PDA

View Full Version : Toyota pull out of Australian Rally Championship



mack 10
27th January 2009, 08:37 PM
The world’s most successful car company have cited the current financial situation as the reason for their withdrawal, which leaves their Australian Championship-winning drivers, Neal Bates and Simon Evans, out of a drive.

http://www.rallysport.hu/info/2007/result/images/22/AUS_Bates.jpg

The decision comes just two weeks prior to the opening round of the ARC, Rally Tasmania, from February 13-15.

Toyota’s Public Relations Manager, Mike Breen, told www.rallysportmag.com.au this evening that it was disappointing that the company had to withdraw from the ARC after such a long and successful history in the championship.

Toyota have won the past three national titles – two for Evans, and a third for Bates last year.

Breen said that Neal Bates was hoping to continue in the ARC, dependant on the Canberra driver being able to secure sufficient sponsorship.

Toyota, one of the strongest supporters of the ARC, will be sadly missed from the sport.

The three times manufacturers' title-holder has left the door open for its rally team principal, National Driver's Champion Neal Bates, and other team members to enter the drivers' championship without works support.

Toyota has appointed Bates as a company ambassador with a range of opportunities to represent it in the community.

The decision not to enter the championship had not been taken lightly, Toyota senior executive director Dave Buttner said.

Toyota has been the longest standing manufacturer supporter of the Australian Rally Championship in the series' 41-year history.

It has entered the championship successively since 1990 and has won the manufacturer's title three times. Its drivers have won it six times.

Neal Bates has full use and ownership of Toyota's rally team, including its world-leading S2000 Corollas that in 2008 became the first S2000 cars in the world to win a national rally title.

"Neal is a legend for Toyota and in Australian motorsport," Dave Buttner said.

"In appointing Neal an ambassador we have indicated our desire to continue our 20 year relationship."

Neal Bates was discovered by Toyota in a unique Star Search program in 1989, run as part of the Australian Touring Car Championship.

He was chosen over eight under-25 year-old motorsport aspirants, each of whom raced a works Toyota Corolla in one round of the national series.

Bates went on to win his class in the Bathurst 1000 that year with fellow Star Search driver Michael Dowson.

Within two years Bates was competing in the Australian Rally Championship in a Toyota Celica with Toyota support.

He and co-driver Coral Taylor won the national title in 1993, '94 and '95 in a Celica, and then won it again last year in the S2000 Corolla that was designed and built by Bates with Toyota backing.

Teammates Simon and Sue Evans were third in last year's title after winning it the previous two years in a Group N (Prototype) Corolla.

Mr Buttner said Toyota's decision had been made to enable the company to best service its employees and its customers.

"The decision was made incredibly difficult because there was emotion, enthusiasm and friendship involved," Mr Buttner said.

"It is not a reflection on the performance of Neal Bates and his team and it is important to recognise the brilliant contribution made by every team member," he said.

"Toyota has won the Australian Rally Championship for the last three years as a manufacturer and its drivers - Neal and Coral and Simon and Sue - have won it as competitors.

"In that respect there could not be a better position from which to make decisions for the future.

"We wish both crews the best of good fortune in their future."

Stolen from www.rallysportmag.com.au but im sure they will find a way to drive. Great opportunity for mazda or honda to enter with some decent steerers and talkers.

Konakid
27th January 2009, 10:26 PM
Fucking soft Toyota, just after beating GM for most sales of vehicles ever.

Honda wont they just pulled out of F1

Mazda wont, they are partly owned and mainly controlled by Ford who are financially up shit creek also.

slydar
28th January 2009, 10:34 AM
soft? you dont get to the top by being soft. you get to the top by being smart.

when theres heaps of cash around.. hey sure, fling some at some pointless competition.. but.. honestly. whats sort of returns do you think theyre getting by competing in the ARC?

no offense to rally fans, pointless i mean from a marketing point of view.

Eircamae86
28th January 2009, 03:45 PM
I tought this car would be the back door way to see Toyota in the WRC in 2010 with an S2000, obviously not.. I still dont know why they got involved in F1 in the 1st place. Should have stuck with Rallying & Touring car... boooooo Toyota. Their current fleet of sports cars is impressive.

Moebius
28th January 2009, 04:24 PM
Not a huge surprise, after they canned TRD. The ARC will be better off without a single S2000 manufacturer anyway. Better competition this way.

