13b/ae86 conversion [Archive] - AE86 Driving Club ( AE86DC )

maxhag

28th June 2007, 06:01 PM

this beginnig follows on from 'members rides, my second 86 posting'.......

Well i already have a modified 86 crossmember for a S5 13bt and a custom S5 13bt sump to match that crossmember, which i got off this welder/engineer, so i cant really tell you many details on making that. I will try to get a camera soon, so i can take photos of it for you guys....
I can tell you now tho, it will sit FUCKIN close to the firewall, but you dont have to cut it.
I have fucked my back/shoulder at work and i cant do anything, off work 6 weeks. So iam not starting the conversion yet. maybe in a cuple of months.
Does anyone know if 13b and 13bt both have the same sumps? my sump should fit any 13b type motor, right? (hopefully), cause i just want to put a 13b with 48webbers in, and NOT a 13bt........

J. Riftin's the name, Drifting's the game......

maxhag

28th June 2007, 07:15 PM

i hope not. that wouldn't be right.....

DRFTPG

28th June 2007, 07:39 PM

they will probably lock this for some stupid reason just like when they locked my topic cause i wanted to know about a LS1 conversion. If its not a toyota engine or something thats not a popular conversion they lock it.[/b]

they only lock things like LS1 conversions becuase they know its just going to turn into a big bitch fight as LS1's are far to heavy for the front of an 86, whereas a 13B is actually a feasable conversion

DRFTPG

28th June 2007, 07:39 PM

sorry double post

stefan

28th June 2007, 07:55 PM

um with the 13b im 95% sure they use same sump

and you should be running a 52mm webbar and get perifial port done right will pull mad power

seek

28th June 2007, 08:10 PM

refresh the engine before you put it in. i can tell you now that you will only have to pull it out soon after

maxhag

28th June 2007, 08:18 PM

yeah, i know all that. I am just generalising when i say 13b...

Deano

28th June 2007, 08:56 PM

get it bridgeported and listen to the goodness :D

brap brap brap

Shiri

28th June 2007, 09:05 PM

If your using the series 5 Gearbox you are most likely going to have to cut your firewall. The transmission tunnels on AE86's are tiny so your either gonna have to fabricate a new tunnel or adapt the mazda one and that means modifying your firewall. Custom gearbox mounts, custom tailshafts.... sure you know that already... as well as any engineering laws you come across (sure you know the ways around that too)

From what I've seen the easiest way to mount it in the bay is to replace the front timing cover with a 12a, as it can be mounted off the front rather than the side of the block. Then a straight crossmember from one rail to the other and the engine should sit in very easily and away from your firewall.

I don't know about sumps sorry...

edit: Just realised you didn't ask for any info on the conversion... I'll leave it here for future refrence though.

maxhag

28th June 2007, 09:40 PM

no please, i welcome any info.
Ihavent meaured it, but it just looks close to the firewall. it may be ok. the guy said it would be sweet, and i do trust him. i dont have an engine yet, gonna get a fucked one for the build, then get a good one, 13b pp........ Brap Brap
If i use a RX4 gearbox, no chassis mod req, and gearstik comes out in the right spot, i know that for sure...

DRFTPG

28th June 2007, 10:16 PM

for the gearbox i would suggest going a W58 and then buying the adaptor plate from PAC performance. W58's are a common conversion in 86's and a common box used with rotarys. And if your going for a N/A setup then i would go with a Bridgeport as it wont be as noisey as a PP

Shiri

28th June 2007, 11:07 PM

I can't really say if a RX4 gearbox would be a straight fit although I do doubt it from experience... as I said the sprinter transmission tunnel is very thin. Keep us (me) informed if it does bolt fit right into the tunnel.

The W58 is a interesting suggestion... I've never heard it before (13B AE86 with W58 that is) but it seems like it would be your easiest, cheapest and least difficult solution. Have you seen it done son57a

DRFTPG

29th June 2007, 09:32 AM

70XIN

29th June 2007, 11:33 PM

I have Seen W58 conversions in AE86's (See Dr1ft-Pigs members ride) and i have seen W58's matted up to 13B's a thousand times over.

