S13 coilovers into AE86

[Gilly]

[attachment=5301:attachment]i've decided to do a tech article on this as i'm recieving a few pm's on how to do it. i didn't buy the parts they came out of a car i already owned so i can't give an accurate estimate as to how much this would cost you.

you will require the following parts


s13 front coilovers

ae86 camber tops

s13 front brakes complete with hub arrangement can use CA or SR

S13 LCA's.

RA60 series rackends

pair of rack boots

Bluebird TRX tierod ends. (model 910, series 1, 2 or 3)

8 nissan mag wheel nuts (as wheel studs have different thread)

installation is self explanitory pull your old s*** out, installation is the opposite. fit the 86 cambertops to the s13 coilover and fit to strut towers. redrill the crossmember hole that the LCA bolts to, to 13mm size as the sprinter LCA bolt is smaller in diameter. the LCA can move around if the bolt doesn't "fill" the crush tube in the bush. so i highly recommend you use the S13 bolt and drill the mount hole on the crossmember out, it's piss easy anyway.

fit up the lower control arm, and bolt on the hub complete with brakes, then bolt the hub to the coilovers.

you must change the rack ends to *A6* series ones (MA61, RA60, SA63 etc) or not enough thread goes into the tierod, effectively decreasing its strength quite dramatically EDIT: after wheel alignment this wasn't as bad as first expected. you can use the 86 tierod ends but the taper is slightly different so there will be play = noise. *A6* series and RA40 tierod ends are the ones to use.

installing the new rack ends is easy enough, remove your old rack boots and bend back the locking tabs where the rack joins the rackends. undo the 86 ones and replace with th *A6* ones. i used loctite on the threads as i damaged my lock washers so couldn't refit them.

fit up some new rack boots (FYI i used repco universal rack boots didn't have to trim them or anything and they were $14 ea) thread your tierods on as far as they will go, bolt them up to your steering arm on the hub.

you will have to redrill the holes for castor rods if you use a S13 arm, not a big deal though. just line the castor rod up with the arm mark your holes and drill away.

by now everything should be about right, use the s13 brake hoses they will thread into the 86 solid line fine. if you choose to run CA brakes you can keep the stock 86 13/16ths master cylinder and you are restricted to a rim size of no less than 14 inches. if you want to run SR brakes you are limited to 15 inch wheels and need to upgrade to a 15/16ths master cylinder, you can use S13, R32,33 or 34 abs masters (abs masters only have 2 ports) you will have to change solid brake lines to suit this master. bleed it all throw some rims on using nissan wheel nuts as the thread is different to toyota, and drop it. set your heights (if adjustable height coilovers are used) and get a wheel alignment.

you have gained

front height adjustablity
more steering lock
bigger vented brakes
track increase (est 20-30mm per side)


it's a cost efective option if you don't mind going nissan, i feel a lot of hachi drivers are purists though and like to stick with the toyota bloodline. so you don't see it done that often.

picture below shows camber set to max, using a 15x8-4mm superlite rim, guards needed to be flared and max camber applied to fit rim under guard, car is lower then a normal sprinter though so less camber could be run at a higher ride height.

[Gilly]

JZX81 LCA (as used in my car, S13 fits exactly the same)

[attachment=5297:attachment]

shot showing where holes need to be drilled for castor rods

[attachment=5424:attachment]

SR20 brakes (no backing plates) filling a 15 inch rim

[attachment=5425:attachment]

This is the tab you need to bend back a bit + you can see the seam in the background that it could contact. i think differnet brands of coilovers may have different brackets

[attachment=5426:attachment]

[Gilly]

86 vs S13 brakes

[Jesse86]

nice write up man also if your to cheap to get sprinter camber tops you can use silvia camber tops they just need to be redrilled.so do afew trial measurements(i think it was about 117mm each way from the centre hole) mark up the spot and drill away. http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[mc68]

yeah...if your a freakin dodgy cheap arse geeza...dont drill holes in the strut mounts dammit !

[Dori_Dori]

nice write up
and good work
looks mad http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/2thumbs.gif

Cheers

[.wolfwood]

i wish i did this conversion instead of getting suspention for the ae86, got a way better selection of coilovers for silvia's. also you can use and can get even better brake upgrages that bolt on if need be.

[Stomp86]

very nice mate...im in the midst of doing this now...but just one question..

any idea how much longer s13 arms are then the ones u used? and how much thread did you have left on the tie rod end?

i know that s13 lca's give heaps of camber so they must be longer

Adam

[Gilly]

sourcing them is the hard part, i don't think many people knew you could use them.

JZX81 arm is 40cm long

there is heaps of thread in the tirod when you use RA60 rack ends, if you use 86 rackends you only have like 5 threads in the tierod so don't use them.

[Stomp86]

40 cm from where to where?

and arent cressida lca's same as jzx81?

[Gilly]

from the furtherest point to point = 40cm , measured in car this morning.

i don't know about the cressida arm, but if you find out it is let me know so this can be updated.

share the wealth!!!!!!

[Stomp86]

i just measured an s13 arm and its also 40 cm exactly...and much easier to get then jzx ones

[Gilly]

hmmmm there you go then!!!! the only drama would be the bush end it may be too wide to fit in the crossmember, there must be a reason why they aren't used. let me know if it fits the x member, i might pull my jzx arm out tomorrow and measure it again.

[Stomp86]

as far as i know people dont use s13 ones because of excesive camber...but if they are same as jzx ones then it should be fine...the camber on your car looks good...not over the top

[Gilly]

they are to wide at the crossmember end to fit, i've just read, ad was that measurement you gave from the furtherest point to point, as s13 arms i'm sure a re longer than that.

[Jesse86]

ive got s13 arms in mine

[bahnugget]

uncut ones? how did you make them fit?

[Jesse86]

i bought them that way they had s13 written on them and bolted up easy enough no sign of welding i can see
i'll ask about them tonight if i can and post my findings up later http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/tup.gif

[Gilly]

edit: added some more pics on page one

[86er]

has anyone considered using a coilover from s13 or another macpherson strut design, cutting off the mounting plates and welding bottem of coilover ontoo bottem of ae86 stru to create a coilover setup similar to the more expensive japanese setups like kei office where shock height adjust independent of spring

so from this
http://i15.ebayimg.com/01/i/07/05/a4/cb_1.JPG
to

[Gilly]

no, i like to steer clear of fabricating stuff!! bolt in FTW!!

looks good, are they yours?

i liked the "full" S13 conversion as you get a track increase as well plus the brake upgrade, even if you just use CA brakes it's still a decent upgrade over ADM stuff.

wouldn't converting S13 stuff that way be the same as using a weld on coilover kit?

hows does the shock height adjustment work?

[psi_72]

hey im just curious, im a bit dumbfounded as to how u actually gain more lock with the s13 setup, i think i have an idea but i still cant figure it out, ive been lookin at pics of both setups but its got me, ohwell cheers, as i will be doin this upgrade to go with my sr20 http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/tongue.gif i mainly want it for the brakes and the fact i can get the coilovers easily enough lol
cheers in advance mate
scott

[Gilly]

^^ it's all in the steering arm, they are shorter like an AE86 p/s arm.

[86er]

Nahh not mine i wish those are some of the Kei office coilovers off Yahoo japan auctions


but Im not really asking which u prefer i can understande why u wanna use s13 stuff but im wondering if u guys think it can work

as far as how shock height works u just turn the bottom but instead of the one under spring it lowers or raises shock into the bottem casing thereby lowering without compressing spring

[hilux08]

hey stomp86, have u fitted the silvia lca's to the sprinter crossmember? did they fit?

on a funny not i priced up some brakes and hubs and s13 lca's. the parts guy is charging $95 for a rigth hand lca and $125 for a left hand side one, he reckons that left hand side ones are hard to come by cause everybody damages them and there in demand.

[SR20_AE86]

i am running s13 control arms, just gota drill out the hole where the lca and crossmember meet

[DRFT - 86]

Im very happy about this as I was racking my brain on how to do this and pass engineering....... looks like that will be a whole lot easier now...

[RobertoX]

the whole LH LCA more $$$ is true, every homo with an s13 drifts on the street where else do you bend control arms except gutters!

[EVOSTi]

is anyone aware of a balljoint that presses into the 86 arm but has the correct taper for the s13 hubs? ive heard rumours of TR magna, is this true?

[rallystanza]

Last night i compared the lengths of a S13 LCA and a standard Ae86 LCA.

The S13 LCA was about 40mm lomger, thats a lot longer, however the S13 LCA was only about 10mm longer than a sigma arm.

Can those who have use a standard S13 LCA withthis conversion detail how much camber they have now, i would have though it would be exessive.

[Hen is a total nutcase]

In the search for more factory LCAs to suit, it would be great if anyone who has done this conversion can measure their LCA from chassis bolt hole to centre of ball joint and post up the measurement. And also what camber this arm gave. This will be very helpful for the next trip to Pick-A-Part.

