i need help cause im over it

[Rice86]

car - ae86
engine - 16v 4age
use - road
issue- wont start
when- this is first time trying to start since engine rebuild

This always happens to me and im sick of it...

things i have checked...

Fuel - have fuel in tank, fuel is going into fuel lines fine and fuel rail and going back to the fuel tank fine

injectors - just been service so it cant be blocked

ignition leads - has spark

battery - good + jump starting with another working car

checked fuse - all good and most likely all in place and none missing from my knowledge

timing - both dots on cam gears line up, crank pully is set to 0' and dizzy lines up with the dots before installing back into place

JDM Dash loom + JDM Zenki ECU loom [no black diagnostic box, just 3 yellow plugs]

freaking thing wont start...it cranks and cranks all day but it will not run..

i have been told to bridge the yellow plug with 2 holes with a wire so the check engine light will show on the cluster...i did this and nothing shows up while on RED or cranking the motor...

what should i be looking for now to find out why the engine light doesnt show when the yellow plug has been bridged...

does the ADM cluster even have a check light

[Robo86]

Probs wont help, but try the EFI fuse in the engine bay, should be a 15A. when mine blew it would crank for as long as you want but wouldnt start, dunno just a thought.

[boost+k]

first you should check if you have injector pulse (and power at the injectors), then check if you have compression

btw: the injectors will give a negitive pulse to trigger

[slideways]

first you should check if you have injector pulse (and power at the injectors), then check if you have compression

btw: the injectors will give a negitive pulse to trigger

You will need injectors with a Noid light, then check timing with a timing light, the check spark again. then Check earths. Double check Ecu is getting power.

Keep checking everything and you will find it sooner or later

[stuartgze]

check the earth on the inlet mine was loose and caused the same problem. take the fuel line off and make sure it's getting fuel to the rail. check injector pulse with a noide light. check timing. report back if it still doesn't start

[16-4AGE]

I had much the same problem after i built mine , i didn't use a workshop manual so i just winged it . make sure your cams are set up the right way , not just the dots .. my inlet cam was upside down. there are 2 locators on the cam wheel, the lug on the inlet cam faces down and the exhaust one faces up if you know what i mean. as soon as i realised that it fired first go

[ke70dave]

do you get any sort of life out of it at all? or nothing?

if you have a compression tester that would be my first idea, just to make sure you are getting some compression. should get around 180psi or so. (this checks your cam timing too, if its out you wont get any, or low, compression).

next thing is spark, which you say you are getting. excelent.

now fuel, take out the spark plugs, and crank it. you should get fuel mist coming out of your spark plug holes. this is fairly dangerous as that fuel mist is designed to be ignited with a spark. so don't smoke or have anything that sparks. but you will soon know if you have fuel or not.

next is ignition timing timing, i couldn't work out how to do the dot in the distributer thing. so i just put it on top dead center (according to cams/crank) and line up the little rotor button with the number one spark plug lead on the dizzy cap. be careful as as you push the dizzy in it tends to spin a bit (helical gears) so just give it a few go's and you'll figure it out.

a 4age will start with no sensors at all, except for the dizzy. (ive done it in my garage, its great fun, well recommended) so you should get some life out of it if its all lined up correctly and your injectors and spark plugs are firing.

also the adm cluster doesnt have an engine light (from what i know). just get the pin out for the ecu, and put a small bulb between the "check light" pin and ground. its what i did, works a treat.

[Nikkojoe]

So are you using a jdm engine bay loom? If not you probably have not hooked up the efi main relay wire or even the efi main relay in the fuse box. EFI main fuse should be there standard in adm cars...

Near your fusebox/coil, there should be a 2pin molex plug with a black red wire (one pin used). If its not plugged into anything, you wont power your ecu, or give power to COR.

[Rice86]

this is a list of what has happened during the duration of me trying to get it started..

-i have gotten fuel mist to come out of the sparkplug holes a few times,

-i did get the engine to run on its own for a short 1-2sec reving at 2000rpm then dying...

