EOI: 4age re-build thread

[redsprinter]

im no engine builder or have any experince in building an enigne. so i was thinking ... i know it time cosuming .. but would anybody be willing to do up a detail article on a standard 4age re-build , replacing all seal, gaskets etc...

i think this would help alot of the DIY ppl out ... like myself .

if not. im willing to donate my spare engine and all replacement parts involved. i just need someone who is a experince 4age engine builder to go through it with me. since i need my enigne re-built . we could kill 2 bird with one stone. get my enigne biult and more importantly educate the community.

[slydar]

ive built 1 engine before from 2nd hand parts. and have just rebuilt my current engine which i havent run yet.

still, i would definitely not say im experienced. but i can offer some guidance.

basically, the info you need is all in the 4age engine repair manual, which you can download for free online from a few places.

for some one doing the rebuild at home, there are a few steps/measurements/checks you can skip, but its all pretty clear once you start whats essential and whats not.

if you start with a decent engine, thats just tired, i.e no loud knocks, spun bearings, ect this is the best place to start for an amateur. this means in most cases you can just use new standard size bearings, after a visual inspection of the crank, and running your finger nail across the crank journals, to check for any deep scoring.

if you do find you have a crank that needs machining, you might be able to find an engine reco' place that will do the machining and then supply you the correct size bearings to suit. in qld ive inquired and JHH is happy to offer this service.

that just about covers big ends and mains.

oil pumps are best just replaced as a whole unit if you decide its necessary. try to use the latest model you can, im most cases this is ae101 20v. (works on 16v too) you cant use 111 as the tensioner arrangement for the timing belt is different.

little end bearings almost never need attention in 4a's. unless your motor has a funny light knock, which you have determined isnt coming from the mains/big ends, then dont worry about them.

head and block decking isnt necessary usually unless your engine has been over heated.
its easy to check cheaply though, with a straight edge and feeler guage (both cheap tools)

should note here be VERY careful removing head gasket residue. use a scraper with a razor blade, and then "roll up pads" for an die grinder if you have access to one. theyre small abrasive discs, use the soft ones.

ive replace a gasket in an engine before, and not bothered with the roll up pads, but i did you copper spray to aid sealing even with just a normal hg.

if youre going to use a thinner hg, then its probably wisest to have the head and block skimmed anyway, opinions vary a bit here, but the last thing you want is a leaky hg after youve just put your motor together.

as far as bores. 4a;s have very "hard" bores, are rarely every need to be bored out for oversize pistons.

as far as honing, this can be done at home. basically a hone is just meant to clean the bores and provide a slightly roughed up surface for the new rings to bed into. you will find you want obviously a variable speed drill to do it with, and do it at very low speed, moving up and down the bores quite quickly, as the hone marks are meant to be on around a 45* angle. if youre intimidated by this step dont worry, ive been quoted as little as $60 to have this done professionally.

as for pistons, a simple visual inspection seems fine. youre looking for any damage on top from pre-ignition/debris, and any excessive wear on the skirt.

thats all i can think of. the rest is in the book. never done any top end reco work, so cant advise on lapping valves, replacing valve stem seals ect.

[redsprinter]

thanks for getting the ball rolling sylder... good reply.. anybody else that would like to add info please feel free.

i currently have in my garage a nice standard un-opend jdm bigport with 200k on it ... the last owner has assured me that it was in good working condition.. no smoke wats so ever. however i want to get it re-built with all new gaskets, seal and a general tidy up ... i need this motor to last me while. at least for the next 2yrs worth of daily driving and weekend track thrasher.

[70XIN]

Similar to slydar, i lack the experience of doing many engines

I've been reading/consulting EVERY engine builder i've ever met, so i THINK (operative word here) that i could do a very comprehensive rebuild thread, also including things like how to work out your compression, 'blueprinting', and other such stuff.

I'll no doubt do a full article on my 7AGE (which really isn't much different to a 4A), then i can be corrected by anyone else who is in the know.

I'll be making said article in a week or two, my engine is just being finished up by the machinists.

[AE86R]

levin and trueno master book is a good guide also

[lo_rolla]

When I rebuild my motor I am planning on doing a full write up on it from start to finish including photo's and possibly some videos of the machining process.

[biggo]

jason on rollaclub did one back in the day

its was very comprehensive, but sadly most of the pics dont work anymore.

[Konakid]

jason on rollaclub did one back in the day

its was very comprehensive, but sadly most of the pics dont work anymore.


Is that the one on the old forum tech articles "how to build a 4age part XX"?

seemed pretty comprehensive but yeah, pics didnt work.

[slide86]

Well, after much serching on this site and the entire net, i found some info to help on the rebuilding of my 4AGZE.
I thought id write up this guide to help all of us out there to locate the info in one place.

NOTE: SINCE BUILDING THIS ENGINE I HAVE MADE SOME sMALL CHANGES THAT YOU MAY PICKUP ON....IE SMALLER HEADGASKET

There are a few different threads on this site that go into some details of the 4AG engine. I am going to include photos and part numbers fo everything that i have done and installed in my engine.

