how to heel and toe better

[rthy]

I thought I would post this because I am sure its not common knowledge.

A local sprinter has an accelerator peddle that is about 10 to 15mm further away from the brake peddle than an ae71. For drift or street driving I recommend to people with roughly size 10 feet or smaller (I have a size 8) to change to this peddle on their 86.

Heres a rough guide how you can tell if it will help you depending on your style: Put your foot vertical over the last third of the brake and it f you twist your foot and still hit the peddle then you probably wont need it. Come to think of it I will take a photo.

When I mastered the "hell and toe" in my ae71 and then went to my sprinter I kept on missing the peddle, but after I swapped it I was back to my old tricks in no-time. It fits straight in but is a total bitch to get in there, you have been warned!

short and simple

[ke70kid86]

good topic, ive been thinking about this alot lately, and i couldnt figure it out.

i know that you can heel and toe, when you wana slow down the front and keep the backing comming out, but ive seen like all the pro drivers hill and toeing when there shifting down and slowing down, i want to ask what is the purpose of doing this?

can someone please shed some light please.

cheers, issa.

[hatzo]

The engine acts like a brake.

Heel and toeing is matching revs of the engine and gear ratio to the road speed.
Thus allowing greater braking capacity.

I think that explains it.

[rthy]

no, or well not the main reason atleast

for a down change the engine revs would be lower than what it should be, so in other words when the clutch is let out the engine has to speed up and it takes time, you cant get into the gear you want quickly. It is also to not cause any harshness that could lose traction.

One last perk is that on just about every sprinter box you will be able to drive it without a clutch, saved my butt a few times now.

By pulsing the accelerator to line up the speed the clutch can be fully droped with no shutter or hashness at all if its timed right. Practice makes perfect on this one.

heres an example: if you example your heading to a corner at 100 and in third gear you slam on the brakes till you get to 80, then you will need to get into second gear and before the apex too so you can accelerate hard out of it. So while your still on the brakes you use your heel to stab the throttle till the engine revs are to the right revs and then you can dump your clutch. Get it wrong and your car can do a compression enduced oversteer.

I personaly think a tacho is unwanted in doing all this, you just dont have time and its to hard to get right that way.

Hey guys what do you think of this: I am thinking of filming me driving while there is a camera on my feet showing how I do heel and toe driving, would that help anyone?

[hatzo]

You explanation is alot better than mine :2thumbs:

I drive for a living , so its a heavily used method to decelerate.

Clutchless changes? Which way Up, Down or Both?

edit reason: got a bit off topic

[ke70kid86]

thanks for that mate, much appreciated :2thumbs:

yea post the video up, make it like a commentry one as well, so it stands out from like the 100000000 of others on the net.

like what to do and why you do it at each stage.

thanks alot, issa.

[wooley]

You explanation is alot better than mine :2thumbs:

I drive for a living , so its a heavily used method to decelerate.

Clutchless changes? Which way Up, Down or Both?

edit reason: got a bit off topic[/b]

clutchless is easy changing up.
but we're talking about hell&&toe so i assume hes talking about down.... wack. haha.

[rthy]

yes if you line up the revs changing up and down gears is not that big a deal for an average sprinter box. I managed to drive 40km without a clutch when I melted my pressure plate in melbourne city.

phat_man: what commentary do I add? how does this sound, don think I have the ability to do it though:

I do I have a gear change and then replay it in slow motion where text appears on the screen saying why I am doing what I am doing.

any good?

[us_ae86]

Look at my pedals before i yanked them out...


http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/157272.jpg

[us_ae86]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=426586)
Look at my pedals before i yanked them out...[/b]

its on the wrong side lol
[/b]
Not for long....

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/157282.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/157283.jpg

[rthy]

chris: thats a good setup



my peddles with the ae71 conversion:


http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/157400.jpg




heres how I do my normal downchanges:

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/157401.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/157402.jpg




and for my hills starts as well as normal in traffic driving:

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/157403.jpg

[ke70kid86]

yes if you line up the revs changing up and down gears is not that big a deal for an average sprinter box. I managed to drive 40km without a clutch when I melted my pressure plate in melbourne city.

phat_man: what commentary do I add? how does this sound, don think I have the ability to do it though:

I do I have a gear change and then replay it in slow motion where text appears on the screen saying why I am doing what I am doing.

any good?[/b]
yea thats what i was thinking, would be heaps helpful.

thanks mate, issa.