Have a look at this for the different adaptor plates that PAC performance sells. http://shop.pacperformance.com.au/pc-61-49...tor-plates.aspx (http://shop.pacperformance.com.au/pc-61-49-gearbox-adaptor-plates.aspx)[/b]

W58 gearbox and hilux diff are very popular conversions with RX7 owners .. sounds similar to turbo hachis now doesnt it? ;)

Search on ebay and whatnot, you can often buy W58's with the bellhousing adaptor for 12a's/13b's for a damn decent price. It's hard to go past.

DRFTPG

30th June 2007, 09:49 AM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=366207)
I have Seen W58 conversions in AE86's (See Dr1ft-Pigs members ride) and i have seen W58's matted up to 13B's a thousand times over.

Have a look at this for the different adaptor plates that PAC performance sells. http://shop.pacperformance.com.au/pc-61-49...tor-plates.aspx (http://shop.pacperformance.com.au/pc-61-49-gearbox-adaptor-plates.aspx)[/b]

W58 gearbox and hilux diff are very popular conversions with RX7 owners .. sounds similar to turbo hachis now doesnt it? ;)

Search on ebay and whatnot, you can often buy W58's with the bellhousing adaptor for 12a's/13b's for a damn decent price. It's hard to go past.
[/b]

yeh i cant see why you would ise any other gearbox and diff for a 13B conversion in an 86

tipper86

30th June 2007, 11:05 AM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=365870)
they will probably lock this for some stupid reason just like when they locked my topic cause i wanted to know about a LS1 conversion. If its not a toyota engine or something thats not a popular conversion they lock it.[/b]

they only lock things like LS1 conversions becuase they know its just going to turn into a big bitch fight as LS1's are far to heavy for the front of an 86, whereas a 13B is actually a feasable conversion
[/b]

ls1's are not as heavy as you think, they are full alloy. They are actually lighter than a rb25, so there is some food for thought,

DRFTPG

30th June 2007, 06:40 PM

^^ wouldnt an rb25 be to heavy for the front as well?

maxhag

30th June 2007, 07:17 PM

I dont care about LS1 or rb25's. READ THE TOPIC TITLE!
YOU ARE POSTING IN THE WRONG TOPIC!

DRFTPG

3rd July 2007, 10:15 PM

http://www.rotaflo.com.au/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/Sprinter%2013BT%20001sm.jpg

theres a pic of a 13BT in an 86, its the Raceflo car that used to sport a 3SGTE, in the pic it looks like he has modded the firewall as there is a bit of primer action goin on, and he is using a mazdaspeed dog engagement box. Here is a Link to his Forsale Thread On NS (http://www.nissansilvia.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=244036)

**sent him a pm regarding a few things with the conversion** will give you any info i can

maxhag

5th July 2007, 06:37 PM

UPDATE:

I got more info on my 13b conversion package (crossmember, mount and sump).

As i wrote in an earlier post, I said the engine will sit close to the firewall. THS IS NOT TRUE. I said that because I was thinking of a pre-series 5 engine, which have mounts at the front of the engine, therefore i thought it would be close to the firewall. But Series 5 T have the mounts closer to the middle of the engine, one actually bolts underneath to the sump.... So, the engine position has been designed to actually sit the same distance away from the firewall as a 4AGE. PERFECT!

My package was designed for a Series 5 13BT, and nothing before that would bolt up.
SO....

I might have to scrap my plan for the carby 13b, and go with a series 5 turbo motor.
Or do i sell the kit?
just kidding, 13bT Here we come!

DRFTPG

5th July 2007, 07:28 PM

Whered you get the kit from? and could you take some photos of it for us?

maxhag

5th July 2007, 07:58 PM

it was made by a welder/engineer for his personal project! so he did it right!
His car burnt when getting painted....

I will post pics when i got a camera

ae71

5th July 2007, 09:37 PM

13bt in an 86...? a bit over kill isnt it? i personaly dont think that kind of power is needed, and way overkill. i would personaly try and carby it and go a N/A route if possible. atleast look into it unless you do really want turbo.

