into 90% of christianity, read the bible and crap like that, I feel I can make a decision based on my knowledge, along with the fact that I have been studying chemistry and biology etc for a pretty long time. Seems like you havnt even passed grade 8 maths never mind looked into the theory behind evolution,

You would be mad not to believe in it, I have seen changes in 5 generation of rats, and thats 4 years, never mind billions of years.

driftke70
16th October 2009, 01:55 AM
also i think I would rather hang with satan, he seems to be the bigger man in this whole situation, never ragging on god or anything, keeps to himself, doesn't write books telling me stupid stories with such contradictory morals. Thats half the problme, there are so many stupidf stories in the bible, that religous people can pick and choose which ones they want to remember and let them cancel each other out and stuff. It doesn't take 5500 pages to tell people to be good, the rest is irrelevent fictional and serves no purpose. Even if god and heaven did exist, he is all forgiving and youd have to do something pretty ducked to not get into heaven, if you live your life and arnt religious but are still a decent person your going to get in anyways.

Breaka
16th October 2009, 02:15 AM
Read this http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/rook_hawkins/biblical_errancy/3582

Basically some dude has trawled the scriptures of the bible making count of the numbers of people that God has been said to have killed vs. Satan.

Cut a long story short the figures look something like this
God: 2,270,365+
Satan: (fuck, site aint loading properly but I'm pretty sure it was 1.)



You would be mad not to believe in it, I have seen changes in 5 generation of rats, and thats 4 years, never mind billions of years.

Red Bellied Black Snakes are a prime example that the processes evolution are still in affect. Studies in my local area have been done on the species of snake for a number of years recording their length and other physical features and other characteristics. Frogs are their main source of diet and since the introduction of cane toads to Aus there have been a large reduction in their numbers as they often mistake the cane toad as a frog, eat the bastard and then die. But, whilst still recording the same data they have now found that the snake's mouths have reduced in size to prevent them fromt eating the larger toad's and concerntrate on smaller frogs instead. Cane Toad have been in my local area for around sixty years....go figure.

Konakid
16th October 2009, 02:47 AM
Tim. Duncan, ##### please:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_EXqdJ4L7I

GAKI86
16th October 2009, 04:01 AM
http://pics.blameitonthevoices.com/092009/small_one%20legged%20snake.jpg

OH HAI, I HAZ FORGOT 2 EVOLVZ LAWLZ!!!!111

todd
16th October 2009, 04:07 AM
hahahaha i swear the lols on the site are getting better and better.

GAKI86
16th October 2009, 04:50 AM
on the other news:

today i was talking to my co worker who happen to be a devout orthodox xtian from assyria (now known as iraq and some other portions of neighboring countries), he couldnt believe me that im a big time no believer on religion and such. he asked me why dont i, so i mentioned the most obvious, that where did the most influential religions of today came from (apart from religions from asia eg buddhism taoism shinto etc ).. he did not know which surprised me, well not really.. hehe so i told him it all came from a place called jerusalem and mentioned the 3: Xtianity, iSlam (more leik iBoom get it?) and Jewdai$m and i asked him what had these 3 been doing to each other in the past 100 years have there been any love and peace?? he dissapointedly said no... but he added on that its all about tolerance and forgiving, i told him yes thats very true but you can also do that without a team color.. youre human and capable of doing something like that as well as capable of doing wrong deeds which i can compare that easily to pedo priests and abusive nuns.. so its quite pointless really its nothing but a stamp label on your head waiting to be judged upon by other zealots...

love that banner lol!!

Tim.duncan
16th October 2009, 08:00 AM
wow there is no need to get nasty

ok if you would like to talk evolution vs creation i competly agree that you will have seen changes in the rats and the snakes darwin also recorded this same obsevation with the finches in his book. he looked into how on the different islands there was different types of food so the birds had formed differnt types of beaks to be able to get into tight places on one island or have a bigger beake to be able to eat larger food on another island. i look at this as adaption every living thing has to do it, just look at the differnt humans and they way our bodies have adapted to our suroundings. This thing i dont get is the finch is still a bird, the snake is still a snake, the rat is still a rat sure they adapt but evolving into somthing else? i just cant belive that from a logical point of view

if everything is evolving where is the proof in the fossile record? if all these changes have been happening why dont we see everystep in the fossils? if you are to look at the fossils with an open mind you will see that slight changes accour (adaption) but full fleed changes from one spices to another?? i just dont see it

please people im not a stupid closed minded person im just following what seems to be the most aparent truth and in my short life of 24 years the fact that there is a Creator God who loves us is the most accurate.

hey this is all about opinion right? this is mine and i fully belive it, it changes how i live my life

Tim.duncan
16th October 2009, 08:14 AM
Tim. Duncan, ##### please:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_EXqdJ4L7I

ha ha yeah ok it was funny but if you were to take the time and study all that info it makes perfect sense i think he missed to point a few times but on a whole he did pretty good

GAKI86
16th October 2009, 08:54 AM
i can see where youre getting champ.. a bird would still be a bird, a fish would still be a fish, a rat would still be a rat... what about monotremes?? surely i dont think theyre onto adapting... i mean what were they thinking?? have a face of a bird Lay eggs like a fish while walking around on 4s bieng warm bloodied and serve its young with milk from a fully working mammary glands like a rat....hmmmmm

tim you need to read more nat geo stuff and among other shit than religion books.. one day you will wake up.... neo

dave2221
16th October 2009, 09:07 AM
there is no spoon

ThatsHowWeRoll
16th October 2009, 10:24 AM
Interesting read....

I am a firm christian.

Once you experience God's grace and love and have an encounter with the living God it will blow you away! The bible refers to jesus and his love as flowing, living water. Just like how we can't live without water, i cant live life without the living water. When i see the miracles of healing and nature i can't help but be amazed. I don't live for church, i live for the son, the father and the holy spirit.

Im just gonna put a few bible verses out there for some thought on some of the topics.

Revelations 3:16
So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.

I believe we are judge by what we are called to do, not we do. Some churchs are blessed with finance so they can go into the business sectors as well as the media etc. Others are called to reach the one. Be a sheperd to the lost so to speak. And often break even finacially. It's is up to the pastor to seek and pray to find out what God wants them to do.

2 Corinthians 8:12

If the willingness is there, the gift is acceptable according to what one has, not according to what he does not have

The whole give 10% all the time was very much an old testament thing. The new testement does not once refer to a set amount to give. Rather give with a willing heart because God loves a cheerful giver. And at the end of the day God has provided us everything we have so i don't have an issue with giving it back to him.


There is a massive difference between the Church and Jesus. It says to love your wife like jesus loves the church. My interpretation of this is that yeah sometimes your wife/family annoy the crap out of you and wrongs you beyond forgiviness...but if you love like Jesus does then you are always there with open arms of grace and love.

Yes the church makes many many mistakes. But who doesn't. It's human nature to sin and be selfish. But thats why Jesus died for us!!!!

Anyway if you have any serious questions feel free to PM me....

slideways
16th October 2009, 10:45 AM
Jesus was a black, jewish homosexual!!

driftke70
16th October 2009, 10:53 AM
Jesus's death wasn't a choice. Dont talk about old and new testments they are almost the same. Jesus gets betrayed my judas one of the diciples. Joseph gets betrayed by judah one of his 12 brothers.
Tim duncan it was all the one island. As said occurs over millions and millions of years. Monotremes evolved from birds. Feathers turned into fur and quills.

Easiest thing to see is sharks. More evolved they are the more gill slits. Its obvious sting rays evolved from early sharks. Most of the time its environmental factors. Trees get more dense a bird gets smaller and more nimble. Ocean gets colder dolphin gets bigger and more fat.

shift_rook
16th October 2009, 11:51 AM
i believe in the dori god, keiichi tsuchiya, can i get an amen?

Tim.duncan
16th October 2009, 12:30 PM
tim you need to read more nat geo stuff and among other shit than religion books..

i cant belive evolution im sorry the creation speaks for its self it is clear we are designed and created eveything works to perfectly together to be a mistake.

we dont sit around discussing weather a 4age was created and designed its just plain obviouse that it is, how much more complex is a living thing? why when something is organic its up for debate weather we have a reason for exsisting?

complexity explains a creator, having a creator explains there must be a purpose, that puspose "to love God because he first loved us"

this is not something i strugle with i 100% belive in a creator so i now put my efforts into understanding other things (read more religiouse books)

shift_rook
16th October 2009, 12:33 PM
as if we have a purpose, why are we higher than an engine, we just run off electric signals, we're made up of different atoms than metal, which allows us to think, so why should we have any more purpose than a piece of metal

todd
16th October 2009, 12:34 PM
we dont sit around discussing weather a 4age was created and designed its just plain obviouse that it is, how much more complex is a living thing?

umm, by my accounts, the human body is roughly 1 billion times more intricate and complex than a 4age.
you seriously cant expect what you said to be true?....

slideways
16th October 2009, 12:37 PM
i cant belive evolution im sorry the creation speaks for its self it is clear we are designed and created eveything works to perfectly together to be a mistake.


No one ever said the universe was a mistake.

This shows how manipulative your stupid fucking religon is. So fucking hypocritical at every oppurtunity.

Christianity is fast becoming a minority for this exact kind hypocrasy.

Are you able to comprehend how stupid the things you say are?

slideways
16th October 2009, 12:51 PM
Also Tim,

Aren't you meant to 'Love Thy Neighbour' Or some Bullshit?


Then Whats your signature about?

Fucking Hypocrit!

Ae86sam
16th October 2009, 01:07 PM
Lolz.. I love checking this thread..

Tim.Duncan - I don't beleive anything like what you think and i have looked into it all quite a bit. But i don't want you to think like i do? I'm happy and lead a good life without god in it, is that such a bad thing.? You need to accept that we're not stupid for beleiveing what we beleive and i accept that your not stupid for beleiveing what you beleive.