[rthy]

ok that sounds manageable, but I will need to do some very carefull camera postioning and I will need my friends help to edit the film

[roadsailing]

you can heel and toe in blundstiones? man you aret he king :P

i never really heel and toe, should practice it some day. i made up a checkerplate accelerator cover to help with it, but it pissed me off so i threw it away/

[ke70kid86]

ok that sounds manageable, but I will need to do some very carefull camera postioning and I will need my friends help to edit the film[/b]
sound fun, just please becareful doing it, dont want you to get hurt, or caught or something. especially over me encouraging something.

btw, i still cant exaclty why its still done, i got the bit when they dont use a clutch, but they usually do use the clutch when there changing. but im sure your vid will explain that.

ok i just wanted to ask something about it as well. your going into a turn ur going to shift down, you putfoot on brake's, then u clutch in engage in the gear down (say second) then dap the throttle then you release clutch?

or do you dab the throttle while your shifting? <<but im sure that doesnt work as well, and isnt as healthy, or am i wrong about that?

btw thanks alot SAM Q st cred ^^^ :2thumbs:

cheers, issa.

[ke70kid86]

Look at my pedals before i yanked them out...


http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/157272.jpg[/b]
you automaticaly hill and toe, just when your press the brakes :P

joking, thats an awesome set up, did you just bend the pedals how you wanted them?

[rthy]

roadsailing: hhehhe you ahd a simular reaction to that of my friend when he found out about that. You see I gained a fair bit of experince driving 40min to work every day when I was younger and thats the style of boots I wore. But later on I had problems with my feet (flat feet they call it) and I had custom in-soles made up, anthying else is a bit concomfatable. What that meant for me is that I have only had shoes on other than these once in the last 3 months I think. So yeah all my driving manouvers are done with what you see here.


phat man: dont worry I wouldn't be stupid enough to try and drive whilst holding a camera. I will just employ the services or one of my almost equally loopy friends. I drive like I do every single day and he just films.

ok with the clutch thing, using a heel and toe lets the speeds line up and it makes it possible to change gears without a clutch, but its a slow process, only good for clutch problems. The main thing I am talking about is just to speed an engine up before letting the clutch out so you dont have to wait for it. Think of this: a simpler variation is just if you want to drop down from fourth to second in a 60 zone, you dont need to brake so you can just do the following:

- clutch in
- change gear whist pushing your foot on the accelerator
- wait a very short moment till the revs sound right
- let the clutch out

instead of doing this:

- clutch in
- change gear
- gently let the clutch out and let the driveline spin the engine get up to the speed

I think if I do a video I will go through this exact steps, you know I think that part of the video would need little to no editing so it would really easy to do.

as for the street cred, i think I stick to myself too much to have street cred, man if people knew what I used to do at night in the dark in the rain by myself... I have only ever had one passeneger witness what I used to do. Not that I would do anyting bad on public streets or encourage such a thing of course.

[v-tec]

Intesting stuff Sam, it hadnt really clicked for me that the 71 pedels were closer, but most of the quick shifting i do is in my 71 so i guess thats why i hadnt noticed it being hard to do in the 86.

I find with the 71 i dont need to heel and toe so much, just as long as i rev match but its definately helpful advice for anyone. Closer pedels would be much better for anyone that does sprint days or club runs etc. :)

[johnny_08]

would u be able to cut the adm pedal of a sprinter and weild it on closer? like bac on to the metal rod thing, or is it plastic?