Matt-AE86

6th July 2007, 11:57 AM

13bt would be good for ke70 I think. Same displacement (1.3L) and as torquey down low as a 4k :)

DRFTPG

6th July 2007, 06:43 PM

cant see why it wont be good in an AE86 either, as long as you dont go stupid with the power outputs, with a good tune for reliability (i know rotary and reliable arnt usually put together but it can be done) it should be an awsome car with plenty of power and tons of revs :D

Intense

29th July 2007, 02:35 AM

What are you going to do about the exhaust. It's on the wrong side of the car so that's no doubt going to cause problems, particularly with the steering column cramping space. I really can't be bothered trying to educate people on the whole rotary's are not reliable crap, so I'll simply say this. Only idiots kill their rotors, if you have half a brain, they are perfectly reliable.

http://www.ausrotary.com/viewtopic.php?t=2735 <---- for all your gearbox needs

You're also going to have to find a way to fit a nice big fat radiator and oil cooler to cope with the 13b.
What are you going to be using this car for, is it going to be regoe'd or just a track crazy weapon?

haado gei

29th July 2007, 02:44 PM

13bt would be good for ke70 I think. Same displacement (1.3L) and as torquey down low as a 4k :)[/b]
I don't know how it works in australia but in other countries rotaries are taxed and registered etc as higher capacity to than the 1.2, 1.3 and 2.0 (from memory something like it's 1.5 times or 2 times the capacity)

rb27dett

29th July 2007, 04:38 PM

WARNING if your going the 13b turbo route be very carefull cause your clutch and brake masters will be too close to the turbo , HEAT sheilds are a MUST if you want your clutch and brakes to work properly . If you don't do this you will almost definately be posting pics of a crashed 13b 86 :( and no one wants to see that .

for the sceptic's I would also like to add that rotors are not unreliable unless you do the wrong thing , most people just don't know how to maintain them or they try to pull huge horsepower out of a motor that has never been rebuilt / has been rebuilt poorly , tuning is another key apsect as rotors go out of tune if you abuse them often , so regular air fuel ratio checks are a must to avoid leaning out . around the 170kw mark will be reliable and it will more than enuff power to give some one in the car a heart attack (trust me) and this number is easily attainable from a 13bt . good luck and I hope it all goes to plan :2thumbs:

andro0o

1st August 2007, 04:12 AM

I have this conversion stuff if anyone wants it,

x members, tailshaft etc.

maxhag

7th August 2007, 05:17 PM

I have this conversion stuff if anyone wants it,

x members, tailshaft etc.[/b]

what diff/gearbox is the tailshaft designed for?
I have engine xmember, custom sump, engine mounts...
what else you got that i might be able to use?

thanks

J.Riftin

andro0o

8th August 2007, 03:42 PM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=382318)
I have this conversion stuff if anyone wants it,

x members, tailshaft etc.[/b]

what diff/gearbox is the tailshaft designed for?
I have engine xmember, custom sump, engine mounts...
what else you got that i might be able to use?

thanks

J.Riftin
[/b]

i jsut sold everything ready to bolt in for 500. but it was pretty weird, was converted to steering box to clear exhaust.

Dongaz

30th August 2007, 04:44 AM

what actually needs to be done to the x member and sump to sit in the correct spot?

maxhag

13th September 2007, 01:18 AM

what actually needs to be done to the x member and sump to sit in the correct spot?[/b]

photos up soon

shorty

29th November 2007, 01:36 AM

pics yet?

very interested :)

maxhag

29th November 2007, 11:37 PM

sorry guys, i've been real busy with work and havent done any more yet.

Still no camera, but i will try to find time this weekend to take some...

Hey DONGAZ, The reason the sump and X member are modified is that so the engine doesnt sit too HIGH in the engine bay, and to keep the engine forward away from the firewall. My 'kit', is designed that so the 13b will sit in the same posttion as a 4a etc. Thus, retaining the cars weight balance etc..... Alot of thought was put into the design..

And with DORI KING's comment about the turbo sitting too close to the brake master + booster and clutch master. This is ONLY a problem if you use the standard turbo manifold. I am planning to use a forward, high mount manifold, which there are so many differant ones availiable out there in Rotorland... This also gives more options for exhaust route.....

