7A-FE into a KE70

[ke70_sa]

just wondering if putting a 7A-FE into a ke70 was a do-able task.

i know its a Fwd motor, but I'm guessing that just involves turning it North-South instead of East-West.

ALSO, what drivetrain would i need to link it all up to?

i was thinkin a hilux diff would deal with the back-end, but again..would this all be possible?

looking for answers as i've looked into the motor and they are solid as & cheap.

cheers!

[riojin]

itll be easier to make a 7age and then make it rwd. there are rwd intake and exhaust manifolds readily available. if you use the fe head youll have to get some custom stuff.

you would use the 4age rwd water setup

[rthy]

you need to convert the cooling system just as my 20v shows for the head part anyway. You also need a DLI igniton for the dizzy that you need to take off.

[gumbie]

Pretty much all the same work for a 20v is required. Just put a GE head on it. Will make the job a lot easier and probably cheaper too.

[Driftspec]

7AGE is the best option - 7AFE probably isn't quite good enough (designed for economy, not much else), and moving to 4AGE head gives you plenty of upgrade options. That and the conversion is easier too, as mentioned :)

Felix owns a KE70 with a 7AGE in it, to be found here (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/board/index.php?showtopic=16253). Goes with a T50 box, not sure on what work is needed to get it to match up. Being an A-series motor it should bolt up fairly well - can anyone confirm this?

[rthy]

well technically speaking the 7afe has theoreticly more upgrade options than a 4age, but thats seriously hard work and it gets complex, its in my worklog.

[ke70_sa]

damn...alright.
well its not like ive got the motor or anything yet.
cheers for the help.
where could u get a 7age? or who could help me do the work on this?

plus..i need to daily it. I'm looking to make the car sleeper spec.

[Driftspec]

I forgot you were doing that stuff Sam, I really should read up about your work sometime soon :) I do know of some of the options for a 7AFE, but for a lot of people I guess the 7AGE conversion makes sense economically and parts wise.

I'm pretty sure Sam's logs have most of the info you need ke70_sa, there is a little bit of work to do the conversion but it is well worth it. Very easy to turn it into daily/sleeper spec, just with a nice breathing exhaust (that isn't too loud), decent ride height, nice paint and nothing too outrageous.

[rthy]

I recomend putting in a basic 4age engine and then at any point later on you can convert the engine to a 7A bottom end. Its a pretty easy option seeing how uncomplicated and simple to work on our cars are.

[E7]

i think it would be fair easy, the 7AFE makes around or more the power of a 4age anyways so samQ is righty again
lol

so yea, a 7age consists of a 4a bottom end and 7a head isnt it?

[rthy]

sopposedly a 7age makes a little more power but significantly more low down torque. I never have experienced it though.

It consists of a 7a bottom end and a 4age head. So basicly making a 1.8L 4age.

I am the only weirdo in these forums to plan to use a 4age bottom end and a 7afe head.

[Driftspec]

I wouldn't have said weirdo :D

The reason that I am very interested in the 7aGE is the torque bonus you get moving to a higher cap motor. My parents have a 7A-FE in their AE112 Corolla, and there is a but load of torque down low. Its possible to cruise in 5th gear all the way down to 40km/h with a decent load, and still accelerate back to 60kmh or 80kmh in a good amount of time. My understanding of moving to a 4AGE head is that, because of the wider valve angle in relation to the to the FE head, more power and efficiency is possible.

Of course, by that argument, what you are doing Sam holds true in a different way - the FE head (again, from my understanding) is designed to be a more economical and efficient solution (not as black and white as that, but certainly the idea) so the possibilities of the motor with that head look good. But I'lls till have to read your logs and see what you have gotten up to :)

[rthy]

yeah nothings simple in this topic. Everyone used to think that wider cam angles meant more power, times change.

I do wonder how a 7afe and one with a 4age head both stock would work against each other. I wouldn't have any doubts that it would improve power eveywhere considering how shocking the 7a cam timing is (no overlap!!!). I hope I get a change to go for a ride in someones car with one sometime.

The only reason I never went for a 7a bottom end is because I perosnally don't like low end power over just reving the crap out of it and making use of torque and power in the uper end of the rev range.

[rthy]

hey another thing I forgot to mention, if you do the head swap what pistons do you use? the 4age or the 7a pistons? if the 4age pistons are used like I suspect then there would be a big increase in the compression ratio.