[rthy]

well actually it seems to be morso the length of shaft after the 90 degree bend, there would be no problem cutting that and rewelding it short, it would need to be a really good weld though, I dont know if I could trust it

[ke70dave]

ah the good ol' heal toe..

pretty sure this is the most seen scene in initial D :lol:

i find the heal toe pretty usefull, one thing, that i dont think has been mentioned.

is that i find it allows me to keep hands on the steering wheel more when driving relatively briskly...

for instance, come up to a corner in 3rd, need to change to 2nd, but revs are too low,

clutch in....
brake and accelerator...both go down in proper proportions
now revs are up, can change to 2nd
both hands back on wheel to drive through corner, in 2nd at usable revs

with this theres no waiting for revs to build up, before braking (ie. matching revs with pressing accelerator no braking)

and i guess you can drive a little faster, as you can brake later, and still get revs up for next gear

[nath]

well actually it seems to be morso the length of shaft after the 90 degree bend, there would be no problem cutting that and rewelding it short, it would need to be a really good weld though, I dont know if I could trust it[/b]

y would u bother welding ...

just get a set of rice pedals throw them in, will fix the gap thats what i've always done, ebay under $20

i learnt heel n toe by accident on may way to work there is a down hill bit corner than a steep up hill and u need as much speed as possibly to get up and when it rains water pools mid corner (bottom of bulli pass)

one day i threw 4th back 3rd compression lock + rear wheel aqua plane and only just missed a cement wall from that day i always gave the throttle a kick. i only had my p's for 3 weeks

my style has changed as well as most do i've gone from a sloppy as hell double clutch quick tap as fast i could, to just given it a nice half sec of throttle, nice and smooth

['Red_Hachi_Box']

After reading the majority of useful posts made in this thread, really what ive come to understand is heel'n'toe can be used to keep your revs high instead of losing them while changing gears or braking.. This would have been a technique designed idealy for racing/cornering? I cant see it beeing useful for drifting although, someone prove me wrong?

For those that want to try and close the gap between your pedals, try your Automotive stores (autobahn, super cheap auto?).. There are plenty of covers that will bolt on and increase your pedal size, may even make them look purtee :wub:

I can see changing gears without the clutch beeing a bit messy, might leave that one a while :lol:

Thanks Sam Q, Dillon

[stuntman]

After reading the majority of useful posts made in this thread, really what ive come to understand is heel'n'toe can be used to keep your revs high instead of losing them while changing gears or braking.. This would have been a technique designed idealy for racing/cornering? I cant see it beeing useful for drifting although, someone prove me wrong[/b]

dude have u ever tryed braking hard and gearing down by simply releasing the clutch as fast as when you heal toe??? heal toe is clutch in, change gear(and match the revs with the heal of course), clutch out and no wasting time easing it out, which remindes me of another reason that hasnt been mentioned, its less stress on your clutch.

i started doing heal toe when ever i felt safe to do it as in not in traffic and when i had plenty of time to brake before i had to stop at the stop sign etc and progressed from there, now i do it all the time becaus it makes sence and thats how i drive and about a year ago had to get used to not doing it when i drive certain cars caus the pedels are spaced too far (eg. 2004 landcruiser) and stuff like that but yeah still gearing down. also do other people use the ball of the foot or the actual toe (or that area if your wearing shoes) caus i would never use my actual toes as the expression goes for obvious i would think reasons unless people think otherwise.

I'm size 12 and pedal spacing is nice for me but i havent driven an ae71 so i cant compare.

[raceAE86]

Heel toe is manly used for circuit racing, the idea is to match your revs with the motor while changing down gears so you dont lose revs between gear changes, you know you have done a perfect heel toe when you release the clutch and your engine revs dont change, for example you come in to a corner heel toe rev the motor to about 7000rpm release the clutch and the tacho [if you have one] should read the same if not a little bit more but you can tell by just listening to what the motors doing, you know when you have done it because it sounds and feels perfect.

