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dale_8888
23rd September 2005, 05:55 PM
Q1: What sort of boost is safe to run on a 4AGZE I am going to modify it with cams and gears, but I might not rebuild I am not sure yet. It will be a daily driver.

Q2: What is a good base supercharger for about 200rwkw?

Q3: How can boost levels be adjusted with a supercharger. A walkthrough would be nice.

Q4:I was thinking to get 200rwkw zorst, extractors, air filter, supercharger, pulley, cams and cam gears, amount of boost and maybe injectors, and of course a computer. Can anyone else add to this list?

Q5: As I am changing to a 4AGZE would it be best to get a computer suited to the 4AGE for an AE86 or a computer for the engine that I will use?

Q6: I am thinking of rebuilding the 4AGZE before I put it in, what do you thing? benefits and drawbacks, costs included please. It would be great if someone who has done a rebuild can fill me in.

Cheers,

Please the number the question(s) that you are answering, cheers.

ae86 slide
23rd September 2005, 06:04 PM
dude, those questions you have asked will involve very detailed answers that will take someone alot of time to write.
i suggest before you plunge into anything expensive research all of your questions yourself using this site, toymods and all other 86 related sites, you will learn alot along the way and definatly save your self some coin, dont rush into these modifications because you heard they would be good, find out yourself, take your time

dale_8888
23rd September 2005, 06:26 PM
Well it would be nice to know a computer to use at least...and what is this SC14 that people speak of? I know stuff about turbo's not super's...can someone give me a link to answer any of my questions or a site for the "SC" model superchargers?

ae86 slide
23rd September 2005, 06:43 PM
ok well you wont use a AE86 4age computer cos the computer has nothing to do with the shell of the car so my guesse would be to use the computer that came with said engine, dunno just an idea.
and heres a link, www.iknownothingaboutcarsbutwantto.com

mattysshop
23rd September 2005, 06:44 PM
(1) i have seen a 4AGTE with 30psi pumped through daily..stock motor..but all the tuning there..he spun a big end after 6 months..still going with that one new bearing!..depends on the tuning..if you go aftermarket ECU then i think 20PSI is a walk in the park for them with the right tune..it's all about controling detonation..

(2) SC-14..off the 1GGZE doesn't bolt right into place..but does fit quite easily..modify the s/C doen pipe to accept a big 4age/3sge 58mm throttle body.. the stock sc14 pully should make that easy..as it's alot smaller than the sc12 pully (smaller s/c pully same effect as big crank pully)

(3) again the pullys..the faster you spin the s/c the more boost..the only way you can reliabley change the boost of a roots type blower is to change to a different size pulley..

(4) well, mine made about 160KW at the flywheel and i had all that..front mount, 58mm throttle body (gze one is like 47mm) and 10.44psi through the sc12..my cams were just some bigport cams though (little more lift and duration than GZE ones) and i didn't play with the timing, which i should have..there would have been a bit more power with a good tune..i had shit load of port work..made a bit of a difference..13.9 to 13.6 on the 400m

(5) the stock GZE ecu uses a 1 bar map sensor..you can get HKS PF-CON etc etc piggy back units..of an Apexi SAFC2 the injectors will support this..if in doubt 7M-GTE injectors are a little bigger, bolt right in place..and plug right in!

i might not have covered everything here..but all this is first hand..none of that my mates mate, who's uncle had a few years ago shit..i am more than happy to help you out with this target http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

Matty

mattysshop
23rd September 2005, 06:50 PM
the GZE pistons are forged, and ceramic coated, and the 4AG heads are one of the best ones toyota/yamaha have made as they are very very detonation resistant..as long as the motor is a runner, i wouldn't crack it open..thats where people run into dramas..if you try and half rebuild one..it won't be the best..but if you go nuts and replace/maching/balance everything..$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

p.s. the inlet manifold on a stock GZE is less than desireable..if you improve it's flow/design i reackon there is about 30hp in it for ya..i didn't think it was that bad till a closer look at the dog leg bends and restrictions!

dale_8888
24th September 2005, 01:19 PM
Cheers Matty,

Yeah I was very hesitant to getting it rebuilt, machined, etc, etc.

I was basically thinking of 4AGZE with SC14 running about 14.5 psi (1 bar)

I was going to change the cams and gears.

Since I am getting a 4AGE equipped 86 do you think that it's a good idea to use the 4AGE head on the 4AGZE block?