[ke70_sa]

well thanks for the help guys.
now who would have a 4age to put in my car? hahaha
plus Sam_Q..i need help on the whole "working on the car"
i need to learn so much about how to do all that shit, i aint what they say "mechanically minded"...
yet.
i wana be thou

cheers

[ke70dave]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ke70_sa @ Apr 7 2008, 11:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=514401)</div>
well thanks for the help guys.
now who would have a 4age to put in my car? hahaha
plus Sam_Q..i need help on the whole "working on the car"
i need to learn so much about how to do all that shit, i aint what they say "mechanically minded"...
yet.
i wana be thou

cheers[/b]

well only way your gonna get mechanically minded is by starting to pull stuff apart, and spending ages trying to figure out how the crap to get it back together:P

nothing can beat hands on experience

as for the 7afe

i have always wondered about this too, as the engine itself would be pretty cheap compared to 4age. get one from some guy on twincam.org who has put a 4age in their CSI corolla.

and if your handy with a welder/have mates who are, get the water system sorted etc.

only thing I'm not sure about is this "DLI convertor" that is used on the 20V too, dunno what the pricing is on these, so i guess if its a reasonable price, then its prolly worth it.

but if you have to pay for to much stuff, might just be easier to put the cash towards a 4age....

[rthy]

Daves right, the best way to learn is to get some reasonable tools and give it a bit of a go. However I stongly recommend you get the help of a mechanically minded person to show you the ropes if possible.

[ke70_sa]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sam_Q @ Apr 7 2008, 12:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=514423)</div>
Daves right, the best way to learn is to get some reasonable tools and give it a bit of a go. However I stongly recommend you get the help of a mechanically minded person to show you the ropes if possible.[/b]

yeah, thats the plan! i don't intend on welding ANYTHING unless i know what I'm welding haha. i'd probably weld my sump plug shut or some stupid shit haha.
cheers for all the help & i will start lookin at a 4age.
i need a battery first though...and a wheel bearing in the rear isnt sounding too healthy either.
cheers!

[starni_boy]

I am currently building a 7age 20v Silvertop.

you will need:
- 7afe engine (if you choose to keep the head)
- 4AC engine brackets to bolt to the engine
- AE86 engine crossmember
- t50 gearbox
- T series rear end
- tailshaft to suit
- RWD water setup.

It all bolts up

[rthy]

starni: what pistons are you going to use?

ke70: something I should of said first is this; I don't know what state your car is in, but whatever you do make sure you do modifications in this order: maintenance items, suspension/brakes, and then engine

[starni_boy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sam_Q @ Apr 8 2008, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=515141)</div>
starni: what pistons are you going to use?[/b]

I am planning to use OEM 20v pistons while I learn about the car, and until I can afford to do a proper rebuild on the engine (cams, adj. cam gears, proper extractors, pistons etc etc).

I don't know when or if the rebuild will happen because my pockets are burnt out at the moment.

[rthy]

what about the change in the compression? I just worked out it will take it from 10.5:1 to 11.54:1, so make sure you tune it properly ok?

[starni_boy]

Sam,

Is that Compression Ratio with a standard head gasket, or a TRD 0.8mm Gasket? I was planning on only running a top compression ratio of 11.5:1 as i don't really want a huge ratio from standard 20v silvertop. Standard Ratio from a silvertop 20v was 11:1 from factory, as stated in Drift Battle, The Issue with the info on the 4AGE's.

Was going to invest in some ARP head studs also, just for that added piece of mind to account for the ratio.

Clint

[rthy]

thats with the standard gasket yes, the increased displacement causes a significant increase in the comp.

If the drift bible says the silvertop is 11:1 then its bullshit, its 10.5: and the blacktop is 11:1.

To fit APM studs you need to buy two sets of 16V studs and only half of each, put asside $450 for that. There are some seriously boosted engines running standard bolts though.

[ke70_sa]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sam_Q @ Apr 8 2008, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=515141)</div>
starni: what pistons are you going to use?

ke70: something I should of said first is this; I don't know what state your car is in, but whatever you do make sure you do modifications in this order: maintenance items, suspension/brakes, and then engine[/b]

yeah i understand i gotta do sus. shit first, thats the plan. this topic was started as a 1/2 dream for if i put the time/MONEY into it.
what do you mean by maintenance items though? i know i sound retarded but any help from u guys on making my car reliable and in good running order is more important to me than just pumping out the kilowatts.
cheers

[machg]

Possibly the biggest hassle you would have with a 7afe swap as opposed to a 4/7age swap is the distributor location on a 7afe will not give clearance to the firewall for rwd use with a standard sort of positioning in the engine bay.

[rthy]

Dreams are good, finding out the information in advance to see whats needed for that dream is even better

hmm well I would look to see that your bushes are all changed, no major leaks in anything, that sorta basic crap.

I am sure you already have that under control.