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View Full Version : s13 front coilovers into 86/*e7*



slide86
20th December 2008, 05:25 PM
you will require the following parts


s13 front coilovers

ae86 camber tops

s13 front brakes complete with hub arrangement can use CA or SR

S13 LCA's.

RA60 series rackends

pair of rack boots

Bluebird TRX tierod ends. (model 910, series 1, 2 or 3)

8 nissan mag wheel nuts (as wheel studs have different thread)

installation is self explanitory pull your old s*** out, installation is the opposite. fit the 86 cambertops to the s13 coilover and fit to strut towers. redrill the crossmember hole that the LCA bolts to, to 13mm size as the sprinter LCA bolt is smaller in diameter. the LCA can move around if the bolt doesn't "fill" the crush tube in the bush. so i highly recommend you use the S13 bolt and drill the mount hole on the crossmember out, it's piss easy anyway.

fit up the lower control arm, and bolt on the hub complete with brakes, then bolt the hub to the coilovers.

you must change the rack ends to *A6* series ones (MA61, RA60, SA63 etc) or not enough thread goes into the tierod, effectively decreasing its strength quite dramatically EDIT: after wheel alignment this wasn't as bad as first expected. you can use the 86 tierod ends but the taper is slightly different so there will be play = noise. *A6* series and RA40 tierod ends are the ones to use.

installing the new rack ends is easy enough, remove your old rack boots and bend back the locking tabs where the rack joins the rackends. undo the 86 ones and replace with th *A6* ones. i used loctite on the threads as i damaged my lock washers so couldn't refit them.

fit up some new rack boots (FYI i used repco universal rack boots didn't have to trim them or anything and they were $14 ea) thread your tierods on as far as they will go, bolt them up to your steering arm on the hub.

you will have to redrill the holes for castor rods if you use a S13 arm, not a big deal though. just line the castor rod up with the arm mark your holes and drill away.

by now everything should be about right, use the s13 brake hoses they will thread into the 86 solid line fine. if you choose to run CA brakes you can keep the stock 86 13/16ths master cylinder and you are restricted to a rim size of no less than 14 inches. if you want to run SR brakes you are limited to 15 inch wheels and need to upgrade to a 15/16ths master cylinder, you can use S13, R32,33 or 34 abs masters (abs masters only have 2 ports) you will have to change solid brake lines to suit this master. bleed it all throw some rims on using nissan wheel nuts as the thread is different to toyota, and drop it. set your heights (if adjustable height coilovers are used) and get a wheel alignment.

you have gained

front height adjustablity
more steering lock
bigger vented brakes
track increase (est 20-30mm per side)


it's a cost efective option if you don't mind going nissan, i feel a lot of hachi drivers are purists though and like to stick with the toyota bloodline. so you don't see it done that often.

fantapants
21st December 2008, 09:19 AM
handy addition.....


aw11 rack ends and standard s13 tie rod ends provide a much nicer fit for the steering end :)

stanzzza
21st December 2008, 11:12 AM
s13 front ftw

had it in both my hachis and swear by it.

hugh
23rd December 2008, 10:43 AM
fantapants...might want to edit that to AW11, just in case people get it confused with ae111

45aken
2nd March 2009, 01:55 AM
AW11 rack ends and s13 rod ends are for the absolute win.
fits in both end perfect +ability for aftermarket pillowball tie rod ends if you keep breaking them on the ripple strips.

fantapants
2nd March 2009, 09:06 AM
my bad lol :)

ae86-13b
20th March 2009, 10:06 PM
hi guys i used s15 coilovers and the ride hights is quite low on the highest ajustment is this because s13 and s15 are fully diffrent.

fantapants
20th March 2009, 10:16 PM
i think s15 are actually longer. all the nissan stuff is quite low, but if you have base adjust it is doable... or just run crazy low lol

fantapants
20th March 2009, 10:35 PM
coilovers or standard.

i thought the s13 standard struts were the shortest and the s14 and s15 were the same, and a bit longer. Coilovers are identical acros the range in terms of length and stroke due to the adjustment inherant :)

ae86-13b
21st March 2009, 04:01 PM
thanks for your help guys i didnt have thwe tool to adjust the hight when i took for drive its like massivly way to low exhaust scrapping every bump. must get a higher wheel

marvis
21st March 2009, 07:59 PM
Post a picture man.

ae86-13b
22nd March 2009, 03:51 PM
look how low its stupid how low it is. its not drivable dont no what to do?