The start: This is my block, its a 7 rib 4AGZE. It was originally AFM, DLI and has a big port head.
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It has already been fitted with ARP main cap studs
Part number: 203-5403
--First thing i did after receiving the back from the engine shop was to clean the block. I used carby clean to clean all the surfaces and the bores.
--Next i applied oil to the bores to prevent them from getting surface rust.
Now i am ready to install the main bearings into the block
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Here you can see the bearings fitted to the block. I used ACL bearings.
Part Number: MS-1410A M043A
--Next step is to fit the crank and check the clearances. This is the crank fitted to the block with the main bearing caps fitted to check the oil clearances:
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Once the clearance has been checked and confirmed, oil the bearings and the caps are re-torqued to spec.
The thrust clearance of the crank should also be checked at this stage. This is the foward and back motion when the crank is sitting in the block. This should be measured with the new thrust washers installed.
Part Number: 2T1695-STD
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Here you can see the position of the thrust bearing on main cap No.3, identified by the arrow.
Now its time to set the pistons and rods up, my pistons were already fitted to the rods so i didnt need to do this step. I did although have to remove the old rings from the pistons in order to clean them and fit the new rings.

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--Here are two pics of the pistons before and after they were cleaned and had the rings removed. notice the oil squirters on the rod.
The rods have also been fitted with ARP rod bolts
--Now i fitted the new bearings to the rods. Again i used ACL bearings
Part number: CB-1425GP R716H
--Using the rings in the bore, its a good idea to check the ring gap. mine checked ok.
--The rings were then fitted to the pistons. ACL rings were also used here:
Part number : C1741-STD
--Now for the fun part, the rods and pistons are fitted to the block and crank.

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I used a Bluepoint ring compressor tool to compress the rings on teh piston so they can be inserted into the bore.
The rings, piston skirt and rod bearings should all be lubricated to add to the ease of installation.
This is what the engine should look like after the process is completed
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[slide86]

The block has been tunel bored and fitted with 10thou oversize bearings. This was done due to to spun bearings caused by lack of oil changes and maintainence. (previous owner)

I have now installed the oil pump to the block. I bought a genuine oil pump from toyota, it cost a pretty penny and took ages to get here because it had to come from Japan.
This is the block before the pump was installed
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And here it is installed on the engine
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Oil Pump Part number: 15100-19036

Note that i have fitted the pump with a new crankshaft oil seal and a new gasket, i used a small amount of gasket sealer on the gasket. Some people dont, but i do.
Next up, I fitted the oil filter relocation kit. This is the adaptor that allows you to run the lines to the oil filter block.
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i used "EARLS" fittings. This is a Holley company.
Block Fitting part number: 1177ERL
Oil filter fitting part number: 2177ERL
Now i fitted the ARP head studs to the block. These have a top and bottom, so be careful when fitting them. The allen key fitting points up, so you can screw them into the block. It should also be noted that the 4A engines have two different length head bolts/studs. Its pretty easy to determine which is for which side. The exhaust side of the engine has the longer bolts/studs. Its also a good idea to lube the threads before installing.


Head stud kit part number: 203-4203

UPDATE TIME 28-03-06
Time to fit the Rear main, Sump, oil pick up and windage plate.
This is how the engine was left (from the pic above).

I had to remove the engine from the engine stand so that i could access the back of the motor.
This is what it looks like, now time to fit the rear main seal housing and gasket.
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Now the housing and the gasket for the housing have been fitted. lucky these housings have two dowels to align the housing so that the seal sits in the correct position when you are putting it on the crank.


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Now it comes time to fit the seal to the crank, this is a delecate process as you dont want to damage the seal when fitting. Otherwise you will be taking the gearbox out when it leaks oil the first time you start it up!
Now, I dont have the correct tool, but i managed to find something that was the same diameter as the seal. So when i hit it, even pressure is applied all the way round the seal.
The magic tool in question.....A coffee mug. haha, but it worked really well. This is what the seal looks like fitted.


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Now thats all done, I can refit the engine to the stand and start on the sump.
First thing is to make sure the surfaces are clean of oil and dirt. Because the 4AG engine doesnt have a sump gasket, sealant is required and you dont want to have crap on the sealing surfaces.
First thing to fit is the windage plate. I have cleaned it on a wire wheel.


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Now the next step is to fit the oil pickup and the gasket for the pickup. A very important part not to forget, no gasket, no oil pressure!



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Last step is finally to fit the sump. I applied sealant to either side of the windage plate, meaning that the surface that goes on the block and onto the sump are sealed. Its just a case of simply putting the sump on the block, as it has two locating studs near the rear of the engine. It also important to tighten the bolts evenly to get the sump to sit flat and straight. Dont overtighten either, they strip and break easy!

[slide86]

Time to spin the engine over and get the head on!
This is the head gasket i will be using. It a HKS item measuring 2.0mm in thickness.

