can i achieve better camber cheap?

[screech]

hey fellas, im hoping someone has a bit of useful info on this.

i met a guy last nite at oran park driving a T-18 and noticed that it had the camber full sik style. i asked the guy what suspension he had and if he had camber adjustment tops. after showing me that he had the standard tops, he told me that he replaced the lower controll arm with ones from a sigma!

apparently they bolt straight on with little fuss but are longer giving more negative camber to the wheels.

ive heard stories of this being done to an 86 but have seen no evindence of it, does anybody know if this can be done on an 86 http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/huh.gif

thanks

Steve

[decoyslikecurves]

Yes it can. But the camber it gives is too much and while it will aid turn in it will diminish mid corner grip. also it pushes the front track out meaning you have to mod your guards if you wish to run big wheels. I beleive you have to grind something off the arms to make them fit.

Cheers

[screech]

cool thanks for the help, ill give it a try if i can find a cheap set. is there a paricular model of sigma or are they all the same?

[seek]

GH sigma with the press in ball joint from memory

[decoyslikecurves]

The early one piece ones

[screech]

thanks for all the help guys, ill give it a try if i can fing these parts and let you all know how they go! if they no good ill jus put the standard ones back in.

[decoyslikecurves]

Oh and one more thing, I think you ahve to use ra40 tie rod ends to work with the sigma arms. Just a heads up
Cheers

[slide86]

ive got sigma controll arms havent put them in yet, i have camber tops too. just got the controll arms for a little more http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

also there are two types one that gives it like -7.5 degrees camber and one that gives -2.5 so make shure u get what u want. i think the -7.5 ones are way to much.

[Mad RS]

Well which sigma control arms give -2.5 degrees camber. I am about to go wrecker hopping to get the parts so it would be good information to have.

Cheers

[ae86levint]

it was already said in a previous post "GH sigma with the press in ball joint from memory" the later model ones have a bolt in ball joint and are much longer.

[Mad RS]

Must have skipped over that part.

Cheers

[ToySprinta]

T3 neg camber RCA's are about $150 delivered and will give you an extra -2.8.
so if the sigma parts come to more than that (which i doubt http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/tongue.gif), could be something to consider...

[slydar]

(Brett typing) could also try using nissan s13 arms, hubs, brakes and struts as this is what l use in my race/drift car, gives adjusterble camber at the hub and at the strut top, also gives smaller scrub radius and better all round geometry tho this will be argued by many die-hard toyota fans

Benifits include
-more lock
-bigger brakes (can then up grade to 4pots if u want)
-sealed bearings
-less scrub radius (wheel dosnt swing as far from its axis)
-easily adj camber
-larger choice of coilovers
-wider track

parts needed
-s13 hubs, brakes, control arms
-trx bluebird tierod ends
-gemini rack ends
-s13 coilovers (regular struts wont fit, spring perch is to big)
-s13 control arm bolts

To fit
-grind down width of bush in control arm
-drill out bolt holes in cross member to take s13 contol arm bolts
-re-drill one hole in control arm so AE86 caster arm can fit (simple)
-digrind/file out top holes to suit s13 tops or use AE86 adj tops

anyway just some info thought might be interested in http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

[funkymonkey]

you could change to better suspension, and then add a roll center adjuster or RCA, to bring the car in level with the axle, this automatically gives you some negative camber as an added bonus your track width slightly increases (meaning you'll need to increase the track width of the rear axle as well in an ideal world).

http://img159.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/users/5/4/1/2/superima2002-img600x450-1118077947dscf0032.jpg
this is an RCA (5 cm adjustment)

[seek]

Cheers for that info Brett, im sure it will help a lot of guys out here with there suspension choice in the future, seems the best way to go to get the advantage of bigger brakes as well..................

[trueno86]

funkymonkey where do you get those rca's from? and how do you measure whether to use 25-50mm rca's ?

[monkeymajik]

How low is your car?

50mm rca's would be used on a really slammed hachi. And you probably couldnt use them on small rims either.

[funkymonkey]

RCA's you can get made up at most fabrication shops (that pic I posted was off yahoo japan auctions)... agreed that 5cm RCA is a bit extreme, 2 to 2.5 is about an average size.

One more thing I've noticed is with added RCA's the body seems to roll a lil, will have to compensate with stiffer sway bars.

[trueno86]

i have coilovers from japan, and the guard sits on the tyre with 185/60/14 not sure how low that is, as i never had stock suspension to measure.