45aken
22nd March 2009, 04:10 PM
Dude you have a good 3 inches you can raise it up by.
if you dont have the C spanners, the take out the coilover (you can do it in the car if you want, just easier taking it out)
get a large flat head screw driver, put a rag around the end of it (only 1 or 2 folds) the then you'll have to press the end into the "steps" in the bottom rings and use a hammer to screw it down (this will unlock the seat).
the use the screwdriver to tap the top seat up about 2 inches or so.
and screw the lock ring back up and into the spring seat.

It helps ALOT if you clean out the thread with a wire brush and wd40.

ae86-13b
22nd March 2009, 04:44 PM
3more inches no way man no way i no how to raise coilovers up even when the car is jacked up on the hoist the wheel will only sag proberble 1 more inch. so confused

45aken
22nd March 2009, 05:17 PM
Then raise it up 1". The spring seat is sitting quite low on the thread.
are the springs captive when it jacked up?
the s13 gear it low but even without adjustable bottom mounts you should still have it driveable.

FAST EDDIE
22nd March 2009, 06:25 PM
Then raise it up 1". The spring seat is sitting quite low on the thread.
are the springs captive when it jacked up?
the s13 gear it low but even without adjustable bottom mounts you should still have it driveable.

i had some non base height adjustable coils in my car and had same height issues was realy low, the shocks are just short stroke and realy need height adjutable coils so the shocks dont max out on the top. my height adjustable hsd coils are wound right up and am only happy with the height now!!!

also instead of the old toyota junk tie rod ends i would sujest using Buddy Parts motorsport tie rod ends they are awesomeness!!!

ae86-13b
22nd March 2009, 07:11 PM
thats what i think it is the shockers are to short stroke. there maxing out i got apexi coilovers do you guys thinnk this is the problem

fantapants
22nd March 2009, 07:36 PM
if you dont have base adjustable it will not work well. you can not raise the car much just using the spring perch and still have any sort of reasonable droop.

that being said, yours isnt any lower than mine i think and i got a decent droop - springs arnt captive though :( and the stroke is ok :) BUT mine are BASE ADJUSTABLE ... thats the common theme :)

FAST EDDIE
22nd March 2009, 08:21 PM
oh and by the pic im guessing those are 17s whick will have overall bigger diameter than 15s

45aken
23rd March 2009, 12:19 AM
Mine don't have an adjustable base, and it's a useable height.
How high is your car off the ground?
It doesn't look crazy low.

fantapants
23rd March 2009, 11:10 AM
yeah different brands have different length strut housings.

if you were asking me.. i dont think you were :) mine 93mm to the bottom of the sill behind the front wheel.

ae86-13b
24th March 2009, 06:11 PM
hey yo those are 15inch wheels in the picstures. i cant even get my 16s on my car now its that low.

ae86-13b
24th March 2009, 06:12 PM
aslo my exhaust sits about 20mm of the ground

hey 45aken can you post up pics or your front end thanks

45aken
29th March 2009, 02:09 AM
Man I dont have any with the wheels off, but here is a height example.
I could probably go up another inch, and down 2 from this height.

And there 15" wheels with 195/50's

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/6/1/8/7805.jpg

AE86R
29th March 2009, 05:02 AM
sprinter666 will like this thread

stx-16
19th November 2009, 02:14 PM
are s13 front brakes and hub and front coilovers the same as 180 front brakes and hub and front coilovers??

keiichi
19th November 2009, 04:15 PM
are s13 front brakes and hub and front coilovers the same as 180 front brakes and hub and front coilovers??

yep.

the difference you will only find is that if either had a ca18 or sr20 engine - sr20 brakes are bigger.

stx-16
23rd November 2009, 10:12 AM
what are the smallest rims that will fit over the sr20 and ca18 brakes?
i really really dont want to go bigger then 15" and i kinda dont want to go 15" but if i have to i guess i will

fantapants
23rd November 2009, 10:58 AM
ca 14s fit fine

sr 15s fit fine

Matt-AE86
23rd November 2009, 09:19 PM
Don't do it. that is all.

fantapants
23rd November 2009, 09:52 PM
lol...

stx-16
24th November 2009, 02:21 PM
ok well 14s are just fine for me thank you

sundee
21st December 2009, 09:01 PM
my R32 calipers fit easily under 15's - i reckon u could go 14's with them

