PDA

View Full Version : Brake fade problems. Help?



shadow_bunny
13th January 2009, 12:50 AM
As the title states, I have brake-fading probs. In any pass longer than 4-1/2- 5 minutes and my brakes are about 75 % out, to the point were I just slow down and coast cause I dont wanna crash my car. I already do the heel-toe and some rev-matching (for some reason rev-matching takes me a lot more concentration), so a lot of the braking is done with the engine/transmission.

what else im i not doing that would atleast help reduce the time in which brake fading appears? o_O c'mon seasoned vets, lend me your knowledge!

if it helps, I use Dot 3, and my pads are nothing special.
and also, this is my daily driver(sr5 coupe), im not looking to spend grands on upgrades, eventually ill get an actual sports car, im just gaining skill with this one. so telling me to get brembos is out of the picture.

ThatsHowWeRoll
13th January 2009, 09:09 AM
get some pads that have a better heat rating....the material is getting to hot and decreases performance..

EBC green stuff in win.

kaibeecee
13th January 2009, 10:31 AM
you can't get better braking without paying what the upgrade is worth.

but as said, better pads with a higher temp rating is where to start.

and being and SR5, does it have front vented rotors?

Adsie
13th January 2009, 10:36 AM
Thought they didn't make EBC green stuff to suit sprinter calipers?

shadow_bunny
13th January 2009, 10:57 AM
get some pads that have a better heat rating....the material is getting to hot and decreases performance..

EBC green stuff in win.


you can't get better braking without paying what the upgrade is worth.

but as said, better pads with a higher temp rating is where to start.

and being and SR5, does it have front vented rotors?

thanks guys, and yes i understand that you can't cheap out on upgrades. also, my sr5 has vented rotors. unless you mean drilled, then no it doesnt. =[

ThatsHowWeRoll
13th January 2009, 11:52 AM
Thought they didn't make EBC green stuff to suit sprinter calipers?

Really! devastated...they are really good.

Or you can go all out.

http://www.project-mu.com.au/en/products/pad_bspec.php

shadow_bunny
13th January 2009, 12:34 PM
Really! devastated...they are really good.

Or you can go all out.

http://www.project-mu.com.au/en/products/pad_bspec.php

I saw the link>>
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/0/7/6/3761.jpg

but then...
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/0/7/6/3762.jpg
v_v being broke sucks.

letsgohunting
13th January 2009, 12:37 PM
Good fluid - DOT 4 or better. Good brake pads. Will solve most of your braking probs

Sam-Q
14th January 2009, 02:13 AM
do you have standard brakes? if so go for a brake upgrade that involves vented rotors.

If your peddle is geting spongy then put a higher temp brake fluid in, the Sin brand fluide seems to have a very high heat rating for the price.

gslrallysport
19th January 2009, 10:51 PM
Guys checkout http://www.qfmperformance.com

Both HPX (550 degrees) and A1RM (780 degrees) available for both ADM and JDM front calipers, as well as HPX rear pads, and also A1RM front ADM pads minus 3mm thickness to suit vented JDM rotor with ADM calipers.

HPX $79 per axle set front or rear, A1RM $119 per axle set front or rear. There's also a stack of links to various forums where customers have given feedback on the pads.

Also make sure you have decent fluid as that will be the weak link LONG before pads. $59 get's ya a 1L bottle of TRW RBF600, equal to the Motul or Castrol stuff.

s14seriesII
19th January 2009, 10:58 PM
fit a set of re55 tyres and u basicly wont ever need to slow down with a 4a brakes will be no issue then

letsgohunting
21st January 2009, 12:48 AM
Guys checkout http://www.qfmperformance.com

Both HPX (550 degrees) and A1RM (780 degrees) available for both ADM and JDM front calipers, as well as HPX rear pads, and also A1RM front ADM pads minus 3mm thickness to suit vented JDM rotor with ADM calipers.

HPX $79 per axle set front or rear, A1RM $119 per axle set front or rear. There's also a stack of links to various forums where customers have given feedback on the pads.