The BJ314 balljoint is a good fit in the S13 knuckles and this balljoint is found in many Toyota LCAs (MX62, MX73, MX83, JZX81, MA61 and more) so finding one which is the correct length would be great.

Hen

[rallystanza]

Or Adam could just tell us which one it is...:-P

[Gilly]

40mm is a lot but doesn't cause excessive camber as the silvia hub to coilover arrangement is different to the full strut tube of an ae86. yes the arm is long but the hub steps in where it bolts to the coilover, therefore you don't get bullshit camber due to the strut be put on a huge angle. if for example you found a suitable arm the same length as a 86 item you would probably end up with pos camber!

[attachment=5822:attachment]

you can see what i mean above (not the best pic) if the coilover followed the current profile and bolted to the actual arm AE86 style you would get crazy unusable camber. but as i said earlier due to the staggered effect the hub produces, you are provided with ample usable camber

[rallystanza]

So could you get a measurement of your LCA from centre of balljoint to bolt hole for cross member.

And how much camber have you ended up with?

Thanks mate.

Jeremy

[rallystanza]

Gong by some rough measurments i took just then, the S13 lower conmtrol arm is 350mm from centre of ball joint to centre of Xmember bolt hole. Standard sprinter is 310mm.

Jez

[Hen is a total nutcase]

PS, Evo, I was just checking a few things, and the TR Magna uses a BJ285 (along with TN, TM and TP, also a bunch of FWD Lancers and Evos). Info is here (http://www.georgestock.co.nz/catalogue/CAMELOT/CAMELOTcatalogue/html/CAMELOTcatalogue_32.htm?gInitialPosX=10px&gInitialPosY=10px&gZoomValue=150)

I measured up a BJ285 a while ago and it almost suits RA60 steering arms, so will be too small for S13 hubs. Info here (http://www.toymods.net/forums/showpost.php?p=122256&postcount=13)

Hen

[Stomp86]

i just did the conversion...still have to get wheel alighnment and stuff...

early bluebird tie rod ends

ra60 rack ends

s13 lca

s13 disk with s14 caliper

s13 coilie

ae86 camber plate

the s13 lca kind of fits...u need to grind about 2 mm off each end off the crush tube in the bush....no drama there...and then if its not enough just tap out the xmember a little...it slotted straight in...

now...camber...oh camber http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

since my coilovers have the top hole sloted i tried getting as much camber as i could...and um...i think even v8 supercars would of been put to shame http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif but that was just being silly....i loosened those bolts and now its accceptable even with my camber plates set to max...so camber is no issue

the track has been significally increased though...i have 7.5 0 offset 15's on the front and they stick out the guards about 40 mm....which looks cool but is totaly illegal which is no issiue as i have some jblood overfenders coming but the height even with the coilover at max height is a bit of an issue...as i only have about 1 cm of gap between the tyre and guard but it only rubbs a little

now the real cool thing...the ammount of lock you get is beyond a joke...but i still have to test that out...

all up was easy to do took a couple hours on a hoist

Adam

[Gilly]

if you could put up some pics and get an accurate camber reading that would be super helpful!

glad to hear it worked for you

the lock is good!

[psi_72]

when are you gonna go get an alignment stomp86? hmmmm, how come your tires gilly sits in your guard perfectly and stomps sits out about 40mm? thats the difference in controll arms and rim offsets i spose!? what width and offset rim do u run gilly? cheers
scott

[Gilly]

i'm needing to confirm measurements of my arms.

also offsets differ i have 15x7.5 +10mm rims, measured them yesterday

also in my pics camber is set all the way neg, at close to zero camber my rims hang out the guards about 15-20mm and they have had a slight flare job maybe 5mm at most.

[Stomp86]

got it aligned today...got camber set to 2.5 which is more then u think...now it rubs on guards real bad...getting guards flared (read : hammering out guards) tommorow but all in all its pretty damn good there is no chance for any rubbing anywhere except guards so im pretty happy...probably up for some 8 inch wheels on the front soon as soon as its all sorted...btw people at alighnment places will look at you funny if u ask for like 6 deg camber... http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

hey gilly, how much travel do u get out of your coilovers...do u basically have to set them to max height to get the car up enough to not be in the guards?

Adam

[Gilly]

yep not far off full, go back to the first couple of pages you can see it there.

8kg springs = not much movement so travel not a huge issue, however seeing you asked i have no shit about 2 inches of shockie travel before it his the coilover bumpstop, so more than enough.

[Hen is a total nutcase]

So stomp,

Does your current 2.5 deg of camber make use of the slotted upper mounting hole in the coilover? Or are the two coilover mount bolts in their normal position and the camber adjusted only with the strut top?

Thanks
Hen

[Stomp86]

yeah coilie is pulled out to minimum camber setting then adjusted with strut top hat...i dont think its on full adjustment either...i still havent driven the car for any significant ammount of time as it rubs real bad....but ill post after today because i should have it finished tonite...

Adam

[Hen is a total nutcase]

Thanks Adam. That sorts out some questions I still had.

Hen

[Gilly]

did anyone change wheel studs at all? from nissan to toyota ones? i just want to know which ones i should use. i don't have any toyota studs here to compare them with, can someone tell me if they look like they'll fit.

[rallystanza]

Gilly, the studs will be able to be changed and in my opinion Toyota has better thread pitch at 12x1.50, as it is courser and its harder to cross thread. I had a stanza rally car and was changing a lot of wheels and fucked sooo many studs because of the finer thread at 12x1.25, being in a rush and all.

You can change to toyota and i would, as you will also have toyota all round again.

[Joel-AE86]

^^^Werd up.

It sucks having different wheel nuts for the front and rear on a hachi.

Toyota studs FTW http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

[EVOSTi]

stomp, without going back through the thread cause my net is stuffed, are your coilovers adjustable height with the bottom mount, or only with the bottom spring perch? if only with the spring perch, are they all the way up just to give acceptable ride height?

[rallystanza]

bottom brakcet height adjustable.

Means you can adjust the heaight and preload independantly. this style is FTW!!!!!

Jez

Oh and Kev, your internet is a phag.

[Bensonius]

Hmmmm this would make a BIG brake upgrade (ie 4pots R33-S14-Z32) So much easier..woh. And i get the whole staggered hub and coilover thing. Makes perfect sense. This would have to be the best brake/coilover arrangment/conversion on a 86 ever.

[Gilly]

^^ good i thought i wasn't making sense!! i can't believe it hasn't been as popular in the past, it makes a lot of sense. i'm now going "lowest dicking around spec" by fitting Ca brakes so i don't have to change masters and lines and can run smaller wheels.

[Brenton 86]

Hell yeah, best topic ever, gilly for pm for instigating it.

This will help alot of people.

[rallystanza]

Me and the nutcase chicken are waiting delivery of coilovers and camber tops.

Jez

[EVOSTi]

thats the easy part, im still wanting to know what you decide to go with regarding the control arms http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

[Hen is a total nutcase]

Yes S13 coilover (HSD HR, thanks to Jeremy and the boys at Otomoto) and 86 camber top.

We have the coilovers and camber tops will be turning up soon.

Going to try the MX62 arms first, but if that doesn't work then may use S13 arms.

Hopefully we can test fit it all in the next week or two, though it depends on work and time.

Hen

[redspoontah]

just wondering.. how much all up this conversion usually cost ???

[Gilly]

2nd hand parts you should be able to do it under a grand, and thats with everything including brakes.

[Dxaqta]

yeah i agree with u gilly... i just need to find some ontrol arms and 86 camber tops

[psi_72]

under a grand huh, hmm i thought it may be a bit more than that, tho thats at a guess, i ASSUMED lol that the brake setup wouldnt necesarrily be all that cheap from say a wreckers, spose ive never bought brakes from them but i didnt think they would be cheap, by the time you buy the brakes, coilovers, camber tops, controll arms, rack ends, tie rods, you could easily go over that grand, especially if new, hell u can spend more than that easily on a new set of coilovers alone. second hand tho hmmmm id guess it could be done if one shops around for the deal. I cannot wait to do this conversion, tho i need money and time is money lol
sorry for ranting on

scott

[Julz01]

yea ive been pricing it up and it should come under 1k the major killer is the coilovers, because I dont want to buy a really cheap set and then find out that they need to be rebulit straight away , even though it would most probably be. brakes should be around $150-$200 or less depending on how much they person needs the cash, then tie rods wheel bearings get them through work so get a bit of a discount.

