rebuilding engine

[number_33]

Seems that my engine decided to end its life today. So i did some research and of course need some good advice and find out what i can do to get my engine running back again.

I am planning to stay NA and of course going for stronger life on the engine, so forging will be my main aim and rebuilding the bigport is what i am thinking but if anyone has a good idea or the right direction, do shade some light.

I came across the toda kit and below are the items.

-toda forged pistion set ( 82mm 20mm pin)
-camshafts
-cam pulleys
-inner shim kit
-metal head gasket 0.6mm

I understand everything and look for what to get for this kit but something came across my mind that makes me still thinking is that just enough to safely keep my engine to last. so here some questions

1. the piston says (82mm and 20mm pin), does this fit on a bigport 93kw? Do i need to machine the head or block to fit it?

2. conrods, do i use back stock conrods? toda doesn't sell conrods, so if going forgies what should i get and what measurement?

3. crank, do i use back stock crank? i do not plan to incrase the displacement, but i see that the pistion if using the (82mm 20mm pin) some how increase the displacement like to 1627cc. So using stock crank, or do i balance, or go for something solid?


I am just guessing that piston, conrods, and crank are making me to think carefully, is that all or maybe there is some more that i need to look deeper into also?

[slide86]

what actually happened to your engine?

[Fozz]

Do u need to rebuild the whole motor? what exactly happened/broke?

if your on a budget check out spool products they are pretty cheap but dunno what the quality would be like on them

[number_33]

the engine lost a compression on a cyclinder after a hard thrashing, so i just thought myself better to rebuild it. i mention at the start, is there other way that the engine can decided to end its life?

[number_33]

i was just thinking if i am gonna spend money, myself just getting it done properly rather then saving here and there and in the end maybe it will come back and haunt me again. LOL

[slide86]

there are heaps of ways an engine can shit itself/

what was the compression reading after the comp test.

you wont need to go forged, thats probably overkill for your application. unless you want to have a screamer, then it wont be as streetable as you would probably like.

just use factory items, cranks rods and pistons, rings. it depends what the damage is

[number_33]

right now, i know i planning for to go track when time is permited, so why not build a proper engien then just a normal factory, if rebuild a stock engine myself i just get a new engine, so better to just move up one step to see where i can go. =)

[Jazz9]

hmm,

If you are putting forged pistons, then you need to rebore the block, allways buy the pistons AFTER pulling down the block.... you never know the full history of a motor - it may have been rebuilt once and allready have the first oversized pistons in it. This will require you to get 2nd oversize pistons.

Long story short ... pull down motor -- check the bores, rods, crank and then pick a power level --- then we can tell you what you need.

When building a good NA block the main thing is the COMPRESSION RATIO --- what are the toda item? wisco do a 10.5-1 compression ratio based on stock HG.

I have heard good things about spool rods - I am about to put a set in a very very very very angry NA 4age!

Glen

[number_33]

hmm, thanks for the advice

right now, my car engine is a stocko, nothing has been done to it, so i assume everything will be base on factory.

As for the toda items i when to the website and get the info, and post here so you guys can help out, cause i really do not know much that is why i am trying to learn more from the feedback.

HIGH COMPRESSION FORGED PISTON KIT (ø82.00mm ø20mm pin 1627cc CR with stock gasket 11.3 : 1 )
Shim kit (1.5-3.0mm) <- i think i need to make a choice, so i do not know the factory shim size and wat size should i get to see improvement

HIGH STOPPER METAL HEAD GASKET (thickness0.6mm bore size ø82.5mm)

i list above all the parts that has to do with the engine block, do i need to list out the cam, cam gears, rod and crank?

[Jazz9]

Assuming that the motor is stock, you still need to check what condition the bore is in... If it has large scores in them - mainly check the bore where there is no compression, it may have broken a ring and deeply scored the bore - then you need oversize pistons.

I would always recommend going 1 oversize in the pistons, in your case 82.5mm i believe - check this when the motor is apart. I would drop the block into a engine builder and ask what oversized pistons you need. Then buy the strongest rod/piston combo that your budget allows.

PM me your phone number if it isnt clear ---- dont buy anything until it is.

Glen

[Jazz9]

o yeah, 11.3-1 is a good compression ratio. Dont buy a thin head gasket with those pistons as it will make the compression ratio over 12!!!! buy a STOCK size decent head gasket. i think the stock size is 1.2mm

As for the shim kit - you wont know what size shims you need till you go to build the motor - best to let the engine builders select the size.

Glen

[number_33]

jazz9 thx alot for the feedback really, i will get the engine builder to find out the size for me.

one thing bothering me now, do i just get them to find out wat rods to use, cause i dun really see alot of ppl changing rods?

as for the cranks, balancing is the way?

