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sundee
21st February 2009, 09:42 AM
so talking to some of the boys here and seems to be that their is some unknown mistery about our manual racks.

heres some info ive been able to gather by having an Ae86 GTV rack and Standard Rack side by side

different types: Manual racks

Factory

1. GTV
2. Standard

Part #'s

1. ER2 - 40
2. ER1 - 10

Turns Lock to Lock:

1. 3.6 / with AJPS Lock spacer - 3.9!! will massive angle
2. 3.3

Distance from case end to Rack end (see pic below)

1. 156mm
2. 144mm

Aftermarket:

Quafie


*the part number is on the drivers side mount.
*Turns lock to lock were measured with the racks on the floor, marking a point and counting turns of main input shaft
* the noticable difference was once both rack were at full lock the amount of travel was visuably noticable as u can see above (case -Rack end distance mm)

pics to explain below

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/5/6908.jpg

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/5/6909.jpg

fee free to add to it

af300e
21st February 2009, 11:50 AM
Turns Lock to Lock:

1. 3.6 / with AJPS Lock spacer - 3.9!! will massive angle
2. 3.3




So the sportier rack is slower than a normal one? Is that right?

Robo86
21st February 2009, 12:08 PM
hmmm cool.
its weird i have a 87' GT rack and its different to a standard rack (aus etc) because the ajps lock spacer fouls on something

sundee
21st February 2009, 03:41 PM
hmmm cool.
its weird i have a 87' GT rack and its different to a standard rack (aus etc) because the ajps lock spacer fouls on something

The AJPS lock spacer fouls a little on mine to. it fouls on the internal bush on the pax side but i think it should be right after a little driving.


as for the racks some guys say that the GTV has a better ratio. i dont know about that, it has more turns lock to lock and more travel than a standard aus spec rack.

with my 14's up front , the GTV rack and the lock spacer i can't achieve full lock because the wheel hits the rear inner of the wheel arch, i think its actually hitting the break line bracket

marvis
21st February 2009, 03:50 PM
I really need to put my spacer in.

Good post.

marvis.

Golberg
21st February 2009, 08:09 PM
Moved to Tech Articles

sundee
21st February 2009, 09:58 PM
thanks Golberg, Oh yek yeah RAck spacer FTW!!! the Lock angle is intence!
ill get a pic up on tuesday once i get wheel alignment ,
but specs are:

GTV Rack.. 12mm more travel than adm (as above)
PS arms
AJPS Lock spacer

its gonna be rediculous... its gonna be a forklift, i just need to put a knob on the steering wheel hehehe

Rian
22nd February 2009, 02:02 PM
i think the lock spacers were missmachined...

i got dave to send me a second one thinkin the first one was just accident/oldstock or something.. but both were the same...

2 minutes with a file worked it out.

sundee
22nd February 2009, 03:55 PM
yeah its not much ATM when the lock spacer goes through the end bush it just gets a bit tighter, but not much

Rian
22nd February 2009, 04:09 PM
yeh i tried both on a 2 seperate rackes.. and then again wen i changed housings... and it was knocking on the seal... quite annoying really.

Jonny Rochester
22nd February 2009, 09:32 PM
Great info. I previously didn't have this measurement of the GTV rack. Here is what I have to add, for manual racks:

From EPC:
-AE86, KE70, AE71, GTV housings are all the same
-AE86, KE70, AE71, GTV pinions are all the same
-AE86, KE70, AE71 (exc GTV) racks are all the same
-GTV rack is unique
-AE86, KE70, AE71, GTV rack ends are all the same
-GTV tierod ends are a different part,

From sundee86 info above, the GTV and normal AE86 have the same or similar gear ratios. And considering they both use the same pinion, I will say they have the same ratio. (About 0.023 turns per mm, or 43mm per turn)

Conclusion:
thinking...

Extra lock fitment:
The thread in the end (or your spacer, or rack end) maynot be perfectly centred. So whoever provides your extra lock device (slip-on spacer/ threaded spacer/ rack ends) should make the diameter slightly undersize with a chamfer to avoid it catching on the passanger side bush.

sundee
22nd February 2009, 10:40 PM
and just to confirm with what jonnyrochester said above, i had to cut 6mm of my tie rods (Standard AE86) because they ran out of thread.

As for the lock spacer, mine catches, im about to pull it all appart again, measure the ID of the rack bush and put the spacer on a lathe and mill it down so its a perfect fit. and im going to put the verniers on the spacer to see if the thread is centered. ill get back tomorrow with the results

Kid Karola
23rd February 2009, 03:57 AM
got a pic somewhere comparing to std rack and Quaife Quick Rack...

