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45KIDS
27th December 2008, 02:30 PM
Im thinking about getting into hillclimbs with my ke70 and was just wondering what the best beginner setup was? And what other people are running?

My budget with suspension is between 0-3000 (hopefully a lot less lol)

Brodie.

Konakid
27th December 2008, 02:46 PM
6 and 4.5kg springs, shocks, ae86 coilover struts, p/s arms, corona lca's, panhard rod, new tie rod ends, ball joints, castor rod bushes. front and rear swaybars if you want to spend more.

seek
27th December 2008, 03:13 PM
+ a decent set of brake pads.

letsgohunting
27th December 2008, 04:37 PM
My advice is to go soft with spring rates - I'd be looking around 5.5kg front and 4kg rear. Use quality dampers - at least KYB AGX but trd shorts or HTS if possible. Use the biggest adjustable swaybars allround. Get all your suspension bushes replaced with poly ones. Run 14 or 15 inch rims with good stretched tyres (stretched because it makes the grip threshold more predictable).

Flush your brake fluid and replace with some castrol super response dot 4 (value) /Motul RBF600 (outright performance) or similar fluid. Replace your rotors if worn, and invest in some good quality pads - my current favorite is QFM a1rm pads which are unbeatable in value for money and comparable (if not better) with the better EBC and bendex racing pads.

Invest in an lsd, or go open diff. Don't go locker as it adversely affects the handling of the car. Don't use sigma control arms, use corona ones as the sigmas make too much negative camber which destroys straight line braking performance, especially when the road is slightly wet.

ThatsHowWeRoll
29th December 2008, 04:38 PM
^^thats a good start. The roads and tracks in aus are mostly terrible so you need a bit of give and adjustability to accomadate and not suffer bumpsteer...and as low as you can go isnt always better..

Be careful about stretching the tyre too much because it will stiffen the sidewall and make reduce overall grip.

An lsd will do a world of good! a decent kaaz or trd will knock at least a second or two depending on the track....exit speed is improved dramatically and and will be a lot better going uphill.

letsgohunting
29th December 2008, 05:31 PM
^^thats a good start. The roads and tracks in aus are mostly terrible so you need a bit of give and adjustability to accomadate and not suffer bumpsteer...and as low as you can go isnt always better..

Be careful about stretching the tyre too much because it will stiffen the sidewall and make reduce overall grip.

An lsd will do a world of good! a decent kaaz or trd will knock at least a second or two depending on the track....exit speed is improved dramatically and and will be a lot better going uphill.

My recommendation on the stretched tyres is due to my experience that it makes the transition from gripping to losing grip a lot smoother. When not stretched, the sidewall flexes more and allow a little more grip in the tread, but when it lets go it lets go harder.

I find it much more predictable.

Delazy
29th December 2008, 06:00 PM
6 and 4.5kg springs, shocks, ae86 coilover struts, p/s arms, corona lca's, panhard rod, new tie rod ends, ball joints, castor rod bushes. front and rear swaybars if you want to spend more.

exactly wat ive done in my ke70...

loves it...

another thing to not forget is to buy some decent rubber....re001's highly reccomended

doony
29th December 2008, 08:53 PM
3k will get you a great set up for hills, beginner wise.

45KIDS
30th December 2008, 05:50 PM
yeah wont be all at once... but thats how much overal i want to spend on it ;)

s14seriesII
20th January 2009, 06:20 PM
locked diffs are good for traction too

Rice86
20th January 2009, 08:25 PM
Gripping on hills?...

cheap setup
*chop springs
*OK working condition shocks
*80% Grip on tyres
*working brakes
*drive within ur limits

i use to do hill climbs on a weekly basis, Friday nights, and the same hill on saturday night xD

that was pritty much what i had on my ae86 since it was pretty much just pure stock, BUT my brakes were faulty and only worked properly 70% of the time while hill climbing, YES i would of died easy but its cuz i know my car and driving style so im still alive

anyways, im just saying, doesnt take much to have a good time, and thats all that matters ;)