No need for attacks. Just accept that everyone has a different outlook on life and thats that..?

Course_Out
16th October 2009, 01:19 PM
Oh wow, what a thread!

Tim, although I have to say I heartily disagree with your beliefs I accept that they are yours and you may believe what you like. This is the joy of living in Australia, you have that right. You would do well to remember that...

Also, although I can see a few rather fiercely atheist people here (again, that's your right, etc etc) I think you will find that the majority of the dislike for religion comes from the way the major religions, as well as a number of the new, shiny, rather wealthy ones, have gone about doing things.

In my 13 years of Catholic schooling I unknowingly met 3 pedophiles. I was told I was going to hell on a number of occasions. All sorts of bad shit got covered up. So I don't go to church. And a lot of other people don't either.

I believe there is a God, but I dare say He'd distance himself from pretty much every Christian religion going at the moment

Micknofx
16th October 2009, 01:21 PM
Also Tim,

Aren't you meant to 'Love Thy Neighbour' Or some Bullshit?


Then Whats your signature about?

Fucking Hypocrit!

Nah thats in the bible.

"If I ever meet Murphy I"m going to hurt him"

Joseph - 11:23

Beau
16th October 2009, 01:23 PM
if everything is evolving where is the proof in the fossile record? if all these changes have been happening why dont we see everystep in the fossils? if you are to look at the fossils with an open mind you will see that slight changes accour (adaption) but full fleed changes from one spices to another?? i just dont see it

please people im not a stupid closed minded person im just following what seems to be the most aparent truth and in my short life of 24 years the fact that there is a Creator God who loves us is the most accurate.


Ok i know i said i was going to back out of this one. But no one pointed this out and it is the biggest argument you christos bust out in the creation VS Evolution debate.

So you say where is the proof of evolution? Ever heard of a Museum? if you want us to piece together every stage of our evolution do mind grabbing a shovel to give us a hand in tearing up the earth surface so we can prove to you guys?

And on that note, where is your proof everything in the bible happened? Ohh thats right your proof is this thing that is 5 letters long was deprived from a acient language called FAITH.

Here i'll fight your battle to a degree here.

In saying that there was a "big flood" around the time the bible stated it was not as dramatic as the bible puts it, it was merly a King who jump on a large boat when some floods came and travelled down the river for a couple 100 miles until the water slowed. So that part is true but slightly exgated. (very brief telling on my part of the historical facts)

Now lets talk about the story of the Red Sea and the Jews and so on. Please show me in the Eygptian history books where it states they were defeated by the Jewish slaves and all this happened. And dont give me the same excuse ive heard from a Christian Historian (such a contridiction those two words) that the Eygptians were too proud to document such a defeat cause thats BULL! The Eygptians were a very advanced race and they documented EVERYTHING! They even recorder there last days of free Eygpt when Cesar took over Eygpt.. Remember Cleoptra?

On the big bang theory etc, what if a Entinty (God) did create the big bang? Think about it for a moment if you were to create something as complex as life would you start at the finished product or would you light a spark and allow it to evolve? To say that we as Humans are to complex to be just a accident is so self centre and close minded it scares me of the future generations out come. If we were created why the fuck arent we comic book characters? Why dont we have sin and if there is a Satan why was he bitch slapped back to his toy room?

Our Evolution moved so fast when we climbed down from the trees and really seemed to slow when we started to let invisble lives and promises of internal life control our thoughts and lives. Sure we have evolved in the technology area but we have only evolved in our need to preach our beliefs and so we have had wars to bestowe it on the next town and this basically ment more need for better weaponary then a spear and a sword,for example such inventions that were originally used for military use, we now use in our day to day life such as what we are using right now.... the INTERNET.

I can go all day but i think a few might just keep getting upset so i will close with this.

When UN was started do you know what their main goal and objective is? To rid the world of religion as it is the source of evil in this world.

I dunno about you but if i was God i would be sicken by the way religions have been started in thy name and dreadful crimes, murders, rapes and wars have been done in Thy NAME!

And please remember until a couple of centuries ago it was blashpmey to believe the world was round and that there was such a thing as a solar system and universe.

breno
16th October 2009, 01:28 PM
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/0/6/25642.jpg

i loled

breno
16th October 2009, 01:42 PM
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/9310/1235547899247copy.jpg

driftke70
16th October 2009, 01:45 PM
2 Kings 2:23-24 (New International Version)
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!"

He turned around, and looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord.

Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.


Proverbs 29:20 (New Living Translation)
There is more hope for a fool than for someone who speaks without thinking.

Proverbs 31:6 (New International Version)
As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly.


Proverbs 27:14 (New International Version)
If a man loudly blesses his neighbor early in the morning, it will be taken as a curse.


Zechariah 6:7 (New International Version)
When the powerful horses went out, they were straining to go throughout the earth. And he said, "Go throughout the earth!" So they went throughout the earth.

Exodus 35:1-3 (New International Version)
Moses assembled the whole Israelite community and said to them, "These are the things the LORD has commanded you to do: For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death. Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day."


"It is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in man." - Psalm 118:8

http://cdn-www.cracked.com/articleimages/wong/badass4.jpg

ke70dave
16th October 2009, 01:50 PM
On the big bang theory etc, what if a Entinty (God) did create the big bang? Think about it for a moment if you were to create something as complex as life would you start at the finished product or would you light a spark and allow it to evolve? To say that we as Humans are to complex to be just a accident is so self centre and close minded it scares me of the future generations out come. If we were created why the fuck arent we comic book characters? Why dont we have sin and if there is a Satan why was he bitch slapped back to his toy room?



just in reply to this part of your post beau.

in terms of "why arent we all robots". that is a very good logical question. but imagine for a second that you have a son/daughter (maybe you do, im not sure). now imagine that you had the ability to completely control how they were created.

now would you rather they loved you by choice, or loved you because they have no option? if every time they said "i love you" to you, you knew it was only because it was pre-programmed into their brain, do you think that would be good?

what about if you gave them the choice do to whatever they wanted, "free will" as it were. And then of all the things they could choose to do, they decided to say "i love you" to you, and actually loved you for who you were, despite all the other things they could be doing. wouldn't that be better?

its the same with god, sure he hates sin and hates the fact that sin is in this world. and it saddens him greatly when he sees his creation (us) going against him. but when we CHOOSE to follow him and CHOOSE do to his will because he is our creator. i believe that although gods creation (us) do go against him (i do as well quite often!) i believe that it is the times when we CHOOSE to do the right thing, it makes the times when we don't worth persisting with, rather than the "robot" scenario.

Thank god (literally) that he is patient because i stuff up alot! but it is by his grace that he accepts me when i choose to live his way!

and as for the rest of your post, to be honest i cant comment as im not that up on the historic side of things. and your right its about FAITH. but that's cool with me.

ps. im sorry its not worded that good. i have had way to much coffee and i have an exam in 65mins!

shift_rook
16th October 2009, 02:01 PM
i wish i was an intellectual so i could have some hectic comment to help this, what i've taken from this is, don't fuck with bears, people take forums way to seriously, i hoped i helped someone find themself

Beau
16th October 2009, 02:07 PM
just in reply to this part of your post beau.

in terms of "why arent we all robots". that is a very good logical question. but imagine for a second that you have a son/daughter (maybe you do, im not sure). now imagine that you had the ability to completely control how they were created. !


Excellent reply and I do agree with that, HOWEVER that’s not what i was refering to at all. I was merely speaking about evolution and the whole Idea that we were ‘created’ and created equally (cause we aint I was born with a illness and my brother wasn’t). I was not refering to our relationship with said Entity.

And to retort on your examples of Gods forgiveness and compassion and so on. How do you know for sure that he feels this way? Im not trying to be rude here but other then Faith how do you know. Your priest? The Bible? Family? Friends? My point is how do you know how he feels? How do you know there is only one lord? How do you know that Zesus and the rest of the Gods of Olympus are not looking down on us laughing their asses off?

Yes a bit far fetch but what my real point is what if forgiveness comes from ones self? What if we are our own God and Devil? We are the masters our own Universe and to blame some guy in a red suit or send thanks to another on a white cloud seems like you don’t want to take ownership for your own actions, thoughts and feelings? I hear a lot of you say “when you embrace God in your lives it’s the most wonderful thing in the world” but have you ever tried to embrace your own inner self (im not talking about masturbation) and think and act for yourself, I bet the feeling is amazing I don’t see it to be evil more of a way to take the blame off any Entity above us.

Beau
16th October 2009, 02:10 PM
i wish i was an intellectual

Dont worry we all wish you were too

shift_rook
16th October 2009, 02:14 PM
thanks beau

ke70dave
16th October 2009, 02:50 PM
im not sure how to multi quote someone, but ill do my best!

Excellent reply and I do agree with that, HOWEVER that’s not what i was refering to at all. I was merely speaking about evolution and the whole Idea that we were ‘created’ and created equally (cause we aint I was born with a illness and my brother wasn’t). I was not refering to our relationship with said Entity.


sorry i misunderstood what you were trying to say there, i guess thats the joys of text based communication. in terms of being created equally, we were created equally as humns, in the fact that we were created in the image of god. ie we can think, we have a soul etc. in terms of things like diseases/disabilities. this is where the fact that we have sin in our world comes into play. the world isnt perfect anymore, and thus imperfect things happen. to be completely honest this is one of the things that i struggle with personally. especially since i have no real major medical problems at all. now im not familiar with your situation at all. but your right, why do you have a medial illness and your brother and me dont? i too do not understand. but i just have to trust god that hes got it all under control. which as of course your thinking is much easier for me to say than someone that cant walk or talk.