Top: Quaife Rack - Straight cut teeth 25T, different angle and larger pinion 10T. Quaife is 2.5 lock-lock.
Bottom: Manual Rack - also 25T, but Pinion 7T = 3.6 turns lock-lock.
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/1/1/9/7082.jpg

Left: Quaife Pinion
Right: Manual Pinion
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/1/1/9/7083.jpg

Note: Quaife Rack does NOT give more lock! but is has more direct and quicker steering response, although heavier.
Some people have had extra teeth cut into the Quaife rack to increase lock.

Also GTV use power-steering arms also.

anastasios
23rd February 2009, 11:45 AM
so the ke70 and 86 rack are the same?

Jonny Rochester
23rd February 2009, 11:51 AM
so the ke70 and 86 rack are the same?

Yes, according to the EPC. At least in Japan they are. But I think the local KE70 racks may have been built localy. I am told the KE70 rack has 1 less tooth, and I now know they have less stroke. (Hence the greater need for a lock spacer on a KE70).

anastasios
23rd February 2009, 11:53 AM
and what does one less tooth do?

RacerMelb
23rd February 2009, 02:03 PM
Can any one tell me what length the Jap Power steer racks are, due to the wife wanting to use the car as well she has requested Power Steering, so interested to find out what dimentions they are.

Rian
23rd February 2009, 06:11 PM
i believe the adm ke70 and ae86 have the same teeth.. but the 86 rack has more throw.(longer.)

sundee
23rd February 2009, 06:12 PM
hmm i can already see the shopping trolly dings appearing in the body work!!

kAmbo
23rd February 2009, 06:59 PM
which rack needed 6mm cut of the tie rod when installing AJPS lock spacer?
reason is, i installed one on an aw11 rack and i didn't have to cut 6mm off. so i would assume the AW11 has the exact same rack as one of the AE86's?

also i think stock turn was 3.2 lock to lock. right now its 3.5? will check when i get the car back from panel beaters

*urban_ninja*
23rd February 2009, 07:38 PM
has any one looked for a rack of a nother car that will both increas lock as well as reduce turn numbers lock to lock????

Beau
26th February 2009, 10:44 AM
has any one looked for a rack of a nother car that will both increas lock as well as reduce turn numbers lock to lock????

APPRENTLY APPRENTLY a ae82 or ae92 give more lock in a sprinter. But i have not tested this theory. Anyone able to point me in the direction of more info on Quaife racks?

shift_rook
26th February 2009, 12:34 PM
i've got a quaife rack, looks shiny, i'll let you know what it's like when it's all done, as i still need toi find some bearings etc etc. will be able to give you a first hand opinion not just 1 guys opinion passed around by 200 people haha

86coupe
26th February 2009, 12:53 PM
Wonder what mine is then? It has less than 3 turns lock to lock. Not quite centred either, so 1.5 turns to the right and around 1.3 turns to the left.

Previous owner said it had a GTV rack, but now I'm not so sure.

Jonny Rochester
26th February 2009, 04:16 PM
I've got information man. New shit has come to light.

The manual RA60 rack* (just the rack itself), is the same as the AE86 one in every way except it is a lot longer and has 3 extra teeth.

But information is dangerous. For 99% of people on here, please do nothing with this info. Forget it, walk away.

For others, consider using the RA60 rack if you want another way of getting extra lock, instead of a screw in spacer. You need a lathe to cut it to length, and drill and tap a thread for the rack end. The teeth profile is the same, except the depth of the teeth is different by about 1mm, I think it would work.

(And I suspect some other Toyota racks could be used in a similar way).

*Same as ST141/RT142 Corona.

Kid Karola
27th February 2009, 12:05 AM
I run the Quaife rack and I love it! it's absolutely awesome in the hills especially through the twisties. Most I need to turn the wheel even through a hairpin is just over quarter turn! can be a little darty to begin with, almost too twitchy until you get used to the instant steering response (stiff suss probably exentuates this aspect) as you think you need to turn more than you need to.
Possible downside arms get sore after a while, maybe I need to harden the F up and get back in shape :P as steering is heavy - sucks to park tho lol (especially with current track given 9's on front)
Secondly it does not give you anymore lock, but I am not a drifter and so I am not looking for 10-15 degrees of extra max lock.

