PDA

View Full Version : Tracing the steering wheel!



Robo86
5th May 2009, 12:07 PM
Ok guys, there is a thread on NS about this so i thought why not start the discussion here, please don't turn this into a shit fight thread. What are your thoughts on tracing the wheel and do you do it? (example video's of your technique) heres a quote from Laurence (on Nissan-Silvia) that wrapped it all up pretty well in one post. Ken (ae86hachiroku) has some good points too that im sure he will add!



If you are holding the steering wheel, you have input, that is the whole point and our hands should never be flailing about.

As far as following the motion of the steering wheel goes it is a lot like pushing the brake pedal smoothly. You don't just jam it on 100% you smoothly and quickly apply it because that gives the shocks and springs time to load up.

Think of the action of a steering wheel, if it is spinning and you suddenly stop it, it is like slamming on a "steering rack brake" and loads up the front tyres with a nice big transient.

When you are following the wheel you almost always grab it following the motion of the wheel, not against it. Then you firmly load up the countersteer or initiation or whatever you are doing.

If we had WRC steering racks, reflexes like Schumacher and arms like gorillas we could hold the steering wheel at "10 to 2" or "quarter to 3" while drifting but we have shitbox old Nissans so we have to compensate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avN4H-vpveU

This video is basically my benchmark for how I would like to learn to steer. There are times when he releases the steering wheel but he always starts and stops the steering wheel movement and I would be very surprised if there is not at least some input in 99% of his movements. You can also she him make corrections that would have taken much longer grabbing the wheel with stationary hands.

Anyway, my theory on the whole deal, take it or leave it. Most of my ideas are stolen from the combination of a book called Twist of the Wrist II by Keith Code and my own experience so are as only as valid as any other opinion really.



- Tracing the steering wheel helps me correct my mistakes
- Steering with your palms or spaghetti arms is not quite the same thing
- There should be some steering input
- Other people have good balance and timing and don't need it (like Orido)
- The reason it works is not clear
- It is not that easy to do
- Not many people do it and they win


Here is another quote this time from Alexi.



Watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj64Mrnp7sE

RUN FREE Koichi Yamashita demonstrating the right and wrong way to trace.

This month's Drift Tengoku has a complete guide on steering wheel technique as well, and it's pretty easy to understand, even if you can't read Japanese.


http://vimeo.com/4193648

Here is a video of mine to get the ball rolling, my technique is not that great (i hardly ever do it) but i think its to do with how i have learnt and how much castor i run, ill be trying it as much as i can this friday (at QR) and will hopefully return with some new footage.

cheers guys, let the discussion begin!

p.s GRRR at this forum not allowing bedding of the movies

obey wan boenny
5th May 2009, 04:41 PM
Yeah some good advice and tips :) I learnt without doing it and never felt the need in my old car. My ke doesn't have much castor so i have to flick the wheel to get it to counter steer faster.
Last practice in ke i tried to do it as much as possible, mainly on snakies though, definitely feel the difference :) I'll try to practice it more and hopefully improve my driving technique.

Heres some incar footage from a few pracs ago, of me limiter bashing behind kalbys ca18det ke :) sloppy driving really but still...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASNFFbn8QHY

ae86hachiroku
5th May 2009, 04:46 PM
It should probably be a sticky as there isn't much more to add, that sums it up enough. Anything else from NS was jibber jabber from non believers, so all those points above are the ownage lines pretty much.

My videos which you've probably seen anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKH7e8cPgFM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFkcj_ExSlA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umfV7iYexpQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGEbbahmAbM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZr4qD0J-SU

I started tracing from day one, can't think of any other way of doing it. Very reliable.

Robo, although you don't trace in that video, it seems you have a decent amount of control anyway, as your hands aren't completely letting go of the wheel, and merely just sliding through it, but yeah, with some tracing the transitions would be a lot more aggressive instead of progressive.

marvis
5th May 2009, 05:06 PM
I Think I do it like robo from memory. Maybe a bit more hold of the wheel. I can't find any videos.

marvis.

bigm
5th May 2009, 08:01 PM
Interesting, definatly something to think about when i finnaly get into the track one day. hopefully not to far away

ae71neo
5th May 2009, 08:40 PM
I dont think i trace as much as that dude in the video that Alexi posted does, but as you can see in my vid, the little bit of incar i have you can see, i do trace. Well whatever you call it thats my technique. It works for me.

http://www.vimeo.com/4092816

I've got more incar stuff i will put up one day.

