W5X series Gear boxs in an ae86. Costly? [Archive]

The Enthusiast

23rd March 2009, 05:00 PM

Hey guys,
Im just doing a bit of research to either make me look like an idiot or my dad a fool.
Hes a control freak and recently i blew the gear box in my coupe.
Now over the past few months ive been following gear box conversions

Ive told the old man 1 of a few things.

Replacing the t50 is no problem but you wont get a warrenty.

He has managed to find a reco t50 for. wait. 1200 dollars undelivered. (20,000 ks or one year )

I might as well buy 2 or nearly 3 old boxes and sit one in the car and the others for when it blows up thats warranty enough i cant justify 1200 for a 23 year old gear box.

He has a preconceived idea that trying to put a W5x Series box into my car would cost the box of around 1200 plus labour of about 1500.

and that the mods to install one are hard and painful.

Could some one please tell me their experiences and how hard it is to find parts for this conversion and make up brackets?
and overall cost ball park.
pros and cons?

I dont think neither of us are going to beable to settle this between us
so i need someone to give it to me straight so i can form an opinion and show my father. who is about as head strong as me.

Thanks and regards

Jack Ritchie

slydar

23rd March 2009, 05:34 PM

w boxes are priced between $350 and $650 dollars. this is fact. i can have one landed on your door for less than $500 easily.

for the conversion you will need

bell - CRS, dellow, nite parts, ect ect. or the adapter kit for azcustoms. $600 max.

a new spigot bearing? $10

your clutch modified to accept the input shaft. $100 max.

a modified tail shaft, or possibly just the front section from a celica. $300 or less.

a custom gearbox x member. this is the trickiest part and it is not even hard.

the part is not heavily stress or a complex shape.

it is basically 2 pieces of flat bar with 2 holes each for the chassis tabs.

one piece of say 40x40 or 40x20 rhs. with 2 hole saw holes and 2 20mm holes in it for the bolts to pass through/sit inside the section.

any fabrication joint can do this for you. even an exhaust shop. you could have everything else done and have you car towed to a workshop, have this part made, be charged between $150 and $300, and drive home.

this is all kinda "worse case scenario" pricing.

The Enthusiast

23rd March 2009, 05:51 PM

i like the sound of this.
How about trying to get the gear lever central or as close to,
is there a w series box that fits better ?

biggo

23rd March 2009, 05:55 PM

If you know your way around cars and what your doing like me, i got mine done for $600 + an RSM. that got me whole new clutch setup too.

reecegze

23rd March 2009, 06:06 PM

Its cheaper overall.. Smash it hard as you want with a 4age.. A boosted 4agte would give it a workout. Get the box ra65 w58 "best position", get nite parts/ajps bellhousing with slave on left side looking at car front on. Good clutch with w58 spline then tailshaft + yoke to suit rear of diff. Only problem with w5# is they dont like to much torque in first gear

slydar

23rd March 2009, 06:15 PM

either of the 2 rear most are fine. CRS do exchange if you can get the right one. you send in your "wrong" one they send you back the one you want apprently. thinks its $100 for the "service".

ive measured sa63 w55 and ae86 t50 both the bells on and the gear lever position very close to the same.

MJ86

23rd March 2009, 06:33 PM

What about a steel case celica box, i have one in my hachi, fits in with an adapter plate, pretty sure the clutch is the 4agze item , the gearstick is in the right place, not sure about the tailshaft but it bolts up to my g-series and uses the original gearbox mount. I think AJPS can help with the adapter plate as well, it is plenty strong enough and you may even score one for a hundy or two, my car runs 4agte+haltech+ 600x300 cooler and 4.3 diff gears.
regards Mick.

P.S: No mods to floorpan and the slave is on passenger side.

Hen may possibly be a nut

23rd March 2009, 06:55 PM

From the top of my head, when I did it, it cost:
Box (from GZ20, shifter is RIGHT at the back of the stock hole, I in fact trimmed it 10mm for clearance) - $250
Bellhousing - $400
Clutch (new 4puck) - $300
Tailshaft (new one piece) - $300
Clutch line (bent it up myself and got a brake place to put fittings on it) - $20
Clutch slave (new) - $25
Crossmember - DIY
Clutch fork - Had lying around

So about $1300 and I didn't pay any labour. You can save money in some places (like clutch if you just respline your current one, or tailshaft if you can use an RA40 front half) but it gives you some idea.