*Also from memory there was a slight revision in the racks currently offered and the first generation made by Quaife a number of years back. (maybe Frak can elaborate...)

sonsta
27th February 2009, 12:14 AM
does a quick rack give you the same lock as stock? i know it doesnt give you any extra but it doesnt give you any less than stock does it? i was always under the impresion that they do.

Kid Karola
27th February 2009, 12:20 AM
Less turns of steering wheel to acheive the same steering angle.

sundee
1st March 2009, 12:14 AM
I run the Quaife rack and I love it! it's absolutely awesome in the hills especially through the twisties. Most I need to turn the wheel even through a hairpin is just over quarter turn! can be a little darty to begin with, almost too twitchy until you get used to the instant steering response (stiff suss probably exentuates this aspect) as you think you need to turn more than you need to.
Possible downside arms get sore after a while, maybe I need to harden the F up and get back in shape :P as steering is heavy - sucks to park tho lol (especially with current track given 9's on front)
Secondly it does not give you anymore lock, but I am not a drifter and so I am not looking for 10-15 degrees of extra max lock.

*Also from memory there was a slight revision in the racks curretly offered and the first generation made by Quaife a number of years back. (maybe Frak can elaborate...)

hey man those quafie QR's must be insane! ive just put in the urethane rack bush's and my (thanks AJPS) car darts around , its really sensitive, this also would depend on the size of the steering wheel that you are using, im using a 360mm ( i think that this should be another topic ) ive heard guys saying that its a bit big for a hachi.. mehh i love it! another things that comes down to personal preference... but obviously with the bigger wheel you have to do less work but also makes the steering input more sensetive.

Jonny Rochester
1st March 2009, 03:13 PM
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/8/4/546684.jpg

Top rack is AE86.
Bottom rack is RA60, showing 3 extra teeth. Length is 60mm longer (too long to use).

kAmbo
1st March 2009, 03:23 PM
random question. does the quick rack mess with your auto return for the signals? as you are not turning as much hence not "clicking" it to return.
how much turns lock to lock is the QR?
my stock aw11 was 3.2 from memory and now is 3.5 with AJPS lock spacer, also didnt need to cut 8mm of tie rod end

starni_boy
1st March 2009, 07:12 PM
Shouldn't affect the return signal. It's 2.5 turns lock to lock.

Oly AE86
1st March 2009, 09:25 PM
It DOES effect the return for signals. If its less than maybe 80 degree corner, does not un-latch the indicator, but i have learned to manually un-latch, not a biggie.

Quick rack is heavier at low speed, but still bearable. At higher speed can swoop through round-abouts with only 90 degree rotation, pretty awesome.

QR is 2.5 lock to lock, std is 3.3

Overall lock is reduced with the Quaife rack, but then improved with PS Arms. I still consider it a worthy addition.

86coupe
1st March 2009, 11:14 PM
Still mystified as to what mine could be. Its less than 3, but more than 2.5.

Has powersteering arms, but rack has been changed to something manual while in Japan.

Steering is pretty heavy. Indicators rarely go off by themselves. Doesn't have massive lock either.

Jonny Rochester
1st March 2009, 11:46 PM
I am still looking into all aspects off this, searching international forums also, even japanese language ones.

I now suspect sundee86 has a longer rack, not a stock GTV one. (His whole car was fiddled with at a tuning shop, yes?)

And 86coupe probably has a GTV rack.

If anyone wants to help me, please take your rack boot off and measure rack stroke just as sundee86 did. Also total turns lock to lock. I am getting closer to nutting out these differences.

The Japanese are ordering quaife racks from England as the traditional Japanese places like TRD no longer make a quick rack for them. There used to be a Cusco quick rack also.

And other Toyota racks can be modifyed to get extra travel (as I did today). So if your cars an import, who knows what was done.

I suspect a regular GTV rack only has a stroke of 130mm (3 turns lock to lock), but with PS knuckles it achives the same steering angle as other cars.

An "ADM" AE86 with regular manual rack has a stroke of 144mm. That combined with PS knuckles makes the tyre start to rub on the inner body, the max angle you can have. I can't see how the GTV had more stroke than that. To use more steering angle, you need to have longer control arms.

sundee
2nd March 2009, 12:25 PM
Yeah johnny that's correct I suspest it was Fiddled with at jubiride, just going from all the jubiride bits it's got on it and it's also pictured on their web page. I wish I knew what rack it has! So johnny u think the rack is different to a gtv rack? I max out and scrub the fronts on the inner at about 3.6 of the 3.9 turns. I wanna get to the bottom of this!

shift_rook
2nd March 2009, 12:30 PM
ah it's good to hear that a quaife rack is good, makes me a lot happier now that i've got one.