[Jazz9]

yup, balance the crank --- not many people do this these days as jap parts seem pretty good. But if your engine builded does give this option, then YES!

As for rods, how much power are you going to push ? allways give a generous amount of overhead for bulletproofing.... It isn't really HP that will kill your NA 4age .... it is RPM. RPM you are going to turn your motor to? depends on cams..... so..... match your cams to your rods :P

I have a 4age with high lift 306deg cams ..... peak power should be about 8000 - 9000 rpm therefore a need good rods ... argo are good i've heard. Currently i am turning a stock 4agze block with wisco 10.5-1 pistons, ARP main studs and ARP rod bolts to 8300 rpm without issues..... but for how long? and for that reason im upgrading the rods. (im going to try spool rods :S with not ..... i have spare blocks if they dont live up to what people say! :D)

i got eagle rods in my 500hp 4g63t 4wd mitsubishi!!!

then there is the issue of rod weight !!!! ... omg rods!!!

Just buy some argo's if you want to rev lots and some spool rods if you want a OK system....

Glen

[Robo86]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jazz9 @ Nov 19 2007, 07:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=439196)</div>
yup, balance the crank --- not many people do this these days as jap parts seem pretty good. But if your engine builded does give this option, then YES!

As for rods, how much power are you going to push ? allways give a generous amount of overhead for bulletproofing.... It isn't really HP that will kill your NA 4age .... it is RPM. RPM you are going to turn your motor to? depends on cams..... so..... match your cams to your rods :P

I have a 4age with high lift 306deg cams ..... peak power should be about 8000 - 9000 rpm therefore a need good rods ... argo are good i've heard. Currently i am turning a stock 4agze block with wisco 10.5-1 pistons, ARP main studs and ARP rod bolts to 8300 rpm without issues..... but for how long? and for that reason im upgrading the rods. (im going to try spool rods :S with not ..... i have spare blocks if they dont live up to what people say! :D)

i got eagle rods in my 500hp 4g63t 4wd mitsubishi!!!

then there is the issue of rod weight !!!! ... omg rods!!!

Just buy some argo's if you want to rev lots and some spool rods if you want a OK system....

Glen[/b]

don't take offence to this, but eagle rods are pretty well the worst forged rod on the market. much much better than stock, but they are nothing to go by. go have a good read on honda (shudder) forums, you'd be suprised to hear how many failures there are

SPOOL rods are excellent. they have decent sized rod bolts too, unlike eagle and a couple of others

these aren't my words, they are words of others (engine builders) that i agree with

edit - this is TOXIN here

[Gunner]

eagle rods are shit, jazz19 u eva see CYCLON that 10sec cordia had eagle rods, then it had 8 holes in the block, i am serious, pulled the motor down myself. smmal power they will handle, get into decent power tho u will be sorry. spool rods seen them in 9 sec vl good quality parts, i think u will find that they are actually scat rods or based on them. and if u wanna spend the money CORELLO baby 2g a set made to order

[rthy]

either way the pistons are a no go because they are a 20mm pin and a bigport is 18mm

[86adz]

would most agree that bang for buck if block deck/bores look OK then machining head coupla thou, thinner metal head gasket, valve springs and bigger cams maybe 264 or 272 (without need for shim-unders) should have him seeing some good power figures. rather than spending big dollars on bottom end then running out of $ with stock head.. just my opinion anyway but yeh anyway mate check out the condition of ur block/head and really sit down and assess what u want and what ur budget is otherwise u might buy parts now and maybe regret it later.

[terryo]

i agree with others that the first step is to find out what is right/wrong with the current engine. if you are doing it yourself, then ask lots of questions if you are a 1st timer. if you are engaging a professional engine builder/machinist, then they will provide all the advice you need, however be aware that many shops wont assemble engines using parts supplied by others/owners as warranty becomes a nighmare issue.
I have fitted dozens of sets of eagle rods and never had a failure in some very serious power engines. rods rarely fail, it's the bolts. bolts fail cause they are under or overtightened. we do ours with a stretch gauge to make them perfect as per manufactuers instructions.
having said that, if $ is not a problem, and maga power/revs are wanted, then use Carillos or Pankyl (US$220 each). They both use the very best CARR SPS bolts (US $44 ea)
the lightest factory rod is the 20 valve and these are perfectly OK in any big journal street engine, provided you have the 20mm pin pistons. most companies can supply forgies in 18, 19 or 20mm pin sizes, in various comp ratios. you are wasting time thinking about pistons until the head is complete and the exact chamber volume is measured. after that you can work out the comp ratio and select pistons.
pm me if you want real-world advice or for parts look on www.roadandtrack.net.au.
good luck