Hooking up a 4age 16v RWD cooling system

[keimeier]

was told motor was converted but later found out it wasnt still all fwd components, is there a way to customize them to make it work?

can someone point me in the right direction? a good site, some pictures

for example found this on daveys blog

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_VnHuuVXP4_A/SVoD5jRcrKI/AAAAAAAAAF4/rss5_wnqeok/s1600/4agze%2Bwater%2Bsystem%2Bcconverstion.jpg

would this work on NA smallport 16v? although i have the ae82 thermostat?

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/3/7/6/6/40155.jpg

cheers

[Sam-Q]

copy the first picture and your set

[keimeier]

thanks man so i need an ae92 thermostat housing instead of an ae82 as i have already? cant make the 82 one work?

[keimeier]

and this is fine on an 4age no difference in 4agze example?

[Sam-Q]

yeah easy to adapt, here is a diagram for you:

http://s-86.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37

all it means is a slight change of hosing

[keimeier]

thanks for your help mate most helpful

[keimeier]

hey sam q

i will chuck some pics up in next few days up if u could just check that would be great

cheers

[Sam-Q]

yeah sure thing

[keimeier]

thanks mate

[keimeier]

is this right?

thanks again mate!

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs416.snc3/25102_423560018377_533003377_5312621_6962960_n.jpg

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs456.ash1/25102_423560023377_533003377_5312622_5492116_n.jpg

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs456.ash1/25102_423560028377_533003377_5312623_2352759_n.jpg

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs416.snc3/25102_423560038377_533003377_5312624_4410160_n.jpg

[ke70dave]

that looks like what ive done to mine mate,

and the pipe coming out of the back of the head goes via your heater.

[Sam-Q]

yeah as above it's all right but one. You have made a radiator bypass. Are you going to run a heater?

[keimeier]

nah mate wont be running heater. car is for track purposes. so i that okay?

thanks for your help :)

[Sam-Q]

well then undo the hose off the back of the head and off the water pump and plug them seperately. Or chop the hose in the middle and put plugs in either end.

[keimeier]

sorry i am a little unsure of what u mean? can you draw rough diagram please

wont it work like this?

[keimeier]

ive had a look at a few others and this seems to be the go??

[keimeier]

http://www.18rg.com.au/tech/Rear_water_outlet_installed_explained.jpg

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/3/7/6/6/40373.jpg

[Nic19]

i could sell you my whole external thermostat set-up with all lines and everything with bracket if u want?

[Sam-Q]

no in the other pictures it's different but it's subtle. You have connected a pipe from the thermostat to the back of the head, this is not an option. There is meant to be a heater core inbetween, without it your have a radiator bypass. You need to block both ends seperately

I can edit a pic if need be

[ke70dave]

hey sam i understand what you mean

but is there any reason why he has to block them off?

im not sure on how the water runs in 4age (i just copied a pic on the net to do mine...) but if its as a "Radiator bypass" then its just the same as having the heater tap open all the time? (without the heating of the interiour, and extra "Cooling" of your coolant).

im just thinking if you leave it on like he has it, then there is more water circulating the head, less chance for hot spots? (if hot spots are reality that is).

ps, im pretty sure that the first picture in this thread is wrong? (after some research) also playing with my cooling system im fairly certain that hte water flows into the radiator from the top hose?

[keimeier]

thanks for replies. im sorry i am totally confused now...i had a look tonight at AE70 setup and was exactly the same as first picture and he wasnt running heater core? isnt that how i have done mine? if you could edit a pic that would be fantastic!

p.s. sorry i admit i dont have much knowledge of the mechanical side of things but learning... :)

cheers

[Sam-Q]

ke70dave: the heater core is in parallel with the radiator, it bleeds some of the water off the cooling system and returns it, it's a restricted flow and it cools the water so it has no issues. However if you just bypass it you have a 5/8" pipe that just goes from the top to the bottom radiator hose. I was wrong before about one thing, the top pic is wron but only if you dont look at the crude crawing of a heater core in the system.

keimeier: have a look about the heater core drawing in the first drawing, I will draw you a diagram

[keimeier]

will do thanks mate

[Sam-Q]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/5/2/40405.jpg (http://s127.photobucket.com/albums/p143/daunderdweller/temp/?action=view&current=cooling.jpg)

ok number 1 normally goes to the heater flow control tap, 2 goes to the heater core. If your not running a heater you have to block them both independantly

[keimeier]

thank you very much. so just cut and plug both ends? wont that reduce water flow of the head?