Also make sure you have decent fluid as that will be the weak link LONG before pads. $59 get's ya a 1L bottle of TRW RBF600, equal to the Motul or Castrol stuff.


Forgot this guys name (sorry) but I recently bought a set of A1RM pads from him for my s14 and I can attest to a) him getting them to me very very quickly and b) the pads themselves being brilliant. They're wearing well, throw off very little brake dust and haven't faded yet on some fairly harsh downhill runs, even when running semi slicks. Much better than Bendex Ultimates and probably comparable to the good EBC pads. I'll be buying another set when these wear

Just FYI.

gslrallysport
21st January 2009, 10:28 AM
Thanks mate! Yep, the A1RM if FAR better than an Bendix Ultimate. It's in the Ferodo DS2500 performance range, yet as you say, throw out very little dust, and also have great cold bite and rotor wear. At 780 degrees (200 better than Ultimates, or 150 better than EBC Green) they're the ultimate street pad, and cheaper than most other things out there on the market!

Cheers,
Greg

45aken
21st January 2009, 12:12 PM
how much do you sell them for an s13 up front man?

gslrallysport
21st January 2009, 12:18 PM
$79 for HPX, or $119 for A1RM. We've currently got a half price rears deal, which makes front and rear HPX $131 delivered, or $191 for A1RM front and rear delivered. BTW is your S13 SR20DET or something else?

Also, does anyone know who 'Nick' on the old forum is here? I started talking to him about becoming a sponsor, but can't find him anywhere here?

Cheers

ae71
21st January 2009, 12:49 PM
ducting can also help...

you would also be surprised what some good quality DOT 4 fluid will do!

DOT 3 fluid is a lower spec than DOT 4

samuel
21st January 2009, 03:17 PM
I use Dot 3, and my pads are nothing special.


thats your answer!!! go get some dot 4/ 4.5 castrol for starters the go and buy some ebc green pads all up it should cost you about $120-$150 MAXIMUM

i had a 4ac sprinter once upon a time (completely stock not one mod done to the car) and after about 3 laps of king lake that was the only time the brakes faded/failed on me and that was some intense driving

you might also want to check your brake booster and master cylinder if its only lasting 5mins there could be something wrong but my guess it it's that dot 3 and brake pads your using.....

focus_7
21st January 2009, 05:05 PM
I've got a completely stock Sprinter and I felt my brake pedal getting spongier while on a natio run with the other sprinter boys.

Should I be worried?

johl
21st January 2009, 05:59 PM
$79 for HPX, or $119 for A1RM. We've currently got a half price rears deal, which makes front and rear HPX $131 delivered, or $191 for A1RM front and rear delivered. BTW is your S13 SR20DET or something else?

Also, does anyone know who 'Nick' on the old forum is here? I started talking to him about becoming a sponsor, but can't find him anywhere here?

Cheers

his name on this site is Webmaster

lovemy86
21st January 2009, 07:06 PM
whats wrong, brake fade makes things interesting. every time you make it home, you know it was a good day. lol only joking. i changed to motul DOT 4 as soon as i got my 86 but haven't got new pads yet, i hardly ever get fade.

letsgohunting
21st January 2009, 07:53 PM
I've got a completely stock Sprinter and I felt my brake pedal getting spongier while on a natio run with the other sprinter boys.

Should I be worried?

Can you read? Seriously? Because you just skipped like 10 posts explaining exactly what you asked.

Pads
Fluid.

gslrallysport
22nd January 2009, 10:49 AM
Dude, it's your fluid mate!

The fluid we use and recommend is the TRW GP600 brake fluid:
TRW GP600 Dot 4 Racing Brake Fluid
Dry - Min 310
Wet - Min 204

That's about the best out there short of Castrol SRF, or GS610. But significantly cheaper than either of them at $59 for a 1L bottle.