And to retort on your examples of Gods forgiveness and compassion and so on. How do you know for sure that he feels this way? Im not trying to be rude here but other then Faith how do you know. Your priest? The Bible? Family? Friends? My point is how do you know how he feels? How do you know there is only one lord? How do you know that Zesus and the rest of the Gods of Olympus are not looking down on us laughing their asses off?

well in terms of this i guess it all comes down to what you belive is true. i believe the bible is true. i believe that there is enough proof OUTSIDE the bible for me to belive that the bible is true. and thus i belive the entire thing is true. i am yet to come across anything that can prove me otherwise. and i have looked, i enjoy reading about other stuff. but it just doesn't add up.

in terms of how it feels to be in a relationship with god? it cant be explained. its like complete peace. i know that i am not an accident, i have purpose in life. it cannot really be explained im afraid. though im happy to share more experiences with you!

Yes a bit far fetch but what my real point is what if forgiveness comes from ones self? What if we are our own God and Devil? We are the masters our own Universe and to blame some guy in a red suit or send thanks to another on a white cloud seems like you don’t want to take ownership for your own actions, thoughts and feelings? I hear a lot of you say “when you embrace God in your lives it’s the most wonderful thing in the world” but have you ever tried to embrace your own inner self (im not talking about masturbation) and think and act for yourself, I bet the feeling is amazing I don’t see it to be evil more of a way to take the blame off any Entity above us.

In short, i dont think i could worship myself, as i know that i am not perfect, i do wrong against others. why woudl i want to embrace myself?

i dont want to sound like im putting myself down, as im not. i just know where i stand in this universe. luckily God sees me as his pride and joy creation. so i think being a pride and joy of the creator of the universe is a little more exciting than trying to think of my self as a god!

im not exactly sure if ive explained what im trying to say completely. i hope so.

now im off to an exam.

Tim.duncan
16th October 2009, 02:52 PM
Lolz.. I love checking this thread..

Tim.Duncan - I don't beleive anything like what you think and i have looked into it all quite a bit. But i don't want you to think like i do? I'm happy and lead a good life without god in it, is that such a bad thing.? You need to accept that we're not stupid for beleiveing what we beleive and i accept that your not stupid for beleiveing what you beleive.

No need for attacks. Just accept that everyone has a different outlook on life and thats that..?

i apolagize if it seems i am attacking anyone, i am just expresing what i belive and i really feel like it is true and everyone would benifite from having a quick think about.

The fact that christions get labled "stupid" "un educated" i think is a bit unfair im just trying to voice that we are not all "reeds swaying in the wind" going be every word a preacher says beliving evey word. some of us look hard and long at what we belive and i would say its a very educated belife

im also sorry if my siginature offends you. but the fact that "Murphy" is a concept? well i cant hurt a concept. i will change it if you really think im a hypocrite if murphy really exsisted and it was his fault that every time i drop a bolt it rolls right under a bench which is dark and smelly and i have to lie on the floor to scab it out, or when ever its cold the spanner WILL slip off the bolt and a scrap my knuckles on the nearest sharp object. i wont lie to you i would have to question him on his actions but i would not hurt him

some how "if i ever meet murphy i will have to question him on his actions" just doesent have the same ring

Ae86sam
16th October 2009, 03:23 PM
i apolagize if it seems i am attacking anyone, i am just expresing what i belive and i really feel like it is true and everyone would benifite from having a quick think about.

The fact that christions get labled "stupid" "un educated" i think is a bit unfair im just trying to voice that we are not all "reeds swaying in the wind" going be every word a preacher says beliving evey word. some of us look hard and long at what we belive and i would say its a very educated belife

im also sorry if my siginature offends you. but the fact that "Murphy" is a concept? well i cant hurt a concept. i will change it if you really think im a hypocrite if murphy really exsisted and it was his fault that every time i drop a bolt it rolls right under a bench which is dark and smelly and i have to lie on the floor to scab it out, or when ever its cold the spanner WILL slip off the bolt and a scrap my knuckles on the nearest sharp object. i wont lie to you i would have to question him on his actions but i would not hurt him

some how "if i ever meet murphy i will have to question him on his actions" just doesent have the same ring

What i ment is get over it.. :) You've made your point.. the more you fight it the worse it gets? You attack them about evolution and they attack you about creationism.. Everyone knows both sides of the story and should just accept it..

Be the bigger man.. or should i say Turn the Other cheek. ;)

driftke70
16th October 2009, 04:18 PM
if you think about it dave, gods not giving you a choice to love him if your a christian, he is using the whole sin thing and the ever forgiveness. He is saying "loving me is the only answer"

when he should be saying " be a good person, dont answer to me, answer to your own morals, just make sure they are good morals"

stuartgze
16th October 2009, 04:24 PM
Am I going to hell for starting this thread.

driftke70
16th October 2009, 05:17 PM
but the devil does all the fun things, whats to worry about?

Tim.duncan
16th October 2009, 05:23 PM
What i ment is get over it.. :) You've made your point.. the more you fight it the worse it gets? You attack them about evolution and they attack you about creationism.. Everyone knows both sides of the story and should just accept it..

Be the bigger man.. or should i say Turn the Other cheek. ;)

yeah fair call, please dont think anything i say is an attack nothing i type has and spite behind it

i have watched a dvd called the "God delusion debate" with richard dawkins and a really switched on christian theologin. exelent watch if any one is intrested, very well put together and fair points from both parties

ke70dave
16th October 2009, 05:28 PM
if you think about it dave, gods not giving you a choice to love him if your a christian, he is using the whole sin thing and the ever forgiveness. He is saying "loving me is the only answer"

when he should be saying " be a good person, dont answer to me, answer to your own morals, just make sure they are good morals"

hmmm....more...."you were designed to live this way, and thus this way is the best"

todd
16th October 2009, 07:43 PM
the same as 'you were pre-programmed to live this way, and thus this way is the best?'

Beau
16th October 2009, 09:03 PM
as always my points have been ignored as they can not be disproven!

I wish i could find a real debate!

Konakid
16th October 2009, 09:34 PM
how about a maths debate?

slide86
16th October 2009, 09:55 PM
1+1 = a window

GAKI86
16th October 2009, 11:11 PM
how about transformers and god debate??

Since God created man, and man created the Transformers, the Transformers are like a gift from God, Tim!!!!

or the other side of things

Ahmed, if God is the creator of all things then why does he make bombs that lands on our houses!!!!

fantapants
16th October 2009, 11:26 PM
wow... slideways and tim really set the bar pretty high for uneducated comments :)

any christian who feels that they are unable to believe in science is a very lazy christian. There is nothing in the bible that says evolution isnt accurate, that the big bang isnt how it happened, that there isnt inteligent life outside the planet earth.

Religious dogma and a goal of keeping the masses undereducated has formed these incorrect perceptions within the christian movement.

My wife is a very proud and strong minded christian. I am a very proud and strong minded questioner :) We disagree on many things but her ability to have inteligent and well structured arguments places her leaps and bounds ahead of people who badger you with simple single layered arguments.

people should enjoy and celebrate their beliefs. But they should never fear to challenge them from. This can only lead to stregnth or clarity. There are many examples of courage in this thread, but many more examples of apathy being the true downfall of humanity.

yours in figuring shit out :)

skizzamods
16th October 2009, 11:59 PM
before i start, i know this may be somewhat different to what has been said abut scientists researching the creation of earth etc, and how God is 'testing' us to see if we beleive what they say, and them putting us off track but i see it as the same principal.. as i take it as saying scientists have been put on earth to test people.

well then, if god is the creator, is the research scientists conduct in search of medicines etc, just another test?, are scientists again putting us off track? has god strategically hidden these medicines humans to discover? where would we be without some of these discoveries? how many lives have they saved.. an example being the discovery and development of penicillin

Beau
17th October 2009, 12:17 AM
penicillin

those on level four of Doom pre 1990 will know that Penicillin Kills Beau!

skizzamods
17th October 2009, 12:20 AM
those on level four of Doom pre 1990 will know that Penicillin Kills Beau!

lol, please explain??

Beau
17th October 2009, 12:32 AM
lol, please explain??

check the bible it has all the answers

driftke70
17th October 2009, 12:54 AM
to questions that havn't needed to be asked for 1999 years.

breno
17th October 2009, 12:58 AM
ask me about bird law, i could debate about that.

todd
17th October 2009, 12:58 AM
rocket launcher ftw
http://www.ibiblio.org/GameBytes/issue20/flooks/doom21.gif

driftke70
17th October 2009, 01:52 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

Chaos Theory
17th October 2009, 02:13 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYW2xXxFVtU&feature=related
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYW2xXxFVtU&feature=related)

RELIGULOUS (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3791007322683758535#)

driftke70
17th October 2009, 03:08 AM
religulous is great

ThatsHowWeRoll
17th October 2009, 09:55 AM
I wanna encourage everyone to read a little deeper into the Bible.

Just one example of it's awesomeness.....

Ezekiel i think it was prophesied that the town of Tyre would be destroyed and thrown into the sea....in the bible the town was destroyed!...but not thrown into the sea:O....

But!...approx 200 years after this prophecy, Alexander the Great came along and again destroyed this city called Tyre...the people of the city took refuge on a near by island...so Alexander demolished the city and attempted built a floating bridge to the island!...and in turn fullfilling the prophecy God gave to ezekiel! God works in ways you can't even imagine. He is not bound by time at all.

As far as evolution goes there are more than enough gaps in it to cause serious doubt. The are so many references in the bible of scientific like things. It is the only religious book to point out the world is round, science says the universe is always stretching and the bible likens creation to the blankets of heaven being layed down and the stretched!..There was a man in the bible that was trying to breedspotted and striped animals by holding sticks in front of it's eyes etc...God visited him in a dream and showed him two different animals mateing...this further explains Gods understanding and purpose of genetics and DNA etc...and if we did evolve from apes...why are there still monkeys around??..i could go on for hours...

there are more than 100 other accounts writen of Jesus when he was on earth. From a mixture of christian and non-christian backgrounds. And they all accuratley discribe the miracles and teachings of Jesus. And Jesus has split time in HALF!..