- i did a few times got back firing coming out of the throttle body when testing differnt timing methods

-fuel is going into the combustion chamber as i have seen the piston head a lil wet from fuel...its not flooded and i know its not becaust it was dry yesterday

i have been told it is running in like safe mode/lump mode..thats why i have been told to bridge a yellow plug with 2 holes with a wire, then cluster should show u check engine light with diagnostic beats, then set the base timing...bridging this plug didnt make any difference i might add...

again using complete JDM dash loom and JDM zenki ECU loom and JDM bigport ECU...

i still cant beleive this shit still isnt a plug and play and its really now doing my head in the more i think about it

[RolandGTV85]

if its turning over but not starting check your distributor and make sure its all working. I had the same issue recently and it turned out to be the crank sensor in the distibutor cap

[ke70dave]

try unplugging the map and tps (both at the same time, and separately). when i first got my 4a in it refused to run/start. turned out the tps was bung. it will run with no tps, but it wont run with a broken one (it seems).

[Matt-AE86]

Get ecu pinouts. Bridge BF pinout to B+ pinout. Try this. If that doesn't work, remove the bridge.

edit: http://i35.tinypic.com/9lfj8h.jpg

[Rice86]

Get ecu pinouts. Bridge BF pinout to B+ pinout. Try this. If that doesn't work, remove the bridge.

edit: http://i35.tinypic.com/9lfj8h.jpg

this is different..will try this today...

what does this do?...or should happen when i bridge it.?...

[EDIT]

doing this will power the injectors right?..

[Matt-AE86]

Correct. Usually when you use a JDM 4age harness the injector power is seperate to the ignition/coil power. on ae82 loom its linked via a 10amp fuse. So when you swap it into your ADM car, the plug thats on the firewall for Starter Motor, Water Temp, Oil Presusre, Reverse lights also has a few other things like tacho signal, ignition and injector power.

The injector power wire usually goes into a relay which you do not have. So you either jump it up closer to that plug on the firewall ie; Injector Power (Yellow/White?) with Ignition Coil Power (Orange/Black) and put a 10amp fuse inline for safety.

This then gives power to your injectors.

What you said "It runs for a bit then stops" is typical as on its run up start system it does power the injectors momentarily. I've seen this a few times on this thread and had the same issue when we swapped a 4age from my mates 86 to his KE many lightyears ago.

Just give it a shot the way I said and see what happens. It might be the solution to your problem.

[todd]

hahahaha matt at the ali-g refference hahaha

[ae86-13b]

hey dude back firing out of the throttle body normally means your dizzi is out 180 degreess. when u put ur dizzi in you have to make shore your have number 1 piston on compression stroke best thing to do is get so hose, pull the spark plug out put hose in plug hole turn motor intill you feel the compression coming out once you feel this then turn motor by hand till timing mark on your balancer meets up with 0 on ur timing case. then find number one on ur dizzie cap and make shore ur rotor butten is facing number 1 exactly once dizzi is full in. then best thing to do is make shore u got leads on right find out what way the rotor turns i think clockwise. then put your leads on 1-3-4-2 this is your firing order.

[Nikkojoe]

Correct. Usually when you use a JDM 4age harness the injector power is seperate to the ignition/coil power. on ae82 loom its linked via a 10amp fuse. So when you swap it into your ADM car, the plug thats on the firewall for Starter Motor, Water Temp, Oil Presusre, Reverse lights also has a few other things like tacho signal, ignition and injector power. ....

Could be this, although he said he is using a JDM dash loom which I also assume he is using the jdm relay junction box. That said from memory the injectors are powered of the same ignition relay.

[Rice86]

hey dude back firing out of the throttle body normally means your dizzi is out 180 degreess. when u put ur dizzi in you have to make shore your have number 1 piston on compression stroke best thing to do is get so hose, pull the spark plug out put hose in plug hole turn motor intill you feel the compression coming out once you feel this then turn motor by hand till timing mark on your balancer meets up with 0 on ur timing case. then find number one on ur dizzie cap and make shore ur rotor butten is facing number 1 exactly once dizzi is full in. then best thing to do is make shore u got leads on right find out what way the rotor turns i think clockwise. then put your leads on 1-3-4-2 this is your firing order.

ah so thats the cause of it...yeah i tested it and got back fire then i changed the timing back to normal and it isnt doing this anymore...i just never know what the cause was but now i do


Could be this, although he said he is using a JDM dash loom which I also assume he is using the jdm relay junction box. That said from memory the injectors are powered of the same ignition relay.

yeah im using everything straight from JDM apparently but i will still try it..anything is possible at the moment, wont be touching it until Saturday though, finish work to late during the weekdays...

will tow the car to someone to get it started for me but this wont happen until after the annual meet up so thats why im trying to get it working on my own..

anymore ideas that havnt been mentioned yet will be awesome guys

[Hen may possibly be a nut]

Check through the basics.