Jonny Rochester
29th January 2009, 10:02 AM
I expect Neil Bates and the rest of them to continue to race. If not at the next rally, the one after that. Maybe even with the same car, just different stickers. Will be interesting to see. Next one is in Tasmania I believe.

Jonny Rochester
29th January 2009, 10:07 AM
http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3408&Itemid=2

Well there you go. Neil Bates will do the tarmac round in Tassie in 2 weeks. He owns the business so can do what he wants. Only the vinal stickers may say something else, which may not be decided till the last minute.

slydar
29th January 2009, 11:07 AM
yeah, it clearly says toyota are happy for him to continue to drive a toyota in competition, theyre just not gonna pay for it.

Jonny Rochester
29th January 2009, 12:31 PM
1226

Just found this picture from years ago. Maybe way off topic. The toolbox on the left is mine, but I had no connection to the team. It was just my workspace. I got a T-shirt, that was it.

Vance
29th January 2009, 05:45 PM
whats happening to the cars? does neil own one or do toyota? will they sell them off?

Jonny Rochester
29th January 2009, 06:55 PM
I can only use google like everyone else, but I think Neal Bates owns everything. He has the workshop in Canberra of course, Neil Bates Motorsport, and I think he must own all the vehicles as well. Toyota have just paid him to do rally under the Toyota name. And maybe they still have a tyre sponsor?

SEXY 16
30th January 2009, 04:13 PM
great news
these cars should not be allowed to run anyway
toyota have cams in there pocket with these cars
great news for privateers with normal cars running against a team with no rules
flame me if you want every other rally man thinks the same as me

Moebius
30th January 2009, 04:58 PM
You are right if you are talking about the old Group N (P) cars they used to use, but the S2000 cars are full FIA spec.

Andy San
13th February 2009, 10:41 PM
doesn't really change too much anyway, there weren't any other factory teams to compete with them.

gslrallysport
19th February 2009, 04:01 PM
There was nothing every stopping a privateer making a Group N(P) car as a manufacturer agent if they wanted to. In fact, last time I checked, Neil Bates motorsport is a privateer organization acting as a manufacturer agent. Neil Bates Motorsport is not owned by Toyota.

And what gives you the right to say that only Subaru and Mitsubishi should be allowed to run. Thanks to Group N(P) cams were able to keep toyota in the sport, and get Ford to enter it. This is well before the age of S2000.

I applaud CAMS for having the balls to do something that wasn't influenced and dictated by the FIA. Group N(P) is the closest thing we have to Rally America's VERY SUCCESSFUL Open Regs. How about we look at what is working elsewhere in the world instead of being so tied up in going over the same problems here over and over...

In America Hyundai Rally a Tiburon that is regularly at the pointy end of the field, and has won an outright event in the last 12 months, which is great for Hyundai! There's no possible way in Australia that under Group N, Group A, or PRC as a 2WD car that Hyundai could get the same return on investment, cause that car just wouldn't be competitive. And the thing is WAY to heavy to be suitable as a S2000 car. But a Tiburon with EvoX running gear under Group N(P), build to all the same restrictions and requirements as a Group N EvoX would provide Hyundai (or any other manufacturer) with a relatively cheap entry to the ARC at the pointy end.

To flame Group N(P) on the basis that it's not sanctioned by the FIA, is the same narrow minded attitude that will continue to hold gravel rallying back, whilst motorsport disciplines like drag racing, drifting and indeed tarmac rallying continue to flourish.


great news for privateers with normal cars
Funny that, because last time I checked there were two privateer teams running Group N(P) cars in the ARC, Stewart Reid and Glen Raymond... :rolleyes:

carbonae86
27th February 2009, 08:16 AM
...well there's easily the most uneducated, unfounded comment I've ever seen posted on an internet forum. :rolleyes:

There was nothing every stopping a privateer making a Group N(P) car as a manufacturer agent if they wanted to. In fact, last time I checked, Neil Bates motorsport is a privateer organization acting as a manufacturer agent. Neil Bates Motorsport is not owned by Toyota.


Would a N/a 2000cc engine with 280hp at 8500rpm with its restrictor cost alot more than a restricted turbo engine that has the power output already in stock form ? I dont know many people out there within Australia who could even given the toyota budget build such engine and the car as a complete package to go with it ? any F1 teams here.