Jonny Rochester
2nd March 2009, 08:28 PM
Note: still looking for info if you have it, but below is what I think from limited info, but cafefull measuring and calculating of what I do have:


All manual racks (except aftermarket quick racks) use the same pinion (6 teeth) and gear ratio. (About 43.3mm rack movement per turn). All rack housings (at least the manuals) are of the same width, 400mm +-1mm.

AE86/AE85 with power steer
rack width: 530mm?
stroke: 130mm
turns: 3

AE86/AE85 with manual steer
rack width: 552mm
stroke: 152mm
turns: 3.5

AE86 GTV manual
rack width: 530mm
stroke: 130mm
turns: 3

The GTV has the same steering rack ratio, but the resulting steering is quicker only due to the shorter power steering knuckles. Due to the sharper angle the PS knuckles would give, the GTV rack stroke is limited. Both the regular manual cars and the GTV would have similar maximum steering angle.

KE70/AE71 some* manual
rack width: 545mm
stroke: 144mm
turns: 3.3

*The KE70 in Australia shares the same rack housing as the AE86 (400mm wide) and the same pinion and gear ratio, but the rack itself is not as long. Some KE70's in other countrys use the same rack as the AE86.

To achive the sharpest steering angle with the above parts, we use the longer 152mm steering rack (not the GTV one), combined with the PS/GTV knuckles. At this point, the tyre may start to rub on the inner body. To achive even greater steering angle (with either **longer rack, special rack ends, slip on spacers or screw on spacers) you also need longer lower control arms.

Tie-rod ends:
AE86 steering rod ends are about 190-195mm long, from ball joint centre to end. Due to a narrower rack, the GTV ones are about 208mm long. With longer lower control arms, use RA40/KE30 tie-rods.

Quick racks from TRD, Cusco/Chowini and Quaife are all based on the normal 152mm stroke manual rack. The Quaife one is still available, and has 2.5 turns.

**If you want a custom length rack, you can use a RA60 one and cut it down.

Kid Karola
2nd March 2009, 09:47 PM
Yeah johnny that's correct I suspest it was Fiddled with at jubiride, just going from all the jubiride bits it's got on it and it's also pictured on their web page. I wish I knew what rack it has! So johnny u think the rack is different to a gtv rack? I max out and scrub the fronts on the inner at about 3.6 of the 3.9 turns. I wanna get to the bottom of this!

I guess you have a std or GTV rack, PS arms AND aftermarket inner tie-rods. There could be 5-10mm more meat on them and essentially have the same effect as the lock spacer, also more taper in the joint so they don't bind at lock. Mystery could be unravelled by getting under and getting your hands dirty ;)

http://www.tokyoseven.com/T7/images/RunFree-tierods-400.jpg
Run-Free items pictured

sundee
2nd March 2009, 10:11 PM
I guess you have a std or GTV rack, PS arms AND aftermarket inner tie-rods. There could be 5-10mm more meat on them and essentially have the same effect as the lock spacer, also more taper in the joint so they don't bind at lock. Mystery could be unravelled by getting under and getting your hands dirty ;)

hands have already been dirty as u can see from the 1st post,
rack ends are bog stock because i replaced them myself, the rack measurements are their and the number of turns lock to lock are all on the 1st page... let me have a read of all this info n see what i can come up with...

Frak
2nd March 2009, 10:13 PM
Quaife rack FTW

Kid Karola
2nd March 2009, 11:01 PM
OK didn'r realise you had removed yours already - thought you had looked at a couple loose racks you had laying around ;)

Jonny Rochester
2nd March 2009, 11:25 PM
sundee86: I think your 156mm stoke rack is not the GTV one, but a longer one the tuning shop put in. (Only 4mm longer than Apex, but easy to make from cutting a Corona/Carina/Celica/Camry one). GT and Apex has 152mm stoke, GTV has 130mm. And the normal rack you had on the floor, I think is a KE70 one. I would recomend you put the 156mm stroke rack back in, but remove the lock spacer. As you say yourself, the rack is already the correct length to give the most steering angle possible. If you want more angle, you had better see where the tyres hit first. You would need longer lower control arms for sure.