[ke70kid86]

Sam_Q your a absolute ledgend, and i mean that. :2thumbs:

did my first proper heel-toe 2night, was awesome.

relating to above post, i think i did that 2night, about like 10mins ago :rolleyes: was an awsome feeling, 3rd to second, clutch in, dabbed the gas as i pushed the stick to second, released the clutch, no jerking and revs stayed the same... :blush: so smooth.

i think i now know what you were talking about with matching the revs, keeping it in its power range, sort of like flat changing equivalent, but for when changing down.

i also had ago at that, half your foot on the gas, and half on the brake, felt really weird, and i didnt like it much because my shoes (asics) were griping to the pedals, so i had trouble sliding my foot over to the gas once i wanted just gas... i think im going to stick to the heel-toe one, liked it much much more.

does anyone else have problems with there steering wheel getting in the way of there knees/legs?

ps. i didnt do this speeding at all, and wasnt around traffic...

once again, thanks alot mate.

cheers, issa.

[stuntman]

thats cool yeah i know wat u mean about the steering wheel getting in the way it helps with a smaller aftermarket wheel but all cars are different i find i can heel toe my parents exel at the position the seat is at without shoes although its a little cramped, but with boots i cant, i'd have to move the seat back to a point where i couldnt change gears without throwing my shoulders into it and my arms would be outstretched on the steering wheel. Keep practicing theres nothing dangerous about heal toe changing just learning it in the begining it'll become natural with practice and time.

[Dish]

My 86 came with a takumi pedal when I bought it, excellente for heal and toe. (Takumi pedal is probably about 12-20mm longer).

When I heal toe most of the time it's the side of my foot near the arch that actually hits the pedal. I use heal and toe even while daily driving, just my driving style.

[Matt-AE86]

I bent my last pedal by hand, worked good :)

[ke70kid86]

with bending pedals, and/or adding after market pedals, how do you know that your still being able to press down 100% of the way on the throttle, brakes, and clutch?

its something ive always thought about as well, i drive an ae93sx bigport (looking for a ae86 to buy) and its got all normal pedals except for the gas, its a cheap aftermarket one i bought the car with, and the throttle has a small amount of travel, so its pretty sensitive comapred to other cars, but im curious to find out how can you tell that its opening the throttle body the whole way.

btw this is no means of hijacking, just while were on the topic of pedals.

cheers, issa.

[Wanabe_Garage]

Hey Phat_man

get a friend to see if the cable is rotating the actuator all way around while you hold down the pedel

[ke70kid86]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wanabe_Garage @ Oct 28 2007, 04:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=427182)</div>
Hey Phat_man

get a friend to see if the cable is rotating the actuator all way around while you hold down the pedel[/b]
thanks for that, forgot about that :blink:

what about the clutch and the brake?

*edit* lol, sorry that sounds stupid, i guess the brakes would be fine, just test them if they stop the car or not, but with the clutch, how would you tell? just go for a drive and ride the clutch(kick it all the way in, and ride it like that) to see if you can smell the clutch cooking?

[johnny_08]

i only use heel toe to make a smoother change down in gears, or just blip the throttle when down shifting (no braking)

[rthy]

phat man: good to hear it worked out for you, keep practicing and it will become second nature. Trust me on this one.

[ke70kid86]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sam_Q @ Oct 29 2007, 05:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=427661)</div>
phat man: good to hear it worked out for you, keep practicing and it will become second nature. Trust me on this one.[/b]
thanks man, will do.

makes driving that little extra bit more enjoyable

[Driftspec]

Good article (as usual ;) ) Sam, and good discussion.

Heel and toe can be quite important while driving. I use it mainly to drive nice and smooth on downchanges, but when it gets hektik it certainly aids to keep good corner speed and preventing loss of traction (although compression lock can be fun :D )

Its all about timing, you can time it right and get a good result: On the brake, clutch in to change gears, change gears, blip the throttle enough to match the revs, off the clutch. Thats the idea anyway. Get the timing wrong, and it ends up either being too higher revs (which sounds like crap and feels bad as the engine rapidly has to decelerate), or not enough revs, which ends up having the same effect as not heel-toeing at all. After that, you can work on getting the same result with as little throttle percentage as possible (less fuel consumption).

If you watch professional drivers (such as V8 Supercar Drivers) they generally have the pedals pretty close together so that they can hit up the throttle in as little time as possible, to keep the 'flow' of the lap going. I'm still experimenting with heel-toeing for drifting, I'm sure there's plenty of people with more experience than me that doing it. I'm guessing you can control the momentum of the car, and the grip at the front by grabbing the brake at the same time as the throttle.