Lets look at the base car vs the end result ! apart from the body panels is there anything that links any part to the production model. Are people that stupid they think there pos corolla is a rally winning vehicle. Does anyone see a corolla at a set of lights smoking away at idle due to slipper rings ? you couldnt even see the rear of those rally cars at stage start by the end of events.

It really makes no logical sence to run these car when the figure head WRC cars and group N are still using factory turbocharged cars that produce the same outputs restricted as mega dollar 2000cc engines with far more reliability for less cost.

Your right with tarmac rallying as there are alot of ex supercar/touring car people employed building these car with large budgets now like ralliart aus, maybe its due to the cars being still based on road cars you can buy. It might offer better marketing advantages over dirt. Who in the masses drives a car on dirt mostly anyway.

Stewart Reid and Glen Raymond there ex Bate motorsport car so your point there was ? and why would any manufacture want to build a car with a engine from someone else ? A Hyundai with evo x running gear just shows that yanks dont know shit about rallying like any other form of motorsport not born there. If Hyundai thought it might be worth while investing wouldnt they just employ a company to build them a car around there factory one like they outsource making there road cars handle to porsche. They maybe see rally in the USA not worth the cost for the return over even drift there.

To insult Sexy about his views on rallying is really a laugh his family have been involved in the sport maybe before you where born. I seems alot of people here alos share the view that the toyota s2000 was only good for toyota and not the sport. Anyone remember when Bates tryed commentating on the WRC ? or was it a ARC round and they canned him after one telecast ? that had to be the most boring program of rallying in Australian history.

gslrallysport
27th February 2009, 10:31 AM
Would a N/a 2000cc engine with 280hp at 8500rpm with its restrictor cost alot more than a restricted turbo engine that has the power output already in stock form ?
Um, what point are you trying to get across here? That you don't like S2000? Pretty sure I've been talking about Group N(P) the whole time... which is the highlighted part of your above comment...


Lets look at the base car vs the end result ! apart from the body panels is there anything that links any part to the production model.
I dunno, why you don't you ask Australia's largest, most publicized, most followed, most televised, most sponsored and most attended motorsport championship, and come back to me with how many parts a VE Taxi shares with a VE HRT? I personally hate the V8's with a passion, but credit where credit's due, it's a turd well polished.


It really makes no logical sence to run these car when the figure head WRC cars and group N are still using factory turbocharged cars that produce the same outputs restricted as mega dollar 2000cc engines with far more reliability for less cost.
A WRC car cheaper than what??? A Bugatti Veyron... :rolleyes:

You've got a problem with S2000, which again, wasn't what I was talking about, but that's for the heads up. And you might like to check the entry lists for WRC events a bit more regularly (say since 2007), because S2000 car have been there for a while mate... And there's currently an S2000 car leading the production car world rally championship:
http://wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=901&id=4022&desc=Sandell%20takes%20historic%20P-WRC%20win
So quick, you'd better ring up the FIA ask how can an S2000 car be winning a championship it's not involved with...

By your reasoning we should only be able to rally WRXs and EVOs. I'm not a massive fan of S2000, primarily because the gearbox alone costs more than a factory WRX, but last time I checked there were over 10 different manufacturers with FIA homologated S2000 cars. If you've been following the IRC (which by your ignorance towards S2000 cars in the WRC I highly doubt) you'll see what exciting rallying that can produce.


Stewart Reid and Glen Raymond there ex Bate motorsport car so your point there was ?
The comment was "great news for privateers with normal cars", which is hard to swallow when two of the leading privateers are running Group N(P) cars. Indeed for the last two years it has ONLY been privateers running Group N(P) cars.


and why would any manufacture want to build a car with a engine from someone else ? A Hyundai with evo x running gear just shows that yanks dont know shit about rallying like any other form of motorsport not born there.
The Tiburon that Hyundai rally in America has a Hyundai motor, it's bolted up to an evo6 box and transfer case, and a WRX rear subframe and diff. Marketing say it has Sante Fe running gear, and the public are none the wiser. And they have sales figures to prove it.

What they did is absolutely no different (and infact, about a quater of the price) to building an FIA S2000 car, using Sadev gearbox, transfer case and rear diff. Doesn't matter whether it's mitsubshi or sadev, the end result is the same, and the former option is far and away cheaper, and a known quantity.