I reckon if you were going to pay for labour it could get quite pricey quite fast.

Jonny Rochester

23rd March 2009, 07:02 PM

A friend has a W5* in his AE86 with a custom kit using the standard T50/4AC bellhousing. His kit uses an addapter plate between the gearbox and the bellhousing. I am currently working with him to get this made properly into a kit we can sell. Not available yet, but soon.

The Enthusiast

23rd March 2009, 07:10 PM

i think your onto something with an adapter because the t50 form what im getting from places is getting kind of hard to find in reasonable condition

few more questions when the old man gets home

*urban_ninja*

23rd March 2009, 07:14 PM

i have not hurd of that option sounds like a good cheep one though.

MJ86

23rd March 2009, 07:18 PM

Where do you live bloke, i live on the gold coast so if your close, you can have a squiz at my setup, or i might be able to take some pics for you but the box is in at the moment and i`m not real fussy on pulling it out at the moment, but then again who knows.

MJ86

23rd March 2009, 07:19 PM

i have not hurd of that option sounds like a good cheep one though.

Works for me mate.

Is that better ?.

biggo

23rd March 2009, 07:27 PM

bro...

PuGZoR

24th March 2009, 09:38 AM

My costing:
Box: $500 (W58, apparently reco'd recently)
Bellhousing: $550 delivered (Niteparts, part of a group buy)
Clutch: $350 (4 puck cushioned button)
Tailshaft: $450 (Brand new one piece)
Clutch line: $50 (Like Hen I just had a brake place put fittings on the end for me, and bent it into shape.
Clutch slave: $20 (Brand new, to suit a T-18)
Crossmember: My dad helped me make one up out of 12mm thick plate, lol, that bastard isn't going anywhere. Had the plate sitting around.
Clutch fork / clips: $20
Spigot Bearing: $12 (was on the shelf at Repco)

I know I didn't get cheap cheap prices, because I look like a n00b (prolly cause I am one) and obviously people took me for a ride a bit.

*urban_ninja*

24th March 2009, 11:32 AM

sorry was refering to the celica box sorry when i posted i was half asleep

Hen may possibly be a nut

24th March 2009, 08:17 PM

Price always depends on how much of a hurry you're in, how much junk you have lying around, how many friends you have with similar junk lying around and how much of your free time (or work time if possible) you spend talking shit with the local parts/clutch/wrecker guys.

Hen

Beau

24th March 2009, 08:59 PM

ive got a W55 the shifter still fits fine BUT shifting to 1st and 3rd can sometimes bringing your knuckles real close to the center console (punched it a few times) But this can and mine will be fixed by having the shifter remade with a dog leg in it, with in my opion is a good idea if you are a big guy and sit further back its only a good thing.

My box conversion cost me about $1000.00 but as Hen said depends on who your mates are.

PuGZoR

25th March 2009, 09:19 AM

My prices are if you have no friends, lol.

flamingheads

25th March 2009, 06:55 PM

recently i blew the gear box in my coupe.
What kind of engine do you have? Is it a stock 4AGE that just had a shit box behind it and could be replaced with a $200 T50 or some hardcore 4AGTE that needs a hard core box?

Beau

25th March 2009, 07:34 PM

engine doesnt always matter. I had a mild smallport in the trueno for a year of owning it i went through 4 good boxes

reecegze

25th March 2009, 07:43 PM

4 boxes = $1000 w5# = $1000 just upgrade it so you can thrash it harder.. IMO everytime i slapped the t50 box i was worried.. Now i am worried as i need more power to utilize the w58 box :P

*urban_ninja*

27th March 2009, 09:11 AM

my opinioun is this........... No matter what car brand or anything if you kill the standard part say more than 2ce then up grade cause often just replaceing with the same part can often end up costing more than the upgrade itself in the long run. spend the money now and get a strong box aka w5x you will never worry agen.