Pics soon,

J Riftin

reg450

30th April 2008, 10:44 PM

hey dude any new picks or info on the rotor conversion

DAMO46

1st May 2008, 04:34 AM

hey have a look at this eventhough its a 20b http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvPfi-ZeQRM...feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvPfi-ZeQRM&feature=related)

static

1st May 2008, 05:16 AM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (haado gei @ Jul 29 2007, 01:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=380862)</div>
I don't know how it works in australia but in other countries rotaries are taxed and registered etc as higher capacity to than the 1.2, 1.3 and 2.0 (from memory something like it's 1.5 times or 2 times the capacity)[/b]

Rotaries are classed as being twice their nominated capacity ie a 12a is a 1.2l but is classed as a 2.4l for rego and most racing classes. It has something to do with rotaries doing 2 combustion cycles for every rotation of the crank or eccentric shaft...I think

driftke70

1st May 2008, 04:06 PM

Roku_70

1st May 2008, 08:48 PM

i bought my first hachi a few months back from a guy called dave, he is a member of the dc also. here are some pics of what he had done...

static

2nd May 2008, 05:24 AM

Maddest engine mount I have ever seen

word :huh:

sr_rolla

3rd May 2008, 08:02 PM

with the sump, rocket industries have a custom sump that is designed to fit a KE70/AE86 crossmember, i have a feeling its a design from the peurto ricken drag starlets/corollas.

just thought i should share

maxhag

4th May 2008, 03:37 AM

Heres the kit.

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/169292.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/169293.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/169294.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/169295.jpg

reg450

6th May 2008, 07:24 PM

i got one of those sumps priced from rocket was going to cost me 450 and i work in an auto shop thats to much its a moroso. is there nyone on this forum who has running 13b sprinter please pics photos info I'm about to do this convertion want info

troy bro

Ke70alex

6th May 2008, 08:31 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cmesld @ May 6 2008, 06:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=527347)</div>
i got one of those sumps priced from rocket was going to cost me 450 and i work in an auto shop thats to much its a moroso. is there nyone on this forum who has running 13b sprinter please pics photos info I'm about to do this convertion want info

troy bro[/b]
wtf <_<

slow down and make sense, might get some better amswers fella????

kazman

6th May 2008, 09:29 PM

I have a Renesis engine, ECU and Manual G/B coming up in the next few weeks.
My brother is removing it out of his RX8 to make way for a 2J.
I think he'll be chasing about $4k for everything (done about 50,000 km).
Not really sure how much they're worth to honest (so please don't crucify me for the price).
I personally prefer the 13B but if anyone is interested I can put in a good word.

LAZY

6th May 2008, 11:11 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SON57A @ Jul 6 2007, 05:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=369886)</div>
can't see why it wont be good in an AE86 either, as long as you don't go stupid with the power outputs, with a good tune for reliability (i know rotary and reliable arnt usually put together but it can be done) it should be an awsome car with plenty of power and tons of revs :D[/b]

sure you don't, more like word of mouth.

DRFTPG

6th May 2008, 11:41 PM

i am looking at buying a ke70 project car and i will probably go 13b with it.

i will think about using the stock ke70 crossmember with modded engine mounts to suit... a w58 gearbox and probably an e series diff...but i may change my mind depending on what is available at the time haha

i will be looking into the rocket industries kit as that would be a life saver haha

sr_rolla

20th June 2008, 08:21 PM

Just so you all know, i did all the legwork recently about getting a 13b registered in a KE70, you can register/engineer a 13b N/A but not turbo in NSW, and theres no current way around it, according to the engineers i spoke to they are collectively trying to get a few rules changed that MAY allow a 13bt in a KE70/AE86 but its illegal atm.

The rules that kill it are the ones concerning what capacities are allowed for a given weight, atm, the rules state that for n/a u get the cars weight in kg's, multiply by 3 and thats the biggest motor you can run in cc's, with turbo its only 2.5. Unfortuntely, a 13b has an accual capacity but as hilltop_hodlum said, hey are classed at double there actual capacity, so a 13b which is actually 1308cc's is classed as having 2616cc's so it aint allowed. By what i've been told, some engineers are trying to get the turbo rule changed to 2.75.

On top of that, rotors struggle to pass the emissions standards required aswell (kinda depends on the engineer and the year model of the car). So to get a rotor passed in anything but a mazda in NSW is a serious pain in the arse. I tried <_<

I know that Maxhag is in the ACT according to his sig at least but i thought i'd put it up anyways, always fun 2 crush some dreams... i mean help out :lol: