blk top 20v vvti

[rich_86]

wat is the factory rev limit on these and would it be much work to get it to say 9500rpm and around 200hp cheers rich

[SNAP]

i dont think the factory rev limit is 9.5k thats huge. u would need a bit of work or some laughin gas to get 200hp i think stock would be about 120 hp 130 mayb.

[Wanabe_Garage]

stock 160hp
rev limit 7500rpm

there is a thread in motorsport section about this type of thing worth the read.

[Jonny Rochester]

I am guessing the computers rev limit on the AE111 is about 8000rpm but I don't know. Ask someone with a AE111 ECU to floor it.

Without the rev limiter, it will rev harder of course. It may even get to 9000. But I have heard alot of people say they distroy bearings or conrods fairly fast over 8500rpm.

To build a engine to rev to 9500rpm, you want aftermarked con-rods. Upgraded conrod bolts at the very least. Probably lightened forged pistons. And the whole bottom end has to be ballanced very well. Mostly a job for a race engine builder. But not too hard, its worth a try. Buy some very good digital scales, and get all the pistons and rods to weight the same by grinding small bits off. The crank has to be pollished, then balanced. Flywheel has be to ballanced while bolted to the crank.

Camshafts should have a duration of about 300 degrees, may need to experiment. Stiffer valve springs. Lobe centers around 100-105 degrees.

Simple on paper, but getting 200hp will cost a bit of money in the end. And 3S-GE starts to look better.

[rthy]

heres what I think it would take to get it to 9500 (stock is usually 8000)

aftermarket rods
aftermarket pistons
race prepared crank
long duration cams
checked oil pump
reduction drive on the water pump
aftermarket valves
aftermarket valve springs
aftermarket bearings
deburred block

and multiple other things...

[Gunner]

yup ur right again sam lol, as for the other things, they include valve spring retainers, more oil pressure, solid buckets, timing belt, and the balls to rev it that hard, oh and for the evry day person probly bout 15k to have it runnin in a car theres more byt meh, ull find out if ur keen

[rthy]

ah yes spring retainers, forgot about that! dunno about needing solid buckets though, i cant see a problem with the standard shim under bucket at high revs. High quality timing belt is a good idea and yeah there might be a bit involved in the oiling side of things, I just said the oil pump looked at because I dont know.

If all this didnt suck enough the crank will probably need an hour meter run with it and then regually pulled out and crack tested. From what I hear 9000 RPM is much easier on the engine and the standard crank can handle ok, I guess I am going to find out!

[Gunner]

yeah from what ive seen they can get close to 9000 with some careful tuning, tho i have seen a gze crank go to 10500, with a simple balance, with the help of a to4 tho. ill find out what happens next year, just gotta figure out whether to boost or not to boost lol. as for the buckets you'd get away with, but dont they make a mess when they fail. id prefer standard just for the extra meat therefore strangth you get

[biggo]

mine - 8500rpm

122rwhp @8000

its an auto ecu but.

[rthy]

once you go over a cerain revs then the issue of fatigue comes in. Thats why the group A guys even with thir cro-mo cranks can only use them for so long.

[rich_86]

sam wat u think is the highest rpm you would want to run with forged and balanced internals...next project...

[rthy]

I am not expert but get some spool rods and then a blanace and I would think 9000 rpm would be yours, thats my plan

[rthy]

oh also theres no way you can run VVT

[Gunner]

nope no more vvti, but its actuallt not that hard to even get to 10000rpm, u just have to use good parts and not skimp out

[Anthony]

Stock rev cut on a blacktop is 8400.

If yours is cutting at 7500 (ppl threw that figure around) then you probably have 2 sensor systems disconnected. Actually connect a check engine light and when you're clever enough to make it not illuminate whilst driving (no mean feat on a blacktop - even an unplugged isc will log a code) then it will rev to 8400.

As for beyond that. Every 200 rpm will cost twice as much as the last 200 rpm to achieve. The first 200 rpm over 8400 costs $100. Happy spending :)

EDIT: that formula is for engine work. Obviously you've already installed engine management in the first place.

[Wanabe_Garage]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Anthony @ Dec 19 2007, 10:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=455181)</div>
Stock rev cut on a blacktop is 8400.

If yours is cutting at 7500 (ppl threw that figure around) then you probably have 2 sensor systems disconnected. Actually connect a check engine light and when you're clever enough to make it not illuminate whilst driving (no mean feat on a blacktop - even an unplugged isc will log a code) then it will rev to 8400.

As for beyond that. Every 200 rpm will cost twice as much as the last 200 rpm to achieve. The first 200 rpm over 8400 costs $100. Happy spending :)

EDIT: that formula is for engine work. Obviously you've already installed engine management in the first place.[/b]


Oh wow! really?

Im going to try this now! :greenbounce:

[lo_rolla]

I want a 5 figure rev limit from my motor when I'm done, it'll be silvertop block and crank and big port head.
Do-able? I sure hope so, I don't care if peak power is like 9000, I just wanna be able to rev over 10 to show my workmanship.

[Gunner]

its doable just cost money and time.

as for engine code lights, do the conversion properly, or pay the money to have it done properly and u wont have an issue

[rthy]

lo_rolla, you will need a group A crank, simple as that. Hope you have $20,000 for all the bits you need

[Gilly]

i want to know Ants $100 mod to get the extra 200 RPM :)

seriously

[lo_rolla]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sam_Q @ Dec 21 2007, 12:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=456006)</div>
lo_rolla, you will need a group A crank, simple as that. Hope you have $20,000 for all the bits you need[/b]
How much will the crank cost? Cos every thing I get is cost price and free labour... Cept the head work, but that'll still be cheaper than normal.
I don't have all the money straight up, but I got the best machines you can get for machining and know lots of very very capaable engine builders who will be helping me along the way...