J0RD0
27th March 2010, 02:23 PM
has anyone used or looked into using S14 knuckles for this conversion as im going r33 disc's and brakes. Doesnt look like the s14 hubs fit the s13 knuckles which i was told they do.

ae71
27th March 2010, 04:04 PM
im going 5 stud with r33 brakes. everyone says s14 hubs will fit.

if they dont ill be planning to murder NS.com

J0RD0
27th March 2010, 06:21 PM
hmmm funny cause thats where i got my info from and they dont fit, the wheel bearing on the s14 hubs is a few mm oversize for the s13 but i just used the s14 knuckles r33 calipers and rotors and s13 coilovers and it all fit fine . . . so far

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/1/5/0/40636.jpg

evil86
28th March 2010, 11:26 PM
gezz. i got s13 sr20det setup and i think its over kill. i dont know what lca i got but im using ae86 inner rack end and ra40 outers. works fine

ke70dave
29th March 2010, 09:52 AM
gezz. i got s13 sr20det setup and i think its over kill. i dont know what lca i got but im using ae86 inner rack end and ra40 outers. works fine

so your using ra40 tie rod ends?

just have to make sure that the taper for the steering arm is the same.

i was under the impression that you had to use TRX bludbird tie rod ends in order for it to fit properly. i have trx ones in my car and they fit good.

you didnt notice the ra40 not fitting properly?

evil86
29th March 2010, 10:13 AM
im pretty sure. ae86 innter rack with ra40 tie rod ends. the tie rod ends and is a funny bent arm. ill try to take pic when i have time

marvis
29th March 2010, 01:45 PM
That will be bluebird then.

Sam-Q
3rd April 2010, 12:20 AM
should we have a mention to the downsides to this change in suspension? like what it does to your geometry

lovemy86
3rd April 2010, 10:27 PM
should we have a mention to the downsides to this change in suspension? like what it does to your geometry

thats what i want to know about!! i like the ease of this with the added advantage of big brake upgrade but, how badly does it mess with eveything else? i'm not a drifter, this mod might be great for drift but, might not be what i'm after.

Sam-Q
3rd April 2010, 10:38 PM
I never really looked into it much, but I want to find out, when I do I will post on here.

fantapants
3rd April 2010, 11:50 PM
bump stear increased a little, not pover;ly much. the only real downside i have found has been an increase in effort at lock... this can be sorted a few different ways.

all in all not a terrible idea like plenty here are keen to say it is :)

J0RD0
24th April 2010, 09:05 AM
well before i proceed i need some opinions.

I know alot of people reading the title would have a confused look on there face but just hear me out first

Ok well doing the evorolla project, it needs good suspension and must have very good brakes as i plan on getting into some track work, not too seriously but you can never have enough brakes. This is why im very keen on sticking with my R33 front brake setup and 5 stud conversion all round using a Hilux rear end (staying 5 stud also) So alot of people are against the s13 front gear for reason's i can understand But the main problems i can see for this is that the aftermarket coilover's are simply way too low and the lca's are too long.

So if i were to use a coilover kit and make them so they were alot higher than the aftermarket stuff and get some adjustable or even shorten the lca's would this still be such a bad direction to go??? It may seem like alot of effort but the main reason i want to do it this way is to keep my brakes ive already got becuase i cant see any other brake upgrade that pleases the eye and can be done on my budget.

Not having ever done a coilover kit before and not knowing where to start my next question if no one can point out a serious fault in this proposition is how would i work out the height i need to mount the sleeve's to be able to achieve legal height for my car and have the adjustibility to go quite low for drift/track days.

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/1/5/0/42556.jpg

Also anything anyone can point out the do' and dont's when making your own coilover kit would be helpful to me and appreciated.

Sam-Q
24th April 2010, 09:19 AM
J0RD0 I have moved the post from your thread into here to keep most of the S13 front end questions in one place

sam2306
7th June 2010, 01:45 PM
i was wandering what steering arms you use if its going on an ae71

ke70dave
7th June 2010, 01:50 PM
s13's dont have steering arms as such.

the hub has the steering arms built in.

if anyone is interested i will have a complete s13 setup for sale soon. just need to do a few exams and install my 86 gear.

can test drive if they want before i put 86 stuff in.

biggo
18th June 2010, 08:42 AM
well before i proceed i need some opinions.