So i seriously encourage you to read a bit deeper and not from a critical point of view....soften your hearts a little bit....

I know personally a man of god that was once quite a broken man....he left home when he was 15 and was pretty messed up. In his early 20's he sat on his bed with a gun in his hand and he gave God 10 seconds to show up...the 10 seconds past and nothing happened....he put the gun to his head and pulled the trigger....he woke up a week later and he was still laying on his bed...not a mark on him....he now tavels around south america leading revivals for Christ...

When miracles like this occur i can't help but be amazed!

Joshie_Mcslide
17th October 2009, 10:28 AM
I come from a Family where my mums side are born again christians and my dads side are chatholic.......and when I left home I had Jahova's come around to my place for about 6 mounths or so,Talking there crap to me(I find them amusing).......I used to go to church on sundays,(both of em)

I feel that Ive taken enough from each of them and come up with my own pesonal oppinions!

I just go about my life doing what I feel is Moraly rite and yeah.....Just live!
Who evers waiting at the end can judge me and we'll take it from there!

Lifes too short to stress out about if shits true or who's judging what!
I say if satan wants to tempt me,he'd better do a fucking good job of it!!
hahaha

Josh

driftke70
17th October 2009, 01:43 PM
i know a guy who thinks acid saved his life

Joshie_Mcslide
17th October 2009, 02:19 PM
i know a guy who thinks acid saved his life

It probably did!!
I don't doubt it at all..........that kind of shit can really alter your perception of things!!

hahaha!

Shit can also kill you so yeah.......

Vance
17th October 2009, 04:50 PM
some VERY average looking girl gave me a flyer whilst i was walking through the mall today (buying new work boots). i took it not to be rude.

it was on some church in the local area having some guy from the same brand of church but from a different country.

some woman walking past saw me reading it and started ranting and raving about how that church is wrong blah blah blah and i was just thinking "i only took this thing not to be rude. taking a flyer isnt going to make me join their brand of church."

the woman wouldnt shut up or leave me alone. i must have walked about 50m with her ranting at me without me saying anything until a cancer council girl asker her if she wanted to talk about cancer council. at this point the ranting woman got distracted and i got away.

driftke70
17th October 2009, 05:25 PM
that'll learn ya

Frak
17th October 2009, 06:14 PM
wow, this thread is still going on!

An I have no applications for The cult of 86.....what's wrong?

Chaos Theory
17th October 2009, 06:27 PM
can we burn commodores in effigy?

86coupe
17th October 2009, 07:13 PM
The problem with evolution is that given enough time, all you end up with is Tim.duncan.

breno
17th October 2009, 07:33 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cpIJO5U9Ts

Beau
17th October 2009, 08:12 PM
I wanna encourage everyone to read a little deeper into the Bible.

Stop right there. If you had actually read my post you will notice i have challenged the bible with valid points to prove it wrong..

So how deep do you want me to look?

enigma
17th October 2009, 08:29 PM
only just cought up reading all the post! man that took a long time.

Question: if evolution is a fact why is it still called the "theory of evolution"? and not darwins law

slide86
17th October 2009, 08:32 PM
wow, this thread is still going on!

An I have no applications for The cult of 86.....what's wrong?

where do i sign up and what bank account do i deposit my life savings into?

fantapants
17th October 2009, 09:02 PM
"laws" apply to measurable and repeatable instances. Mathematics for instance.

"theory" applies to accepted explanations for occurances. Given the time periods involved and the lack of long term recorded history conclusive and repeatable evidence and or proofs will be a long time coming.

Do you also discount einsteins theory of relativity?

Also "darwins" theory of evolution isnt attributed to darwin. The initial thoughts and writings were given to him and he openly recognised this. however the popularity of the term stuck.

Also Darwins theory of evolution is a cornerstone of our understanding of evoltuion as a topic, but is only a part of it.

I still dont see anyone who can explain why science and religion cant complement each other?


only just cought up reading all the post! man that took a long time.

Question: if evolution is a fact why is it still called the "theory of evolution"? and not darwins law

86coupe
17th October 2009, 09:07 PM
http://www.pbfcomics.com/archive_b/PBF111-Reset.jpg

Frak
17th October 2009, 09:10 PM
where do i sign up and what bank account do i deposit my life savings into?


oh, fantastic brother, I think you should also tell all your friends how wonderful The Cult of 86 is and they too should deposit their cash.....it's for a good cause. :) (Frak's retirement slush fund, but don't tell anyone that ;) )

enigma
17th October 2009, 09:14 PM
"laws" apply to measurable and repeatable instances. Mathematics for instance.

"theory" applies to accepted explanations for occurances. Given the time periods involved and the lack of long term recorded history conclusive and repeatable evidence and or proofs will be a long time coming.

Do you also discount einsteins theory of relativity?

Also "darwins" theory of evolution isnt attributed to darwin. The initial thoughts and writings were given to him and he openly recognised this. however the popularity of the term stuck.

Also Darwins theory of evolution is a cornerstone of our understanding of evoltuion as a topic, but is only a part of it.

I still dont see anyone who can explain why science and religion cant complement each other?

so are you saying even though something cant be proven that if it is an accepted explanation it should be believed?

ArbPotatoes
17th October 2009, 09:21 PM
so are you saying even though something cant be proven that if it is an accepted explanation it should be believed?

The most correct explanation is usually accepted. Newtonian physics, doesn't always work, but they still teach it because it's mostly correct.

todd
17th October 2009, 09:21 PM
hey enigma, if u can prove it wrong, then by all means go ahead!

enigma
17th October 2009, 09:28 PM
im pretty sure thats not how scientific method works

Chaos Theory
17th October 2009, 09:32 PM
on the truth scale the theory of evolution is still a step above the fantasy known as religion.

fantapants
17th October 2009, 09:34 PM
so are you saying even though something cant be proven that if it is an accepted explanation it should be believed?

no.... what i gave was an explanation of the difference between a scientific law and a scientific theory.

you took from it what you wanted.

an accepted scientific theory is something that currently explains expected results from measurable events, BUT for a multitude of reasons can not currently be proven. It does not claim to be the sum total of knowledge. It claims to be an effective explanation for the measured result.

Not picking a fight, but you asked a question and i provided you with an answer. Take it gracefully despite the fact it answered what you clearly thought was a very clever conundrum :)

or was it a enigma wrapped in a riddle served on a puzzle?

enigma
17th October 2009, 09:39 PM
i dont believe i ever said anything about religion. all i asked was if evolution was a fact why isnt it a law of science. all ive got in reply is if you believe in something then its true. great logical reasoning there.

enigma
17th October 2009, 09:43 PM
no.... what i gave was an explanation of the difference between a scientific law and a scientific theory.

you took from it what you wanted.

an accepted scientific theory is something that currently explains expected results from measurable events, BUT for a multitude of reasons can not currently be proven. It does not claim to be the sum total of knowledge. It claims to be an effective explanation for the measured result.

Not picking a fight, but you asked a question and i provided you with an answer. Take it gracefully despite the fact it answered what you clearly thought was a very clever conundrum :)

or was it a enigma wrapped in a riddle served on a puzzle?

lol.

i dont wish to fight anyone. i just tried to point out that like you said just cos something cant be proven doesnt stop people from believing it true

Tim.duncan
17th October 2009, 09:46 PM
wow... slideways and tim really set the bar pretty high for uneducated comments :)

any christian who feels that they are unable to believe in science is a very lazy christian. There is nothing in the bible that says evolution isnt accurate, that the big bang isnt how it happened, that there isnt inteligent life outside the planet earth.



i never said i did not belive in science, i can not belive that the things around me do not have a creator. I would like to suggest that the start of Genesis is a good example of how God created all the animals and Man at the same time not threw using evolution. Cosmology is regarded in science cirlces as richard dawkins puts it "wating for its darwin" they are unsure how things happened (aposed to evelution which they feel they have a pretty good grip on) the big bang is a good theroy consedering the proof that the universe is continually expanding. As for the inteligent life out side this planet i would say the bible supports this

fantapants
17th October 2009, 09:54 PM
do you just refuse to read?

your confused with the theological argument " i think therefor i am"

its not that people believe in evolution, therefor its fact.

Its that evolution as a THEORY explains the natural world better than any other theory with HIGHLY predictable and accurate results. You can find a set of circumstances in the environment, and using the scientifically accepted application of the theory of evolution, predict with a degree of accuracy and repeatability what the outcome on the species present will be.

This makes it an accepted scientific THEORY.

E=mc2 This isnt a law as such, but explains what i mean. No matter how many times you perform this formula and how many people do it, the answer is allways, unfallably, undeniably the SAME. It started as a theory. It was peer reviewed, challenged, prodded, poked examined and tested time and time again. It always worked and always gave the same result. It then got accepted as scientific LAW.

the theory of evolution may very well become "darwins law" at a time when human technology an thinking have progressed to a point as to be able to conclusivley prove the theory. Or it may well be proven wrong. But untill it is proven or disproven, it remains the BEST explanation for the natural world. An explanation that the scientific community all but unanimously accept as correct.

As for logical reasoning. yes, this is very logical. and very well reasoned out.


i dont believe i ever said anything about religion. all i asked was if evolution was a fact why isnt it a law of science. all ive got in reply is if you believe in something then its true. great logical reasoning there.

Javal
17th October 2009, 09:54 PM
Xenu! Xenu!

enigma
17th October 2009, 10:00 PM
do you just refuse to read?

your confused with the theological argument " i think therefor i am"

its not that people believe in evolution, therefor its fact.

Its that evolution as a THEORY explains the natural world better than any other theory with HIGHLY predictable and accurate results. You can find a set of circumstances in the environment, and using the scientifically accepted application of the theory of evolution, predict with a degree of accuracy and repeatability what the outcome on the species present will be.

This makes it an accepted scientific THEORY.