[Sam-Q]

yeah that's pretty much ideal

[keimeier]

all right no worries ill go with that! thanks again for your help :)

[Nikkojoe]

Why not leave the heater tap connected to the hoses but no core connected (just keep the tap closed at all times)?

The thing im probably concerned with your setup is the thermostat is too far back and might be in the way of the steering column.

[keimeier]

how about that?

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs073.snc3/14117_424294758377_533003377_5325941_7534569_n.jpg

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs073.snc3/14117_424294763377_533003377_5325942_8381705_n.jpg

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs073.snc3/14117_424294768377_533003377_5325943_7101061_n.jpg

[Hen may possibly be a nut]

The water outlet on the back of the head (with the brown and green sensors in it) looks really long. Have you checked for clearance when the motor's installed. Others may be able to say if it'll be an issue or not.

If you do need to swap, the one shown in the very first picture in this thread fits in an AE86 with stock mounts. AE82 twin cams have an even lower profile one from memory.

Hen

[keimeier]

i hope it clears doesnt really mater. its jus a pig any way ill cut or bash the f***k out of the firewall hahaha

[keimeier]

is this right now samQ?

[Sam-Q]

yeah sorry for the delay, yeak looks great and good work.

Nikkojoe : In theory thats possible but first up he would have to get hoses to suit, second you would have to disconnect the cable as it would be pretty embarassing if his engine ran hot when he or someone else accidently put his heater switch to the hot position

[keimeier]

thanks samQ for all your help!

james :)

[Nikkojoe]

yeah sorry for the delay, yeak looks great and good work.

Nikkojoe : In theory thats possible but first up he would have to get hoses to suit, second you would have to disconnect the cable as it would be pretty embarassing if his engine ran hot when he or someone else accidently put his heater switch to the hot position

Yeah I don't see how its hard to get hoses to suit, just get a roll of fresh heater hose and go nuts :). I may be doing something similar on my track car, but no one will be driving it other than me :P

[Sam-Q]

well it's not but if something is already there then I dont why to not use it. Besides this may cause you to bust your seal on your heater flow control tap, they arn't the best stock and with the extra flow it might send the old hardened O ring flying, your risk..

I don't get it though, your going out of your way to make something more compromised? just plug it?

[Nikkojoe]

I don't think it will be much of a problem, if anything it would be by-passing already. The above setup is much the same anyway, blocking off with hose... just get the thing welded up closed, no potential leaks ever.

It's not much of my concern atm, mainly finding a suitable water path for cooling my turbo on the 4agte is more of an issue.

[Sam-Q]

well that makes things simple, just use those two connections for your water cooled core and that's all you need, two problems solved in one

[Nikkojoe]

Would it be though? Thinking about it, hot water flows out from back of head, into turbo, water gets hotter, out of turbo into side pipe (rwd 4ac spec) then the hot water is pumped back into block to circulate again? (thats how i see it anyway?)

Im sure it would eventually go into radiator, but doesn't seem that efficient if you know what i mean.

With the heater core there, it would have some sort of cooling before it re-entered again.

[Sam-Q]

well that's how all cars are though, sure it's hot water but it's still cooler than the core, or atleast meant to be. Some less efficient truck water to air intercoolers used to use a simular arangement but through the main passage.

[Nikkojoe]

Maybe i'm just thinking about it too hard, or the fact that i've not had much sleep :P I guess the more i think about it, all would be around the same temp so it wouldn't make too much of a difference.

But yes, initially was just to use the old heater lines.

[Sam-Q]

trust me it will be fine

[ke70dave]

also remember that if your thermostat is working well, and your radiator is working well. then the all the water in the engine should be pretty close to the same temperature. thats the purpose of the thermostat, to keep the coolant temperature pretty constant, and thus keep the engine temp pretty constant.

of course there will be "hot" bits and "cold" bits but these shouldnt vary by more than 10-15degrees or so. (maybe a bit more, but it certainly shouldnt be boiling)

also remember that your turbo is going to be a whole lot hotter than the water that is flowing through it.

turbo might be 200+ degrees (if its glowing, its around 800deg, so its bloody hot either way), and you are flowing water through it that may vary from 80-100 degress. heat transfer relies on temperature differences, and there is going to be a pretty massive delta T weather the turbo sees 80 deg water or 100 deg water.

so im with sam, it will be fine.

also i dont like the idea of using that dodgy tap to block the pipe!!