BTW AE86-slide, I have done a bit of work in the past!!!

About that computer question...I wasn't really paying attention to what I was writing. http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/unsure.gif.

Matty do you know how much of your injectors you are using, because I will just guess that I might use a little more and if you are like 80% or something of the injector cycle then I think I will look into getting injectors off a 1GGZE

mattysshop
25th September 2005, 08:46 AM
1GGZE injectors are smaller than 4AGZE ones..i don't know what my injector duty was..but nothing that a ultrasonic clean/rebuild, and a decent fuel pump and malpassi etc etc can't fix http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif on 1 bar i'd imagine it being around 80%..

no not really..i don't think you should use the 4AGE head..as the GZE you want is a smallport motor..the AE86 4AGE are bigport ones..(inlet port size) i'll post a few pics of my old setup for ya..you should use all the gear from the GZE half cut..

Matty

mattysshop
25th September 2005, 08:48 AM
pic of it 1 week befor i overheated her and stuffed my beautiful ported head..

mattysshop
25th September 2005, 08:50 AM
you see (there is alot of wires and shit!) how the manifold are completely different..the GZE's manifold..has brackets for the throttle body, that sits befor the s/c..and for the s/c itself..

dale_8888
25th September 2005, 12:54 PM
I dont know what the GZE manifold looked like originally http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/unsure.gif

Also where did you borrow/buy the engine crane from?

add me to msn if you have it so we can talk more.

dale_8888@hotmail.com

Cheers,

dale_8888
25th September 2005, 09:48 PM
Seeing as though you did the conversion can you tell me EXACTLY what needs to be changed/adjusted/removed for this conversion. I noticed that the alternator is off its mount.

mattysshop
25th September 2005, 11:30 PM
i wrote this up a while ago..if you can swing a spanner, and know what your on about, it should be pretty easy..

AE92 4AGZE Transplant into JDM AE86 Coupe


Parts Required:
If your sprinter had a 4AGE in it already factory or transplant half the stuff is there I will put an * next to the stuff that you would already have in your car, and you must re-use.
- 4AGZE front cut (mine was AE92 map version 165hp)
- * 8 bolt flywheel off 100kw/small port 4AGE and at the very least a heavy duty clutch, the ze produces nearly 40% more torque than the GE and carries it from idel to about 5000, then you get the 170 odd hp!
- * RWD 4AGE bell housing (as the starter and the slave cylinder are on opposing sides
- possibly need to change you clutch master cylinder, my old one shit itself with the new clutch
- * EFI fuel pump (most common bosch VL turbo pump) with fittings and hose
- * exhaust manifold from RWD 4AGE or extractors
- a wiring guy (I didn't attempt to connect the 10 kgs!! Of wire I pulled out of the front cut)
- piping for your front mount (do not put the stock one under the bonnet just as much stuffing around as a front mount, and half as effective)
- alternator bracket off a 4A-FE as the alternator needs to be in the same place as on the 4AFE
- some 2" radiator hose, heater hose, and hose clamps , I got away with using most of my old stuff.
- spigot bearing, as FWD cars don't use them..NSK 6001. off the top of my head (same as a 4AC if you needed to confirm)

There are more parts, but you'll get the idea in this guide.

Ok, now, there are many guides on the net about pulling your old 4A-C out and putting a GE or ZE in. and that is like any other engine, undo some bolts rip it out.
Now put your old engine mounts (providing they are good) put them on the ZE in the same place, the exhaust side will go straight on, BUT the intake side is a little tricky. This is nowhere on the net and I had to find out the hard way! The black bracket that connects the sc to the block, remove it, it about 7 inches long, then you will notice when you go to put the engine mount on, the corner of the SC bracket (big cast bracket) needs to be ground off to put the engine mount on, and a little dowl of stainless steel. Then bolt the mount on (sounds dodgy, but it's the only way!).

Then i took all the engine harness out, I had to do this with both cars, and gave it to my wiring guy, he cut and soldered for a couple of days, and I had my loom to plug it in and start it up!

You will notice that the intake just near the throttle body (90 deg bend) needs to be reversed, but it fouls on the body itself, so you need to make a 10mm spacer plate, same holes, and use longer bolts. The throttle cable is up to you how you set it up, I used my existing cable, and turned the link around 180 deg, made a bracket, and I was set!