E=mc2 This isnt a law as such, but explains what i mean. No matter how many times you perform this formula and how many people do it, the answer is allways, unfallably, undeniably the SAME. It started as a theory. It was peer reviewed, challenged, prodded, poked examined and tested time and time again. It always worked and always gave the same result. It then got accepted as scientific LAW.

the theory of evolution may very well become "darwins law" at a time when human technology an thinking have progressed to a point as to be able to conclusivley prove the theory. Or it may well be proven wrong. But untill it is proven or disproven, it remains the BEST explanation for the natural world. An explanation that the scientific community all but unanimously accept as correct.

As for logical reasoning. yes, this is very logical. and very well reasoned out.

im sorry for not reading properly. what i should of said was evolution should be believed even though its not a fact.

fantapants
17th October 2009, 10:06 PM
sorry the second bit was not directly angled at you tim :) and the first bit was a bit harsh :)

Having a creator doesnt mean not believeing in evolution or any other science. If god went to all the effort to create a ordered universe with measurable and quantifiable laws, wouldnt it make sense that he chose to use those laws for the creation of his masterpiece???

With all the immeasurable time at his disposal, why would he be so impatient as to "fake" the first trillion or so millenium that led to life on earth just to skip to the glory stroke??? Simple annalogy - building our cars is almost as much fun as driving them. And the driving is all the sweeter with all the blood sweat and tears that have gone into them???

There are many many examples in the bible that time scales are well warped. The 7 days could well have spanned the full spectrum of earths existance till the "awakening" of humanity.

The bible also contradicts itself - as my wife just pointed out :) - one version of the creationalist story is the 7 days, the other takes about 18 months :)


i never said i did not belive in science, i can not belive that the things around me do not have a creator. I would like to suggest that the start of Genesis is a good example of how God created all the animals and Man at the same time not threw using evolution. Cosmology is regarded in science cirlces as richard dawkins puts it "wating for its darwin" they are unsure how things happened (aposed to evelution which they feel they have a pretty good grip on) the big bang is a good theroy consedering the proof that the universe is continually expanding. As for the inteligent life out side this planet i would say the bible supports this

fantapants
17th October 2009, 10:08 PM
ps im watching "escape from newyork" so fuck you snake plisskin!!!!!!!!!!!

Joshie_Mcslide
17th October 2009, 10:10 PM
Whats the fucking point of this?
Yes....Its evident we all have diff oppinions an shit.......Who here honestly gives a fuck?

Like really actually cares what happens after we die?
Sure...I'm curious!
But I don't care...........We're here to live,thats all!
all this is only relevent when were dead!

True?

enigma
17th October 2009, 10:12 PM
im really not tring to pick a fight with you fantapants cos you seem to be a reasonable guy but there are only 6 "days of creation" in the bible not seven.

Joshie_Mcslide
17th October 2009, 10:13 PM
how many pages?

fantapants
17th October 2009, 10:24 PM
lol i was refering to the creation story, of which 7 days are listed and described.

fair point only 6 days involved creating, but the story is of the 7 days of the creation of the earth. The 7th day was when god rested, and was made holy by god.

another one i love asking is why finding the grave and remains of jesus means he WASNT the son of god?

Vance
18th October 2009, 12:11 AM
religion and politics are both tropics to keep away from unless you want a fight on your hands.


i think ill jump in and say this:

if you look into the old hebrew that the old testament is written in you will see the world in the old language for "days" is used for a period of time, not a set time such as a normal sunrise to sunset day as we know it.


if you talk to any archaeologist who specialises in the fossil record they will all tell you that it supports the creation account from the bible more than evolution.

evolution says beings evolves slowly overtime but through the use of carbon dating on these fossils it shows how after periods of time new beings just sprung up several thousand years after each other. thats why we have different ancient periods in which we classify creatures that existed in any period of time.

the Bible says how different creatures were created on different days (in different periods of time)

there isnt 1 missing link, theres unlimited.


if you doubt the authenticity of the bible read it from start to finish. you will realise that even though it was written by 40 odd different men over thousands of years that it speaks about the same thing from start to finish.

in genesis it speaks about the creation account and how man was created as a perfect being and placed in a perfect place to live on the earth. he was to spread this perfect place to live over the entire earth - which is mans purpose of living, a caretaker of the earth.

it then speaks about God's (YHWH or Iehova or Jehovah; depending on translation) universal sovereignty (his right to rule because he created all things) and how that right was challenged by an opposer Satan.

Satan misled man into serving themselves instead of God which raised the issue, "Does God have the right to rule?"

God has allowed mankind to live serving themselves doing what they want to prove that man cannot rule themselves and have peace, that the only way to live a happy and peaceful life is by living by God's standards. He has allowed this only for a period of time.

When you read early in Genesis where man disobeyed God he straight away knew he had to put something in place to fix the problems and face the issues and still bring about his original purpose.

In Revelation we read about how God will eventually bring about his original purpose of mankind living in a paradise earth free from the problems we have today. living in conditions just like those in the beginning.

In the old testament (Genesis Chapter 3) it fortold the "Seed" which included the "Messiah". This seed was to be used to bring about God's purpose for mankind.

Israel was originally chosen to be part of the Seed but when they rejected the Messiah others were chosen to be part of this Seed. These new ones could be of any nation on the earth, not just the Jews. These were followers of God's son, the Messiah.

The Seed is made up to form God's Kingdom which Christians all over the earth pray for in the prayer recorded in Matthew 6.

God's Kingdom was known by the Jews to bring about God's purpose for the earth. Thats why when Jesus was on the earth they wanted to make him king to bring about these changes. He told them though that his "kingdom was no part of this world".

If you have a Bible and want to read more about God's Kingdom look up:
Daniel 2:44 (talking about what God's Kingdom is, a governmental arrangement)
Luke 4:43 (Jesus speaking about his reason for being on the earth was to preach about God's Kingdom)
Matthew 24:14 (Speaking about a worldwide preaching work that will be undertaken speaking about God's Kingdom)

Jesus and the rest of the Seed when ruling in God's Kingdom will bring God's original purpose into reality. Things Jesus did whilst on earth such as healing the sick, feeding the hungry, resurrecting people from the dead and teaching people to live in a way that pleases God he did as examples of what he will do in the future. He will do this when God's Kingdom is ruling over the earth but on a grander scale than when he was on the earth.

Konakid
18th October 2009, 12:50 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYW2xXxFVtU&feature=related
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYW2xXxFVtU&feature=related)

RELIGULOUS (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3791007322683758535#)

Nice.

driftke70
18th October 2009, 02:49 AM
time is still a theory

86coupe
18th October 2009, 07:18 AM
God is a hypothesis - created by man, a species that evolved to be aware of and fear it own mortality.

Richard
18th October 2009, 11:32 AM
we all gotta believe in something otherwise we would have nothing to fight about

Joshie_Mcslide
18th October 2009, 11:38 AM
True......What would life be without conflict?

Tim.duncan
18th October 2009, 01:23 PM
Nice Riojin! totaly agree

GAKI86
19th October 2009, 02:07 AM
http://www.cultnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/bennyhinn_narrowweb__300x3870.jpg
u got a $100 dollar bill put your hands up
u got a $50 dollar bill put your hands up
u got a $20 dollar bill put your hands up
u got a $10 dollar bill put your hands up

Jdm-Mcc
19th October 2009, 09:40 AM
I was born into the exclusive bretheran...im out now but let me tell you they are a sad bunch of head fucks. Brain washed heart less zombies

patience
19th October 2009, 10:23 AM
I met Jesus




he was a homeless guy and asked for a few dollars.

Joshie_Mcslide
19th October 2009, 10:25 AM
did you give him the few dollars?

ke70dave
19th October 2009, 10:39 AM
some excellent posts in here. roijin hit the nail on the head on the previous page. good stuff in there.

now about this...


I met Jesus

he was a homeless guy and asked for a few dollars.


did you give him the few dollars?

interesting you ask that

straight out of the bible, (Mathew 25: 35ish)

please read this completely if you are going to comment on it. also remember the bible is written for the people at the time and use analogy's that they would understand (ie sheep and goats).

31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

patience
19th October 2009, 10:57 AM
you take life way too seriously

my statement was a reference to a Maynard Keenan quote where he said he had found Jesus and that he was a bum.

I find your quotes of the bible slightly hypocritical as you own a modified car (where you would spend a large amount of money), and in this day and age where there are countless amounts of charities you can donate too, you choose to spend it serving yourself.

patience
19th October 2009, 11:03 AM
And what do you mean, written for the people at the time.
The bible has constantly evolved over thousands of years. What you read now is a barstardisation of what some Arabic derro wrote a few hundred years after/before Jesus was born, then translated into another language, then again into English.

You Christians choose to take the word of the bible seriously and literally often enough when it suits you.
But when it comes time to mention sheep and goats, human sacrifice etc you simply overlook it.

The bible is simply a collection of stories told about a man who did good a few thousand years ago.

fantapants
19th October 2009, 11:07 AM
thats fairly short sighted argument patience. Donations can come in all forms, not just monetary. And if everyone lived in poverty and refused to purchase anything for themselves above and beyond the necessity, we wouldnt have industry, agriculture, construction, invention, space travel, medicine etc etc etc. Give what you can when you can, but blindly handing over every red cent you have to charities where you have no idea where the money goes just so you arnt seen as having wordly expences???

You dont know what commitments dave has to charrities or otherwise, and the way he chooses to express his passions in life really is in no place to be judged by those around him.

few educated and self aware christians take the bible as a litteral explanation for history.

Chaos Theory
19th October 2009, 11:24 AM
he may not know about daves commitments to charities (if he has any) but he was 100% accurate about the bible.

ke70dave
19th October 2009, 12:31 PM
you take life way too seriously

my statement was a reference to a Maynard Keenan quote where he said he had found Jesus and that he was a bum.