[Hen may possibly be a nut]

Nikkojoe - I think theoretically you're right, it'd be best to get your turbo feed from just after the radiator, and return it just before the radiator. But in practice the difference would be SFA in my opinion.

I guy I know with cooling problems on an RX7 ran the return water line from the turbo through a little cooler (maybe an old transmission cooler) before it ran back into the engine. The cooler got stinking hot so must have been doing something.

Hen

EDIT - didn't see page 3 before quick replying... so I'm a bit late...

[Nikkojoe]

Nikkojoe - I think theoretically you're right, it'd be best to get your turbo feed from just after the radiator, and return it just before the radiator. But in practice the difference would be SFA in my opinion.

I guy I know with cooling problems on an RX7 ran the return water line from the turbo through a little cooler (maybe an old transmission cooler) before it ran back into the engine. The cooler got stinking hot so must have been doing something.

Hen

EDIT - didn't see page 3 before quick replying... so I'm a bit late...

Was thinking about that last night, running possibly a heater core or some similar sized cooler just after the turbo before it re-circulates back into the engine.

The point i was trying to make was that under normal conditions these pipes should re-circulate slightly cooler water back into the engine, not hotter water after cooling the turbo. That said a lot of people run it just from the heater pipes, and not many seem to have problems. I've still got plenty of time to play around with it, but need monitor the water temps at different spots.

Anyway, as for tap i've seen it done no problems when someones heater core was leaking. Still running fine no dramas (3 years now). Also, I have seen the initial setup shown with the bridge hose used and working fine to.....but that's another story

[cri_ag]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/5/2/40405.jpg (http://s127.photobucket.com/albums/p143/daunderdweller/temp/?action=view&current=cooling.jpg)

ok number 1 normally goes to the heater flow control tap, 2 goes to the heater core. If your not running a heater you have to block them both independantly

umm this is a major fuck up, the rear water outlet is where the temp sensors are located, you now have blocked that circuit hence no water flowing past sensors, you will not achieve an accurate temp reading for your coolant, not to mention fucking up the water-flow throughout the rear of the head.

[Sam-Q]

really? if that is so then ever time your heater is off your going to loose your readings for the ECU and dash? no, the water and aluminium appears to be good enough to keep good enough temperatures there as through the middle.

[cri_ag]

when the heater is closed the water can still flow via the throttle body circut

[cri_ag]

and dash temp is taken from the front outlet pipe, the other sensor is for the cold start injector. also how do you ever plan to bleed the air out of the back of the head if you have stuck a bung in there.

[Sam-Q]

now correct me if I am wrong but doesn't only the big port have the coolant through the throttle? or am I mistaken.

Now why would it have an air lock? it's not the lowest part of the head and doesn't have any upward cavities . Would you normally undo the hose off the heater core to bleed the air?

[blake.]

smallports also have coolant flowing through the throttle body.

[Sam-Q]

I have seen some of the rear water outlets without provision for the throttle lines so one of them must not of got it right?

Now could you explain more about the air lock thing, I am thinking about the option of pulling a heater hose off to make filling easier on my car.

[Nikkojoe]

Throttle body lines on fwd's are on the pipes which run on the side of block. Only on a rwd 4age there was 1 line that came from the rear of head.

[cri_ag]

why would toyota bother putting an outlet on the back of the head if it wasn't required? i think is is much safer to leave it as part of the cooling circuit especially as its where the temp sensors are.

[Sam-Q]

why would toyota bother putting an outlet on the back of the head if it wasn't required? i think is is much safer to leave it as part of the cooling circuit especially as its where the temp sensors are.

For the heater?? I can show you a picture of a rear outlet that doesn't have that throttle coolant provision which means that the outlet won't get water through it unless the heater is on.

[cri_ag]

the ae92 fwd outlet? from memory the lines do not connect at the alloy water outlet, but further down the line after the rubber heater hose.

why would toyota design a system for throttle body circulation only to have it inadvertently switched off by someone turning the heater off?