[screech]

i have those size tyres with deepish rims, my guards come a little lower than the height of the tyre (that is when the springs are seated properly) they are 2.5" lowered from standard height.

just to give you an idea trueno 86. http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

[trueno86]

so is there a formula to calculate how to work out what size rca's to use ?

[funkymonkey]

not really, usually you know how much you have to raise a car by to make it about level with the axle... i guess get under your car with a measuring tape?

[upgarage]

i had the understanding, the amount u lower the front by is approximately how thick u need the rca
since the lower u go the more the lower arms will become level with the ground

[SirLyndon]

so if i lower my hachi 50mm (soon to be height), i should use a 50mm RCA? and where are these measurements (50mm RCA) taken from?.. im pretty sure the guy who had my car before me had it lowered 50mm, and had 30-35mm RCA's...

????? any help???

[Mad RS]

The place to measure is the end of the control arm that connects to the bottom of the strut tower. When you lower your car the control arm will move from roughly parallel with the road to point up from the road. Now the measurement that you want is how far the outer part of the control arm needs to move down to once again be roughly parallel with the road. Now it doesn't have to be perfect but if you are getting custom ones made you may as well get it within 5mm or so. I think that a little shorter than needed is better than a little too long.

Hope this helps.

[DRFTAE86]

I've done the Sigma arm swap.... total cost of $55(arms & tie rods). +wheel alighnment.

Result: -3 degrees camber both sides. I find steering alot easier and responsive.
Had to flare guards to fit 15 by 7 longchamps. Visually: track increase and camber differenace is very clearly seen.

i've attached a pic. Longchamps aren't fitted. Rims in picture are 15 by 6.5 (25 offset). At that time the guards didn't require flaring.

[DRFTAE86]

For others to see....
The differance between stock 86 arm and sigma arm.

[DRFTAE86]

Oh, it also lowered the car an extra inch. Easy fix with coilovers http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

[spoon]

do you have to use the inner or outer tie rods?

[DRFTAE86]

what do you mean inner or outter tie rod?

[dori_86]

so putting in the lca made the car 1" lower? ive didnt even know/thought that would happen

[spoon]

well i went down to auto pro to get new ones - maybe he thought i wanted the tie rod ends or something

[KE70Drifter]

I just got my sigma LCA's look very similar to the ones above, mine were out of a GH sigma and are now equipt with new ball joints and bushes plus cleaned up. Are they a legal mod?? as i have to get my car passed over the pits.

Iain

[rthy]

Originally posted by spoon@Mar 9 2006, 06:10 AM
well i went down to auto pro to get new ones - maybe he thought i wanted the tie rod ends or something
do u mean the piece that holds the outer tie rod end and inner tie rod end?

i dont think it would be legal since it would give the tyre uneven ware?

[Joel-AE86]

Originally posted by rthy@Mar 13 2006, 04:23 AM
i dont think it would be legal since it would give the tyre uneven ware?
Having your wheels poorly aligned or running too much air in your tyres gives you uneven tyre wear! Are they illegal mods?

I have had 2 police inspections on my car here in SA with sigma arms in my car...Cops have never picked it up. If they questioned it...i'd simply say that the place I took the car to for a wheel aligment made it that way, and that it improves the car's stability through cornering etc etc.

[dori_86]

ha ha ha

[slydar]

Originally posted by DRFTAE86@Jul 1 2005, 03:15 PM
I've done the Sigma arm swap.... total cost of $55(arms & tie rods). +wheel alighnment.

Result: -3 degrees camber both sides. I find steering alot easier and responsive.
Had to flare guards to fit 15 by 7 longchamps. Visually: track increase and camber differenace is very clearly seen.

i've attached a pic. Longchamps aren't fitted. Rims in picture are 15 by 6.5 (25 offset). At that time the guards didn't require flaring.
dont you have ra60 struts though. you need to mention that if you do. cos they have less angle on the stub axle, meaning less camber.

with the gh sigma arms 3* is the least i can get with my tops wouldnt all the way out.

i dont really recomend sigma arms. theyre pretty massive. my guards are flaired alot and also other custom mods to try to get them as wide as i can, and with a 7.5" wide rim at -6 offset it doesnt really fit still.

its a cheap way to get alot of track. but its kinda not the best solution i dont think. they really are a bit too wide.

bretts s13 set up also is not really very road orientated.

[Course_Out]

What size rims would you need to run to clear the s13 brake set up? I'm assuming 15's would be a minimum?

[KE70Drifter]

Yeah 15's are a minium, i was going to do it but i decided to stay with the AE86 gear.