I find your quotes of the bible slightly hypocritical as you own a modified car (where you would spend a large amount of money), and in this day and age where there are countless amounts of charities you can donate too, you choose to spend it serving yourself.

you do make a good point about my car, i do spend money on it. but i wouldnt consider it large amounts of money. its taken my just on 4 years to get it to the stage of where it is at. and its not that modified. the bible sais to enjoy life as well as help other ppl. im not using it as an excuse to spend money on my car, but we arent supposed to just give everything away. we are supposed to help where we can.

i dont see how i take life too seriously, i think sometimes i dont take it seriously enough (the fact that i am a 5th uni student in a course that should take 4 yrs is a testiment to that).

also how do you know how much money i have? and what percentage of it goes to other people. and how do you know what charities i give or not give to?

and also its not just money that is being refered to here. you dont need to spend money in order to help people. how you spend your time is just as importanty, if not more important than the way you spend your money.

agreed with what fantapants has said above me, if we just give up everything we own, how are we supposed to help ppl when needed?


And what do you mean, written for the people at the time.
The bible has constantly evolved over thousands of years. What you read now is a barstardisation of what some Arabic derro wrote a few hundred years after/before Jesus was born, then translated into another language, then again into English.

You Christians choose to take the word of the bible seriously and literally often enough when it suits you.
But when it comes time to mention sheep and goats, human sacrifice etc you simply overlook it.

The bible is simply a collection of stories told about a man who did good a few thousand years ago.

got any proof of your "barstardisation of what some arabic drro wrote" statement?

and your statement of "sheep and goats and human sacrafice" you will find that those practices are mentioned in the old testiment. where people had to give a sacrifice of a sheep or goat in order for their sins to be taken away. (essentially the penalty for sin is death, in gods eyes, and thus something has to die to take the penalty of death, in this case a sheep or goat). however that is why jesus came and die for our sins. he was the ultimate sacrafice and took upon him the worlds sins when he died. thus no more sacraficing goats or sheep! your sins have already been taken care of, all you have to do is ask!

and since we live after jesus has died for our sins, we need not concern ourselves with sacraficing sheep and goats.

i do agree with you though, that as chrsitians we do soften some parts of the bible at times. as like you say its easy to do the easy things. like ive mentioned previously, we are not perfect either and life is all about learning and discovering extra things in the bible that we did not know.

Chaos Theory
19th October 2009, 12:45 PM
and your statement of "sheep and goats and human sacrafice" you will find that those practices are mentioned in the old testiment. where people had to give a sacrifice of a sheep or goat in order for their sins to be taken away. (essentially the penalty for sin is death, in gods eyes, and thus something has to die to take the penalty of death, in this case a sheep or goat). however that is why jesus came and die for our sins. he was the ultimate sacrafice and took upon him the worlds sins when he died. thus no more sacraficing goats or sheep! your sins have already been taken care of, all you have to do is ask!

and since we live after jesus has died for our sins, we need not concern ourselves with sacraficing sheep and goats.
well isnt that just convenient david.




got any proof of your "barstardisation of what some arabic drro wrote" statement?

you have any counter evidence to refute his "bastardisation of what some arab dero wrote" statement?

ke70dave
19th October 2009, 12:58 PM
well isnt that just convenient david.


you have any counter evidence to refute his "bastardisation of what some arab dero wrote" statement?


haha hes called me "david", he must be serious. only my mum calls me david, and usually when ive done something wrong!

not convenient no, and i dont write the rules, god does, its just how it is.

Though in some aspects we have it harder than they did back when they had to sacrafice sheep and goats and what-not.

and as for evidence, a mate showed me this just the other day. its a good read, shows some evidence.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/8449/two.html

ill have a look around and see what i can find. once i get this damn uni assignment done.

GAKI86
19th October 2009, 02:52 PM
^^ wow!!! next time youll find more imagery proof from DeviantArt!!!

ke70dave
19th October 2009, 03:03 PM
^^ wow!!! next time youll find more imagery proof from DeviantArt!!!

all the sources that are refered to in that article have been recorded there..

i dont see what your refering to.

GAKI86
19th October 2009, 04:09 PM
hmmm a from a geocities website?? u sure that dont belong to a religious hobbyist.., people can mention anything in the net these days..

if the bible is the truth why do we have the old and the new?? iBible2.0??

Matt-AE86
19th October 2009, 04:15 PM
KE70Dave, Would you die for me to harvest your orgins and the money that is raised send me to Japan to live for over a year? Of course you would, because you would be doing it for God, the holy lord. Thanks brother. PM and I'll give you my bank details :)

GAKI86
19th October 2009, 04:17 PM
cold hard facts here people...

1. Joseph Free, Archaeology and Bible History (Wheaton, Illionis: Scripture Press, 1969), p. 1.
2. Nelson Glueck, Rivers in the Desert (New York: Farar, Straus and Cudahy, 1959), p. 136.
3. Josh McDowell, More Than a Carpenter (Wheaton, Illionois: Tyndale House Publishers, 1977), p. 57.
4. Gary Habermas and Antony Flew, Did Jesus Rise From the Dead? (San Francisco: Harper and Row, 1987), p. 43.
5. I have personally looked into the issue of alleged contradictions, and after thorough investigation, have never found one to hold. Norman Geisler, who has studied the Bible exhaustively for over forty years and been confronted with numerous dificulties, is of the same conclusion. A valuable resource for further investigation on this mater is Geisler's When Critics Ask.
6. Norman Geisler and Ronald Brooks, When Skeptics Ask (Wheaton, Illinois: Victor Books, 1990), p. 198.
7. Sir Frederic Kenyon, The Bible and Archaeology (New York: Harper and Row, 1940), pp. 288, 289.

i thought Christianity was invented by arabs... and came from jerusalem... now its all edited by people that did not came from there... and why cant people from jerusalem do their own research?? oh wait the christians muslims and jew are too busy together blowing each other up!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcMBjiILTRk

driftke70
19th October 2009, 06:36 PM
Even if it were all true, id rather praise horus, hes way more bad ass.

http://images.epilogue.net/users/lisahunt/Horus_thesun_AD.jpg

shift_rook
19th October 2009, 06:50 PM
his bicep band is kinda faggy though, he'd fuck youup in a brawl but, one beak i wouldn't mess with

KE_OBCT
19th October 2009, 07:56 PM
Oooh Touchy subject.

All I'll say is don't get discouraged or misled. God does lives. Jesus is the Christ. I know this without a shadow of a doubt but it takes work and diligence to truly know they live. Satan has corrupted this world with a mass of confusion and dispair on purpose, he wants us as men to be as miserable as he is, he wants to mask the truth. one of the ways he's tricked men is confusing us with many many denominations of Religion/Christianity. I'm not trying to preach but all I'll say is be honest and humble with yourself and if you genuinely want to find the truth...Diligently Study, Ponder and Ask in prayer with a sincere heart. (James 1:5)

Don't get it twisted, it's NOT easy, it takes time. Just like anything good in this life, you have to work for it but I'll tell you this...

It's worth it :)

p.s I like my God's a little more Masculine! That Birdbrain Horus has got nothing! lol

todd
19th October 2009, 08:05 PM
man i hate preachers.

if i was satan, i would make more preachers so that everyone gets the fuck over religion and then i would win and the earth would be full of fire n shit and it would be siiiiiiick.

Joshie_Mcslide
19th October 2009, 08:17 PM
yeah...sick?

would be sick if someone knocks off your car tomorrow cos he was an evil mother fucka like you and just didnt give a fuck!!
True?

hmmmmmm

todd
19th October 2009, 08:22 PM
siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick

Joshie_Mcslide
19th October 2009, 08:32 PM
True!

KE_OBCT
19th October 2009, 08:57 PM
Little confused:S Did I say something to offend? Wasn't preaching and don't pretend to be a "preacher". I have beliefs and opinions just like yourself, only voicing them as this is a forum. I'm sure it wasn't your intention but it seems as though you've already judged me as some "do gooder preacher" as if that's all that defines me as a person. I'm actually a normal young guy and probably share more in common with you than you give me credit for. (why else would I be on the same forum as you?) You can voice your opinions without trying to belittle others. I shouldn't be made to feel like anything I say will be criticized and pulled down. They were my beliefs, something I hold dear, I never expect anything in return just voicing my own experiences. C'mon man, only asking for a fair go.

todd
19th October 2009, 09:11 PM
wasnt attacking you.
i didnt even read what you had written to be honest.

was directed towards the three seperate groups of people handing pamphlets out and the three seperate places i went to today.
since when did university campus' become fair game for this type of 'advertising'?

leave me be, and ill leave you be. simple :)

KE_OBCT
19th October 2009, 09:33 PM
Ok mate no worries. Your comment was a little vague before and didn't encompass your day. You can understand why I was led to believe you were attacking me as a person as I had little else to go on. Anyway no big deal just a little misunderstanding.