Another thing to watch out for, there are 2 cooling pipes that stick out the back of the engine one large one, and a small one, and these stick out the back of the engine too far, so I simply cut them a couple of inches short, and get some radiator hose with a 120 deg (not perfect) bend in it for both of them, and ran them under the supercharger to the remote thermostat housing, and connected up the heater etc. I did not connect the cold start choke thing (the 2 little 6mm hose that run from the bottom of the throttle body) as I am in brizvagas, I didn't really have to, it doesn't get cold enough. Also after a while they tend to not work properly and remain shut all the time, (and it will run rich on idle even when the engine is warm) I have absolutely no problem with starting it at 5 am in the morning when there is frost on my windows.

NOTE: all the original hoses from the front cut, and the ones in my car and some straight bits (get them off a commodre vn etc they have really long straight bits with good bends at each end) were used to make this setup, obviously it's all been renewed, but with a bit of ingenuity you can make them all line up.

Make sure that all vacuum lines are plugged of, there are 3 main ones in particular, there are 2x 6mm (from memory) that connect to the power steering. DO NOT CONNECT THESE TOGTHER, block them off individually or it won't idle properly, and there is one other on the pipe that runs down from the throttle, to the s/c, another 6mm hose, block off aswell.

The Alternator bracket off the 4AFE bolt on the side of the block the same way as it did in the corolla you stole it off from the wreckers, all you need is to cut/make/weld an adjuster/slider bracket, doesn't have to be the strongest thing in the world, it just needs to hold a fair bit of tension on the belt, I used some 3mm steel brackets welded together, they were some exhaust brackets I had lying around!!

Once I had the clutch on, the G/box went on, then I put a new timing belt on (always a good idea, although they are a free spinning engine), put my RWD 4AGE timing covers on (they don't a big hole where the engine mount for the FWD) put my polished and filled down 4AGE cam covers on. And the motor and g/box was set ready to go in.

Once you get it in, and bolted up, bolt on the exhaust and then I simply connected the radiator/heater hoses, I didn't actually mount the remote thermostat housing to anything, it just sits there with the hoses holding it in place. DO NOT USE THE CLUTCH FAN, with this water pump, it will stuff it up in a while, it's not made for it, run the thermos, OR use a RWD 4AC/4AGE water pump assembly, you won't need to worry about the remote thermo housing, and you can keep your clutch fan. I used my normal sprinter radiator, which was nearly perfect, just flushed it properly. I recommend if it doesn't look good inside, just take it to a radiator place, and get them to flow test it, you might be up for a new core if its shagged, only about $50 or so. You need to ground the thermostat to the chassis just a piece of good wire will do the trick, that triggers the thermo fans. I am only running the auxiliary a/c fan, just to keep some air moving at light and such. I ran it for about a month, with no fan connected! didn't have any heating problems..but i thought i would put one on anyway..as all the wiring was there..

Matty

dale_8888
26th September 2005, 11:49 AM
That's long, so I'm not reading it while I'm at school.

Cheers thopugh and I thought I would only need the engine and sensor's etc. not the gearbox???

I am seriously confused do I need a gearbox from a GZE or use the GE one? I thought because it is rwd I would need to use the gearbox from the GE.

I will read what you wrote when I get home http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/tongue.gif

Sprinterboy
26th September 2005, 12:14 PM
Hey matty, you dont have any of the intercooler piping or other parts left from the gze do you? I may be interested in some down the track. http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

mattysshop
26th September 2005, 01:59 PM
dale..ahhh..are you serious? FWD corolla GZE gearbox..into an AE86?? what are you smoking? http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif use the t-50 rwd 4A g/box..the JDM ones apparently have a stronger 2/3rd combo..i can't confirm this though..i have broken both types with my GZE..

pat..no i sold all the piping on toymods..to chooney ae86 or something like that..all i have left is..ahhh..i don't think i have anything left! http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif sorry!

Matty

Matty

Sprinterboy
26th September 2005, 04:19 PM
Ah thanks anyway mate, who did the piping for you? rough price?

Thanks http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

dale_8888
26th September 2005, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by Mattysshop@Sep 26 2005, 12:59 PM
FWD corolla GZE gearbox..into an AE86??
Yeah...thats what I thought, but you said front cut which i thought included the gearbox http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/tongue.gif

I pretty much knew it was weird, but I thought front cuts and half cuts were the same thing and half cuts include the gearbox.