I suspect that it would be common in Japan, to replace the GTV rack with the normal 152mm stoke one, to increase steering angle. Or start with a GT or Apex manual steer model, and fit PS/GTV knuckles for the same effect. To make use of even more angle with spacers or stepped rack ends, I think you need longer lower crontrol arms or negative RCA's.

sundee
3rd March 2009, 12:20 PM
Sweet custom rack!! Yeww I've already put the 156mm rack back in with lock spacer , I'm going to leave it that way n go longer LCA's later and if it still scrubs out then out comes the hammer. ;)

lovemy86
24th April 2009, 07:43 PM
i've just got a standard rack thats as sloppy as a nuns nasty. i was going to rebuild it but i'd much prefer a quaife. anyone know where i can get the neccisary bits? or even a whole thing already done cos i'm lazy. i'm not interested in extra lock.

Frak
24th April 2009, 08:31 PM
i've just got a standard rack thats as sloppy as a nuns nasty.


I would of thought that a "nun's nasty" was tight!

but hey you know what they say,

what sort of meat do priest's eat?

nun!

lovemy86
24th April 2009, 08:43 PM
you'd understand if you knew the nun i know. was a prostitute now born again catholic nun!!!! bit of an inside joke with mates.
anyone know where i can get my hands on quaife stuff?

NIZLAH
24th April 2009, 10:04 PM
you'd understand if you knew the nun i know. was a prostitute now born again catholic nun!!!! bit of an inside joke with mates.
anyone know where i can get my hands on quaife stuff?

palmside NZ, pretty cheap at the moment too, one place where the exchange rate works out good.......... :thumbup::rolleyes:

tuned86
1st May 2009, 10:36 PM
I got a quaife and its more like 2.25 lock-lock. Its easy once you keep moving but on slow speeds and parking its like turning a manual van...not fun! Steering is quick though!

I also have a GTV rack ready to go in the new car, its 3 lock-lock - getting old and muscles are tiring from parking...let me know if you need any data as its still apart.

ae86 slide
24th January 2010, 03:04 PM
In my current 86 I have a quiafe rack (was installed before I bought it). In my old 86 I had a standard rack with PS arms. Btw both cars had/have RCA's.

I agree with everyone about steering being direct, twitchy and fast. Also agree it is heavy at low speed.
One thing I am not happy with is the feel when drifting, the best way to describe it is like it becomes very heavy again when sliding, especially when winding off lock once already sliding (increasing angle).
The other thing I find is it feels very 'bump steery', when sliding if you go over an undulation or even during heavy weight shifts (scando flicks) it feels like the wheel is trying to be ripped out of your hands.

I drove my mates 86 recently at qr with standard rack and PS arms and it felt a bit more vague but light and controlable.

Just my opinion, does anyone else agree?

ke_70
24th January 2010, 06:39 PM
can you use a lock spacer on the quiafe rack?

sundee
24th January 2010, 07:29 PM
you could assume so - takes same rack ends

ae86 slide
25th January 2010, 07:51 AM
it is heavy at low speeds yes and some bumpy corners its twitchy and when sliding but when youre going through a switch back i wouldnt change the directness for a thing, one of my favourite mods, but not so good for drift



yes, ive got one of the new gen racks with 3 extra teeth cut in + a lock spacer

Yeah I hear ya Dave, my. Current car is track only for drifting so the quiafe may be up for grabs, but totally agree for hill climb or grip racing it is awesome

af300e
25th January 2010, 11:37 AM
The other thing I find is it feels very 'bump steery', when sliding if you go over an undulation or even during heavy weight shifts (scando flicks) it feels like the wheel is trying to be ripped out of your hands.

Are you running super dishy wheels? Sounds like excessive scrub radius could be one of your issues.

LittleRedSpirit
25th January 2010, 12:09 PM
Everyone whos driven my car with the Quaife rack tries to run it up gutters on the entry to corners. It takes a long while to feel comfortable with it, especially correcting slides and turning in, but once you get the nack its incredibly precise and fun.

For drifing Id also reccoment ps arms instead, just purely for the lock.

Quaife rack is terrific for grip and I really enjoy it on dirt aswell.:D

Frak
26th January 2010, 12:12 AM
I've had a quaife rack fitted for years, infact my brother(working in UK at the time) got it for me hot of the machines back when they did their first run and promptly air freighted to me:) very first corner I went around I felt right at home with it, just a little heavy.

LittleRedSpirit
26th January 2010, 12:31 AM
Yeah Frak, but the heavyness is tempered with a good deal of stability.