For comparison, some other popular brands:
Motul Dot 5.1
270 dry
185 wet

Castrol Response Super Dot 4
286 dry
184 wet

I'll hook you up with a 1L bottle and a set of 780 degree street/track A1RM (Ferodo DS2500 type performance) pads for for $179 shipped. That will solve all your problems!

japlish
22nd January 2009, 09:51 PM
upgrade your fluid to dot 4
get slotted rotors
get LUCAS pads, ebc cost too much for little gain.

i work at a brake shop....;)

gslrallysport
22nd January 2009, 10:19 PM
Lucas are a very good pad, but also very dusty, and loose bite in the top end temp range when pushed hard. But they are an excellent street pad, and are available for pretty much any application. But having now personally switched both my road and rally car from Lucas (now called TRW, NOT Lucas), to the two QFM compounds I'd take them over the TRW, and thus why we've pretty much stopped stocking TRW. This came up a few weeks ago on another forum and this is how I personally compare TRW Lucas to what else is out there:
http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/977632-post26.html

Still miles ahead of EBC or Bendix, but no longer my first preference on pads like they used to be.

japlish
22nd January 2009, 11:12 PM
yeah i know they're dusty but i doubt most of the people on this forum care about that :D

p.s lucas, TRW same thing really, if you look on some box's it has the trw code on one side and the lucas code on the other.

gslrallysport
23rd January 2009, 10:39 AM
p.s lucas, TRW same thing really, if you look on some box's it has the trw code on one side and the lucas code on the other.
No... Lucas is now TRW. There's no both. There was an interim period when they had both logos on the box, but any new TRW box, only has TRW on it.

What do you mean TRW and Lucas code? They're the same thing... TRW boxes have the TRW (Lucas) code on one end, which starts with 'GDB', and the other end is the Australian Bendix 'DB' Reference, with the TRW code in smaller lettering under it.

Matt-AE86
23rd January 2009, 10:58 AM
http://www.project-mu.co.jp/e/images/parts/pads/brake_chart.jpg

Go for the Type NR. All around great performer, I have some myself.

gslrallysport
23rd January 2009, 11:01 AM
What are they worth?

Golberg
24th January 2009, 09:58 AM
For all those recommending going to a high level break fluid bare in mind that the brake system in an AE86 and many other Toyota's is only rated to use DOT 3. DOT 4 and above have harsher chemical's in them and can eat the seals in your system, especially if they are already old and warn.

s14seriesII
24th January 2009, 10:52 AM
castrol srf is compatible with nearly all standard manufacturers seals etc.. and as pretty much the highest performance brake fluid available...

oh and im surprised no one has mentioned mintex brake pads im gonna have to say the best ive ever used and streets ahead of ebc of anything like that

focus_7
25th January 2009, 04:33 PM
Well my brakes broke while driving in them mountains, came up to a hairpin, foot sank halfway to the floor, shit my pants and just pulled up with the handbrake.

After parking it in the driveway for a day only half the brake fuild had leaked out from one side. If the leak is coming from the left side of the car does that mean my right front and left rear brakes are still working?

I guess this gives me an excuse to upgrade fluid & pads.

s14seriesII
25th January 2009, 05:40 PM
Well my brakes broke while driving in them mountains, came up to a hairpin, foot sank halfway to the floor, shit my pants and just pulled up with the handbrake.

After parking it in the driveway for a day only half the brake fuild had leaked out from one side. If the leak is coming from the left side of the car does that mean my right front and left rear brakes are still working?

I guess this gives me an excuse to upgrade fluid & pads.


brakes in rwd cars are split from front to rear not diagonal so if ur left front was leaking then u had no front brakes

focus_7
25th January 2009, 10:32 PM
Well that is alot scarier...

LevinD1
26th January 2009, 01:42 PM
+1 slotted rotors.... make a big difference

gslrallysport
28th January 2009, 04:51 PM
castrol srf is compatible with nearly all standard manufacturers seals etc.. and as pretty much the highest performance brake fluid available...
It's just not compatible with most people's wallets for something that's within a couple of % of GS610 or TRW GP600... and 3 times the price.


streets ahead of ebc of anything like that
That's not particularly difficult in Australia where we run a harder rotor than the UK, and EBC's very low friction co-efficient means they don't bite particularly well and don't perform when cold. Being imported by RDA means the price is fairly average as well...