Ae86sam
6th May 2009, 12:18 PM
I saw a video a little while ago from the rear quarter of my car @ archi that looks partially at the steering wheel.. Apparently i do very little input in the wheel using more the throttle/brakes to transition and only really turn the wheel for the inital entry.. The same applies for Parklands and Tamworth (small tracks)

With Qr i have little input as well (just a little less than rob really) in an underpowered car and alot less in a powerfulcar where the throttle (and brakes) can be used for steering more easily..

ps.. Love the look on your face robo lol... :)

Intense
12th May 2009, 03:28 AM
I'm more interested in how you guys deal with the lack of power steering.

I've got 4 degrees pos castor, -1.5 degrees camber and 195's on the front. And a 350mm personal wheel and it's still pretty hard to turn the wheel, almost always a 2 handed affair which makes tracing much more difficult, even the initial flick takes a fair bit of effort. I've got a feeling that I just have a crap seating position atm so a dished wheel shoudl fix that

ae86hachiroku
12th May 2009, 11:16 AM
Maybe you need to hit the gym... ahaha

blair
12th May 2009, 12:09 PM
ive got a heap of castor aswell ( my bumper is slowly getting shaved down by the tyre lol)

i find that once the car is unsettled the steering is wayyy easier!

anyway on topic: i dont trace at all.
i think im still mid-way between the "oh shit, im sideways now i have to grab the wheel before i spin" stage
and the actually figureing out some things stage lol

so i will comment again after more trackwork :)

stefan
13th May 2009, 09:40 AM
i tend to agree with sam on this, i dont think i realy trace at all, more throttle and brake but again thats only on the smaller tracks, i just throw the steering at the start and leave the rest up to the car lol seems to work fine for me and my average driving.

marvis
13th May 2009, 11:44 AM
I find the best way is one arm out the window and then having your wrist sitting on the wheel, or maybe having one hand on the shifter at all times and having one hand on the middle of the steering wheel.. This is really good for looking cool while drifting.

marvis.

driftke70
13th May 2009, 05:44 PM
i trace a fair bit, just learn behavior of what works and what doesn't

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2tO7eYkZZ0&feature=channel_page

just thought id mention that the glove was cause i had second degree burns all over my hand

kaibeecee
14th May 2009, 10:05 AM
what laurence posted is a good indication, and is pretty relevant to driving nissans, but with driving an 86, i find loading up and unsettling the car a bit with a hard flick to help slide when it starts to grip up a bit is not so bad.

that said, the dori-ten that alexi talks about explains the technique of holding wheel placement with the upper hand and tracing with the lower. i tend to trace instinctively but find the wheel sliding at a rapid pace on some corners when i want more lock quickly. robo demonstrates a good style, the wheel slips in his palms, but its not to the point where his hands are off it completely. still uses that outer hand to direct the car though. that way kind of gives a bit more awareness with the cars direction a bit more than the old 'flick, spray and prey' method....

its all a learning curve like everything else

Anthony
14th May 2009, 10:30 AM
It has a lot to do with car choice and car setup. Sometimes you need to feed a little more lock in after a transtition. (quite often about a quarter turn for me at archy for instance, i notice a lot of pics there with my hand at 12 oclock after doing this). nissans, I have found usually need a lot more lock to be manually fed in after a transition. I would guess in that instance, tracing becomes a lot more important (and second nature).

sundee
19th May 2009, 02:58 PM
if tracing is what u call it then thats what i like..

here is a vid that i constantly studdy because his wheel work is smooth, controlled and very precise! i love watching this clip over and over.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cje8jbKdQ5Q

enjoy! :)

Robo86
19th May 2009, 05:10 PM
yer really nice smooth style there

shichi~
5th June 2009, 05:43 PM
shit i really never notice how i do it ill get an in car came for my next track day will post 4 sure :D


Edit : robo fkn nice steerin man !

Robo86
5th June 2009, 06:30 PM
thanks mate

new vid from wednesday!! bit of tracing in it, dunno though its not really my thing i guess its cause of my wheel alignment setup (castor)

http://www.vimeo.com/4978440

shichi~
5th June 2009, 07:44 PM
shit looks intense! love the track too :D

blair
11th January 2010, 10:13 PM
Will endevour to get vids next time it rains...

LATELY (in the 72)

Ive actually been finding myself defaulting to a lot of tracing due to

-open wheeler
-boat
-3rd gear
-wetness

i find it makes things alot more predictable and smooth :)

watched initial d for the "very first tiiiiiiiime" the other day...
think i might try the cup-o-water thing ha!