I dont find it suffers from bump steer worse than a normal rack and pinion. In theory it will reduce the noticeable effects of bump steer since the steering deflects less for the same relative deflection of the wheel as it compresses.:heart:

Frak
26th January 2010, 01:50 PM
Yeah Frak, but the heavyness is tempered with a good deal of stability.



I didn't say it didn't! just a touch heavy.

LittleRedSpirit
26th January 2010, 03:01 PM
I didn't say it didn't! just a touch heavy.

Defend the throne then. ahaha. Im agreeing with you and building on what you say.:hehe:

Noticing a trend here, you cant post in a thread without making reference to being the original Australian AE86 guru who did everything before the rest of us. When i grow up I wanna be just like Uncle Frak Frak. Hahaha.














:right:
No seriously, Im sick of reading about it.

Frak
26th January 2010, 04:49 PM
No seriously, Im sick of reading about it.
Dude, and I'm seriously sick of reading about your BS aswell. but I guess on a forum I'll just have to put up with it.

The reason I usually mention how long I've had mine is due to people like YOU constantly bringing up how AE86's are a current fad/initial D etc.

but you keep it up, your the man:rolleyes:

driftke70
26th January 2010, 06:01 PM
man frak its part of life, valiants wernt popular until wog boy.


ive always run a keto rack with ps arms and stuff, but i will be running a jdm 86 rack with a quaife and spacer.

Frak
26th January 2010, 06:27 PM
Valiant's have always been popular with wogs ;)

Must of been some upset ethnics when they stopped making them!

biggo
26th January 2010, 07:19 PM
They stopped making them when they realised they were shit. Bet there were still some upset ethnics then too.

Frak
26th January 2010, 07:27 PM
They stopped making them when they realised they were shit.


What about Aust made Leylands, like the P76, now there were some shit built cars.

biggo
26th January 2010, 07:37 PM
it wasnt built, it fell apart. Therefore it wasnt a car.

lovemy86
21st February 2010, 03:57 PM
has this possibly gone off topic? lol

biggo
24th February 2010, 09:51 PM
maybe, its beside the point tho. A steering rack is a steering rack, and nothing you do will change its name.

I just cut more teeth in racks for shits and giggles. Inner guards serve their purpose as lock stoppers.

stx-16
1st March 2010, 11:43 AM
does an ae86 rack have more lock then a ke70 rack??

ae86
1st March 2010, 10:34 PM
did you not read all of this thread...

stx-16
2nd March 2010, 02:47 PM
i just read the whole thing and all i saw was "i think" witch doesent help me at all i want to know for sure before i buy one

anastasios
16th March 2010, 06:36 PM
Ok so does a quaife bolt into a 70 rack?

doots
17th March 2010, 03:55 AM
86 rack has more lock unless you get a jdm kesev rack. thats what im gathering from this thread. i take it most of this information is relative to how finely tuned your car is?

how hard is it to take the rack out of the pinion? is it possible to replace ke70 rack with 86 wrack whilst keeping the same pinion?

last but not least is what biggo said plausable? is just cutting teeth in a worthy idea or destined for trouble? strength is the key issue for me.

anastasios
17th March 2010, 01:32 PM
I just emailed Palmside and they said that the quaife does fit into a 70 rack. Hopefully they are right!

bigm
19th March 2010, 07:06 PM
OK for you tech nuts (HEN?)

For my MX73 Cressida i have manual steer.

Im using my ke70 rack which is considerably shorter than the P/S cressida one was.

Looking for a replacement that is of the same length as the cressida one, as some have suggested that the shorter rack will leade to bump steer because of the different angle between the LCA and so on and so forth..

so im thinking? ra celica? thats all i can think of. any confirmation would be appreciated? or measurments people have

Thanks

Matt-AE86
27th March 2010, 04:25 PM
i would think an RA60 manual rack might work in your situation. they are similar cars so your chances might be good.

Sam-Q
3rd April 2010, 12:09 AM
hmm surprising no-one has made a pun type joke about getting their hands on a good rack.

anyway quafe rack will not give you bump steer, I do not believe that there is any factory dialed in bump steer. Lock spacers on the other hand will.

I guess it's also worth pointing out that all toyota rack ends can easily be modified in a lathe for more steering lock.

bigm
3rd April 2010, 08:07 PM
LOLOL sam. never thought of it really. but LOL

can you please elaborate sam? wouldnt machining down the rack end reduce lock, as it almost the opposite of a lock spacer? correct me as i am probably wrong.