PuGZoR

27th March 2009, 11:26 AM

Beau

27th March 2009, 12:38 PM

Yes.. it came out of the Mars Module Lander

biggo

28th March 2009, 06:25 AM

hahaha

i must buy one! Nah the traction control thing requires ABS for it to work so i wouldnt be worried. Ill have to post a few pics of my setup.

Slimer86

21st April 2009, 07:17 PM

What thrust bearing do you use with this setup?
Celica? RA63

Nic19

17th January 2010, 01:47 PM

bringing up an old thread but what do you do with the speedo cable?? does the standard t50 one fit into the w5x boxes??

biggo

17th January 2010, 10:11 PM

yes it goes straight in

s14seriesII

17th January 2010, 10:40 PM

Just wanted to ask... my W58 has some kind of traction control module on it... Don't know what it takes readings of, but it definitely exists, lol. Does this point to this box being out of something in particular?

electronic speed sensor, most like out of ga70 or n/a series 1 jaz80 supra others all use a cable speedo drive im pretty sure, jza80 boxes have a remote shifter housing thats mounted with big alloy brackets ( same brackets and housing as a V160 and jzx100 R154

reecegze

17th January 2010, 11:20 PM

Your speedo will go 25 kms/@@ out btw

Nic19

18th January 2010, 06:20 AM

Can this be re calibrated somehow?

s14seriesII

18th January 2010, 07:23 AM

you can get/buy new speedo drive gears with different number of teeth..

Nic19

18th January 2010, 08:36 AM

Can anyone confirm if an auto ae71 gearbox x member works on the w5x gearbox.

DR86FT

12th June 2010, 05:15 PM

you can get/buy new speedo drive gears with different number of teeth..

mine was missing when i bought the box the speedo bit

and also the reverse switch

R&D Mechanical

12th June 2010, 05:25 PM

So what spigot bearing do you use? this thread is good!

Just a w5* one? and that fits in the crank?

Do you use the standed clutch fork and thrust bearing?

1988whitey

12th June 2010, 10:04 PM

yeah when i did mine i did no work myself and got a guy to do the whole lot appart from get the box my conversion cost me on the unhappy side of $2500... but it now gets treated with no respect and the w 5x loves it like a fat kid loves cake. but prepare to have you speedo out by the 25-30kms out like has already been said, which is fun when people jump in and start roll caging when your speedo says 90km in the local streets lol you can get this fixed and i have been quoted like $500 to get it recalibrated but i had a feeling the guy just didnt want to do it

as for your $1200 reco i have bought a w56 and a w58 and didnt pay more then $400 for either and they are fine i just looked for guys parting their ra40 celica/supra and then got boxes off them works out cheaper then talking to a wreaker who knows what they can charge for things. you can depending on where you are from get most to all of the parts needed for the conversion from dellow automotive (nsw) thats where i got mine from because it was easy and because i wasnt installing it myself, if you do it yourself i would recomend getting what you realy need from dellows like your thrust bearing and carier and folk but get ajps bellhousing heard alot better reports from his casting,

then other then the ovious your peace of mind is so much better having it done rather then worryring if your t50 is going to fall apart at any stage.

Sam-Q

13th June 2010, 10:20 AM

I would like to confirm that I have had my SA63 sourced W55 next to a T50 and the shifter apeared to be in an identical position. Also don't go near the dellows adapter kit.

--Redwork--

19th June 2010, 10:31 PM

R&D Mechanical

20th June 2010, 12:40 AM

The input shaft will not reach the spigot bearing so you need to make up a sleeve to extend it, anyone have pics of it?

--Redwork--

20th June 2010, 06:21 AM

Did some more searching and found the answers to my questions....
So who can get me a niteparts Bell.?? Cheap.

Sam-Q

20th June 2010, 04:58 PM

contact them directly?

--Redwork--

20th June 2010, 05:55 PM

I would If i could find any information about them...

shift_rook

20th June 2010, 06:00 PM

http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=7542 a guy puts up a contact number on that

1988whitey

20th June 2010, 06:05 PM

when i tryed to get mine from niteparts they quoted me $700 bucks plus postage so i dont know what your budget is but i thought it was a bit rich. have you spoken to ajps i think he sells one not niteparts ones but they are a fair bit cheaper than niteparts and i think his quality is just as good. There is a shop up qld way that was selling a malaysia made bell to hes was cheap to not sure the name of the shop but it was definently up queensland way maybe try google searching for w50 to 4a bells see what happens.