08ftwyo
20th January 2009, 09:06 PM
Gripping on hills?...

cheap setup
*chop springs
*OK working condition shocks
*80% Grip on tyres
*working brakes
*drive within ur limits

i use to do hill climbs on a weekly basis, Friday nights, and the same hill on saturday night xD

that was pritty much what i had on my ae86 since it was pretty much just pure stock, BUT my brakes were faulty and only worked properly 70% of the time while hill climbing, YES i would of died easy but its cuz i know my car and driving style so im still alive

anyways, im just saying, doesnt take much to have a good time, and thats all that matters ;)

He is talking competition climbs I think you might find. A nice size wheel will do you good aswell. Get some 14 or 15 x 7's and they should grip nicely.

45KIDS
20th January 2009, 09:14 PM
yeah wanna compete ;)

still keen to hit up some local twistys. been to a few around my area just with cutties and fresh brake pads with brand new tires and goes alright but nowhere near what i wnt to get out of it. hopefully have 14x7's and 14x7.5's in feb :)

is there a certain size swaybar i should look at for front and back? should be ordering them tomoro

letsgohunting
20th January 2009, 10:59 PM
locked diffs are good for traction too

Don't go a locker they're fuckin gross. Makes pushes the car in corners and adversely affects handling characteristics.

s14seriesII
20th January 2009, 11:02 PM
Don't go a locker they're fuckin gross. Makes pushes the car in corners and adversely affects handling characteristics.

never had an issue always oversteery only downside is the nasty binding turning tight corners slowly eg: car parks

letsgohunting
21st January 2009, 12:44 AM
Go from a locker to an LSD with otherwise the same car setup and you'll see how badly they affect handling. Because in grip driving the outside rear wheel should be spinning quicker than the inside rear wheel in a corner. If it doesn't, 2 things happen. 1 - The outside wheel slips a certain amount - this causes the rear to get tailly hence the oversteer. However this will only usually happen in power over circumstances. 2 - The rear wheel doesn't slip enough and therefore the rear of the car "pushes" the front of the car to compensate, causing understeer and front end push. This was the main thing that I felt was different when I changed a locked diff to an LSD in a car with about 2500 dollars worth of suspension.

Xauterus
21st January 2009, 07:00 AM
Hello
I would only go with a soft brake pad, like a quality standard one. Remember your brakes will be dead cold when you start and the tracks are fairly short. You wont get a track pad warm enough to really grip. Buy a second set of tyres just to use at hillclimb if you can and then get a road legal semi slick to run, easiest performance mod to do. They will last ages if you only use them at hillclimbs. The suspension mods people have listed are good. Remember that a drift set up wont make you fast. It is all about precision and grip. The other things to look at are diff ratios. You dont have a huge amount of grunt so you need to use all the gears to get up hills. The top speed isnt actually that high at a hillclimb.
Hope that helps a little
Corey

s14seriesII
21st January 2009, 07:44 AM
Go from a locker to an LSD with otherwise the same car setup and you'll see how badly they affect handling. Because in grip driving the inside rear wheel should be spinning quicker than the outside rear wheel in a corner. If it doesn't, 2 things happen. 1 - The inside wheel slips a certain amount - this causes the rear to get tailly hence the oversteer. However this will only usually happen in power over circumstances. 2 - The rear wheel doesn't slip enough and therefore the rear of the car "pushes" the front of the car to compensate, causing understeer and front end push. This was the main thing that I felt was different when I changed a locked diff to an LSD in a car with about 2500 dollars worth of suspension.


the outside wheel turns faster not the inside and ive driven torsen lsd's, nismo lsd's, kaaz, trd, locked welded, and viscous lsd(if u can even call them an lsd) and open centres at the track.

the reason i dont get pushing coming into the corner is becaust the inside rear wheel has bugger all weight on it ( castor, steering wheel jack and g-force make this happen, and most race cars at the local track still use just locked diffs....

letsgohunting
21st January 2009, 09:03 AM
the outside wheel turns faster not the inside and ive driven torsen lsd's, nismo lsd's, kaaz, trd, locked welded, and viscous lsd(if u can even call them an lsd) and open centres at the track.

the reason i dont get pushing coming into the corner is becaust the inside rear wheel has bugger all weight on it ( castor, steering wheel jack and g-force make this happen, and most race cars at the local track still use just locked diffs....