Experiment with it while you drive, take it easy at first as you can't get in too much trouble while doing it.

[Akury]

another good way to put it is compression lock, if you're taking a corner hard and have an LSD, especially a 2 way, you need to match the revs of the gear you're downshifting into mid turn, otherwise the engine will slow the wheels down too much and break traction, when you least want it. I was at the track my first time, and my second lap was taking a corner, didn't heel toe down to second, it just spun me right around.

[rthy]

yes I forgot to mention about that:

if you have 2 way LSD and you just down change harshly around a corner you will have a very harsh suprise indeed.

[johnny_08]

hey does compression lock on a car with a 2 way effect the diff or the axle?

[ae71]

i bent my gas peddle out ward so it almost lines up with the other peddles

[ke70dave]

^^ yer me to, it bends back over time, just gota rebend it out.

i couldn't help but comment, that heal toe was the very first thing i tried when i got my license, in my FWD 1984 mazda 323!!

i am amazed how some of you are so "WOW" about it, dont you watch car videos or something :lol:

nothing against anybody here, just intrigued me thats all :2thumbs:

[rthy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Johnny_08 @ Oct 30 2007, 10:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=428023)</div>
hey does compression lock on a car with a 2 way effect the diff or the axle?[/b]

a compression lock is hard on the whole driveline, particully on the axles

[ae71]

ke70dave: you would be suprised how many people dont!

depends on how hard you mash it as to if it bends back.. i had a bit of troble bending it in the first place.. i think i jacked up the car and chucked it under a tyre lol

[verm69]

I'm genuinely surprised about how many people don't know about rev matching when changing down gears! I LOVE doing it in my mates SSS Pulsar :D the N/A SR is surprisingly responsive!

[eightsixboy]

As far as i'm concerned its the only way to drive properly. Theres nothing worse then when you down shift and the whole car pulls up its revs. I've been doing it ever since i got my 86.

Funny how ppl change pedal boxes though as i have just gotten used to the wide spacing between pedals. My mates jdm mr2 has the worst pedal setup, when you push on the brake pedal it goes down further then the accelerator thus making it almost impossible to do the heel toe move.

[ke70kid86]

lol at the 1st thing you did when you got your licence.

the 1st thing i did, even before i got my licence was flat change, in a civic :P

the only reason why i didnt use heel-toe before was because i didnt exacly know what it did, plus i drive a FWD, and i thought it was for slowing the front down and flicking the back out :unsure: lol...<<<<NOOB.

live and learn i suppose.

cheers, issa.

[riojin]

hmmmm

i could probably heel and toe better if i used my toe on the break and my heel on the throttle. didnt even think of it until i read this thread

[Bustin_86]

^^^ That is how you are supposed to heel and toe man.

[Chrisso]

Not for street driving, and definitely not kind on the old box, but left foot braking and clutchless downshifting for those extra tenths of a second on the track.

Note: this may require a spare gear box until you get it right!

[86adz]

i also bent my accelerator pedal outward and slightly closer to the brake pedal for more effective heel and toeing

[rthy]

during my normal driving today I thought how it would be if I had my peddle more outwards and I dont think it would help me, right now to apply some hard braking and hit the throttle at the same time my foot is level and that is perfect for me.

However everyone is different and has different styles. I would imagine the tequnique for a tall person is very different due to an 86's limited room.

[Driftspec]

For those with larger feet, actually heel and toeing can be bad, with the 86 pedals you can easily angle your foot slightly and pick up the throttle with the side of your foot, or the top right corner of the shoe. How easy you can do it depends on how close to the wheel you are (and if your legs foul on the steering wheel). Practice with he car parked is advised on those situations :D You also need to be careful of the brake pressure you can add by moving your foot to grab the throttle. Sometimes you can grab the brake a little more when you go to blip the throttle, and come off it by the same amount when you return to normal foot position. Its OK on the street (feels weird in the car though), but on the racetrack when you are running at the limit, it can be the difference between entering and exiting the corner smoothly, to having a locked brake, loosing time and rhythm in the process.