[Dxaqta]

1 GRAND FOR ALL THE BENFITS OF THIS SETUP IS A SHIT LOAD CHEAPER THEN USING SPECFIC 86 PARTS

[hilux08]

i priced some stuff up the other week with second hand parts.

sr20 complete wheel hubs and brakes $125 each

S13 lca's left $125 and right $95

S13 coilovers about $500 depending on make whatever, not too sure on them cause i already have a set.

and if you need use the other lca's bluebird ball joint new from supercheap are $30 each.

hope it helps

[Gilly]

i had a wheel alignment done yesterday, using the RA60 rack ends and RA40 tierod ends, the tierod is pretty much wound all the way onto the rack end almost "bottoms out" that was set to zero toe. i'm happy with that and now have pretty thick rackend / tierod arrangement.

i am using a streetable 2.1 * neg camber, why the .1?

it was put on the aligner and thats what it measured both sides so yeah we left it as is!! thats with the camber top in the almost middle position, i'll get a pic up soon to explain it better.

[bahnugget]

the brake setup wouldnt necesarrily be all that cheap from say a wreckers, spose ive never bought brakes from them but i didnt think they would be cheap, by the time you buy the brakes, coilovers, camber tops, control arms, rack ends, tie rods, you could easily go over that grand, especially if new, hell u can spend more than that easily on a new set of coilovers alone.[/b]

when ya think about it its not that inconcievable.. wreckers ya get ripped off but if ya cant find CA18 S13 brakes and hubs for cheap then you belong in hospital.

if you're cheap you can use S13 camber tops just slot one of the holes in ur strut tower (who cares what people say, you wont lose enough strength for it to be a big deal) coilovers shouldn't cost much more than 600 bucks or so used for good ones considering its just the front two you need.. RA40 rack ends and 60 tie rods cost butt all... so around a grand seems right to mee.

Good stuff Gilly, you're using chaser control arms hey? good info http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/tup.gif

[Hen is a total nutcase]

Pricelist:
- New S13 coilovers - $800
- New AE86 camber tops and top hats - $250
- S13 hubs and LCAs - $100
- SR brakes - free
- MX62 LCAs - $50

New balljoints, rack ends and tie rods- Probably $1-200
New pads - Probably $100

Total: Around 1400-1500 for a basically new setup.

Hen

[crazy86]

Did the MX62 arms work? or are you back to the drawing board on that one?

[Joel-AE86]

Decent 2nd hand S13 coilovers shouldn't cost more than 450pr with S13 tops.

If you're dodgy, drill your strut tops to fit S13, or sell them off to someone with an S13 and buy some AE86 tops.

[Dxaqta]

joel just remeber if u cut to fit the s13 camber top u will also have to cut ur strut brace to match the new setup

[DRFT - 86]

ok Ive decieded this conversion is high/er on the priority list now, so will be looking to do this in the next few weeks......

[DRFT - 86]

just put a deposit on some CST coilovers........ wont be here for another 5 weeks though...... cant wait to do this shit now...

[Hen is a total nutcase]

For fitment pics, look here (http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=12042)

Hen

[Stomp86]

i just came back from collie drift day....finally got to try this set up in "anger"

OMG steve irvin is dead!!! just heard it on the news!!! whoa thats a shock....anyways

all i can say is that its superb....it felt like every time i cornered the car was laughing at me for not pushing it....when someone spun in front of me i stopped before there was any chance of a close call....the extra lock helped and besides being a bit of a change at first and taking a little time to adjust to the steering in general im very happy...just need to fix a freshly broken engine mount and that little unijoint before the steering rack as there is a bit of a dead spot in the middle but yeah...for anyone with the funds i highly recomend this conversion

and i am currently looking for an upgrade to that squishy bit between the steering wheel and seat thats letting the car down http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

any my conversion cost me just over 500 all up....for second hand parts

Adam


anyways...

[Brenton 86]

Cheers Hen, but i still cant decide i aslo have both types of lca sittin around which did you like more or would use.

[redspoontah]

wats Crush inner tubeS ?

[Brenton 86]

a tube that sheilds the bolt and is surrounded by a rubber bush

[rallystanza]

The MX62 arm will give you 10mm more track. You will also redrill the castor arm and swaybar link bush hole. The MX62 arm is also heaps easier to obtain is a lot cheaper. In my opinion a better option. I will however be going the the S13 arm as I cant have too much extra track, my wheel is in the picture sticking out of the guard. My new wheels will stick out even further, so the S13 is for me to lose some track.

If your not sure what a crush tube is, google it or dont start the conversion.

Jez

Jez

[Hen is a total nutcase]

If you can't write your name only once at the end of a post, give your jack to Hen.

... oh hold on, you basically have.

A valid point though.

Hen

[Brenton 86]

Jez, i was assuming u would need to redrill caster & sway holes for both types? Are you saying the holes for the s13 actually line up? I also checked Hen's page an it only refers to changing the holes with the cres arm aswell.

[psi_72]

ok so just to verify, do the mx62 cressida arm does fit?
and it is 10mm longer than the s13 arms is that what your saying?
man i cant wait to do this, everyone that has contributed to this thread are
great people for goin into the trouble of finding out for others,
they dont just think about themselves! http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/2thumbs.gif BIG thanks
scott

[86sp]

Put 13 stuff in my 86 a few days ago. Including s13 arms. The holes have to be redrilled for castor rod and swaybar link, and inner bush crush tube grinded. It doesnt quite work with standard guards as the only way to make it drivable is to run stupid camber. I knew this but as with everything I do, I do it anyway.. The track increase is great, even with 15.6.5 +20. Not sure why you'd want to run the even longer cressida arms?.. What sort of camber are you hoping for with these?

[Hen is a total nutcase]

For both types of arm you will have to drill holes for the caster rod. I thought you could reuse the swayar link hole on the S13 arms but may be wrong. Definitely needs redrilling on MX62.

I'm keen on MX62 due to the track increase. Camber will be adjusted to suit and guards flared as needed. Geometry problems could result but I'll look at that once assembled.

Hen

[EVOSTi]

still slightly on topic, but does anyone have any links regards flaring front and rear guards on the ae86? i need to do both and havent even been able to find generic "how to's" on the net yet.
ive seen a bit on this site regarding the rears, but more over the top than i was hoping for.

[rallystanza]

SO Kev, I take it you saw Joels description of some of it in his members ride thread?

Jez

Jez

Jez

Jez

[EVOSTi]

jez, yeah i read a bit in his thread, but i dont wanna go that far.
see i put an E series in the rear (dont ask) and its increased the track enough that the tyres scrub the horizontal lip in the arches. and since i havent been arsed to fold the lip under yet, when i had a full car the left tyre has done its own form of flarring in that the crease visible outside the guard has been smoothed out by the tyre forcing the guard outwards as the diff is pushed across by the panhard rod. id post a pick but ive hijacked enough http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

[Stomp86]

mate talk about making this complicated.....give some people specific instructions and they write a book about asking how to ask questions....this thread needs to be locked down or like all the other info its gonna be burried under a pile of useless shite....and no one will ever find it again!!! argh!

stop being lazy people....read from the start of the post....but here is a quick run down

crush tube....metal tube that goes inside bush...bolt goes through it...prevents x-member or lca being "crushed" when u tighten it

now...onto the more complicated bit...ill go slow so every1 can keep up...i would draw diagrams but people will just query how to read them and what to open them with and another line of questions....

using s13 arm...u can get streatable camber but masive track increase...swaybar hole can be reused....one hole for the caster rod needs to be redrilled....the front one....just mark the bottom of the front caster rod stud with paint...then stick it in the rear hole and it marks front hole...easy...

now use whatever combo of steering components u wish...i used ra60 rack ends and early bluebird tie rod ends...all bolts up

thats all there is to it, please just try doiing this...its a lot easier when u just do it

btw here is some pix from last event....there is a couple of my car with the conversion done...u can see the increase in steering lock...and how i flared my guards, my car is the gold hatchi

http://www.driveline.net.au/gallery.php?ga...9cef30f34819680 (http://www.driveline.net.au/gallery.php?gallery_id=35&PHPSESSID=733013f33780139f79cef30f34819680)

thanx

Adam

sorry for being rude btw..just finished work, pm me if u want more info

[DRFT - 86]

sounds like a piece of kizake.......

[VIC_AE86]

Sound a whole lot easyier than I thought..

[Julz01]

Just so people knew the legalities of the conversion have to come into play because I know that In victoria that your are not able to modify the LCAs and still be road worthy with out having it engineered. I am looking in to this conversion and have collected a couple of parts for it but now im considering other wise as I do not want to get these installed and then have to take them back out because of a defect note. As drilling the hole in a lca is still a modification.

I know the majourity of people would have already thought of this or dont care but there would also be some people that might not have conidered this. Ill probably end up putting them in and then just changing later on down the track anyway or get them engineered

[Dxaqta]

dont get me wrong this setup will work but i believe an ae86 setup would be better

no i have not drive a car with this setup.... i was contemplating doing it.. i did research.....

an as for the adverse effects of it just have a think about what has to bee done to make it work

every action has an equal and opposite reaction

[Granto]

dont get me wrong this setup will work but i believe an ae86 setup would be better

no i have not drive a car with this setup.... i was contemplating doing it.. i did research.....

an as for the adverse effects of it just have a think about what has to bee done to make it work

every action has an equal and opposite reaction[/b]

This seems like an emotional arguement with no evidence. If you're not going to actually contribute, "I found I couldn't get the camber/caster settings I wanted!" "The Ackerman was way off and the wheels turned in bad ratio to eachother causing heavy oversteer!".. then..