Sam-Q
3rd April 2010, 08:48 PM
err I mean inner tie rod ends not the outer part of the rack. The theory goes a lock spacer is small enough to fit into the rack end, if there is a step machined into the end of the inner tie rods they can move further into the rack housing itself istead of acting as the hard steering lock. I havent tried it yet but I can't see why I would be any issue at all modding these on any lathe. I will try it soon on my car. This is what Jonny R has been selling on ebay and mailing off 6 months after the auction has ended.

blair
23rd February 2011, 02:29 PM
-EDIT-

Thought i had <2.5 turns lock to lock,

Turns out the steering arm hits the bolt head for the castor rod when the suspension is completely unloaded LOL

Have 144mm and 3.3ish.

Another odd thing i noticed though, is (although i havent had a wheel alignment, purely by eye and a few measurements)

The tie rod is hitting the LCA on lock, BEFORE putting in a lockspacer, on both sides!.. so i'm not going to bother putting it in. fucks me why, it didnt on previous car with exact same setup...

86 struts
xt130 lca - stoppers cut off
pwr steer arms
50mm rca - was 40, but cant see it affecting the issue much/at all?

Sprinter Freak
17th June 2012, 01:56 PM
bringing this thread back, just bought a quick rack and installed it. Is it really that bad to use when drifting? is it worth getting rid of the quaife rack and getting an ae86 rack?

johl
17th June 2012, 02:21 PM
quick racks are the best for drifting imo. it may feel weird at first if you are used to a normal rack but i have always used one and it is one of the best mods i did to my old car. when i let friends drive it at first they didn't like it, but after a few laps they got used to it and loved the "go-kart" feeling it gives the car

willa
17th June 2012, 08:28 PM
Which steering arm combos have you ran with your quick rack for extra lock johl? I'm deciding whether i should get some cut and shut knuckles or get another two teeth cut into my rack.

johl
17th June 2012, 09:30 PM
i was running power steering arms only. the was less lock due to the quick rack but there was still enough lock imo. if i had the opportunity to cut more teeth before installing it i would do it in hind sight. on my new build i have jdi knuckles, amps adjustable rose jointed lca's and tie rods with my quick rack. with that setup the rack just begins to bind on full lock in one direction and stops just before bind in the other. so if you go this far you will have to either move the rack 20mm forward, get offset rack ends which are in the pipeline at MCNSports or you can make your own lock stoppers to stop the amount of lock you can use.

Sprinter Freak
17th June 2012, 09:42 PM
quick racks are the best for drifting imo. it may feel weird at first if you are used to a normal rack but i have always used one and it is one of the best mods i did to my old car. when i let friends drive it at first they didn't like it, but after a few laps they got used to it and loved the "go-kart" feeling it gives the car


i was running power steering arms only. the was less lock due to the quick rack but there was still enough lock imo. if i had the opportunity to cut more teeth before installing it i would do it in hind sight. on my new build i have jdi knuckles, amps adjustable rose jointed lca's and tie rods with my quick rack. with that setup the rack just begins to bind on full lock in one direction and stops just before bind in the other. so if you go this far you will have to either move the rack 20mm forward, get offset rack ends which are in the pipeline at MCNSports or you can make your own lock stoppers to stop the amount of lock you can use.

cheers for the reply, good to hear that this new rack isn't a complete waste of time. So how many more teeth should i get cut into my rack? and when you say offset rack ends what do you mean? i thought the inner tie rods were the things that stopped the amount of lock you could use?

nichy
18th June 2012, 12:13 PM
i struggle with my tie rod hitting my lca on lock as well..... and have shit loads more rack travel to play with.

havent looked at how to fix though... but alot of people dont get it . odd

t3 steering arms and tie rods
35mm t3 rca's
ke55 lca's

johl
18th June 2012, 04:45 PM
if you look at the rack you will see at the end of the teeth there is a flat spot. you will have to get this area built up with material then get more teeth cut into this. i think from memory people were getting 2 or 3 cut in. some have not bothered about building up the area and some have even just done it by eye with an angle grinder. it still worked but i personally wouldn't do it like that.

google offset rack ends for an s13. its just an alternative to moving the steering rack forward. it comes with some trade offs but moving a rack forward is a lot of work

Sprinter Freak
20th June 2012, 12:56 PM
on the quick racks there isn't a flat spot, it just tapers up to the normal rack size, so don't think id need to add material. does anyone know who you would get to cut more teeth into a rack? i've called a few fabrication places and they have all said they couldn't do it. would it be more something a metal machinist would do?

had a look at offset rack ends, supposedly they wear you rack ends and tie rods so don't know if i'm too keen on them, plus there isn't any readily available.

does anyone know any places in sydney that would cut extra teeth into a steering rack?