Tim.duncan
19th October 2009, 09:43 PM
And what do you mean, written for the people at the time.
The bible has constantly evolved over thousands of years. What you read now is a barstardisation of what some Arabic derro wrote a few hundred years after/before Jesus was born, then translated into another language, then again into English.



just to clear a few things up, this is a common perspective of the bible but what you need to understand is when it comes to the presevation of the words of the bible as a historyorical document (weather you belive what it says or not) is HIGHLY accurate. when the dead sea scrolls were discovered there was an complete scroll of the book we know as Isaiah and it was 99.9 percent the same as the one we are reading in our bibles today. The newtestement also is very well preserved. people have spent there intire lives making sure nothing gets changed and have been so dilligant translating it that some have died for it!! so just because is seems pretty amazing if its as close to the origianl, simply means it is and would need a divine intervention for it to stay that way. If God wanted to speak to us threw the bible dont you think he would keep it accurate?

just for you guys who do read the bible i have found the king james version to be the best preserved

driftke70
19th October 2009, 10:08 PM
they took out the anti homosexual stuff like 5 years ago

KE_OBCT
19th October 2009, 10:29 PM
just to clear a few things up, this is a common perspective of the bible but what you need to understand is when it comes to the presevation of the words of the bible as a historyorical document (weather you belive what it says or not) is HIGHLY accurate. when the dead sea scrolls were discovered there was an complete scroll of the book we know as Isaiah and it was 99.9 percent the same as the one we are reading in our bibles today. The newtestement also is very well preserved. people have spent there intire lives making sure nothing gets changed and have been so dilligant translating it that some have died for it!! so just because is seems pretty amazing if its as close to the origianl, simply means it is and would need a divine intervention for it to stay that way. If God wanted to speak to us threw the bible dont you think he would keep it accurate?

just for you guys who do read the bible i have found the king james version to be the best preserved

Yeah I also believe the King James version to be the most correct (my personal belief and what I read) But i must say yes the bible is still very accurate but through a number of translations its only natural for things to be slightly misinterrupted. Basically, I believe in the Holy Bible as far as its translated correctly. It's still very relevant in today's times. Alot of prophecies/revelations are now coming to fruition eg. in the last days there will be increasing numbers of calamities, earthquakes, natural disasters, wars, the deterioration of morals and standards etc. Even if you don't view the bible with any spirituality, its still very fascinating.

Joshie_Mcslide
19th October 2009, 10:45 PM
"the deterioration of morals and standards etc"

Tell me thats not happening already!!

blacky86
19th October 2009, 11:03 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/Touched_by_His_Noodly_Appendage.jpg
ftw.

driftke70
19th October 2009, 11:07 PM
started when woman were allowed to vote.

rthy
19th October 2009, 11:08 PM
everytime i see this i lol
http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/Matt/jesus-is-a-pretty-bad-backseat-driver-too.png

driftke70
19th October 2009, 11:17 PM
what wouldn't jesus do!

breno
19th October 2009, 11:53 PM
everytime i see this i lol
http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/Matt/jesus-is-a-pretty-bad-backseat-driver-too.png

hahaha

Chaos Theory
20th October 2009, 12:04 AM
What i dont understand is why religious people cant accept the possibility that the bible is just a bunch of abstract stories and philosophical views.




ACTUAL BIBLE QUOTES



Leviticus 20:18 (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/lev/20.html#18) And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people. this is comical at best. whats wrong with a bit of bloodsport?


Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save him that is sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, it shall be forgiven him. (James 5:14-15 ASV)

pretty sure modern medicine has disproven this theory.
praying isnt going to cure you of AIDS, or do people with AIDS not deserve to be cured because they must be junkies or fags and that would be a sin?


"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction". (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT)sounds like someone who hated babylon wrote this chapter, yet if you're religious you think its factual. whats to say babylon weren't the ones being oppressed by these crazed individuals who want to kill all of them?

If i add "the lord said" to any bigoted ignorant sentence i say will you instantly agree with it?



would you sit down and read The Will To Power by Nietschze consider it to be the word of truth and live your entire life by it?
interesting? relevant? on point? yes, but to take it as anymore than philosophy is the actions of a fool.

todd
20th October 2009, 12:04 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/Touched_by_His_Noodly_Appendage.jpg
ftw.

http://grahamten.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/ceiling-cat2.jpg

Kid Karola
20th October 2009, 09:27 AM
I just stopped in to say this thread is BIBLICAL!
http://www.pureclarkson.com/wp-content/uploads/Clarkson_Jeremy.jpg

Beau
20th October 2009, 01:59 PM
You know what… ive had enough seem to be talking to a wall here. This is the only question that needs to be asked

Christos! You have read the bible? Im guessing yes.. Do you live your life by it or try to live you life by it?

GAKI86
20th October 2009, 02:03 PM
http://www.filmdope.com/Gallery/ActorsF/5733-25514.gif

Tim.duncan
20th October 2009, 05:22 PM
Christos! You have read the bible? Im guessing yes.. Do you live your life by it or try to live you life by it?

well the bible is not just full of "thou shalt nots" its more like 40 differnet books all stuck together, but all inspired by God to tell us about his love. he does this by showing us the start of our world, through to the solution of saving us from sin right through to the end of the world and everything inbetween. The underlying theam is his love for us.

there is also lots of things ecouraging us in a better way to live, things that are good for us and things that are not.

in my own experiance God has shown me things in the bible and encouraged me to take them on board and life my life out in that area. Do i fall short in these areas? yeah sure i do. do i try and do these things so i can work my self into heaven by being a good person?.... no, if i could work and be good enough there was no need for Jesus to take the consequence of sin. Jesus has set the bar on how we should live and NO ONE can reach that bar that is why we need to accept the gift of forgivness.

so to answer your question i TRY and live by the bible the best i can in relization that i will never achive the mark, but i press on towards the mark because of my love for God, because he first loved me! i have felt that God keeps empressing me with different parts of the bible to read and understand i guess this is why allot of people call it a christian journey

Beau
20th October 2009, 05:41 PM
OK.. So if you live your life by the bible or try to..

Then according to it. You should put to death anyone that works on the sabbath day and/or not work on a Sunday yourself that includes work such as picking up the telephone.

You agree that it is ok to stone to death naughty children

You agree that it is ok to sell your daughter into slavery

It also states that anyone that has long hair it is a shame upon them!.. UM JESUS?

Or that command that i agree with but find funny which is a man shall not go near a women when she is on her periods..

If you believe in your religion then you must follow it down to the last word. Because THATS WHAT FAITH IS!

Chaos Theory
20th October 2009, 06:14 PM
funny how the christos are ignoring my last post.


ohh and tim who is god exactly?

driftke70
20th October 2009, 06:25 PM
morgan freeman

http://www.collegeafterhours.com/content/media/sexy-nun.jpg

KE_OBCT
20th October 2009, 06:30 PM
haha this thread was always guna get like this. All good, we all have our beliefs whatever they may be, just hopefully we can all respect each others views. All valid points on both sides. I really don't think this debate will ever be over anytime soon lol

End of the day, my beliefs make me happy, they don't take over my life or make me do anything I don't already want to do, I don't think I'm better than anyone else because of them and never force my beliefs on others and always try to respect people's beliefs and opinions. I just hope we all can do the same.

That's all I have to say in this thread from now on. Dang cars are much easier to talk about lol

*E7*
20th October 2009, 09:04 PM
(bit slow on the uptake here....but...)


who can answer me from a scientific point of view, why we follow a seven day week?

afaik, and i don't know everything... There isn't a scientific/astrological reason.

answers?

Beau
20th October 2009, 09:31 PM
(bit slow on the uptake here....but...)


who can answer me from a scientific point of view, why we follow a seven day week?

afaik, and i don't know everything... There isn't a scientific/astrological reason.

answers?

Oh jebus.

There are tonnes of reasons alot of it date back to being told in the bible that we have 7 days and so on. You are also told in the Bible not to work on a Sunday.. Do you do that? However our dates, years, seconds and hours are governor by the moon, star and orbit around the sun. That is if you believe the Earth is a sphere and not flat.

But hey until you can answer my questions and facts with real facts and reasons you got nothing.

ke70dave
20th October 2009, 09:40 PM
Oh jebus.

There are tonnes of reasons alot of it date back to being told in the bible that we have 7 days and so on. You are also told in the Bible not to work on a Sunday.. Do you do that? However our dates, years, seconds and hours are governor by the moon, star and orbit around the sun. That is if you believe the Earth is a sphere and not flat.

But hey until you can answer my questions and facts with real facts and reasons you got nothing.

the working on a sunday is an old testement thing. which ive attempted to explain in the following.

not ignoring your post chaos theory....i just had work today and haven't been on here.

right first off. alot of you are quoting nice controversial verses completely out of context. which is really quite silly and childish. as its apparent you have no understanding of the context in which it was written. you could all be good journalists!

now these controversial verses you are all quoting, are out of the old testament. now the old testament had stacks of rules and regulations which were gods law. now you have to remember that gods law was ridiculously strict. as evident by some of the words you have managed to find. the reason it was so strict is because that is the way god wants us to live. but of course we cannot live up to his expectations, and thus he needed a new plan, jesus. now someone has quoted something about stoning children when they are naughty. yep if you quote 3 lines that say that without any context, its going to sound very bad.

however. realise that this not referring to a 6yr old kid that has eaten too many cookies. what is being referred to in this passage is a son/daughter/child (dunno why they always use son...) that is able to consciously make a decision to deliberately disobey their mother and father. now remember that one of the 10 commandments is "obey your mother and father". so thus this is a serious crime. and for god, the family is an extremely important thing. and thus the punishment for such a thing is stoning. also remember that the punishment OF THE DAY for crimes and such was stoning. so obviously the punishments OF TODAY are not stoning people for wrong doings, and thus the stoning of kids does not apply in this day and age. it is in the perspective of the people of the time, and so i guess an equivilent for today would be...lock them up in prison..or something.

right now onto your next quote chaos-theory. Leviticus 20:18. which talks about not going near a woman when they are having their periods etc. first off. why the hell would you want to? 2ndly. this is again an old testament laws, when there was alot of stuff about "clean" and "unclean". this is one of those "unclean" things. to be honest its something that i dont completely understand (the clean vs unclean), i shall have to read more. if you want i can get back to you about it.

right now about the verse about healing "Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord". i personally know people that have been told by your "modern medical doctors" that they have absolutely no chance of living from the cancer within them. and the next week when they go back, after much prayer, the cancer has disappeared. and the doctors have no choice but to call it a miracle.

now i think this post has gone on for long enough.

*E7*
20th October 2009, 09:43 PM
OK.. So if you live your life by the bible or try to..

Then according to it. You should put to death anyone that works on the sabbath day and/or not work on a Sunday yourself that includes work such as picking up the telephone.

You agree that it is ok to stone to death naughty children

You agree that it is ok to sell your daughter into slavery

It also states that anyone that has long hair it is a shame upon them!.. UM JESUS?