Dude i think you should shut ur mouth if you dont have anything to contirbute, no one wants to hear your pointless banter....[/b]

Could be good to listen to.


I am looking in to this conversion and have collected a couple of parts for it but now im considering other wise as I do not want to get these installed and then have to take them back out because of a defect note. As drilling the hole in a lca is still a modification.[/b]

T3 have a product, a modified castor arm I believe. To work with the AE86 with an S13 LCA. So you don't need to drill the LCA. It's also adjustable.

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/114515.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/114516.jpg

To quote:


It bolts right up ....so all u have to do is narrow the s13 control arm bushing 1mm on each side

the price should be around $200 bucks for the Hybrid Ae86/S13 tension rods

here his contact info:

TechnoToyTuning
ggtyler@yahoo.com
(530) 626-7334[/b]

That'd be $200 US I'd say.. so around $260.

Grant.

[DRFT - 86]

T3 seem to have all the right shit.... looks like a worthy investment for anyone doing this conversion......

[Dxaqta]

grant good find on that but do t3 still stock these

how do u solve the swaybar mount

also the angle of the control arm

[DRFT - 86]

Im looking at the T3 arms now and they seem to have AE86 ends on them.... ie: curved instead of straight like the ones pictured above....

I sent Gab an enquiry anyhow to see whats the go....

[Dxaqta]

can you post up the link for this product on the T3 website i couldnt find it

[crazy86]

Dxaqta, if its the angle on the controll arm your referring to caused by the original tension rod being "wrong" then this will fix that. If its the horisontal angle of the controll arm caused by the ride height (which can cause bump steer issues), then this wont fix it, and the only way to fix that is to relocate the inboard mounting point for the LCA. which means modifying....which means engineering....if this is important for you. A lot of people out there are happy to drive around on 86's without the RCA's, but most of these people are not serious racecar drivers, and the problem with the s13 LCA angle would not be an issue for them.

[Granto]

can you post up the link for this product on the T3 website i couldnt find it[/b]

the product isn't listed on the website.

Half the stuff they do isn't on the website.

Kind of the nature of a place that does some more er custom things.

Speak to Gabriel Tyer of T3 about your concerns, I'm sure he can sort something out.

What kind of ackerman are you after? What kind of steering angle are you after? It really depends on what you want hey..


Dxaqta, if its the angle on the controll arm your referring to caused by the original tension rod being "wrong" then this will fix that. If its the horisontal angle of the controll arm caused by the ride height (which can cause bump steer issues), then this wont fix it, and the only way to fix that is to relocate the inboard mounting point for the LCA. which means modifying....which means engineering....if this is important for you. A lot of people out there are happy to drive around on 86's without the RCA's, but most of these people are not serious racecar drivers, and the problem with the s13 LCA angle would not be an issue for them.[/b]

There are no kneesan S13 rca's available?..

[crazy86]

PS, i think the T3 arms are not an off the shelf item, they are the front of the AE86 tension rod, with the rest of the s13 tension rod making up the rest. They probably make these up to order.

You could do this with locally available product if you want to.

[Dxaqta]

Dxaqta, if its the angle on the controll arm your referring to caused by the original tension rod being "wrong" then this will fix that. If its the horisontal angle of the controll arm caused by the ride height (which can cause bump steer issues), then this wont fix it, and the only way to fix that is to relocate the inboard mounting point for the LCA. which means modifying....which means engineering....if this is important for you. A lot of people out there are happy to drive around on 86's without the RCA's, but most of these people are not serious racecar drivers, and the problem with the s13 LCA angle would not be an issue for them.[/b]

yeah i was refering to bump steer

[DRFT - 86]

Ahh I see now, maybe Gab will have something else to offer me when he returns my email....

Thats another thing I always wondered.... regarding this set-up and the use of RCA's as I didnt think AE86 ones would be compatible, and as you reckon there are none made for Nissan then thats pretty fucked.....

[DRFT - 86]

Email returned and he said they make the custom ones up on an order basis... they are the same price as the ones they have on the website... $195.... plus the cheapest shipping which is $30 so all up in AU its around $320 to your door....

[psi_72]

yea but with the whole rca thing, the controll arm on the s13 setup sits up higher to the hub. as in on the 86 the balljoint is on the bottom of the strut and the s13 is on the brake bracket is it not? not near the bottom of the strut.. tho i could be wrong i spose whats the opinions?

[Dxaqta]

rcas for s13 is no where as easy as for an 86....
you would need to machine up a spacer that goes between the ball joint on the control arm and connect to the hub.... then youd have to make it work..... in other words alot of fucking around and money.....

see this conversion is more complex then most people think....


also another factor is wheather the standard control arm mount to the chassis can handle the extra force put on it from a longer control arm

[hilux08]

that t3 castor arm looks the goods, wouldnt mind one of them.

[86sp]

Just had my s13 arms cut down 30mm. So still around 30mm longer than the 86 arms. Just swapping the rackends back today but so far it looks pretty good camber and track wise. This is with standard guards btw. I cant really see any adverse effects at this stage..

[rallystanza]

dxaqta,

PM me your ideas. I want to see what you're thinking.

Jez

[Stomp86]

the bump steer is not so bad, with 8 kg springs the suspention moves bugger all anyway so its only a problem on the roads...on the track where there is no damn pot holes its sweet as, just have to be more alert when driving on the road then a nanna....hold the wheel with both hands if ur a big girl.....and in the end....eventually in modifying a car u always come to a point where the car becomes cumbersome to drive on the roads...and becomes a track car...and a whole new level begins http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

some people bitch and moan about how the lsd they put in made the car hard to park...or the steering is heavy when u put wide tyres on...or they they have to slow down over speed bumps when the car is lowered....all i can say is ....NO S#IT!!! and f'n deal with it....first corner i take on a race track at each meeting just puts the bigest grin on my face....thats what its all about...not bump steer or harder steering.....if u have never been on a track or in a car thats silly on the road maybe u should just stfu! http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif and trying to sounds like a damn profesor on here and not knowing jack isnt helping ur cause...

and this conversion is not harder then people think...people like u make it harder...just wait for the reaction of the next person that finishes it....i can only guess at what its going to be, i believe it will start with "that was easy"--and end with "omg this is f'n cool"

and for the last time ...the sway bar link fits in the hole!

Adam

[Stomp86]

ok fair enough...i rant....but its people like u that make shit so damn complicated.....
why not fit this set up and see...if u dont like it take it out....at least your doing something then and not gasbaging on forums...this shit is geting nowthere...in the end were driving 20 somethng year old cars not damn ferraris...and this set up isnt a damn morgage...if u wish to discuss this further why not start a topic in the tech questions section and leave this to "how to" questions....

all i can say....is....

its cheep, its easy, big brakes, better range of coilies, MORE LOCK!

i think the argument speaks for itself http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

and make love not war http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif lol

thanx
Adam

[Gilly]

This should end now, or as starter of this thread i will have it locked, we have 9 pages now, not all of which are useful.

everything with performance modifications is a compromise you don't get a decent result without some sort of adverse side affect. you don't install a 2 way LSD and expect it to be whisper quiet, you don't up your spring rates to 8 and 7 kg/mm and expect a comfy ride. you do these mods because you know the positives outweight the negatives or that you know you can put up with whatever that negative outcome may be! i grit my teeth and clench my arse when i see roadworks, speed bumps even manhole covers! but come smooth road time it's a joy.

in the case of this coilover conversion we know the positives, now i want the negatives. personally i find heavier steering (mostly due to track increase and steering arm geometry) obviously the redrilling (defectable in most states) and slight bump steer. i have had a wheel alignment done and i find the car to be very capable handling wise, i have minimal to zero drift or circuit racing history plus i am no tech head i don't know shit about ackerman, but i do appreciate good handling and right now i own the best handling car i've ever had, i have phenominal turn in and front end grip, very low levels of body roll, with the current rear end setup being adjustable coilovers as well, i have ended up with a very neutral setting, if anything very slightly leans to oversteer at the limit but you have to push it hard to get there, anyway thats more to do with the rear settings than front so yeah.


i see where Matt is coming from, i don't know what issues this conversion creates geometry wise but i do understand his thinkings and respect them.

this conversion is merely an upgrade over exsisting suspension, it is not the "be all and end all" ultimate 86 setup. if you want a cheaper coilover alternative (2nd hand) plus a track, lock and brake advantage then this is a definate consideration. bang for buck i can't see past it.

we know the positives of this conversion now so that doesn't need to be argued anymore. i would however like the negatives posted or pm'ed to me so i can add them in the original posting so people can make up there own minds as to which road they would like to travel.

this should really not be argued here and turned into a pissing contest. provide me with the facts let the people choose there path

[Dxaqta]

well said dave... i just tend to over think things and i have weighed up both angles so ill send u a pm

[Gilly]

cheers mate, you are not overthinking you are being thorough, which is not a bad thing

[pumpkinking]

im just happy when ever Gilly writes a reply or post as i get to see the breaking dancing Bear.. i cant stop giggling... HHEHEHEHE

[45aken]

you think there would be any other solution on the tie rods and rack ends so i can buy off the shelf pillow ball items?

im in the process of doing this now, and let me tell you all that any 8 inch or so neg offset wheel wont fit too well inside the arches!