--Redwork--

20th June 2010, 06:33 PM

Yeah did lots of searching already... Rolin imports sells the malaysian ones for $700.. AJPS one is almost $700 buy the time it's here.. I could get a t50 to W58 adaptor plate made by a mates old man but then I need to find a spare t50 to use for measurements while my car is still do Daily duties.. Think Craig at just JDM inports can get the malaysian one too for a bit under $600..

Just after and EASY solution.. don't have the time to stuff about.. Need some thing I can just bolt together and install...

70XIN

20th June 2010, 06:36 PM

Anyone shed some more light on the T50 bellhousing to W5x box using the adaptor plate..
Wouldn't that move the whole box further back creating spigot bearing and clutch issues.. Or is the Standard 4a bell housing slightly shorter or close enough in length to not cause ant drama's..

I put the spigot bearing in the flywheel as opposed to the crank (makes up for the extra 1.5cm).

And the throwout bearing has a spacer (comes with the adaptor plate).

IMO this is the easiest W5X conversion 'bellhousing' kit.

1988whitey

20th June 2010, 10:41 PM

not really a quick fix but i spoke to these guys when i did mine and they sounded pretty good i know they are uk but you only pay for postage from malaysia is what he told me, i dont know how much help but its another option if you are stilll researching

http://www.clkmotorsport.com/toyotaperf.htm

Sam-Q

20th June 2010, 10:55 PM

I know of someone who can weld together half a W bellhousing to half a T bellhousing. Want me to find out if he will do more for other people?

--Redwork--

21st June 2010, 06:35 AM

I could weld them together myself If I wanted to go about it that way....

But its all about time... I need to be able to pull stuff out, bolt it together and put it straight back in... No cut this ,weld that.. machine this bit here and so on.. I just dont have the time.

--Redwork--

21st June 2010, 06:37 AM

http://www.clkmotorsport.com/toyotaperf.htm I'm assuming that price is GBP.. if so works out to be $500...

DR86FT

23rd June 2010, 01:37 AM

I would like to confirm that I have had my SA63 sourced W55 next to a T50 and the shifter apeared to be in an identical position. Also don't go near the dellows adapter kit.

i got my dellow bellhousing already and the yoke hangs over the back ? does yours?

Sam-Q

23rd June 2010, 10:34 AM

I am feeling generous, I will put my W55 out later today and take a picture of it next to my spare T50

DR86FT

26th June 2010, 04:39 PM

I am feeling generous, I will put my W55 out later today and take a picture of it next to my spare T50

thank you

Sam-Q

26th June 2010, 04:46 PM

I took the pic 2 days ago, I need to get my camera out later and upload a pic, just a preview- I was wrong, looks like I got to correct myself.

Sam-Q

27th June 2010, 07:26 PM

NIZLAH

27th June 2010, 07:46 PM

I did have pics of my W55 with niteparts b/housing next to a T50 with b/housing but they were lost when my hard drive fried itself... anyhow it was much more even from memory than what you posted Sam... they were practically identical length/shifter position etc give/take a cm or 2.. Interesting

Sam-Q

27th June 2010, 07:52 PM

was it the straight up shifter design or like what I have here? do you remember?

NIZLAH

27th June 2010, 08:06 PM

shifter looks to be the same as what you posted.... sits in pretty much the same position as my T50 shifter did inside the car.... I could be wrong but yours looks like its a couple of cms longer (the g/box {in length}) its a little hard to tell with the shifter boots covering the ends

DR86FT

25th August 2010, 12:09 AM

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/1/1/2/51761.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/5/2/47547.jpg

I lined them up so the edge of the shaft ends where even. As it can be seen the W55 shifter is one position further back, and a shifter that was straight up instead would be more ideal.