Its amazing how conscious you become while heel-toeing when you actually start thinking about it, despite doing it since when I started driving. Something else I've been doing, is knocking the car out of gear while decelerating, to spend less time on the clutch to pop it back in gear (its my daily, I don't want to break my box just yet :P )

Compression lock is a funny thing, it shakes the whole car, so rear diff, axles, mounts, bushes, suspension components, chassis, drive shaft, gearbox, clutch and engine all cop a bit of a shock when you do it, especially on a dry surface with grippy tyres. Doesn't stop me from doing it to improve the angle of the car when I turn in to work of a morning. I have an open diff, so its controllable at slower speeds. 2-ways would be a lot more interesting...

[ke70kid86]

been practising, been getting them right on pretty much about 60%of the time, but i just got back from driving, i was wearing thongs, i take them off when i drive, so i was doing it barefoot, did it perfectly about 98% of the time. feels so good not feeling giving it second.

[Gilly]

just a heads up on the comp lock with a 2 way

it can be a nasty situation

mine was accidental, entering a roundabout, heel toe down change to second and my foot slipped off the throttle so it didn't blip the throttle at all hence the comp lock. car stepped out, my brain was still in the mindset of having to blip the throttle so my foot jumped back on the gas.

i shit myself

car next to me shit myself as i looked through my windscreen in to his passenger window

car behind me though it was great

so comp lock + 2 way = bad

unless you are ready for it and then it can be fun..

[driftke70]

i learnt to heal and toe from rock crawling in my 4by, my keto is a piece of piss in comparison, only use it on down changes to keep the revs up so when it comes time to tap the clutch to get it out i dont have to rev it up and pop the clutch. I took my stock rubber pedal covers off and put skate board grip tape over the metal plates for more grip. I dont have very big feet (10.5) so i dont know why you guys are having any problems.

[johnny_08]

does it really kick out that much? shit. I've tried to do it once or twice but not fast tho, just to see what its like, maybe i didnt have enough rpm

[ke70dave]

^^^ yer man even my open wheeler kicks out

i was driving through the mountains the other night and came into a corner a little to fast, car slightly understeered, so i compression locked it around the corner.

worked well! completely got rid of the understeer, just a slight amount of countersteering to keep it straight, and on my merry way!

i find the heal and toe is usefull for just making driving smooth, can change to whatever gear i want (within reason) and so long as you match the revs the car stays relatively smooth. of course the engine is revving its guts out, but the passengers are comfortable:P

also heres something else

if you heal and toe perfectly, you can change gears without using the clutch at all, and matching the revs also saves on synchros in your gearbox.

a variation on the "heal-toe" goes like this

in 3rd driving along
change to neutral
rev up the engine (with gbox still in neutral)
at this point if you have matched the revs perfectly it should go into 2nd gear perfectly with no clutch at all

you will know you have done it perfectly, as the gears wont grind:P and also the shift into 2nd is incredibly smooth, like its extremely noticeable.

i have done this quite a few times, but its a bit of a stuff around, and im not sure how much gain you get, its fun trying though

ive been told that the reason this happends, is when you rev the gearbox in neutral, (clutch engaged, so your foot is off it) the gearbox input shaft and lay shaft are at the same speed, so when it comes time to change the gears, the gears are going at exact same speed already, and you just have to mesh them together.

i dunno if that explanation is correct, but its something like that.

this post is way to long!

[Gavin]

this web site is great for understanding this sort of stuff I use it heaps
http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving/driving_heeltoe.shtml

[55psi]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (riojin @ Oct 30 2007, 05:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=428316)</div>
hmmmm

i could probably heel and toe better if i used my toe on the break and my heel on the throttle. didnt even think of it until i read this thread[/b]

LOL how else would u have done it?
I heel and toed as soon as i got my p's as well, its all about making sure ur passengers are comfortable. Driving an all time 4wd is slightly more difficult in making it smooth (i drive a forester) compared to an open diff car.

[roadsailing]

FFS guys, its "pedal" not "peddle"!!!!!!!!