[EVOSTi]

if you want to use nissan aftermarket tie rod ends, you can use S15 tie rods with MX83 rack ends. this is what i was going to use for my conversion but my car doesnt see the track so uber strong tie rods arent a priority.

[Sprinter-Saurus]

Here's how I did my S13 LCA. Mind you I did this conversion over 6 months ago, so all I had to go on was Nimon's original DIY thread, and did a bit of research and got a engineer and a guy from a steering rack business to put there 2c worth and ideas in, and I reckon it turned out pretty good. I didn't think about how the S13 hub is slight different though, so as some people said earlier in the thread, if you use LCA's that are the same length as stock AE86 LCA's, then you won't really have much camber. This is what seems to have happened on my car, although I don't have the weight of a motor and gearbox in the car yet, and I also haven't played much with the setting on the coilovers, but I'm considering getting another set of S13 LCA's and just running them as they are, eg maximum length, but yeah I'l wait and see what my settings are and what the camber looks like once the car is driving again in a few weeks. Here's some pictures:

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/114834.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/114835.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/114836.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/114836.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/114838.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/114839.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/114840.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/114841.jpg

Those bolts with the sleeves in the above pic are the little bastards that I had to get lathed up so the AE86 camber tops I had would bolt into the S13 coilovers. The bolts that came with the coilovers were only a smidgen off not fitting the camber tops.

Granted the geometry might be out a touch now with the S13 gear in there, but I don't reckon it's as bad as ImprovedAE86 or Dxaqta would have people believe. http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/laugh.gif

Oh yeah, as EVOSTi commented on above, I used S15 tie rods with MX83 rack ends.

Cheers, Daniel. http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

[pumpkinking]

H-bizzle autoshop is where its at Fo Sprinter-Saurus!

[EVOSTi]

bahaha... driving again in a few weeks, thats a good one!

[DRFT - 86]

What is the MX83 --------- ? not down with the particulars of other assorted vehciles...... Just so I know where to find these rack ends... how much were new ones also..?

cheers

[DRFT - 86]

S15 Tie end rods.. heavy duty (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/FORGED-H-D-TIE-RODS-INNER-OUTER-S15-SR20-SR20DET_W0QQitemZ250025860283QQihZ015QQcategoryZ43 808QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

would these be suitable to use ....... ?

[Sprinter-Saurus]

MX83 Cressida. They cost shit all to by new. http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

[DRFT - 86]

cool cheers champ...

[psi_72]

but do the mx83 rack ends go in easily or did they have to be re-tapped to fit, im assuming not? cheers

[Professor_cool]

yep

[DRFT - 86]

Is that sarcasm or a serious word of warning Professor for the peeps who wouldnt know?

[DRFT - 86]

Ok after speaking with 86sp...... he used s13 LCA's and ended up with ridiculous camber (sus his members rides thread) So he had to have them shortened 30mm.......... whats the go....?
Gilly you state that the S13 arms can be used and the camber is fine (judging from the pics of your car it looks that way) Im just puzzled why 86sp's car had such excesive camber........?

[hilux08]

did he have adjustable camber tops?

[DRFT - 86]

yeh....

[DRFT - 86]

Some pics of 86sp's setup........ (hope you dont mind champ)

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/6987/image000yo5.jpg

[86sp]

Ahh, I have to state that this was with standard guards and camber tops still set at my original -1.5deg. If I pumped the camber all the way out to positive the tyres would have hit guards in a major way. I still think that it would have had a shit load of camber even with the plates at positive.

[Gilly]

i was surprised at how much neg camber 86sp's front end gained using s13 arms. i actually used JZX81 arms but they are the same length from crush tube to balljoint as a s13 arm so all track and camber gains should measure the same.

DRFT-86 check with some of the other guy's on here that have used s13 arms and see what they came up with.

my pic on the front page is with cambertops set to max neg. at the moment my tops are set to a couple mm off centre (inboard) and i have -2.15* camber

[DRFT - 86]

Ahh, I have to state that this was with standard guards and camber tops still set at my original -1.5deg. If I pumped the camber all the way out to positive the tyres would have hit guards in a major way. I still think that it would have had a shit load of camber even with the plates at positive.[/b]

Ahh true, may be half the reason...... but as you still think the camber would be excessive after adjustment Im interested to hear from anyone else using S13 arms....

Maybe its worth finding some Jzx81 arms then, If I can......... but then again if I use the S13 arms and it ends up like 86sp's camber I will just get the shortened as he did.... not to worried about the legal issues..

[rallystanza]

Something is fucked up there in those pics mate.

Have a look in the link to the toymods thread in this thread. It has pics where me and Hen is a total butcase test fitted using all S13 gear. with a standard AE86 strut top....

[DRFT - 86]

yeh Ive sussed it out before......... might read over it again though..

[Gilly]

i am actually a little suss on the origin of those LCA's 86sp, they are getting shortened know so its no big deal. just re reading and i have some 7.5's +10mm offset and they were alright guard wise after rolling.

curious to know the length of the arms before shortening

[86sp]

60mm longer than standard 86 arms. Cut down 30mm. Another thing to note is that the camber adjustment via the strut to hub bolt holes was cambered a bit so it could be driven a small distance. This could be the reason for the stupid camber. I forgot to include this!
With the shortened arms, camber at the bolts at max pos. and top plates around 0, I ended up with around 0 camber.
As it sits im very happy with it all. Only issue is some bump steer..

[Gilly]

ahh slotted top bolt hole on the coilovers, yeah that would've done it.

[86sp]

Yeah sorry about that haaha, anyway, anyone found a solution to the bump steer?

[Gilly]

what rate are your front springs? i run 8kg/mm fronts and have some shocking roads around my area which in turn try to rip the wheel out of my hands all the time!!

loves a smooth road but......

[DRFT - 86]

interested to hear a way of getting rid of this bump steer that seems to be a bitch....

[Gilly]

it's just one of those thing dude. you change the angle of steering arms and shit you're going to get it.

just have to deal with it i'm afraid.

i run 8kg/mm fronts and 7kg/mm rears, no shit most uncomfortable car i've ever owned. cd player is rendered useless i just use the radio now.

hopefully come track time it'll be worh it, already worth it on Mt Nebo.....

[DRFT - 86]

Yeh fair enough...... your probably making it sound worse than it is though......... thats why Im 'slightly' concerned.... dont care to much, but still it would nice to find away around it.... hehe

[Gilly]

true, probably feels heaps worse because i'm getting thrown around the cabin and sliding around in a stocker seat http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Dxaqta]

gilly have you thought about the long term affects of using stiff suspension on the structure of your car as the chassis is absorbing alot of the energy that soft springs and shocks would normally do????

[Gilly]

yes, i have decided when it falls apart i will buy a ke70 and when that one falls apart i will buy yet another ke70 http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/tongue.gif

Ke70 = disposable drifter http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/2thumbs.gif

[DRFT - 86]

also, whats the cheapest/easiest to find master cylinder with the most ease of fitment to the standard lines......
as required when running SR calipers...

[Dxaqta]

yes, i have decided when it falls apart i will buy a ke70 and when that one falls apart i will buy yet another ke70 http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/tongue.gif

Ke70 = disposable drifter http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/2thumbs.gif[/b]

sounds like a good plan http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/2thumbs.gif

[Gilly]

also, whats the cheapest/easiest to find master cylinder with the most ease of fitment to the standard lines......
as required when running SR calipers...[/b]

no easy option there. s13,r32,33,and 34 fit as do some starion and patrol master cylinders, all require lines to be made, which is why i used CA18det brakes as i could use the stock 13/16ths master cylinder.

SR20DE and CA18DET are exactly the same using a 250mm rotor and same caliper. personally say don't use the SR20DET brakes, unless you are going turbo, or unless you have a disc rear end or some sort of upgrade on the rear. SR brakes on the front and ADM drums on the back is a pretty mismatched brake setup!!

[DRFT - 86]

Yeh I was planning on upgrading the rear accordingly....
although now Im thinking I might use the CA brakes after all.........
I dont believe CA brakes are 280mm as thats what I have and they are SR20det 180sx rotors........ 280mm x 22mm

The weird thing is the CA rotors on the same site are more than double the cost of the SR rotors... wtf?

[SR20_AE86]

also, whats the cheapest/easiest to find master cylinder with the most ease of fitment to the standard lines......
as required when running SR calipers...[/b]

save the hassle and run CA brakes, my theory is due to the weight of the car etc CA brakes will be more then enough.