I know alot of people reading the title would have a confused look on there face but just hear me out first

Ok well doing the evorolla project, it needs good suspension and must have very good brakes as i plan on getting into some track work, not too seriously but you can never have enough brakes. This is why im very keen on sticking with my R33 front brake setup and 5 stud conversion all round using a Hilux rear end (staying 5 stud also) So alot of people are against the s13 front gear for reason's i can understand But the main problems i can see for this is that the aftermarket coilover's are simply way too low and the lca's are too long.

So if i were to use a coilover kit and make them so they were alot higher than the aftermarket stuff and get some adjustable or even shorten the lca's would this still be such a bad direction to go??? It may seem like alot of effort but the main reason i want to do it this way is to keep my brakes ive already got becuase i cant see any other brake upgrade that pleases the eye and can be done on my budget.

Not having ever done a coilover kit before and not knowing where to start my next question if no one can point out a serious fault in this proposition is how would i work out the height i need to mount the sleeve's to be able to achieve legal height for my car and have the adjustibility to go quite low for drift/track days.

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/1/5/0/42556.jpg

Also anything anyone can point out the do' and dont's when making your own coilover kit would be helpful to me and appreciated.

There seems to be a problem with your planning. I am fairly certain you CANNOT buy S13 inserts by them selves. They come as a complete strut.

However, i did look into it a bit when i needed new inserts for my s13 coilovers. The best i found was that if i added another 15mm somewhere in the strut tube i could fit some ae92/st185 shocks in there. That project is still in the shed somewhere tho.

evil86
18th June 2010, 08:51 AM
well before i proceed i need some opinions.

I know alot of people reading the title would have a confused look on there face but just hear me out first

Ok well doing the evorolla project, it needs good suspension and must have very good brakes as i plan on getting into some track work, not too seriously but you can never have enough brakes. This is why im very keen on sticking with my R33 front brake setup and 5 stud conversion all round using a Hilux rear end (staying 5 stud also) So alot of people are against the s13 front gear for reason's i can understand But the main problems i can see for this is that the aftermarket coilover's are simply way too low and the lca's are too long.

So if i were to use a coilover kit and make them so they were alot higher than the aftermarket stuff and get some adjustable or even shorten the lca's would this still be such a bad direction to go??? It may seem like alot of effort but the main reason i want to do it this way is to keep my brakes ive already got becuase i cant see any other brake upgrade that pleases the eye and can be done on my budget.

Not having ever done a coilover kit before and not knowing where to start my next question if no one can point out a serious fault in this proposition is how would i work out the height i need to mount the sleeve's to be able to achieve legal height for my car and have the adjustibility to go quite low for drift/track days.

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/1/5/0/42556.jpg

Also anything anyone can point out the do' and dont's when making your own coilover kit would be helpful to me and appreciated.

i personally think its easier n cheaper to buy s13 front coilovers as biggo stated im sure you cant buy shocks seperate

ke70dave
18th June 2010, 09:23 AM
only some coilovers are too short.

if you get based adjustable it can be a good length.

my car sits fairly low (as can be seen in my picture) and when i jack up the front of the car, the wheels drop around 80-100mm, which is a fair amount. and the coilovers are only set to about 1/3 their height, so i can make the car much much higher if i want to.

im actually trying to sell my s13 front end if anyone is keen, CA slotted rotors, with bridgestone coilovers (AGX kyb insert) on 8kg springs.

and as for LCA, i belive r31 is a good option, though i think there is some MX** (cresida thing perhaps) that fits as well? i recall seeing it on toymods a while ago.

fantapants
18th June 2010, 11:59 AM
if you use a high offset wheel like the suspension design was aimed at you get a much better situation

even at the worst s13 is doable and if you think it through it can be a good effective setup.

didnt michelmore use trd inserts in his s13 strut and make the coilover that way? same as toyota guys?

imo, the hsd i have work very well and the modded knuckles also remove the binding the system develops at full lock.

kaibeecee
18th June 2010, 03:14 PM
yeah people use 86 struts, with the ends cut off and a 'cap' welded on. its a long process, and you've still got to factor in the cost of inserts, so buying decent, base adjustable coilovers is sensible.

that being said, most of the problems can be solved by running a slightly shorter LCA, and of course BASE ADJUSTABLE COILOVERS.

i had ~60-80mm droop on my setup, and NEVER had an issue with bump steer, bind or anything.

keiichi
22nd June 2010, 08:38 PM
regarding what ke70dave said, mx62 is a good LCA to use... easier fitment (only one hole needs to filed out a bit), BUT it is longer then s13 by a smidgen.
I will be trying s13 this time, iirc, one of the holes on the crossmember mount needs to be drilled out a bit as the s13 lca bolts are tapered and ofcourse you need to drill one new hole for the castor rods.