I also dread cleaning that T50 for obvious reasons

can u measure the bellhousing? would that matter just wanna see if my dellow one is the right size.
also do u have spares for w55 mine was missing alot of stuff. I need a reverse switch, speedo gear, shifter and i wanna move the shifter to the same position as the t50.

thanks

Sam-Q

25th August 2010, 12:13 AM

the bellhousing length off the T50?

no I only have that complete box

assassin10000

25th August 2010, 09:57 AM

Bellhousing 'length' from engine to trans should be about 6 3/8" on both T-50 & W5x.

Andrew

DR86FT

25th August 2010, 11:28 AM

Thanks sam and Andrew I will measure my dellow today

Sam-Q

25th August 2010, 05:53 PM

The input shaft will not reach the spigot bearing so you need to make up a sleeve to extend it, anyone have pics of it?

I don't have one of these on hand but I thought I would mention that I have seen someone machine off either end of a W bell to avoid having to space out the bearing.

Now without seeing one, can someone tell me if it's a possibility to machine a 3sge flywheel to have provision for a bearing in it like the Beams ones?

Sprinter86

25th August 2010, 06:21 PM

Im not sure if these pics will help any further than sam's pics, but ill chuck them up regardless. (This is the very most rearward shifter position, i have another one here that is about 15mm further foward aswell)

oh and i found that the W series shifter can be installed backwards offseting the stick forward, much closer to t50 position, you may want to change the angle of the stick though, oxy and a vice should see you right :)

(housemates camera had fisheye lense, kinda sucks)
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/9/4/51796.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/9/4/51797.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/9/4/51798.jpg

hope this is helpful somehow

biggo

25th August 2010, 06:59 PM

You guys have the wrong shifter positions. RA65 W57's have their shifters in the mid back. Works out perfect when the bell/adaptor spaces the box back 20mm

Sprinter86

25th August 2010, 07:10 PM

what if you arnt using an adaptor to a t50 bell? to far forward or?

biggo

25th August 2010, 07:17 PM

Its a trade off then i guess. I never like the stock 86 shifter position and i think having the shifter back further would be nice. Ke's on the other hand have a far better stock shifter position.

Looks like bending the shifter is the easy way out. That and cut some floor maybe?

Sprinter86

25th August 2010, 07:22 PM

yer im not going to bother changing the shifter position on the gearbox im using, so yes, maybe an inch will be cut out, :S

I like the idea of the adaptor plate to the t50 bell, but is it possible still to use the 230mm late GZE flywheel clutch setup? ive heard that it wont clear :(

hence why i ended up forking out 550 for the niteparts bellhousing

the ra65 shifter position your talking about would probably still be the best imo, but its the only shifter position i cant seem to get my hands on!!! grrr

DR86FT

26th August 2010, 12:02 PM

My dellow bellhousing is roughly 163mm I don't wAnna cut my shifter hole out it. So what car will I find that shifter position

assassin10000

26th August 2010, 01:09 PM

Either you get an adapter plate setup and use the forward most position 17 7/8" (ma61/ra65/etc) like I did/made. Or find the much more rare 19" mid-back which I think may have came out of the sa63. But not 100% sure since we never got it over here in the states.

Andrew

DR86FT

26th August 2010, 05:15 PM

sa63 are the far back ones. i was hoping i got the right one but i didnt.

Sprinter86

26th August 2010, 08:26 PM

just fitted my 58, with the most rearward w series shifter position and a niteparts bellhousing, you will have to cut about 20mm out to fit the shifter, which actually i reallly like where it puts the shifter! pics soon.....

DR86FT

9th September 2010, 10:08 AM

I recently bought a rt142 w55 box I think it's the furthest position forward. What is the t50 shifter position in mm? So I can see how far back it is compared. Will take some pics. Also has anyone checked the gears on the w5x box?

DR86FT

14th September 2010, 02:02 PM

I think the middle one should be in the one thats close to the t50 position.

ae86 slide

16th August 2011, 09:23 AM

Has anyone got some tips on how to line up where to drill the holes in a custom gear box cross member? I have some steel in the right place but working out where to exactly drill the holes is doing my head in.