- Is it getting compression? Low or non-existant compression could be cam timing.

- How does your ignition timing look? Could be your dizzy is out or there's an electrical problem.

- It sure sounds like it is getting fuel.

Then for the electrics I'd get a wiring diagram for the motor, loom and body, then go through the whole lot with a multimeter. Check the usual things are getting 12V (ECU, injectors, ignitor, etc...) Then check earths (ECU, ignitor, manifold, block, etc...)

Checking for ECU error codes is incredibly useful too. AFAIK the ADM dash doesn't have a check engine light. Run a wire from 12V to a light globe (or resistor and LED in series, make sure it's the right way round) and then to the W pin (check engine light, it pulls to ground). If you're unsure of all plugs, you can also just ground the T pin (diagnosis) to get it into diagnosis mode and check codes.

Hen

[Rice86]

bump

had a play with a multimeter yesterday after work following the diagnosis manual

fuses fine
main relay works

had trouble trying to get a "CHECK LIGHT" to flash and by this time it was getting to dark, tired a few thigns to get a paulse but no luck...

will work on this on weekend again...hopefully with assistance from someone with more experience aswell

[redsprinter]

here is your answer

-----> Run a wire from 12V to a light globe and then to the W pin . If you're unsure of all plugs, you can also just ground the T pin (diagnosis) to get it into diagnosis mode and check codes. <-----------

[Skylar]

Do what hen says to do THEN report if you have problems. What you just said ruled out not much.

My money's on cam timing. I think.

Also, you said fuel is getting to the rail and returning to tank but you haven't checked if the rail is pressuring up. Pull the injectors and rail out and hold the injectors into the rail while someone cranks the car.
You could just get a fuel pressure gauge in line and watch the rail pressure up that way but you can watch the injectors squirt to confirm working if you pull the rail. and it looks cool.

You say you have "spark". I had a car once that had spark but wouldn't run. The leads were shitty and there is enough of a spark to appear as a spark but it was probably getting blown out under compression or just too weak to ignite anything. Test this by holding onto a lead while your buddy cranks the car. If it hurts a lot, then I'd say spark is good. If it just zaps you without pain, then get new leads.

[4A-G3]

ummm maybe do a compression test on the engine maybe when the rebuild was done it wasn't done properly and there is no compression running to any cylinders ??

[redsprinter]

i can speak for rice .. motor was built by sprinterman .. so its not likely the motor ... just electrical issue.

shall do some more testing and poking around .

will report back

[Javal]

Although it's been said, i'm going with ignition timing.

Spin her round to TDC, make sure the rotor button is in the correct position. And that you have your leads on in the correct order. remember the dizzy rotates anticlockwise (from memory, lol)

I had this trouble a while back when i marked the distributor housing relavent to the head, and the rotor button relative to the dizzy housing.

All good unless the motor moves....

[Low Style]

Rice where are you located? if in brisbane i know of a guy that knows a lot about elec issues and getting cars running after rebuilds/looms. even makes plug and play looms out of standard looms and can add in bits you want.

let me know if you are in brisbane and ill find the number.

[Rice86]

thanks for all the help guys

Silver styler: im from syd....its a shame there isnt much people down here that are handy with ae86s as there is anywhere else =/

anyways...

car is going back up on stands this weekend and everythings is going to be stripped out again...

i do appreciate everyones input and have copied and pasted all info for a record to turn to...

Mods lock this thread up please

[sundee]

if u go through the entire diagnostic manual and perform all the tests, test that all the appropriate ecu pins and sensors have power etc its got fuel, its got spark, align all the timing marks and pull the rocker covers off and check all valves are closed on number 1 , make sure your dizzy HT cables are pluged up in the right sequence, ie 1-3-4-2

Question: did by any chance you buy a new coil when u put the engine back in or are u using an old coil? and if so u needed the one use WITH resistor, and get into the paint with a file so u have a solid earth. this will definatly cause it to have spark, but the spark will be weak and wont ignite the fuel:air mixture... so u will have spark but it wont start.