n1k00
23rd July 2010, 01:20 PM
I know this is an old thread but have you guys done about the sway bar link as it isn't covered in this article

marvis
23rd July 2010, 02:14 PM
regarding what ke70dave said, mx62 is a good LCA to use... easier fitment (only one hole needs to filed out a bit), BUT it is longer then s13 by a smidgen.
I will be trying s13 this time, iirc, one of the holes on the crossmember mount needs to be drilled out a bit as the s13 lca bolts are tapered and ofcourse you need to drill one new hole for the castor rods.

MX is heaps long, I found S13 was pretty long also with 14 x 8 -10 185 60.

n1k00
23rd July 2010, 02:38 PM
Who cares the more track the merrier

blair
23rd July 2010, 03:00 PM
You kidding?

sundee
23rd July 2010, 03:54 PM
dave how come your going from S13 gear back to ae86?
might be good for these guys to know.
also - you want big brakes? You can use nissan stuff on Toyota gear, just do your research, ive done it.
You want lock? you can get more lock with toyota parts.
You want more track? - also easily done with toyota parts
Only +ve to S13 gear seems to be the cost - their is a thread on here that has a big discussion about S13 suspension and the Geometry fail that it gives when putting it into an 86.

and - NOT the more track the merrier. know its affects

keiichi
23rd July 2010, 05:18 PM
does anyone here think there is much difference to putting s13 gear into ae86's compared to say Coronas. I have done it twice on coronas both times awesome, seen it done on two other coronas both times awesome. done it on my ae71, was pretty crap, drove a friends kesev with ca18 and s13 gear... was shockingly bad.

Sam-Q
23rd July 2010, 11:26 PM
dont Coronas have a steering box or something?

keiichi
23rd July 2010, 11:31 PM
the xt130's do (pre '84).

you'll be surprised how similar rt142's are to ae86's. its basically a bigger 4 door version of the car.

kinda how cefiro is to s13 or something like that.

Sam-Q
23rd July 2010, 11:37 PM
do the rt141's and RT142's have a rack and pinion? because I might be able to use them instead of the donor KE70 setups for my TA22 rack and pinion conversions

keiichi
24th July 2010, 12:11 AM
yep they do.... they come in manual and power too. its st141 and rt142 btw, basically the same except engine/gearbox combo, plus some minor things like heavier front antirollbar at the front.

Sam-Q
24th July 2010, 12:50 AM
cool thanks

n1k00
24th July 2010, 06:15 AM
I think every body is ripping into the idea simply because we are on a toyota forum and from what I've seen around here you guys aren't to fond of nissans or at least cross breeding toyotas I'm using this setup my self and I love it ever since I put custom RCA's and custom hub knuckles in I wouldn't go back I'm also using the s13 crossmember rack and power steering setup which works a treat well much more suited to my driving style atleast

Sam-Q
24th July 2010, 10:23 AM
no, from what I have seen on here average people are looking for quick and easy to change parts from any source, hence the Pug brake idea. They are ripping into it for inferior result because of the fundamentally flawed design that when matched causes poor suspension geometry.

Using the S13 crossmember as well is different though, as I said earlier S13 struts means you need to run an S13 crossmember. Now how did you stup yourself getting a crazy amount of track increase?

n1k00
24th July 2010, 11:17 AM
I didn't stop the track increase I left it as is and I run s13 offset wheels and I like it the way it is it's a much different story when you don't use the s13 member and rack btw iyou dot have to swap the whole x member to use s13 struts depending on what car, this thread is talking about ae/ke corollas and sprinters which don't require a s13x member to run s13 struts if u want to stop the massive track Ur doing the wrong suspension conversion

keiichi
24th July 2010, 12:35 PM
no, from what I have seen on here average people are looking for quick and easy to change parts from any source, hence the Pug brake idea. They are ripping into it for inferior result because of the fundamentally flawed design that when matched causes poor suspension geometry.