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Part number of HKS head gasket: 11116-018158AO

Now time to put the head on!

The head has been faced, New shims, new valve stem seals, fully cleaned.
Its the standard big port head from the engine with the standard big port cams.

Here is the head sitting on the block, has not be tensioned down yet.
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A quick picture of the top of the head before anything goes on it. Buckets and shims already installed by engine machine shop.
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Now time to install the cams. You cant mix them up because the exhaust cam is the one that has the distributor/CAS drive on it. I lubricated all the journals and lobes before installing, as well as the caps and the head.
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Its a good idea to install the cam seals in the front caps before you tension them right down, otherwise they can be damaged if trying to hit them in afterwards.
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Time to fit the front cam belt cover and the cam gears. Im using the standard gears at the moment but there will be a pair of adjustable gears making there way there soon. Its a very good idea to use loctite or similar on these bolts.
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[slide86]

Time to fit up the water pump. Im using the one of the motor, not sure if its the genuine one or a mix n match for the RWD conversion. It seems to work ok tho. I gave it a coat of heat proof paint, just makes it look a bit nicer.
811812


Timing belt is the next thing on. VERY important to ensure that you have the cams lined up in the correct position before you put the belt on, also having the crank lined up too!
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There are a few water housing that need to be fitted up, on at the front and one at the back. Ensure to use the gaskets and i used threebond to ensure they seal.
814815


I painted the rocker covers to make it look a bit neater. Its just heat proof paint, but i think it looks alright. Im not really into chrome and all that. But I did pick up some bling bling in the form of an oil cap. Got it of ebay for $6.00

816817818

Now, the interesting part. I was determined not to use teh stock inlet manifold. I picked up a genuine RWD manifold cheap so i thought i would use this instead. BUT it doesnt fit! Time for some modifications....Basically I retained the factory mount, I just spaced it out and lowered it by about three inches.

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It looks a bit rough at the moment, but ill clean it up and paint it all. It actually works well and its quite secure and tight.

[slide86]

im tired now, have to get up soon

feel free to ask questions and leave comments. ive rebuilt bout 60 LS1's as well (yes SIXTY), i wouldnt say im an expert, but a standard to mild rebuild im capable of id say

[slydar]

your post is too big i refuse to read it. but looks like youve nailed it.

can you hook us up a cheap ls1 for my hot rod project? (not kidding actually..)

[slide86]

if you had asked me that 3 years ago i could have got you a complete engine for 500 bills....:(

we had a stack of 12 at work!!!!

i can still get all parts for em super cheap

[sonsta]

this is an awesome thread!!

should put those posts of slide86's into its own thread and sticky it

[redsprinter]

thanks for all the info guys . had a qiuick read through the 4age manual aswell ... i gotta say it very detailed ... which good i guess. .doesnt seem to hard as well.


for a frist timer . like my self. should i not touch my unopened running 4age .. and open up a blown smoky engine and practice on that until i get a feel for all the parts and where they go ?

oh +1 on the sticky ... awesome info on here.

[KE70]

Its easy, me and my bro rebuilt the engine by ourselves by using the manual.

We had a mate lend us his ring compressor and some industrial assembely lube but other then that it was easy.

I guess if you need to install new pistons it will be a bit harder.

[slydar]

thanks for all the info guys . had a qiuick read through the 4age manual aswell ... i gotta say it very detailed ... which good i guess. .doesnt seem to hard as well.


for a frist timer . like my self. should i not touch my unopened running 4age .. and open up a blown smoky engine and practice on that until i get a feel for all the parts and where they go ?

oh +1 on the sticky ... awesome info on here.

wouldnt start with a fucked one if you plan to use it. easy and cheap enough to get a runner. plus it can end up being much more expensive, and in that case hard to justify.

that said if you just wanna pull it apart so see whats inside.. with no pressure of it going back together and needing to run, do it. ive done it before. worth a few hundred bux for the experience. will make you less intimidated when you do it for real.

[slydar]

slide.. maybe you should mention, when fitting the piston/rod assembly, to insulate the rod bolts so you dont score the crank?

its very possible to install them without doing this, but for the uninitiated probably still a good idea, its one of the few precautions really worth bothering with.

[shift_rook]

yeah use 2 bit's of thin hose, it's what the pros do

[lo_rolla]

Yo slide86, you an engine reco-er?

I only got about 9/10/11 months left of my trade.

[slide86]

nah "just" a mechanic

i built that when i was a 3rd year apprentice tho

[samuel]

yo slide86, good post... the engine looks fresh az too!!!

[Mickey H]

Hey, where can i find the 4age manual? want to start rebuilding my gze soon. Its been sitting in a shed with the head taken off for a few years so a complete rebuild is in order. Also how much did your rebuild parts cost? i can get trade price, but was looking for a ballpark figure.

[Dish]

One rule, lots of assembly lube.

I helped out on a few with my mate, just need the dosh and time and I'll be doing a rebuild on mine.