Yeah sorry outside wheel spins faster - late at night when I typed that :girl:
It's okay for full track cars to do it because as you increase outright grip through tyres and suspension setup the whole handling change that a locker brings isn't as noticeable - especially on a track.

On the street in the hills, give me an lsd ANYDAY. Even on a track, still give me an lsd anyday.

fly ryder
24th January 2009, 11:08 AM
OMG you can actually get up hills in your 4k brodie??

all jokes aside should be good beginners car with any of the above listed suspension mods, maybe also consider a 4AGE or something along the line aswell

*urban_ninja*
24th January 2009, 12:30 PM
we do all realise that drift set up is not all that far off track set ups??? yes softer suspension as hills are never smooth and often the roads suck. you will really only need about 3 or so degrees neg camber and as the tyres go why stretch???? go low profile wheels a set of 17" would be perfect. thats my thoughts. i have tried this on my car with the 4age on Mt NEAO and it was like driving a gokart. :)

LittleRedSpirit
24th January 2009, 12:43 PM
As said above you don't need much money to compete, but you might end up needing cubic dollars to do well.

Have a look at my ride. Its well setup for grip. Feel free to ask about what each mod achieved and how its been tested. I just cant be arsed writing an essay about it when you might only want specific points.

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=569

Cheers.

45KIDS
24th January 2009, 12:51 PM
OMG you can actually get up hills in your 4k brodie??

all jokes aside should be good beginners car with any of the above listed suspension mods, maybe also consider a 4AGE or something along the line aswell

Do the 4k jokes ever end? Haha haven't heard from you for a while!

Yeah im gunna go 4age after suspension mod's :)

45KIDS
24th January 2009, 01:08 PM
I went and seen my mate at autozone today to order some swaybars but what would be the best size front and back?

LittleRedSpirit
24th January 2009, 02:30 PM
I think the front around 22-24mm.

If your after a rear one then the standard one with good bushings is fine for grip, or none at all if you can adapt to the feel of the car like that. It feels a touch unsafe but the rear is very sticky.

*urban_ninja*
24th January 2009, 03:31 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
F*CK that lol but is tested i can see how it would work. just some food for thought the car can not be to stiff as you want it to "dip" into courners thats what helps to get it in and out easy just dont think bigest thickest is best at all times and take into thought your driving styal. One other thing make it light remove sound deadening and replace glass with plexi glass and so on.

shichi~
24th January 2009, 04:28 PM
fuck the 4k off man!

Clinton
24th January 2009, 07:45 PM
4ks for life y0!

matt86
3rd March 2009, 11:22 PM
Hello
I would only go with a soft brake pad, like a quality standard one. Remember your brakes will be dead cold when you start and the tracks are fairly short. You wont get a track pad warm enough to really grip. Buy a second set of tyres just to use at hillclimb if you can and then get a road legal semi slick to run, easiest performance mod to do. They will last ages if you only use them at hillclimbs. The suspension mods people have listed are good. Remember that a drift set up wont make you fast. It is all about precision and grip. The other things to look at are diff ratios. You dont have a huge amount of grunt so you need to use all the gears to get up hills. The top speed isnt actually that high at a hillclimb.
Hope that helps a little
Corey



this is great advice i feel..

my hill climb events last little over 1min 50sec's.. if your using a race pad you will get no wher near enough heat and my times were down using race pads!!