Using the S13 crossmember as well is different though, as I said earlier S13 struts means you need to run an S13 crossmember. Now how did you stup yourself getting a crazy amount of track increase?

actually, im 99% sure using s13 crossmember means mounting the rack lower and even worse geometry.

there needs to be some technical information here about why s13 gears is bad not 'its poo'.

first thing i understand is that the tie rods point up.... and thats it. the lower control arm points up a bit too but errr so what.

the only downside i notice on the corona is (we can assume that the effect is more or less the same, i would drive an ae86 if they weren't such a rip), if you set the shox low and hook it into a bumpy corner you get a bit of bump steer, but even then, if you dont suck at driving and doesnt effect much.

good points, has made my cars feel 20x more stable and predictable, increased grip 10x (with good tyres), gained more lock, more castor, bigger brakes etc etc as already mentioned.

so, bump steer, buy this -

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/0/8/49084.jpg (http://img840.imageshack.us/i/12091760102ft2084p10302.jpg/)

full details here http://www.gtfactory.jp/cms/page.php?15

if you can weld then you get a very good deal there.

in one mod, increased lock even more, tougher lca's, leveled tie rods, less ackerman, quicker steering.

this is a drift mod though.

can we assume that s13 conversion is good for drift but bad for grip, i would somewhat agree with that.

fantapants
20th August 2010, 10:24 PM
they are the knuckles i have in my 86 keiichi.

they work really well in modifying the bumpsteer inherant in the design switch.

they also do ok at stopping the "wobble" at full lock s13 are known for.

Having had a few good conversations with people who are cleverer than me :) there is nothing inherant in the switch that cannot be gotten past without some simple modifications. If you think about it and go about it in a sensible fashion, it is a genuine option for good track, good brakes, and cheapish coilovers.

also the bumpstear issue isnt really that big. i think it was ke70dave who did all the calculations in the last forum, but it worked out and less than a couple of mm at full stroke. correct me if wrong :)

ke70dave
20th August 2010, 11:47 PM
also the bumpstear issue isnt really that big. i think it was ke70dave who did all the calculations in the last forum, but it worked out and less than a couple of mm at full stroke. correct me if wrong :)

correct, been there done that, negligable bump steer, i calculated it to be about 2mm toe change over the entire shock stroke, from full bump to full rebound. i bet the 86 gear has this as well anyway. i should do some measurements.

so i thought i would explain my experiences with the s13 gear and my new ae86 gear.

old setup (had it for 4yrs), ca18 brakes, base adjustable and adjustable damping coilovers, standard mastercylinder.

pros: cheapish, in a ke70 at least. epic lock out of the box.

cons: weird steering compared to the 86 gear,steering tends to tighten up the more lock you wind on (i didnt notice it untill i drove with proper 86 stuff). s13 coilovers that are suitable for grip in light cars are VERY difficult to find. went through ~3 sets trying to find different ones, bought a few different spring rates along the way. i ended up with an ok setup, but it was still a little stiff.

new setup: brand new everything, jap 86 calipers (rebuilt), vented discs, 40mm rca, kyb excel g inserts, 6kg springs (welded sleeve for coilovers) new brake lines, standard non-powersteering arms,

conss: bloody expensive. (though that could be because i bought everything brand new)

pros: steering is much more "normal" compared to s13 stuff, the effort required to turn from lock to lock is the same. a normal amount of track (though R31 arms have been sucessful in reducing track in s13 gear). its a much better setup compared to my s13 gear (though read on)

so i have used both a "complete" ae86 setup (RCAs, jap brakes, coilovers yada yada) as well as a proper s13 setup, in the same car, and have used them back to back, so i belive i can make some pretty reasonable comparisons between them both.

my oppinion is that both setups could be made to work well, its fairly obvios that the ae86 stuff works well straight out of the box since its based on standard equipment. but i still belive that the s13 gear could be made to work, but i did not like the "twitchyness" of the s13 gear. maybe if you bought some funky custom nuckels that reduced the steering speed of the s13 gear it might work well. though somepeople might like the REALLY quick steering. since driving around with standard 86 steering arms, although you do have to steer more, i find it easier to control, though i have not taken it through the twisty roads where the fast steering really was quite good. im a little hesitant to get the powersteering arms, anyone want to take me for a spin in a ke70/ae86 with power steering arms?

to me the main draw back of the s13 gear was the difficulty in finding decent coilovers suited to grip (soft dampers that suit soft springs). its easy to find damper/spring combos that suit drifting but i was after more grip and unless i either bought brand new coilovers or had a pair revalved to suit it was difficult to find a good setup. and of course you can get new coilovers or get them revalved, but its not cheap, and the main calling card to s13 gear is its apparent cheapness.

so to all the guys out there who plain out say "s13 gear is crap" i can say that is in fact not crap, it just needs a bit of work and planning to work well.