[DRFT - 86]

Yeh Im going to use the CA set up... a little less fucking around been the main reason... Im sure they will be more than adequate also....
It annoys me that the smaller CA rotors cost more than the bigger SR rotors.......

[Gilly]

yep just googled it,

257mm = CA18DET, SR20DE
280mm = SR20DET

so i do have SR20DET brakes on my car. feel alright though obviously as i have stated in the past, that's using a 13/16ths master instead of 15/16ths. i tried hell hard to lock the rears when i got it all running and it wouldn't same as in the wet wouldn't lock up!!?!?!?!. i could fit 14's over them as well.

hmmm, i'll have to swap them anyway my engineer already knows about me running bigger brakes and will research the measurements to ensure i am running the right master cylinder, he is thorough........

and umm obviously my front end conversion hasn't been approved yet.

[DRFT - 86]

Thats funny man....... shit, so it even feels ok with the stock master....
noticed your thread on nissansilvia.. lol..

[DRFT - 86]

Got hubs and LCA's today....
Just wondering if your rims fitted on the S13 hubs as the center is bigger and wouldnt fit the MA61 rims or the stockies I had lying around......
or did the rims need some maching or Spacers ect..?

[Gilly]

my rims fit fine, never tried a stocker though as they wouldn't clear the brakes. i 'll have a closer look tomorrow when it's light and see what the go is.

[DRFT - 86]

yeh I think it may have just been that I didnt have the rotors on... just tried the hubs by themselves..

[DRFT - 86]

also another thing Im a little confused about.... the rotors I have' have 2 threaded holes along with the 4 that the studs go through... how is the disc secured as there are no holes in the hub for any bolts to go into...? wtf... or is it simply held in place by the caliper...? ( I think highly unlikely ) I dont have the backing plates either...

(oh yeh this is the SR20det rotors) which I have since decieded to use again....

[rallystanza]

Dont worry about those small 2 holes.

They do nothing that will be of concern to you.

[DRFT - 86]

so how are the rotors held in place...?

[Hen is a total nutcase]

Gaffer tape...


The wheel holds it on. And the centre hub ring keeps it located.

[DRFT - 86]

cool..... cheers man... I had the feeling that was the case but after seeing a few other hub/disc setups I was a little sceptical..

[DRFT - 86]

Also... regarding the use of the bigger S13 15/16ths master cylinder... do new lines have to made because the 86 lines are to small ...... or because they dont line up/connect to the bigger master.......?

all these questions to clear the confusion... lol

and whats the go with these -----> T3. S13 RCA's (http://www.technotoytuning.com/productdetail.php?p=467)

I thought you couldnt get RCA's for the S13 set up... http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/7/5/4/536981.jpg

[hilux08]

not sure how u would mount those on s13 coilovers but someone enlighten me if i am wrong

[DRFT - 86]

yeh Im confused also...

[Gilly]

i can only assume that is the wrong picture or wrong vehicle description. as there is no where on an s13 front end where they would fit.

i don't think you can run seperate rca's on s13's. never seen them.

check this link out, itt tells you about bump steer. and shows a tierod end used to bring steering arms back to horizontal. there would be nothing like this made for 86's as we have access to RCA's. worth a read anyway.

[DRFT - 86]

yeh I saw the picture and was like wtf... that couldnt be right... T3 know there shit though so maybe they have made something for the S13... just not pictured... but you would think it would be... hmmm...

what link is that Gilly...?

[Gilly]

http://www.ikeya-f.co.jp/en/product_notice/foot_works.html

my bad! http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Stomp86]

the disks are held on by the caliper...its called a floating disk set up....

you can get rca's for s13 set up....its not like ae86 though...its in the form of a longer ball joint....ie...the hub sits further away from lca because the ball joint spaces it upwards...not by much mind u...its only like 20 mm at most

Adam

[DRFT - 86]

where can these longer ball joints be had as the balljoints need replacing on my LCA's anyway so I may as well use these longer ones..

[Stomp86]

i only eva seen them in pictures...so i got no idea

[DRFT - 86]

damn..... I might post up on nissansilvia and see if anyone knows..

[DRFT - 86]

Are these the ball joints your speaking of....

S13 balljoints - Yahoo auctions (http://page15.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/t9354250)

[Stomp86]

nah mate...they just look like replacement ones...the ones i seen look like an hourglass shape sort of thing...with the top flat face being where the lca sits on

[DRFT - 86]

ok true.... yeh these are what someone on nissansilvia came up with as I posted a thread about this.....
interesting....................................... ..................

[Gilly]

bump steer is bearable after the conversion.

[DRFT - 86]

yeh I believe you... I just want it as optimal as possible and since I need new balljoints I may as well get the longer ones... but looks like it might be more hassle than its worth.....
If I can find them and they arnt 2 expensive then I'll get em....

[Gilly]

fair enough.

[crazy86]

Are these the ball joints your speaking of....

S13 balljoints - Yahoo auctions (http://page15.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/t9354250)[/b]

Those balljoints are RCA balljoints, these ones actually change the balljoint height by 15mm as stated in the spec sheet.

Rough translation

Roll center adjuster 15mm revision possibly!

It produces as the competition car private part

The damper feels softly!

The downgrade being packed of the damper is felt mainly!

The roll is large!

The reaction of the steering wheel is late 1 tempo!

Isn't the vehicle where this kind of condition is easy to appear increasing spring rate?

Pitching is easy to come out by the fact that the spring is made hard too much, in addition the actual roll quantity does not change excessively!

As for the lower arm action angle vis-a-vis the damper becomes important.

Function of the original damper revives by the fact that the 15mm lower arm is lowered.


When penetrating/you stand up and the time grip is different

[DRFT - 86]

had the feeling they were as Ive been directed to that link a few times by other nissan owners....
but at just under $300 Au I think I might ditch the idea...
how much are OEM ball joints usually....?


lol... I love jap translations...

[DRFT - 86]

Ok Im almost ready to begin this conversion... have 95% of the parts I need.....
now another thing I want to know is ---->
Can I just use the RA40 tie rods (as these are what were used in the guide that was written on crab 86's hachi) or do I really need the MX83 rack ends and S15 tie rods...?

whats the pros and cons of each method (if there is any)

and can some please tell me for certain that the MX83 rack ends and the S15 tie rods are 100% suitable and compatible.....
As I dont want to buy them and find out they dont fit/work.....
I was looking at purchasing some aftermarket S15 tie rods that have some spacers with them to help with bumpsteer... but just want to get as much clarity as possible before I go ahead and do this...

Appreciate all the help so far..

Cheers

Niz......

[Hen is a total nutcase]

Dude, just give it a try. There is already shitloads of info on this conversion out there now.

If things don't fit then you can usually swap them for something that does. Now stop provaricating and go work on your car.

Hen

[DRFT - 86]

its the difference of spending $300 or $80 that Im trying to figure out....
I want clarity not maybe's.........

[EVOSTi]

i dont know that adding spacers to your tie rods would help you with bump steer.

yes you can use mx83 inners with s15 outers, ive seen it myself on sprinter saurus' car but if you dont wanna go that way there are other options as mentioned about 13 pages ago.

[DRFT - 86]

thanks champ..... thats all I need to clarify...
Im not sure how the spacers work... but they are nice HD tie rods so I will prob go that way with my conversion...

[steroidchickens]

can you use ae86 strut tops with s13 coilovers, for the poor people that cannot afford camber tops yet?

[EVOSTi]

you can, but its best you dont run a high spring rate, as this may punch through the rubber of your factory strut top.

[steroidchickens]

you can, but its best you dont run a high spring rate, as this may punch through the rubber of your factory strut top.[/b]
i am running that risk at the moment with ae86 struts. is that what you mean?
so they still fit with the s13 shocks?

[rallystanza]

I is been running my factory slut tops for about 3 years now with tokiko HTS and 8KG spring rate and have shown the car no mercy whatsoever every time i drive it everyday.

Loves it, the rubbers show no sign of damage.

[steroidchickens]

I is been running my factory slut tops for about 3 years now with tokiko HTS and 8KG spring rate and have shown the car no mercy whatsoever every time i drive it everyday.

Loves it, the rubbers show no sign of damage.[/b]


top stuff. getting my car ready to engineer. need the brake upgrade, and want more steering lock. but dont have much coin at the moment. thanks
might just run s13 coilovers and just leave the stock strut tops for a while

[EVOSTi]

glad to here you guys arent having troubles. thats why i made sure i said 'may' go through the rubber as i have never personally seen this, only heard rumours.

question for those who have used bluebird tie rods: i ordered some tie rods today from my parts supplier, just asked for 83 TRX tie rods. got them, they fit the rack ends fine but they arent a good fit for the s13 stub axle. which model bluebird tie rods are people using? maybe the later FWD ones? if its any help, the ones i have are marked left and right, they have a kink on both sides.