Begginer set up.... im guessing you drive the car daily.. but if you are going to buy a lsd anyway.. i guess diff ratio is an option.. dont go crazy or you'll never want to drive on the highway again!!! top speed in my events is like 110.. good rubber and lsd you'l have more than enough grip.. adjusting the ratio will give you a big advantage

kaibeecee
4th March 2009, 12:13 AM
we do all realise that drift set up is not all that far off track set ups??? yes softer suspension as hills are never smooth and often the roads suck. you will really only need about 3 or so degrees neg camber and as the tyres go why stretch???? go low profile wheels a set of 17" would be perfect. thats my thoughts. i have tried this on my car with the 4age on Mt NEAO and it was like driving a gokart. :)


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
F*CK that lol but is tested i can see how it would work. just some food for thought the car can not be to stiff as you want it to "dip" into courners thats what helps to get it in and out easy just dont think bigest thickest is best at all times and take into thought your driving styal. One other thing make it light remove sound deadening and replace glass with plexi glass and so on.

going off this advice, i'd actually not take on board anything you wrote in either of those two posts

common 86 drift setup = too hard rear springs, dampers too hard, tire pressure too hard. not going to be the most controllable car around consecutive corners, is it. which is a contradictory statement to your second post. and 'dip' into corners? what?

do you mean that a bit of body roll to enhance tire grip or something. i hope you do.

people tend to confuse tire grip with mechanical grip, and set their cars up so the two fight, and effectively counter each other.

softer spring rates and stiffer swaybars does wonders as you're not relying totally on the tire, but assisting it to do its job at a safe rate

Beau
4th March 2009, 09:33 AM
Dont forget the most import thing. Cup or water!

ThatsHowWeRoll
4th March 2009, 11:23 AM
kaibeecee is a wise man....

Set-up in the hills is different to drift....getting you chassis to work the best it can with the rubber is your goal....

have a look at v8 supercars on the warm up laps and watch when they weave to heat the tyres....the amount of movement and roll will shock you.

*urban_ninja*
4th March 2009, 01:38 PM
going off this advice, i'd actually not take on board anything you wrote in either of those two posts

common 86 drift setup = too hard rear springs, dampers too hard, tire pressure too hard. not going to be the most controllable car around consecutive corners, is it. which is a contradictory statement to your second post. and 'dip' into corners? what?

do you mean that a bit of body roll to enhance tire grip or something. i hope you do.

people tend to confuse tire grip with mechanical grip, and set their cars up so the two fight, and effectively counter each other.

softer spring rates and stiffer swaybars does wonders as you're not relying totally on the tire, but assisting it to do its job at a safe rate



you are fail!!!!!!!!!!!!! first i said TRACK not drift track. aka sprints and so on i also said not to different as in there are differences in areas but the general set up stearing and so on is changed yes softer for the hills and harder for the sliding you are verry smart :peek:. 2nd yes dip as in to increas grip aka slight body roll at a controlled rate.

Robo86
4th March 2009, 02:04 PM
lol man go easy on who you call "fail" around here.. Pete is a very knowledgeable guy.

driftke70
4th March 2009, 06:58 PM
plus you cant have dip, and roll, cant really have dip in the first place,

i rekon a good street set up, would be;

6 and 4
stiff sway bars
good bushes all round
rona arms
agxs
a fair bit of castor, not too much, around +3.5
1mm toe out
a ride height thats not stupidly low, so you can get some travel
a 1.5 way
matched tyres all round

*urban_ninja*
4th March 2009, 09:01 PM
why so dip or roll what ever you want to call it is used by v8's, sprint cars and so on. just to clear up im not talking stupid amounts just enough that you can see it from outside.

Konakid
4th March 2009, 10:05 PM
dodge, dip, duck, roll and dodge

45KIDS
10th May 2009, 09:39 PM
went to a insane downhill today that me and a mate found. im liking my setup atm! cant wait to upgrade to better quality items :)

atm just running:

5 & 4.5kg springs
kyb excel-G shocks
rear 18mm swaybar
front strutbrace
panhard rod
nice hugging fixed back seat.

going to put some rona arms in and take it for another spin this week hopefully!
plus re001's :P

jay70
10th May 2009, 09:43 PM
flag creek road?