Sam-Q
20th August 2010, 11:58 PM
so ke70dave can you give a rough rundown on how you worked out the bumpsteer

ke70dave
21st August 2010, 12:23 AM
admitedly it was a fairly crude method, i would like to try another method, jsut have to work out if i can be stuffed or not....

what i did last time was took measurements of where the pivot points of the tie rod ball joint, rack end ball joint, and control arm ball joint and where it bolts to the chassis.

so i just took measurements of where the points where in relation to each other at static height.

i plotted these in a graphics program and proceded to scribe out the arcs that each of these items made throughout the chosen amount of bump.

ive just been through my photobucket album and the diagrams are still up!!

so here is the 50mm bump travel from static position
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/0/2/51455.jpg

the inner arc is the steering arm, and the outer arc is the LCA (note this is done with the steering straight ahead)

you can see that the inner arc (tie rod) moves horizontally by 4.6mm and the out arc (LCA) moves horizontally by 3.52.

so this to me sais that the wheel will tend to toe out by 1mm (so front wheels will toe out by 2mm total)

now onto the 100mm bump analysis.

same setup as before.

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/0/2/51456.jpg

this time the tie rod end moves horizontally by 16.08mm where as the LCA only moves 14.59, so 2mm of toe out?


hmmm thats a fair bit actually...

i wouldnt put to much faith in thenumbers them selves, but i think they are fairly ok.

this is the measurements i took.

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/0/2/51457.jpg

keep in mind i did this with the car in full road condition with the wheels on, so not the greatest measurements, and it was nearly 3yrs ago...

id like to try out a proper bump steer machine, or at least make something that straps to my wheel, and i take out the spring, and then move the wheel up and down in its travel and see if it turns.

also i have a feeling that this whole idea goes out the window when you start moving the steering rack around, since then the tie rod ball joint isnt in the same position which will change the arc in which it moves....

Hen may possibly be a nut
21st August 2010, 02:03 AM
Another way of measuring bump steer is to put the front on stands, then remove a spring from your strut and reinstall it.

Attach a laser pointer to your hub face and point it at a bit of paper. Then with a jack under your LCA move the strut from full droop to full compression. The dot from the laser pointer will obviously move up and down, but if it moves side to side it idicates bump steer.

From what I know most cars are built with toe-in during bump, so they become more stable. Toe-out on bump can be nasty apparently.

I tend to agree with Dave, though could never be bothered writing it. S13 gear works fine for me. And I never noticed massive differences jumping directly from my AE86 with S13 front end to my other with XT130 struts, RA60 hubs and AE86 shocks (or even initially when it had stock AE86 bits).

Hen

Sam-Q
21st August 2010, 10:11 PM
I am just curious how you where able to measure it in 3 axis

Konakid
22nd August 2010, 02:03 PM
ke70dave, good writeup, get some PS arms, feel weird first few times you drive but then it all makes sense, feels like a proper sports car with the quick steering. One of the best mods you can do to a corolla in my opinion!

ke70dave
24th August 2010, 07:40 PM
ke70dave, good writeup, get some PS arms, feel weird first few times you drive but then it all makes sense, feels like a proper sports car with the quick steering. One of the best mods you can do to a corolla in my opinion!



sam: not realy sure what you mean by that, but my analysis was quite crude, as it only analysed when the wheels were pointed straight ahead, so i only needed to measure the pivot points relative to each other, and then relative to the ground.

What I mean is did you only work it out on the basis of the difference in rack length?

foamy
9th April 2011, 02:43 PM
Bumping an old thread here. Issues with S13 gear aside, is there any difference between using S13 struts and coilovers?(as far as fitting them goes). Will I need to use AE86 camber tops, or can I use the stock KE70 hat to bolt them up?

Hen may possibly be a nut
18th April 2011, 08:51 PM
Stock S13 struts tend to be too low. You want (maybe even need) coilovers with base height adjustment so you can wind them up to a reasonable height. Mine are as high as they can possibly go and the car is by no means riding high.

As for strut tops, use whatever matches your car. You will need to do some slight mods to fit anything Toyota on top of the coilovers anyway.

keiichi
18th April 2011, 09:10 PM
not to mention s13 struts will hit and jam up on the inside of your strut tower.
i barely ran s13 agx struts in my corona, dont even ask me how.

Magic School Bus
20th April 2011, 09:48 AM
Seeing as someone has already dug this thread up, another question. what are the options for Castor rods on S13 LCA's on an AE86? are the stock AE86 ones a good option?
forgive me if i'm missing something, just haven't really seen much info around on this.