And you might like to have a a look at participation levels, spectator numbers, and level of competitiveness of Rally America before you start defending our piss ant ARC. I personally am not a big America fan, but the one thing I do have utter respect for is Rally America, and the way that championship is run, not least of which was getting it to the X Games, and pulling a drawcard like Colin McCrae. But given I don't think you've even heard of the aforementioned IRC, I doubt very much that you actually have any idea of the credentials of Rally America.


To insult Sexy about his views on rallying is really a laugh his family have been involved in the sport maybe before you where born.
I wasn't insulting him, but saying that every rally person shares his view is BS, because that's simply not the case...


I seems alot of people here alos share the view that the toyota s2000 was only good for toyota and not the sport.
As do I to some degree. They built a car with a gearbox alone that costs more than most group N cars do from the factory... what's your point? No where did I ever say anything about S2000 being good or bad.

You've quoted something I said about Group N(P), and wasted a 6 paragraph post talking about S2000... :rolleyes:

carbonae86
27th February 2009, 05:46 PM
Um, what point are you trying to get across here? That you don't like S2000? Pretty sure I've been talking about Group N(P) the whole time... which is the highlighted part of your above comment...


Last time i checked Group N{P} the {P} stood for prototype and S2000 vehicles are just that , maybe thats why the rules since 2002 have stated that you only have to build one car. My comment is about cost for poweroutput regardless of class. But you going to have to be a stupid to not want to build a 2000cc with a 64mm throttle vs a 34mm restrictor as one will have maybe as much as 333hp since that has been reached vs 313hp.



I dunno, why you don't you ask Australia's largest, most publicized, most followed, most televised, most sponsored and most attended motorsport championship, and come back to me with how many parts a VE Taxi shares with a VE HRT? I personally hate the V8's with a passion, but credit where credit's due, it's a turd well polished.

Funny how a class where the vehicles are governed to be the same in performance makes the sport grow ! no matter if everybody dislikes the dated technologue its entertainment and thats what most people watch sport for.



A WRC car cheaper than what??? A Bugatti Veyron... :rolleyes:


Think apples to oranges ! you maybe should inform people of the real costs and they can make up there own mind if rallying is worth it and why maybe so many manufactures have dropped it quick smart. Building only one or two cars is never going to be cheap and thats why in history S2000 is going to fail.
FIA CAMS rules on cost of kit vehicle is $120.000 in kit form or $150.000 complete. Now is really strange that before we even get into development cost you have the two ex borring as bat shit bates cars selling for more than the CAMS rules second hand.
Now comes the real cost for a manufacture to make one of these cars. In the WRC Peugeot started to design a S2000 car they stopped development after spending over $355.000aud without so much as a part built ! You can buy a BMW WTCC for $500.000 so how much would the finished price been for a S22000 pug :worried:.



You've got a problem with S2000, which again, wasn't what I was talking about, but that's for the heads up. And you might like to check the entry lists for WRC events a bit more regularly (say since 2007), because S2000 car have been there for a while mate... And there's currently an S2000 car leading the production car world rally championship:
http://wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=901&id=4022&desc=Sandell%20takes%20historic%20P-WRC%20win
So quick, you'd better ring up the FIA ask how can an S2000 car be winning a championship it's not involved with...

What ? that really makes no sence ! heads up ? that your comparing a prototype vehicle in class N{P} to a production group N car. It doesnt take the FIA to work out that a car costing twice in value better be faster and winning. And look at the times there only seconds quicker



By your reasoning we should only be able to rally WRXs and EVOs. I'm not a massive fan of S2000, primarily because the gearbox alone costs more than a factory WRX, but last time I checked there were over 10 different manufacturers with FIA homologated S2000 cars. If you've been following the IRC (which by your ignorance towards S2000 cars in the WRC I highly doubt) you'll see what exciting rallying that can produce.

Man your contradicting yourself , one second defending S2000 one second saying your not a fan. No ignorance is needed just look at the passed S1600 class where the vehicle where going to cost $220.000+aud and where closer to $355.000 and real cost must have been close to that with cars selling second hand for $255.000. Not to even start about engine wear at 10.000rpm.