[DavisJD]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
QUOTE (riojin @ Oct 30 2007, 05:57 PM)
hmmmm

i could probably heel and toe better if i used my toe on the break and my heel on the throttle. didnt even think of it until i read this thread[/b]


LOL how else would u have done it?[/b][/quote]

Depending on your pedal position, some people find it easier to use the inside and outside of the foot, still slightly angled though, this can be handy for people with big feet.

You all should try heel toeing a car with throttle lag (my 4agze with front mount!). You litterally smash the throttle with your heel to get any revs at all. Quite fun once your used to it, ususally backfires to! (yeh..... real good tune!)

[johnny_08]

or another way i found is to, when coming up to a roundabout at moderate speed, 60 or so, just keep ur foot on the accelerator, like dont move it from where it is and change gears, using the clutch tho. Smooth shift if done right :2thumbs:


edit: actually its quite fricken easy :P

[ke70kid86]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Johnny_08 @ Nov 4 2007, 08:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=431228)</div>
or another way i found is to, when coming up to a roundabout at moderate speed, 60 or so, just keep ur foot on the accelerator, like dont move it from where it is and change gears, using the clutch tho. Smooth shift if done right :2thumbs:


edit: actually its quite fricken easy :P[/b]
isnt that a flat change, or do you mean shifting down?

im going to try that.

[flamingheads]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DavisJD @ Nov 3 2007, 09:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=430820)</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
QUOTE (riojin @ Oct 30 2007, 05:57 PM)
hmmmm

i could probably heel and toe better if i used my toe on the break and my heel on the throttle. didnt even think of it until i read this thread[/b]

LOL how else would u have done it?[/b][/quote]

Depending on your pedal position, some people find it easier to use the inside and outside of the foot, still slightly angled though, this can be handy for people with big feet.

You all should try heel toeing a car with throttle lag (my 4agze with front mount!). You litterally smash the throttle with your heel to get any revs at all. Quite fun once your used to it, ususally backfires to! (yeh..... real good tune!)
[/b][/quote]

I reckon it depends if the accellerator or brake is higher. In some of my cars I've heel an toed with the toe on the accellerator and some the opposite. One way just feels right and the other one doesn't.

[Chrisso]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RoadSailing @ Nov 3 2007, 01:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=430543)</div>
FFS guys, its "pedal" not "peddle"!!!!!!!![/b]

Well that depends on what you're pushing, a lever or drugs? :D

[Joel-AE86]

Back when my AE86 was running I had the same issue with trying to hit my throttle with my heel...but I could never get it.

Also, my throttle would sit higher than my brake pedal making it hard to reach back for the throttle with my heel. As a result I used to brake with my heel and throttle with my toe!

Since drivings E7's for the last few years I have since changed this.

Cheers for the info Sam, I reckon i'll give that a shot on my hachi.

[GAKI86]

the wax on and wax off of heel and toe....

1 cut exhaust just before the cat
2 start/drive car with out stalling
3 attempt performing heel and toe while driving at round abouts without stalling
4 ???
5 profit!!!

[Gunner]

i just bent the pedal, wasnt in the right spot, got the shits n kicked, to my surprise it was perfect, better then the ae111.

[AE86_4life]

I had a mate who says to me man dnt waste ur time heal and toeing ur not some pro drive LMAO so anyway my first ever spur run and i am at the start of the right hand corner in 3rd gear and i decide to gear down two words COMPRESSION LOCK car started to losse traction i clutch in imidiatly. Heal and toeing is vital especially if u drive an NA car where ur reves are always so high. As for my mates advice thatsn the last time i listen to him LOL

[ae71]

just tap the brakes and it would have been fully skiddin kabab bro...

[mc68]

all the cars i learnt to drive in would not change down unless you had the revs matched perfectly, thank god for paddock bashers! i have had the luxury of hydraulic clutches the past few years, my current shitter has a very worn cable clutch...there's a delay in what you foot is doing to what the pressure plate actually does..trying to get the revs up and the clutch engaged at the right time is difficult, you can't double clutch because the pedal doesn't return fast enough!