Thanks.

keiichi
20th April 2011, 12:38 PM
if you use toyota castor rods you will have to redrill one of the holes on the lca. if you use nissan (aftermarket) castor rods you will have to modify, more extensively, the castor rod bracket.

swcustoms
20th April 2011, 07:15 PM
fuck ! laptop died mid write up .


for all your information this is a much simpler conversion than made out to be it requires minimal mods and does change the geometry but not in a negative way as all the die hard fans state . i will post a write up from my other computer when i get time .


basically all you need is lock spacers +25 mm and slightly longer tie rod ends ke70 rod end taper matches s13 hub taper . simple .

and if your going to run sr20 you can even use an sr cross member in a ke70 slot the rear holes and mod rack mounts or modify s13 power steer rack to suit ke70 .

ill post in more detail later . sorry guys or pm me with questions

lolwat
1st May 2011, 10:51 PM
sway bar holes line up????

keiichi
1st May 2011, 11:57 PM
barely, think they will be on an angle iirc, especially more so with the mx62 arms.

lolwat
2nd May 2011, 12:15 AM
also another one ill need to get another brake master cyclinder S13 ones dont need prop valve??? or am i wrong

keiichi
2nd May 2011, 12:27 AM
i dont think you need a new master cylinder, i have done this conversion on several coronas and a couple corollas all sr20 brakes standard master was fine.

lolwat
3rd May 2011, 10:03 PM
FUCK OATH!!!!!!!!! sick ass cheers

kaibeecee
4th May 2011, 04:55 PM
for those wondering about the castor rod dramas, i did a conversion using R33 GTR castor arms, where i sourced 5mm plate, bent it to a 'U' and drilled a hold through the top end and opposing ends and used an M12 & M14 bolts, tacked two 2mm thick washers to the end and copied an aftermarket 86 castor rod bracket essentially.

IE: http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i304/datsit/Spirited%20Drive/IMG_4312.jpg

or you could ditch that crappy design and cut the guts out of the castor arm bracket and drill four holes and pay less for better castor arms that'll suit the car/allow for more lock (unlike the 86 ones.)

lolwat
12th July 2011, 11:24 PM
alrighty, how did people go with brake likes, just used a longer??? braided line?

4agte Ke70
26th July 2011, 05:33 PM
cheers for the info, just done it to my ke70. =)

phil86
10th January 2012, 05:35 PM
Digging this thread up again... When using SR brakes what booster is best to use? S13? I don't want to be redrilling the firewall or re-routing brake lines if possible.

Cheers

matt99
10th January 2012, 06:29 PM
Best to use or suitable to use?

I always run standard.

phil86
11th January 2012, 01:35 PM
Which is best to use without needing to redrill the firewall and rerun brake lines. By standard do u mean standard for ke70 or standard for s13? Will the s13 booster bolt to the firewall in a ke70 without drilling new holes?

phil86
11th January 2012, 05:39 PM
So basically I'm after a 15/16ths brake master cylinder (not booster, my bad) with the ports in a similar location to the ksev

matt99
11th January 2012, 05:55 PM
I use the standard KE70 master.

phil86
12th January 2012, 09:00 AM
Are you running SR20 or CA18 brakes?

matt99
12th January 2012, 04:49 PM
SR20DET in my old KE70.

SR20DET up front and VS commo rear in my two 86's.

All standard masters.

phil86
13th January 2012, 10:47 PM
Cheers mate thanks for the help

jmax
10th February 2012, 12:39 PM
Awesome, awesome info. This thread is the reason I joined this forum. One disappointing bit is that nobody has posted pics of an entire setup showing:

A)Castor Rods
B)Swaybar (installed)

I was not sure if RA40 outers/inners was the answer but now I got it. All i have to figure out is which castor rod to use.

I am using Tanabe Sustec Pro coilovers and a modified spindle for more angle:

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/5/1/0/3/287362.jpg

Keep the info coming.

fantapants
11th February 2012, 06:58 PM
can get mix n match ae86 castor front halves and s13 reaer halves put together if your friendly with people who do both.... or i just drilled one extra hole for the castor rod standard. worked a treat. sway bar mounted as per normal if memory serves...

CHESSEDUDE
13th June 2013, 06:31 PM
Bit of a bump... Anyone get an S13 front end swap engineered for road use? What model car??