The comment was "great news for privateers with normal cars", which is hard to swallow when two of the leading privateers are running Group N(P) cars. Indeed for the last two years it has ONLY been privateers running Group N(P) cars.

And ? hard to swallow that its pointless winning any race that only you can win



The Tiburon that Hyundai rally in America has a Hyundai motor, it's bolted up to an evo6 box and transfer case, and a WRX rear subframe and diff. Marketing say it has Sante Fe running gear, and the public are none the wiser. And they have sales figures to prove it.

What they did is absolutely no different (and infact, about a quater of the price) to building an FIA S2000 car, using Sadev gearbox, transfer case and rear diff. Doesn't matter whether it's mitsubshi or sadev, the end result is the same, and the former option is far and away cheaper, and a known quantity..

Maybe there figures have more to do with the car ? its price ? performance ? And since this is a Toyota site what are the people going to buy say a Celica



And you might like to have a a look at participation levels, spectator numbers, and level of competitiveness of Rally America before you start defending our piss ant ARC. I personally am not a big America fan, but the one thing I do have utter respect for is Rally America, and the way that championship is run, not least of which was getting it to the X Games, and pulling a drawcard like Colin McCrae. But given I don't think you've even heard of the aforementioned IRC, I doubt very much that you actually have any idea of the credentials of Rally America.

I am getting as bored as watching bates now hmmm what the population of USA vs Australia . Maybe chart up the figures vs participation in percentage for all of us people with no idea of credentials of may not care due to living in Australia not USA.



I wasn't insulting him, but saying that every rally person shares his view is BS, because that's simply not the case...

There doesnt seem to be alot of support for your views does there
i am off to watch bates on TV hopefully he puts me so off the ARC that i dont miss a single WRC this year.

gslrallysport
27th February 2009, 06:08 PM
You're having a laugh aren't ya??? Look, there's some very ignorant comments in there, and shows what a blatant lack of understanding you have of what you're talking about. I haven't got time to continue to argue with an amature, but here's a couple of standout winners...


Last time i checked Group N{P} the {P} stood for prototype and S2000 vehicles are just that
You seriously have got no idea what you're talking about do you? If you honestly beleive that a S2000 car is a Group N(P) then there's no point in arguing with you because you clearly have no idea. The two are nothing alike, are worlds apart technically, one is a worldwide formula sanctioned by the FIA, whilst the other is a set of regs that CAMS made themselves for Australia only...


that your comparing a prototype vehicle in class N{P} to a production group N car.
Seriously, WTF are you talking about??? I was clearly talking about the WRC there and a Group N(P) car HAS NEVER and WILL NEVER be allowed to compete in an international rally, let alone the WRC. The Toyota Group N(P) Corollas weren't even allowed to run in Rally of Canberra in the APRC, so where you have this idea that they're running in the WRC is beyond me mate...


And ? hard to swallow that its pointless winning any race that only you can win
Again, WTF? A Group N(P) car is eligible for the ARC, as is an S2000, and a production Group N(P).

You need to seriously figure out what the difference is between an S2000, and a Group N(P), because right now trying to tell me they're the same thing, which is like saying that a GTP car is a V8 Supercar, it lacks any sort of basic understanding of technical regulations...


FIA CAMS rules on cost of kit vehicle is $120.000 in kit form or $150.000 complete
Nice to see you've managed to google the Group N(P) regs, then but then start talking about the Pug S2000? Where the connection there?

When you can't even talk about the same car in a coherent paragraph, how do you expect me to take anything you're saying seriously?


S2000 is going to fail. FIA CAMS rules on cost of kit vehicle is $120.000 in kit form or $150.000 complete.
Ok, when you find where the FIA says that you have to build an S2000 car for less than $150,000 complete, I'll ring Nick (webmaster), ask him to ban me from this forum, keep my remaining sponsorship dollars, and never ever return to annoy you...

carbonae86
27th February 2009, 08:22 PM
You're having a laugh aren't ya??? Look, there's some very ignorant comments in there, and shows what a blatant lack of understanding you have of what you're talking about. I haven't got time to continue to argue with an amature, but here's a couple of standout winners...