Will I also need bigger than 304 cams... and what lift would YOU use?

[rthy]

theres a place in the US that sells them for $8000 before postage

Gilly: I cant find that article that shows how to do that mod, i will keep looking

[rthy]

I found a link to the old post but it was delted, anyway heres the original pic:

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/149944.jpg

and the 20v wiring diagram:

http://www.club4ag.com/faq%20and%20tech_pa...0V%20Silver.htm (http://www.club4ag.com/faq%20and%20tech_pages/ECU%20Japan%204age%2020V%20Silver.htm)

Anthony whats the second thing you need?

[Anthony]

lol, I think Gilly was referring to going to 8600 for $100. If you follow the guidelines and you have aftermarket ecu, save the $100 - put it with the $200 you need for 8800 and buy springs and retainers. :) The put 9000's 400 bucks with 9200's 800 and you have your rods fitted and maybe pistons if you're grifty ;), after that the exponential nature of the problem starts to set in.

As for getting factory management to 8400 in the first place. Just check engine codes - no codes = 8400 rpm. If your blacktop only revs to 7500-7700 then it either has codes present or a drastic problem in a non self diagnosing system (inadequate fuel flow, terrible leads or plugs, partially blocked injector etc etc).

BTWI just made speed sensor mod pictures for the last time ever :) I dont know how many times ive photographed the back of a cluster and opened ms paint :)

http://www.kaizengarage.com/techdocs/speedoreeddiagram.JPG

http://www.kaizengarage.com/techdocs/speedopinadd.JPG

[rthy]

whats wrong with thew factory retainers? also do you mind if I use your picture for a FAQ article if I write one?

[Gunner]

whats wrong with factory retainers sam, mate they pull through above 9000rpm and once u upgrade valve springs they pull through

[rthy]

oh yeah, I didnt know that

[rich_86]

so anti cross breading aside im thinking all this money for not much power....im spending more on suspension, bracing and braking wat would be the engine of choice for daily and few touge runs but majority daily...bout 5 to 6k to spend on engine and want something that should move better then 16v

blk 20v....
beams 3s....
s14 sr20det.....


sr is looking quite good as already turbo no need for converting only prob im thinking is the diff (weight) and maybe lil too much power for touge runs... wat ppls think all input is good am after pros and cons on all above or other engine suggestions am NOT INTERESTED in anti cross breading bullshit not intersted in reading that stuff so plz don write it here

[roadsailing]

sam you can use my photo too if you like (matchstick one)

as for the rest of the stuff here i must say i'm losing interest in 4AGE builds to make an engine fast and cranky for no real reason.

to the thread starter, what class do you race in? how much power do you need? etc?

[Gilly]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rich_86 @ Dec 22 2007, 10:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=456719)</div>
so anti cross breading aside im thinking all this money for not much power....im spending more on suspension, bracing and braking wat would be the engine of choice for daily and few touge runs but majority daily...bout 5 to 6k to spend on engine and want something that should move better then 16v

blk 20v....
beams 3s....
s14 sr20det.....


sr is looking quite good as already turbo no need for converting only prob im thinking is the diff (weight) and maybe lil too much power for touge runs... wat ppls think all input is good am after pros and cons on all above or other engine suggestions am NOT INTERESTED in anti cross breading bullshit not intersted in reading that stuff so plz don write it here[/b]

a lot of expensive conversions there

considered SR20DE?? same power/torque as a ZE.

cheaper than those you posted, unless you really want the wow factor of running an uncommon conversion

[rich_86]

road sailing...might do a few track days but mainly hill runs and daily driving my other 86 will be getting the motor out of this 86 wen the time comes i dont have a power goal jus want somethin that will move if i want it to and wil be comfortable to drive....highly tuned 20v might not be too good for daily driving....if i go the sr20det path the most it will get will be a front mount, exhaust and decent intake maybe a slight boost increase that would be all...

gilly....yea there is a bit of expense in the conversions i use to work for a importer in northgate so i could pick up a s14 sr20 with box and loom for bout the 3 to 3.5k mark....as for the sr20de...if i get bored of the power output then its a whole lot of effort to make it better...unlike the det it will be much cheaper if i want to go further with it but main issue is reliability so ill keep it mild which is plently for an 86

any other thoughts and has anyone on the forums got a sr20det in their 86????

[Wanabe_Garage]

refering back to the diagrams...

which wire is the warning light in the cluster?

[Anthony]

Are you talking about my pics? If so its in the pther plug so its not pictured. If youre talking about an aussie cluster - it doesnt have one. Just mount an orange indicator or led somewhere in your trim near cluster. Or buy a jdm cluster off me :)

EDIT : If you're talking about the club4ag diagram - it's on page 2 top right called "Instrument cluster check engine lamp" (pin W on the ECU)

[Wanabe_Garage]

ahhh... thanks heaps anthony!

just wired up your mod talked about in this thread... ill give it a drive a little whjile later for some xmas shopping
hopefully i can reach the factory rev limit

[rthy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RoadSailing @ Dec 23 2007, 12:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=456745)</div>
sam you can use my photo too if you like (matchstick one)

as for the rest of the stuff here i must say i'm losing interest in 4AGE builds to make an engine fast and cranky for no real reason.

to the thread starter, what class do you race in? how much power do you need? etc?[/b]

thanks, I would of given you credit initually had the original forum thread not gone missing and I remembered who I got that pic off