AJPS
20th June 2012, 04:01 PM
i got my engineer to do mine

cut 3 extra teeth and hardened it etc

didnt cost much from memory

Delazy
20th June 2012, 04:11 PM
Soooo who has the best price on these things ATM??

Sprinter Freak
20th June 2012, 09:35 PM
sweet will be checking out some engineers to see who can do it

--Redwork--
10th September 2012, 06:31 PM
OK.. So becaus I'm a GIANT gaybo. I would really like to run PS in my track car..

Is there a PS rack that is the correct length or close to that of an 86 rack but ahs more travel than the 86 PS rack.?
ae82 eg..
Or going in a different dirrection.. What is it the limits the rack travel in a PS rack..??
Is it less teeth or the internal piston that stops it.?
I've never pulled a PS rack apart to see exactly how they function..

--Redwork--
10th September 2012, 06:51 PM
Some searching reveals it will probably be far easier to fit an electric steering column instead..
I have to change mine anyway so no biggy.. :)

Sam-Q
10th September 2012, 08:06 PM
One of the irish guys posted that the seals pop if you go more than the original amount of travel. I think it might have been the same guy who was offering the drop in modified Opel Corsa electric column.

jdm86gtz
11th September 2012, 12:02 AM
Or going in a different dirrection.. What is it the limits the rack travel in a PS rack..??
Is it less teeth or the internal piston that stops it.?
I've never pulled a PS rack apart to see exactly how they function..

I fitted Uras extra lock rack ends to my P/S rack and it blew the seal on the piston. The piston travels past the external oil tubes and tears the nylon seal. I fitted another rack and the same happened, fitted new seals to the 1st rack and it blew again. I went back to normal rack ends then.
You might get away with a 3-4mm spacer but you would have to remove the pipes and see how close you would be to blowing out the seal.

--Redwork--
11th September 2012, 06:44 PM
One of the irish guys posted that the seals pop if you go more than the original amount of travel. I think it might have been the same guy who was offering the drop in modified Opel Corsa electric column.


In my googling I came across the Opel Corsa colomn.. Its quite a common rack to use into almost anything from what I can see..
Quite cheap too.. Thats deffinately the dirrection I will be heading..

jdm86gtz..
I figured that would be the issue.. And even if you did get a 3-4mm spacer its still a long way short of matching the manual. rack.

Sam-Q
11th September 2012, 07:42 PM
find out if it's the same as out locally delivered Barina if you can. I am interested myself

--Redwork--
11th September 2012, 10:03 PM
Don't know how I'd find that info out but I would imagine they would be the same.. Would seem strange to change them when the cars are virtuall identical save for some minor cosmetic differences.

Sam-Q
12th September 2012, 01:00 AM
just find out if they feature any electric assistance for the start, if it does then I bet it's the same

--Redwork--
12th September 2012, 06:30 AM
Vauxhall. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Vauxhall-Corsa-Mk3-C-2000-2006-Electric-Power-Steering-Column-/350587373757?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item51a0a2c8bd

Barina. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2001-2004-HOLDEN-XC-BARINA-ELECTRONIC-POWER-STEERING-COLUMN-SHAFT-MOTOR-/180911022664?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a1f232248

AS far as I can see they are identical.. :)

ae86 slide
15th September 2012, 02:49 PM
Do you find the manual rack too heavy? Are you running wide front tyres? and what are you using the car for?

--Redwork--
16th September 2012, 10:19 AM
Tires are 205. Car is track only drift car.
SHORT knuckles and lots of caster means it is really heavy..
And I'm not the worlds greatest driver, so trying to do a quick save when you stuff up is very difficult when you have to look like arny to turn the wheel.

ae86 slide
17th September 2012, 08:40 PM
Sounds like an identical setup to mine and yeah mine is heavy. Feels nice when sliding, transitioning and doing what you want, but yeah, feels like crap when your fighting under steer. I'd be interested to see how you go with this.

anastasios
16th December 2012, 06:32 AM
hey guys, i have a steering rack here with ER2-20 on it, can anyone confirm which rack that is? or is there a way i can work it out?