[Mr Fujiwara]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Johnny_08 @ Oct 28 2007, 07:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=427288)</div>
i only use heel toe to make a smoother change down in gears, or just blip the throttle when down shifting (no braking)[/b]

i rev match (thats what i call it) in every single car i drive, i started doing it on L's, as soon as i got my Ps in my *chrysler galant* daily i started heel and toeing, it takes a little while to pick up, but once anyone gets to know thier car, they can do it, i have been driving like this to the point where i can now (in my daily) heel and toe flatshift downshift, once you know your car you can do anything, slam the clutch 24/7 with no jerking and because you know your ratios and you know how fast your revs drop etc.

i think having an aggressive clutch teaches you to drive properly faster than anything else possible could, i have a 4puck in my daily, and 3 puck in my sprinter, these clutches mean if you want to drive fast you need to get your revs right, for change ups or change downs.

ialso think the lack of brake assist on my Chrysler helped, as the brakes were not so touchy.

once you get the feel and co-ordination of the clutch accelerator and brakes and shifter all dialed you can do it on ANY car, i drive a lot of customers cars at work, and to be honest i do rev match and heel and toe (where pedals allow) almost every manual car, even a HSV GTS (307kw) holden the other day!!!
haha.

watch vids and practice practice practice, its seriously worth it, its 2nd nature once you get used to it.

*edit* some spelling :P

[squish]

heel toe with a loud car and people just look at you weirdly

[stylz]

lol, yeap. there is a down side to having a loud car :\

[lowa]

Yeah my bro passed on this habit to me when i was on my L's too....mum and dad were like what the hell are doing that for?? haha


Just do it for a bit and yeah will become second nature....i have to tell myself not to do it now.....bit of a bad habit on the streets cause yeah i do get some funny looks and I'm pretty sure i wake the neighbours every saturday night!!

Works very well on the track cause when your hammering into a corner you don't wanna worry bout letting the clutch out smooth just give it a quick blip and dump tha mofo....

Would save the clutch a bit too.... :D

[Toy-Yoda]

I heel and toe as I downshift all the time, especially in the hachback, because otherwise I feel guilty about unloading the rear end and placing heaps more pressure than I have to on the clutch..........

Did it coming into the Coles carpark once in front of a bunch of the Targa Tas boys, and they're all staring me down as I get out of the car to go and get my bread and milk, give em a nod, keep on doing what I do, lol.

[DAMO46]

good tutorial haha

[shinny]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kAm @ Mar 22 2008, 02:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=505724)</div>
heel toe with a loud car and people just look at you weirdly[/b]


hahah i hear that,

i don't have too much trouble in my sprinter, but i find bigger shoes help,

[gumbie]

I learned to heal and toe on my Ls too. The car I was learning to drive in had a rooted gearbox and would crunch unless you did. Then a bit later it saved me from being stuck when my daily broke the clutch cable, plus I was lasy and didn't change it for around 6 months.

[slipps]

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=klMur6TPkrM&...feature=related (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=klMur6TPkrM&feature=related)

good vid on it and nice 86

[rthy]

that reminds me I still need to get around to making that instructional video

[driftke70]

gotta draw the line somewhere

[letsgohunting]

:rolleyes:


Rev matching is a normal part of driving, not some sweet skill you've acquired. It's normal to match the revs when you change down gears if you're carrying any sort of pace - anybody who doesn't know how to do that should be driving an automatic. It is not normal or needed to heel and toe into a coles carpark. Heel and toe is used to keep the revs up while downshifting as to not disturb the balance of the car whilst entering (and intending to exit) a corner at a high pace.

[HachiRoku]

^I liked your other (pre-edited) post better :lol:

[letsgohunting]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HachiRoku @ May 5 2008, 07:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=526906)</div>
^I liked your other (pre-edited) post better :lol:[/b]

Me too - don't think the mods did though...

[ae71]

if anyone looks at you weird cause you heel and toe, smack them with you kabab (food kind)



always have one in the glove box just incase. i like a loud car except when i see coppers and they glare at me. if only they knew lol.