This is a real laugh you think someone you dont know is a amature :wub: this is so boring for me



You seriously have got no idea what you're talking about do you? If you honestly beleive that a S2000 car is a Group N(P) then there's no point in arguing with you because you clearly have no idea. The two are nothing alike, are worlds apart technically, one is a worldwide formula sanctioned by the FIA, whilst the other is a set of regs that CAMS made themselves for Australia only...

And where have i stated that they are the same thing , read it again !!!

"Last time i checked Group N{P} the {P} stood for prototype and S2000 vehicles are just that , maybe thats why the rules since 2002 have stated that you only have to build one car."

My comment is about cost for poweroutput regardless of class

Here are classes if you cannot remember them

Class N1 – Group N up to and including 1400cc
Class N2 - Group N over 1400cc, up to and including 1600cc
Class N3 - Group N over 1600cc, up to and including 2000cc
Class N4 - Group N over 2000cc [including N(P) and Super 2000]

Wow wouldnt that class S2000 and N{P} in group N :shocked:even tho my comments where about what the P stood for :peek: CAMS have just named it N{P} so they feel special that they can make some rules to which someone has to comply. Kennel prowed there are even if the rules are just copyied from FIA. They can sugar coat the naming and think its relating it to production vehicles but its there in print there the same RULES but COST aren't close to production based vehicles.



Seriously, WTF are you talking about??? I was clearly talking about the WRC there and a Group N(P) car HAS NEVER and WILL NEVER be allowed to compete in an international rally, let alone the WRC. The Toyota Group N(P) Corollas weren't even allowed to run in Rally of Canberra in the APRC, so where you have this idea that they're running in the WRC is beyond me mate..

Since the ARC rules for N{P} cars { and we will get to that soon :DD } are the same for S2000 cars wouldnt that mean N{P} cars as far as rules are concened are in WRC , IT THE SAME RULES :pinchme: Only rules change are between N/A and turbo ie restrictor size etc.

Here is the FIA rules for S2000

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/E1999939AD85DCBCC125751D0052A020/$FILE/254A%20(09-10)-121208.pdf

Here are the ARC rules

http://www.rally.com.au/data/www.rally.com.au/data/2009%20ARC%20Sporting%20Regs%20V1.pdf



Again, WTF? A Group N(P) car is eligible for the ARC, as is an S2000, and a production Group N(P).

You need to seriously figure out what the difference is between an S2000, and a Group N(P), because right now trying to tell me they're the same thing, which is like saying that a GTP car is a V8 Supercar, it lacks any sort of basic understanding of technical regulations...

We where talking about the Toyota Corolla here even Toyota calls them S2000cars even if CAMS ARC whoever call them group N{P} or groups them as just that . You need to maybe read the regulations i just posted and tell us the differences then8|

http://www.pressroom.com.au/press_kit_detail.asp?clientID=24&navSectionID=14&categoryID=1000&kitID=253



Nice to see you've managed to google the Group N(P) regs, then but then start talking about the Pug S2000? Where the connection there?]

When you can't even talk about the same car in a coherent paragraph, how do you expect me to take anything you're saying seriously?[/QUOTE]

The information has nothing to do with CAMS silly naming or class rules ,but it gives people the facts of the cost of what a 2000CC group N{P} car would cost. Since you can read you would have already found the rules the same , so same car for the third time.



Ok, when you find where the FIA says that you have to build an S2000 car for less than $150,000 complete, I'll ring Nick (webmaster), ask him to ban me from this forum, keep my remaining sponsorship dollars, and never ever return to annoy you... Interesting theory considering the control Sadev gearbox alone is worth $75k... good luck with that!!!

again " FIA CAMS rules on cost of kit vehicle is $120.000 in kit form or $150.000 complete "

Well you really dont have to ring him as i sure he can read the following

http://www.cams.com.au/bulletins/B02-70%20Rally%20-%20Group%20N(P)%20Regulations.pdf

Section 5.1.5 :DD bye bye

And since its the same costing rule for all cars in that class

http://www.pressroom.com.au/docs/toy/2007ToyMSspecs.pdf

Theres the transmission you are going on about all the time , and the rule is $120-$150G so there is no point in trying to argue the group N{P}/s2000 whatever is cheap . It would cost more than any other teams would have spent in a years of racing. Maybe thats why it did F/A for the sport and the costs are bullshit. They really should get it banned :oh: whilst on the subject:DD

Basically when could you buy a 280hp 2000cc 4x4 corolla or in Australia a 4x4 turbo ? never so unless your brain dead the formula group N{P} S2000 or whatever you want to rename it is a complete waste of time as it lacks manufactures.