DR86FT

16th August 2011, 03:45 PM

ae86 slide

17th August 2011, 07:49 AM

if its out of the car and not to much hassle that would be appreciated. thanks

DR86FT

18th August 2011, 09:19 PM

if its out of the car and not to much hassle that would be appreciated. thanks

been busy will take pics and post tomorrow

DR86FT

19th August 2011, 02:39 PM

http://tapatalk.com/mu/3aa3afac-dad5-a486.jpghttp://tapatalk.com/mu/3aa3afac-daed-224c.jpg there u go

ae86 slide

19th August 2011, 07:14 PM

Wow dude that looks awesome, I probably should have tried to source a factory cross member to modify.

This is how mine turned out, big learning curve for me.
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/3/6/2/202236.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/3/6/2/202238.jpg

DR86FT

19th August 2011, 08:08 PM

yeah i didnt make mine, bought it off kelway when he was selling random parts. I think you can use an auto ae71 crossmember and modify that. once i know mine is 100% i have another unmodified crossmember that i will sell

btw yours looks sturdy

mikeyee

9th October 2011, 02:29 PM

picked this thing up locally for cheeep
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/5/1/0/4/243060.jpg

has this adapter plate:
http://www.brdracing.com/t50_t40_w50_drivetrain.htm

$100 USD not toooo bad.

works with standard T50 4AGE bellhousing and W5X trans. T50 fork

apparently i got this transmission from this guy:
http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=79041

and he had some trouble with sourcing his own hardware and having to grind down the back side of the GTS bellhousing.

he had it in his GZE RA celica for some time, but sold it cheap to me because 4th gear was going out, and went with niteparts bellhousing for bigger clutch. i couldn't pass on a $100 tranny + adapter plate + GTS bellhousing deal.

Im trying to go about this on the CHEAP. like cheap resplined clutch, front halfshaft celica. only issue i have is the cross member. whats best/cheapest way? heard some people mention of automatic trans cross members?

edit: found someone confirming it works: http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/tech-conversions/33241-w58-vs-t50-mounts.html

Sam-Q

9th October 2011, 04:42 PM

while that is dirt cheap the problem is it only suits the steel case W50 and not the W55 to 59. I don't know about there but here they arn't easy to come by and they are 45kg. I don't know if the auto crossmemebr would work, depends on if it has the same mounts as the later W boxes.

mikeyee

9th October 2011, 04:47 PM

W-series transmissions all share same bellhousing (transmission side) bolting pattern.

they are similar, only differ in gearings, shifter positioning, and in my case with the w50, the steel casing.

when im not so broke, i'll bite the bullet and buy a proper w-series transmission w/o the steel case.

Sam-Q

9th October 2011, 04:50 PM

are you sure about that because from what I thought was right is they are all the same bar the W50 which shares nothing

mikeyee

9th October 2011, 05:32 PM

hmmm.. double checked my stuffs and i guess the steel case box (w50) is shorter than its siblings...

BUT. i have no doubt that i will have issues swapping transmissions to an alum casing w-series tranny; because this is a popular swap to do with the east coast USA drag racing corollas that boost their 3TCs and such. and they're popping wheelies with W58s.

DX20VT

9th October 2011, 05:59 PM

mikeyee

10th October 2011, 02:44 PM

I too think you will find that the adapter you have will not suit the W55-W59 gearboxes.

I think the only thing similar between a W50 and a W55 is the letter W in the name, none of the rest of the parts are interchangable.

awe man, did more digging. and i lose. apparently the american east coast dudes stick with the steel case w50 because stronger, lasts more wheelies

im going to call BRD tomorrow and see if there is a way to get the adapter plate to work with a w58, since it's advertised to work universally....

Sam-Q

11th October 2011, 01:09 AM

I was talking to a guy that works with me on projects and it looks like he won't be finished his designed, construction, testing and then mass production of these adapter plates till roughly the end of the year, so I can't help you for a while.

mikeyee

11th October 2011, 07:26 AM

ahh just got off the phone with the folks over at BRD racing. cleared up that it only works with the W50. He also said that it's all I will need as it has stronger input/output shafts than alum box W5X.

kind of disappointed, but i'll run it as it is. i'll have to deal with the extra weight.