You're trippin me out http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/tongue.gif I was thinking WTF when you said front cut, thats why I asked...just to be sure...sorry for being retarded:P

Sprinterboy
26th September 2005, 06:02 PM
just guessing here but id say rwd frontcuts have no gearboxes while fwd's do as the gearbox is in the bay. a rwd halfcut would include the gearbox. anyone confirm?

dale_8888
26th September 2005, 06:13 PM
Yeah that sounds good so half cut includes both engine and gearbox but the front cut only includes gearbox on fwd cars? Yeah that makes total sense. Since the rwd gearbox is not really in the front of the car. Cheers for the insight...coz im retarded :S

Hang on a second I am buying a fwd engine and matty said the g/b didn't come with his front cut...so how does that work?

ae86 slide
26th September 2005, 08:34 PM
this is what i was talking about at the start of the thread, do your research, or learn the hard way, handing over large sums of money for someone else to do everything.
not having a go mate, just trying to save you some hassle and coin.
jason

drft86
26th September 2005, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by ae86 slide@Sep 23 2005, 05:43 PM
ok well you wont use a AE86 4age computer cos the computer has nothing to do with the shell of the car so my guesse would be to use the computer that came with said engine, dunno just an idea.
and heres a link, www.iknownothingaboutcarsbutwantto.com
is that an actuall site http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/dry.gif , because i went there and it said that the sit could not be found

Sprinterboy
26th September 2005, 09:15 PM
lol, no but heres the real one:

www.iamgullible.com

ae86 slide
26th September 2005, 09:21 PM
nah keep trying its there, try.au,
but jase you need to be looking up, south east QLD industrial road widths first,

dale_8888
26th September 2005, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by ae86 slide@Sep 26 2005, 07:34 PM
or learn the hard way, handing over large sums of money for someone else to do everything.
not having a go mate, just trying to save you some hassle and coin.
jason
What? spend lots of money learning the hard way and your trying to save me money??? What are you smoking?

Anyway I am saving money by asking people on this forum, http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/tongue.gif

mattysshop
27th September 2005, 08:13 AM
really there isn't much to learn hey..i pretty much outlined the installation in my previous thread..modding a GZE is like modding anyother engine..make it breath better..it wil make more power..

dale_8888
27th September 2005, 08:43 AM
There is muhc to learn, but the best you can learn is through hands on/experimenting stuff and since I am going to do it myself, I should no more than I did before. How long did it take you to do the conversion just so that I can say how long I am going to be borrowing an engine crane for. Also how much was your GZE? I have seen them in the Hot 4s mags for "From $1400" on the SSS automotive website. What you think? Adelaidejap.com.au is trying to sell a AE101 half cut for $2850 which I thought was a bit rich!!! Yeah I suppose I should try more stuff. I am going to change over the struts and carby on my charade:S coz the secondaries in the carby don't work LMAO!!! http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/laugh.gif

mattysshop
27th September 2005, 11:09 AM
i paid $2000 for mine about 18mts ago..i have had my 86 for a few years now..alot longer than some of these takumi wannabes (not you)..that price is for a full half cut..thats what you want..so you get all the ecu/accesories.wiring etc etc..plus you can sell all the left over gear..the E58 fwd GZE box can fetch about $250..drive shafts..$180-$200..brakes/struts $200..dash/cluster/steering wheel etc etc can all be sold afterwards..and $50 worth of steel in the front cut itself..

my conversion took me 3 days..from taking the GE out..to the GZE in and on a tow truck to Anthony Kellam's shop..i would have had it done sooner..but taking the motor out of the front cut was a bit of a c*** http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

Matty

dale_8888
27th September 2005, 01:37 PM
Cheers mate, but where did you get your engine from coz the cheapest I found was $2850.

Well I have had no experience so I guess to expect about 2-4 weeks.

Do you think I should buy the other parts before I get the engine, after, or put it on and get some custom made after the engine has been put in to make sure that it all works and fits!

Sprinterboy
30th September 2005, 04:16 PM
you use the T-50 box that you already have in your sprinter, it bolts onto the engine.

mattysshop
2nd October 2005, 09:53 AM
what other parts?? there are no other parts! just some intercooler piping, which needs to be made on the car anyway..and the wiring..which took anthony all of a few hours (over a week or so ofcourse!) if you already have a 4age in your car that makes it even easier, because you have an EFI fuel system setup..if you don't get a few metres of EFi hose and a inline fuel pump, most common to use is a VL bosch one..

Matty