Nick pm me if you need a few me to contact a few more sponsors that sell the same products as the one now leaving the site ;)

gslrallysport
27th February 2009, 09:14 PM
http://www.cams.com.au/bulletins/B02-70%20Rally%20-%20Group%20N(P)%20Regulations.pdf

Section 5.1.5 :DD bye bye
Um, for the last time, that's the Group N(P), nothing to do with S2000... do you want to start quoting relevant documents, rather than just picking and choosing articles at random that have got no relevance to the argument you're trying to put across...

S2000 IS NOT a part of Group N(P). That fact alone, other than any other crap you've posted, has lost you all credibility. Why you keep defending that fact, I'm at arm's length to figure out...


Toyota calls them S2000cars even if CAMS ARC whoever call them group N{P}
No, Toyota calls a S2000, a S2000, as so does CAMS. Toyota calls a Group N(P), a Group N(P), and so does CAMS. You've got issues... If you think that because both fall under N4 that all the same rules apply you've got some pretty basic knowledge gaps...

Again, when you can find ANYWHERE that specifically says that a S2000 car can't cost more than $150,000AUD, I'll happily commit to my word. But considering the offical FIA (which as I'm sure you're aware CAMS runs under) document says they can't cost more than €168,000 (about $372,000AUD) I think you're going to have a hard time there sunshine...

carbonae86
27th February 2009, 09:41 PM
http://www.cams.com.au/bulletins/B02...egulations.pdf

For the last time it states that vehicle in that class being N4 have that max cost regardless of what class they fall into under. Meaning they can be a
S2000 or group N{P} car they are both capped at $150,000AUD . FIA CAMS RULES

And why dont you read the FIA S2000reg and CAMS ARC rules again there the regulations :)) are you tell me they have writen the rules incorrectly and there not the same :DD

Its there in black and white so why you bother to try to insult me fool
Everybody has the information and they can see for themself now thats why the information was linked , not because of the complete lack or lazyness of you to pull yourself out to the crap.

Dont worry i forgot to pop in at the rally of melbourne headquaters bayswater today to see if they had any information since i was across the road at ABC Mandrell { if anyone wants cheap alloy mandrell intercooler bends in Melbourne $10 per bend cash } Maybe i will just get the head ARC chief scutineer a call , give him your number sunshine and he can explain how the rule 5.1.5 applies. Its not like i know dont know him after working with him for years. So i guess you have till monday to start packing you shit up then :jdmsmile:

carbonae86
28th February 2009, 10:38 AM
I was emailed this link last night by a rally driver active on bmsc

http://www.bmsc.com.au/forums/australian-rallying-discussion/19258-toyota-out.html

Seems :thumbdown: on your idea of EVOXTIBS isnt very well received :DD and the general consensus is that you still dont understand the cost involved Less than $150g in your mind is going to build rally winner :)) thankfully people who rally seem to think thats a joke.

I would get someone to link this thread on bmsc but i wouldnt want COST you ebay sales there :soldier:

Ow btw you still havent got replied to my PM with you phone number ? i guess they can just call your 1800number and ask for Greg ?

carbonae86
11th March 2009, 11:01 AM
Well after a very indepth chat to CAMS offical Cambell Andrea is seem that the rules are 100% as there writen Greg. If you read section 4 and 5 it's all there. Just one thing really remain's and that is the fact that you might want to bring up for a discussion on your rally forum. How do you win a Australian Rally Championship {with a vehicle that was and never is now that there gone} that hasn't passed homologation ? It was undergoing this whilst competing in ARC ? how close is this to just cheating ? how could this be allowed ? was it just slipping cash into the right people's pockets like ED's team seem to think subaru where doing with nearly ever CAMS offical driving a STI when they where winning.

Well basically i am right that they amount a car costs is capped as far in that bit of paper that doesn't seem to be worth much in light of it standing for jackshit. And also as it's writen only a manufacture can build the vehicle's so borring bate might have built them but they would have had to be put forward by Toyota. Even with there seeming to be no point as they could still be entered / race / win without passing. You wouldn't see this even happening at club level ! but it just show you what spending more cash than everybody else can do.