Or that command that i agree with but find funny which is a man shall not go near a women when she is on her periods..

If you believe in your religion then you must follow it down to the last word. Because THATS WHAT FAITH IS!


Jesus worked on the sabbath,
forgave a sinner,
respected a woman with more than one husband, and prostitutes,
identified with outcasts,
(probably didn't root women during their period) (heresay)

are you saying that JESUS wasn't a good CHRISTIAN???

todd
20th October 2009, 09:55 PM
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/6866/jesus-pimp.jpg

Beau
20th October 2009, 10:00 PM
Jesus worked on the sabbath,
forgave a sinner,
respected a woman with more than one husband, and prostitutes,
identified with outcasts,
(probably didn't root women during their period) (heresay)

are you saying that JESUS wasn't a good CHRISTIAN???

Im not saying anything.. This might be your down fall. I was quoting the bible not me casting judgement. This might be why you cant follow the bible how it is laid down.

Ke70dave. there is alot of wrong with all of that, to say "oh this is what god ment or thats what it was like at the time is stupid" you are just making excuses.

The bible is your rule book, your link to the lord the keystone to your religion so follow it.

Answer me this.. Where was Christianity first seen/started? and why?

ke70dave
20th October 2009, 10:10 PM
Answer me this.. Where was Christianity first seen/started? and why?

well it depends on what you define as "Christianity". if you are referring to the name then i would say it "started" when jesus christ came about, 2000 odd years ago.

how ever if you are referring to the beliefs that are associated with "Christianity" then id say since the world was created however many years ago.

and why? well you either believe it or you don't. you can ask god about that one.

Chaos Theory
20th October 2009, 10:19 PM
his name wasnt jesus christ.

Beau
20th October 2009, 10:34 PM
his name wasnt jesus christ.

thank you! Very correct.

Christ the word means the anointed.

Christinaty was start by the Roman Government, to control the masses and converted them from the older religion and bring in a different form of government.

They tried to bring this into England, Wales and Scotland when they tried to over take them (Pagen religion at this time) after many wars the Romans fell due to a collapse in their own ranks. After they left alot of English men were to adapted to the Roman way of life and morphed it to suit themselves and bring the tribes of England under one ruler. Hence Christinaty was adapted to the newly formed England. And since then has been ingrained in our society to this day.

Most of our Laws and Government are set up around it.

Please note that was a very basic description. Of the Historical FACTS!

racsov
20th October 2009, 10:43 PM
http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/1710/1212821959185.jpg (http://img34.imageshack.us/i/1212821959185.jpg/)

Chaos Theory
20th October 2009, 10:54 PM
thank you! Very correct.

Christ the word means the anointed.

Christinaty was start by the Roman Government, to control the masses and converted them from the older religion and bring in a different form of government.

They tried to bring this into England, Wales and Scotland when they tried to over take them (Pagen religion at this time) after many wars the Romans fell due to a collapse in their own ranks. After they left alot of English men were to adapted to the Roman way of life and morphed it to suit themselves and bring the tribes of England under one ruler. Hence Christinaty was adapted to the newly formed England. And since then has been ingrained in our society to this day.

Most of our Laws and Government are set up around it.

Please note that was a very basic description. Of the Historical FACTS!


this man speaks the truth.

driftke70
20th October 2009, 11:06 PM
why do people care so much about jesus, he was such an insignificant part of the whole ordeal, lord was the lord, he did everything, me made jesus do what he did.

aparently.

i just dont see the point at all, you can still do charity work, you can still be a good person, you can still help out with what the church does, but why the hell do you have to go there every sunday and stuff. Sing hymns, prayers and stuff. Its all irrelevant stuff that god never told anyone to do.

I got confirmed when i was 14 and they rubbed Cinnamon paste on my forehead. What the fucks that got to do with anything. Signify marys placenta or something?

I was always just doing it all cause my mom made me up until that point, i refused to be involved ever again.

enigma
20th October 2009, 11:19 PM
OK.. So if you live your life by the bible or try to..

Then according to it. You should put to death anyone that works on the sabbath day and/or not work on a Sunday yourself that includes work such as picking up the telephone.

You agree that it is ok to stone to death naughty children

You agree that it is ok to sell your daughter into slavery

It also states that anyone that has long hair it is a shame upon them!.. UM JESUS?

Or that command that i agree with but find funny which is a man shall not go near a women when she is on her periods..

If you believe in your religion then you must follow it down to the last word. Because THATS WHAT FAITH IS!

the sabbath along with the ten commandments was part of the mosaic law. which is no longer in effect. if you check your bible at romans 6:14 you'll see that. although as you state some people today still adhere to some parts of it. like jews and seventh day adventists. im not sure bout the hair thing though.

Tim.duncan
21st October 2009, 07:36 AM
i would argue that christianity started with the 12 desiples after jesus told them to go forth and spread the good news about him. there was abviousley a good amount of them around in 64ad when nero blammed they for the fires of rome. Very early on the belife was starting to be corupt from many different people some saying jesus was not a man but fully God and others saying he was not God but fully man. and eventually most of it was full fledge pagan belife slapped with the lable christianity. just look at the catholic church and all there pagan rituals for that one (im not slagging the people of the church but the system its self) including worship on the first day of the week (sun worship) and the celebration of the 25 dec as christmas and easter which is a a pagan time to celebarte fertility (explaning all the rabbits and eggs). Sadely we need to get back to God not what our churches are doing. Which is why i encourage you to all read you bibles and find out for yourselves what is important to God! and looking at the 10 commandments its a good place to start!

The main part of christianity is the christ (Jesus) which is our messiah another meaning of christ (saviour) that is why people care so much about Jesus

Tim.duncan
21st October 2009, 07:38 AM
[QUOTE=Beau;157529]

The bible is your rule book, your link to the lord the keystone to your religion so follow it.

QUOTE]



can i hear an amen brother

Chaos Theory
21st October 2009, 09:32 AM
the bible = MANS idea of what HE THINKS HIS "god" wants.

religion turns otherwise perfectly rational human beings into completely ignorant morons.

you arent even willing to accept the possibility the bible may be false, where as i hate religion and everything it stands for, i see the bible for what it is A BOOK WRITTEN BY MAN, yet i can still entertain the possibility that there is an odd chance it may be true.

ThatsHowWeRoll
21st October 2009, 11:02 AM
why do people care so much about jesus, he was such an insignificant part of the whole ordeal, lord was the lord, he did everything, me made jesus do what he did.

aparently.

i just dont see the point at all, you can still do charity work, you can still be a good person, you can still help out with what the church does, but why the hell do you have to go there every sunday and stuff. Sing hymns, prayers and stuff. Its all irrelevant stuff that god never told anyone to do.

I got confirmed when i was 14 and they rubbed Cinnamon paste on my forehead. What the fucks that got to do with anything. Signify marys placenta or something?

I was always just doing it all cause my mom made me up until that point, i refused to be involved ever again.


Jesus is part of the trinity. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit...they are essentially one being. My Father for example does not fit in at church for various reasons and chooses not to go most sundays but he still has a relationship with God and looks to Jesus everyday...the church is not a just building where people gather every sunday...

And in reference to the post about the destruction of babylon....Babylon was a place that was unholy and full of false Gods. Many prohpets of the bible predicted the fall of baylon and some were even held prisoner in Babylon....The Babylonians were the ones persecuting and opressing God's people and God showed his might and power towards them. It also has things to do with God's promise to Abraham...which i think riojin has mentioned in the form of the seed!...God is above all of us and even if we don't understand the things he did...when we are fully redeemed we will know and understand and His actions and they will be just...

And praying does perfrom miracles. If it's in Gods will it will be done. Last weekend a lady in my church was healed of holes in her teeth...she needed 4 fillings but after prayer for healing of them she now only needs 2!...When Jesus returned to his home town he did not perform many miracles because they lacked faith and often persecuted him...much the same in this land i believe...go to a place where the only thing they have is faith and you will see miracles of healing and even raising of the dead....

Chaos Theory
21st October 2009, 11:30 AM
false gods according to the MEN who wrote the bible, who were obviously racist, sexist assholes who wanted control over the world through the lack of independent thought.

they just took these "false gods" and turned them into devil figures.



http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/327534/from_horned_god_to_lucifer_the_origin.html?cat=34

^ this article has very valid and factual points about the bigoted ignorant and often homicidal attitudes of christians.

ThatsHowWeRoll
21st October 2009, 12:04 PM
To be honest mate, there are a lot of 'Christians' that have odd views on the Bible and how things should be....I cringe at the word religion, which is the source of a lot of evil in the world...i want people to come to know Jesus through independent thought not because they are born into it or because of convenience....the biggest shift in my life has been that of an encounter with the living God, not historical readings etc...lately i have been craving more revelation about Bible and the more i look, the more i find truth.

The Bible says that things will get worse before they get better so to speak. False worshipers will be everywhere and confusion will be wide spread....and yes there are people in history who have lead churches etc and have preached/taught the wrong things, and the things that suited them not the thruth. It is pretty obvious to me when people aren't being honest. And i do the best i can to only tell people the truth. You can't hold God or Jesus accountable for people being selfish out their own free will....thats the world for you and it is in our nature to sin....the love of God is always there with open arms for the ones who truely want to know Him...

Joshie_Mcslide
21st October 2009, 12:17 PM
ThatsHowWeRoll, Well said.......i was kinda poking reference to that before.

Look around you atm how shit is...a mate of mine died a few days ago in ballarat and some twisted lady pinched the air suply of her elderly mother to knock her off!
Thats In piss ant Ballarat!
One of my chidhood friends,familys moved to melbs a few years back.....his younger brother almost got bashed to death a few weeks ago!

I walked away from churches so to speak a long time ago.....But I believe In God ,Revelations is on the money....imo were living it now!
Shits Fucked Up!!

Whats your explanation?

Chaos Theory
21st October 2009, 12:59 PM
self fulfilling prophecy.