[Stomp86]

nah nah...use bluebird rack ends....ra40 ra60 ma60 tie rod ends...

im not sure what bluebird...i just asked for early bluebird ones...

Adam

[Gilly]

^^ thanks stomp. i'll update the front page now we have a definate answer, my fault guys i was told they were bluebird tierod ends

[EVOSTi]

stomp, are you sure? a few people have said that the celica tie rods dont fit real well into the s13 spindles. i already have the celica rack ends and they fit the sprinter rack well and are longer.

[bahnugget]

just did this conversion in my car.. woooooot! is all i have to say this rocks. i used RA60 rack ends and Bluebird TRX tierods.. if you dont know what model, mentioning series 3 may help.

celica tie rod ends have a different taper to the s13 steering knuckle, they'd do the job but make a bit of racket.

thanks Gilly you're a champ for writing this up.

[bahnugget]

nah nah...use bluebird rack ends....ra40 ra60 ma60 tie rod ends...

im not sure what bluebird...i just asked for early bluebird ones...

Adam[/b]

i'm guessing u meant ra40/ra60/ma60 RACK ends.. and bluebird TIEROD ends??

[EVOSTi]

thats what i thought. so you can confirm you use TRX tie rods? series 3? cheers dude

[Gilly]

my tierod ends look exactly like RA40 ones, but may have had the bluebird joints pressed in maybe!?!?

anyone clarify this, or give a definate answer as to what tie rods they used?

[Stomp86]

yeah maybe i cant remember any more...here it is...like a hundred pages back

"i just did the conversion...still have to get wheel alighnment and stuff...

early bluebird tie rod ends

ra60 rack ends

s13 lca

s13 disk with s14 caliper

s13 coilie

ae86 camber plate

the s13 lca kind of fits...u need to grind about 2 mm off each end off the crush tube in the bush....no drama there...and then if its not enough just tap out the xmember a little...it slotted straight in..."

[bahnugget]

thats what i thought. so you can confirm you use TRX tie rods? series 3? cheers dude[/b]

yup, i got em new from repco 40 bucks each.. just asked for TRX bluebird tie rod ends.. there was only one trx bluebird, the other trx is a piniata and u dont want those ones

[EVOSTi]

i also asked for TRX bluebird tie rods, they asked me what year so i just had a stab and said early 80's. ill prob just bring my spindles in and get them to bring out all the bluebird ones they have in stock, should be a max of four.

[86sp]

I used series 2. I'm pretty sure the guy looked them up and some of the series were the same.

[Hen is a total nutcase]

Mr Repco told me that series 1, 2 and 3 bluebirds shared a part no. The only difference was import vs local models.

I took local, but haven't checked if they fit yet.

Hen

[EVOSTi]

well then i dont know how they fucked up mine. some parts interpreters are retards. unless you can give them full details is just blows their mind. half of them have no idea about cars or parts, only know how to look up numbers in books.

[steroidchickens]

i rang around today. asked repco, i asked for bluebird tie rod ends and as soon as i said celica rack ends the person on the phone started abusing me saying that they wont work together!

[Gilly]

i rang around today. asked repco, i asked for bluebird tie rod ends and as soon as i said celica rack ends the person on the phone started abusing me saying that they wont work together![/b]

they do.

i just tell them that thats what i have already so i know it works, followed by a "what do you care just sell me the parts cockfag"









may or may not say the last part......

[Stomp86]

well after they sell them to u....open both boxes and screw them together.... and add some smartarsed comment http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif people in those stores dont know sweet bugger all...all they have is their parts manual.. and they have enough trouble dealin with that

[steroidchickens]

baught them today. place called bersons. he was a legend. had them in stock too diddnt ask any questions, they are bluebirds 910 series 1,2 or 3. he was very interested in what i was putting them in too!

[Gilly]

Thanks Brad!!

first post updated and correct i feel, anyone who has done the conversion have a read and let me know if i've missed anything. i think the tierod ends were the only detail that neede to be confirmed.

[hahaboy]

u can use ke70 rack end wif RA40 tie rod ends, this work !

[steroidchickens]

u can use ke70 rack end wif RA40 tie rod ends, this work ![/b]
are you sure?
you would have to get nissan balljoints pressed into the ra40 tierod ends wouldnt you?
and arnt ke70 rack ends the same as ae86, so they would not be any longer?

[EVOSTi]

they physically fit but the taper is not the same so the fit is poor.


anyway so onto my story, i brought my s13 spindle day down to the parts supplier and go him to grab me an early bluebird tie rod. this tie rod is a poor fit. only half the taper is inside the spindle, and only half the thread sticks out the top.
this bluebird tie rod is listed as to be used with almost all bluebirds.
we even tried one from an OLD bluebird, but this was WAY too small.
the only bluebird tie rod we didnt try was from an early 90's one, u13 i think cause they didnt have it in stock.

WTF is the go? are my spindles not correct?! or are people getting different tie rod ends?!

[steroidchickens]

they physically fit but the taper is not the same so the fit is poor.


anyway so onto my story, i brought my s13 spindle day down to the parts supplier and go him to grab me an early bluebird tie rod. this tie rod is a poor fit. only half the taper is inside the spindle, and only half the thread sticks out the top.
this bluebird tie rod is listed as to be used with almost all bluebirds.
we even tried one from an OLD bluebird, but this was WAY too small.
the only bluebird tie rod we didnt try was from an early 90's one, u13 i think cause they didnt have it in stock.

WTF is the go? are my spindles not correct?! or are people getting different tie rod ends?![/b]


u13 bluebird is FWD isnt it?... i am 99% sure it is. they will be different.
i will have a look at the ones i got the other day. i havent bolted my hubs up to them yet.

[Orange hachi]

i went and ask at auto one n they tell me the blue bird tied rod ends have a left n right hand thread
and the ra60 rackends doesn't have left and right thread so u can't posible fit these
its got a funny curve on the tie rod ends. surely thats not the one right?
i will probably have to take my spindle to the shop n try on every tie rod end there is

[steroidchickens]

i went and ask at auto one n they tell me the blue bird tied rod ends have a left n right hand thread
and the ra60 rackends doesn't have left and right thread so u can't posible fit these
its got a funny curve on the tie rod ends. surely thats not the one right?
i will probably have to take my spindle to the shop n try on every tie rod end there is[/b]

the bluebird tie rod ends have left and right, but the thread is the same. its just the way they curve

[Orange hachi]

the bluebird tie rod ends have left and right, but the thread is the same. its just the way they curve
[/quote]

its not the one we need though is it?
is that the one u got mate?

[steroidchickens]

there is only one set of bluebird tierod ends, the other set is for U13. or way to early. yeah those ones you need.

[Orange hachi]

there is only one set of bluebird tierod ends, the other set is for U13. or way to early. yeah those ones you need.[/b]
oh ok kewl then. i will take my spindle there to try it just incase
the only thing is they only got one of each n will need to order them in

[EVOSTi]

these are the ones i tried. they are left and right, they just have a curve in them.
but these tie rods DID NOT fit my spindles properly. either everyone here is crazy, or maybe i have the wrong spindles? i didnt take them off the car i got them from SSS in girraween.
maybe ill take mine to sprinter saurus' house and see what the go is.

[Orange hachi]

[quote]
these are the ones i tried. they are left and right, they just have a curve in them.
but these tie rods DID NOT fit my spindles properly. either everyone here is crazy, or maybe i have the wrong spindles? i didnt take them off the car i got them from SSS in girraween.
maybe ill take mine to sprinter saurus' house and see what the go is.
[/quote

Does your spindle looks like this mate?
[attachment=9204:attachment]
[attachment=9203:attachment]
[attachment=9202:attachment]
[attachment=9201:attachment]

[EVOSTi]

thats what mine look like minus the abs.

ive trial fitted a magna balljoint which fits up as people have mentioned, ive trial fitted s13 sr20 brakes and s15 brakes and both fit.

with the tie rods, i took my spindle to two different places (auto pro and auto one) and both had the same tie rods, but both used the same catalogue and brand (road safe?) and the fit was poor. i dont spose anyone has a pic of their tie rod, perhaps one of it sitting in the spindle without the castle nut on it?

also orange hachi, what calipers are those in your photos? ive heard rumours that sr20det calipers are twin piston, but alot of people say they are just the single piston but are bigger than ca18.

[DRFT - 86]

The Sr20det calipers Ive got are single piston.... I think S14 onwards are twin piston, but dont quote me on that...