45KIDS
10th May 2009, 10:11 PM
^^ nah man , went to flagstone creek road first. its nuts aswell haha. found one out in the middle of no where. who ever built the road had a phobia of straight roads aye.

doony
10th May 2009, 10:22 PM
chop, lock and adrenalins

Konakid
10th May 2009, 11:06 PM
went to a insane downhill today that me and a mate found. im liking my setup atm! cant wait to upgrade to better quality items :)

atm just running:

5 & 4.5kg springs
kyb excel-G shocks
rear 18mm swaybar
front strutbrace
panhard rod
nice hugging fixed back seat.

going to put some rona arms in and take it for another spin this week hopefully!
plus re001's :P

Pretty much my first setup, coronas will make it much better, the camber really helps front end grip, pretty good street grip setup hey.

45KIDS
12th May 2009, 05:26 PM
Pretty much my first setup, coronas will make it much better, the camber really helps front end grip, pretty good street grip setup hey.

yeah im liking the setup atm. will be better with corona lca's! i want to get some better shocks real soon tho..

stouty
22nd May 2009, 10:49 AM
Im looking at 7kg front coilover with kyb agx shocks and 5kg GAZ rear coilover in a T-18.
I have 24mm front swaybar and 18mm rear. Will be doing mainly hillclimb (looking at entering NSW hillclimb champs next yr) and supersprints. After looking at this thread im re thinking and think ill go with 6 and 4.5 i need some advice as to wiether people think the 7 and 5 combo will be to stiff? Thanks

Konakid
22nd May 2009, 01:10 PM
7 and 5 would be fine

letsgohunting
22nd May 2009, 01:35 PM
7 and 5 will be fine as long as you run decent tyres. For hillclimbs you'd be best running slightly softer but it's not crucial.

stouty
22nd May 2009, 03:02 PM
Sweet cheers for info guys 7 and 5 it is.

cracker
24th May 2009, 03:51 PM
i run 7 front and 5.5 rear i find its a bit over steery have dropped back to a 5kg rear and fine it almost perfect 18mm and 24mm swaybars 8 way shocks at rear and non adj at front, it sits and grips well

tyres are the only contact point fro you and the road so dont skimp out and but shitty rubbers

stouty
26th May 2009, 01:19 PM
Sweet sounds like its the way to go then. Yeh at the moment i have potenza
GIII's on front and yokohama C-Drives on rear 185/60/14. Looking at getting some semi slicks but dont really no what to get at the moment.
Can you run stretch on semi slicks??? i dont think ive ever seen it done. I have 7.5 on front and 8 rear so i think ill go with 205's

Konakid
26th May 2009, 02:06 PM
stretch is fine with semi's, if its just a street car then go some RE001's all round in 185/60, cant really go wrong for the price.

stouty
26th May 2009, 04:40 PM
No its not a street car just use it for hillclimbs and supersprints.

I didnt see why stretch with semi's would be a problem just never seen it done so thought there was something i had missed.

Any suggestions for semis was looking at A048???

Course_Out
26th May 2009, 05:55 PM
I work with a guy who has run a Sprinter in hillclimbs, etc for a logn time - he reckon the Toyo r888's wear much better than a048's, and give consistent grip all the way thru there life cycle, while the Advans seem to "go off" quicker

I think the Toyo's may also be cheaper if memory serves...

NIZLAH
26th May 2009, 05:59 PM
I'm picking up a pair of Federal RSR semi's for the fronts on the w.e, coz they are cheap and I need tyres.. wont be testing them for a month or 2 or 3 yet though...

stouty
27th May 2009, 01:38 PM
I work with a guy who has run a Sprinter in hillclimbs, etc for a logn time - he reckon the Toyo r888's wear much better than a048's, and give consistent grip all the way thru there life cycle, while the Advans seem to "go off" quicker

I think the Toyo's may also be cheaper if memory serves...

I have heard this before i will look into it further get a price on both and let everyone know.

Cheers