[Orange hachi]

The Sr20det calipers Ive got are single piston.... I think S14 onwards are twin piston, but dont quote me on that...[/b]
oh ok
not too sure aye
i bought these off a friend and he let me choose single or twin
obviusly any1 would go for twin if given a choice

[Orange hachi]

thats what mine look like minus the abs.

ive trial fitted a magna balljoint which fits up as people have mentioned, ive trial fitted s13 sr20 brakes and s15 brakes and both fit.

with the tie rods, i took my spindle to two different places (auto pro and auto one) and both had the same tie rods, but both used the same catalogue and brand (road safe?) and the fit was poor. i dont spose anyone has a pic of their tie rod, perhaps one of it sitting in the spindle without the castle nut on it?

also orange hachi, what calipers are those in your photos? ive heard rumours that sr20det calipers are twin piston, but alot of people say they are just the single piston but are bigger than ca18.[/b]

hmmz what are u doin with the magna balljoints?
yeah a pic of pplz tie rods would b really nice
that should solve our problems

i dun think the brand would make too much different
as they should be like original

i was under the impression of them being s13 sr
but as drft86 said. it might be silvia s14
my friend also said the same thing. only s14 on wards have twin piston
btw what wheel size does s14 come with?
im a bit worried about it not fittin my 15 inch wheels now

[Stomp86]

well...the tie rods do fit a little rough....but put a rattle gun on the nut and it pulls them in....all you need to do is be able to put the split pin through...thats enough...it doesent need to pull it all the way down...

[Hen is a total nutcase]

Ok, to clear a bit of stuff up.

I have TRX bluebird tie rods (slight bend in them, part # 560L or R depending on side). I just test fitted them to my S13 hubs by hand the other day and the fit wasn't perfect but was pretty good. Even holding them in by hand stopped any movements between the tapers. Then when I gave it a slight tighten up with a shifter I needed to tap the thread to get it out.

S13 = single piston, 15" rims
S14 = 4 piston, 16" rims
S15 = 4 piston, rims of some description

S14 uses a 280mm disc. So S14 caliper and disc SHOULD fit under a 15" rim, but it will depend on the exact rim, especially the X factor it has. (Space behind spokes outboard of the mounting face)

Orange, if you have twin pistons, I think they might have come off a late model Bluebird, possibly SSS, or something similar.

[Orange hachi]

Ok, to clear a bit of stuff up.

I have TRX bluebird tie rods (slight bend in them, part # 560L or R depending on side). I just test fitted them to my S13 hubs by hand the other day and the fit wasn't perfect but was pretty good. Even holding them in by hand stopped any movements between the tapers. Then when I gave it a slight tighten up with a shifter I needed to tap the thread to get it out.

S13 = single piston, 15" rims
S14 = 4 piston, 16" rims
S15 = 4 piston, rims of some description

S14 uses a 280mm disc. So S14 caliper and disc SHOULD fit under a 15" rim, but it will depend on the exact rim, especially the X factor it has. (Space behind spokes outboard of the mounting face)

Orange, if you have twin pistons, I think they might have come off a late model Bluebird, possibly SSS, or something similar.[/b]

hmmz awsome thanks dude. that really cleared it up for me.
i will just go in and tell them the part number and it should be all good.

hmmz if it doesn't fit i will take it back and smash him on the head.
lol. he has single pistons ones also. i might go n swap this one over. what do u reckon?
oh should i keep the twin pistons?
i have got xr4 longchamp (new model) with a something like +20 offset on the front.
the offset should be fine i think as thats the kinda offset nissan use
i also have nissan cefiro stocks mags to put on if the xr4 doesn't fit
cheers every1 for the help

[Hen is a total nutcase]

Sorry, those part #s were off the top of my head. I'm reasonably sure, but don't take it as gospel. SI, II and III TRX had the same part #. I got the local version, imports had a different one.

Hen

[EVOSTi]

ok so all along i must have had the correct tie rods, they just dont seem like a real good fit and if i have to force them ill prob just get the S15 tie rods.

S14 and S15 brakes are the s ame, both four spot calipers with 280mm disc. they fit inside 15in rims but require alot of clearance to fit the caliper.
to put my mesh rims over the caliper would require atleast a 20mm spacer and i easily fit hilux four spots, its because the nissan calipers are further outboard due to the floating disc setup.

re magna balljoints, im using them cause they fit in sprinter arms and are a perfect taper for the s13 spindles.

[Orange hachi]

these are the my twin pot brakes
they look pretty nice in red and they dun have a nissan writting on them

[attachment=9421:attachment]
[attachment=9422:attachment]
[attachment=9423:attachment]

[steroidchickens]

just to add more info to this tech article.
you need to drill out your crossmember with a 14mm drill bit.
you can get brand new complete s13 lower control arms from repco for around $80 each!! so dont buy them off nisswreck for $180 each like i ALMOST did. this is with new ball joints and new bushes!!

[DRFT - 86]

fuk I cant get over how aewsome that is... Im gona be hitting repco up tomorow I think.... did they come with the crossmember bolts by any chance also......? (I doubt this though)

[steroidchickens]

no crossmember bolt. just take the control arm once you get it into a bolt place and they will get you the bolts.
i will put the part numbers up tomorrow so they dont give you the runaround like they gave me.
you would think working in the "parts" section they would have a little clue about parts!!

[Orange hachi]

fuk I cant get over how aewsome that is... Im gona be hitting repco up tomorow I think.... did they come with the crossmember bolts by any chance also......? (I doubt this though)[/b]

or u can just use any r31 skyline ones.
thats what im planing to do on the weekend
off to pick n pay this weekend

[Gilly]

just to add more info to this tech article.
you need to drill out your crossmember with a 14mm drill bit.[/b]

pfft already says that in the first post, Brad geez.... http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

EDIT: actually it says 13mm.

[steroidchickens]

i should of read the 15 pages to double check that my info was not covered already........ stuff that.
the bolt shop told me 14mm. i used a 1/2 inch drill bit than made it bigger with a die grinder.
bunnings wanted $45 for a 14mm drill bit.... haha

[Orange hachi]

s13 coilovers rock!
sickest upgrades ever.
can't wait to get mine in there
we should have a poll and see how many pplz have s13 coilovers
lol.
i only knew of it from this thread..
i wonder if there would be more than 10 pplz using it

[EVOSTi]

waaaaaay more than 10 dude, its been going on for years, alot longer than this thread http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

[Orange hachi]

waaaaaay more than 10 dude, its been going on for years, alot longer than this thread http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif[/b]
oh i see...
still special

[steroidchickens]

got my wheel alignment today
-2.5 degrees camber. car feels great. havent really driven it (leagily) haha.
so much more steering lock!!!!!!

[DRFT - 86]

got my wheel alignment today
-2.5 degrees camber. car feels great. havent really driven it (leagily) haha.
so much more steering lock!!!!!![/b]

nice... is that without modding the LCA's and with the cambertops at max + settings......? or is their room for more/less adjustment..?

[steroidchickens]

thats cambertops almost in the middle. with standard s13 LCAs
my coilovers dont have the notch for camber adjustment in one of the bolt holes that bolts to the hub..... if that makes any sense

[Orange hachi]

show us some pics man

[steroidchickens]

been lazy will take some pics soon but. good amount of camber, but wheels stick out guards abit!

[TurboRA28]

Where do people recommend to get the S13 parts required, like the hubs/brakes etc?

[DRFT - 86]

Where do people recommend to get the S13 parts required, like the hubs/brakes etc?[/b]

Me ...... Ive got everything you need... check the for sale threads.... http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

[Brenton 86]

Where do people recommend to get the S13 parts required, like the hubs/brakes etc?[/b]

Im sure most peeps are just raiding the local wrecker, usually heaps of s13 gear due to rich kids and s13 first cars. http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[steroidchickens]

go on www.nissansilvia.com.au.
or i posted a wanted thread on www.silviansw.com.
buy LCAs new!!!

[steroidchickens]

i just have the sigma arms atm -4 degrees its wiked lol but have all needed s13 gear on the way yeeee oooo[/b]

-4! far out that is huge!
whats it handle like?
i got -2.5 on mine.
havnt tested it out yet but.
haha.

was looking forward to wakefield but cannot make it now as i am to busy with work!

[gottago]

so from what ive read up, this is what i came up with

early bluebird tie rod ends ( series 1,2 or 3)

ra60 rack ends

s13 lca

s13 disk with s14 caliper

s13 coilie

ae86 camber plate

you need to drill out your crossmember with a 14mm drill bit.

u need to grind about 2 mm off each end off the crush tube in the bush

do the ae86 camber plates bolt up to the s13 coil overs?any mods needed? wats involved?

with this strut combo will u have to pump out the guards coz of tyre clearance? anyone got wheel sizes and pics with this front end combo?

[Gilly]

almost got it all right.

you can use S13 discs and calipers no need to use S14

86 tops work on S13 coilovers

guard flarage depends on what width and offset rim you run.

i had to flare my guards to fit a 15 x 7.5 inch 0 offset rim. that was at 2.1 degrees negative camber which is not excessive.

this topic will be going under a full edit soon.

too many pages full of useless info

EDITED: GOT RID OF 3 PAGES OF CRAP

[starni_boy]

i it relli neccessary to run s14 calipers? lyk would they b better than s13 calipers, lyk i kno that they r newer but is it the same technology?

cheers guys