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Lurkin
21st December 2011, 09:32 PM
First off - I'm a kiwi that's recently hopped over the ditch. Hence the rules for registering cars/ upkeeping them in VIC are new to me.

Have had a bit of a browse over the VICRoads website, have a couple of questions to put out there:

RWC - Are these really only required when buying/ selling a car? or are they a constant thing to upkeep during ownership? (i.e. in NZ there are Warrants of Fitness required every 6 months for cars registered after X date)

Engineering/ Engine Swap/ Modification queries:

- From what I've read so far it appears that engineering is required for those engine swaps that are not for that model of vehicle. The reason why I am interested as I am keen on buying a ke70/ae71 and dropping a 4age into it. This is most likely going to be a smallport 4age, or potentially a 20v depending on availability/ ease of the swap (given I have no ability to weld at the moment)

- Is there a guide/ pdf that contains what is acceptable to modify before requiring engineering, other than engine swaps/ seat swaps? Again, most interested in suspension & brake upgrades, thinking just standard shocks maybe lowered springs lca/steering arm swaps (most likely xt130 etc). However, could be interested in adjustable suspension if engineering is not required for them? Similarly would be could be interested in brake upgrades to either a twin pot arrangement (toyota of some desciption) or a wilwood setup?

- What are the typical costs of registering/ maintaining a car in terms of statutory requirements? So far on the list is registration... what else should I be considering? Is third party insurance a statutory requirement here?

- whats the dealio with cages? again, engineering cert to be allowed on the street?

Any help would be appreciated, especially pointing me in the right direction to answer my own questions i.e. if I have missed something on the VICRoads site etc.

Oh and one other question:

Is ae71> ke70 in terms of parts to utilise to plonck a 4age in? From what I've read on this forum I have been given the impression that ae71 Cross member is better for the swap? I'll be keen for whatever option is likely to come with more appropriate parts for the swap straight off the bat as it will be cheaper/ require less effort etc. Furthermore is the quad headlight conversion straightforward on an ae71?

.ady
21st December 2011, 09:39 PM
RWC - only need it when registering a car that has no rego / transferring a registered car into your name / when cops have pulled you over and said its unroadworthy and handed you a defect

engine swap - thats the correct way, if you get an ae71 / ae86 you dont really need to get an engineers since its the same engine family and engine size is no larger, once its done just call vicroads and change engine numbers over the phone

suspension and brakes - not many garages will take much notice over their aslong as its done right no leaks and everything is roadworthy and works okay you will be fine

cages - will attract attention only get one if needed or only put in during track days

Lurkin
21st December 2011, 09:44 PM
hmm. Bearing in mind I'm not just interested in what the garages will not pick up, I'm interested in what is technically legal and what is not.

After all, if its insured for something that it is not, i.e. a stock ae71 - when it has modified brakes/ suspension/ engine swap... not exactly a good look.

Furthermore, whats a rough price range/ good places to be looking out for ae71's? Seems like some of the wreakers suggested in the self serve thread could be the go...

.ady
21st December 2011, 09:52 PM
insurance companies wont even look at stuff like that in a 30 year old car, from personal exp they look at how the accident happened who was at fault was there anything wrong with either car to point the issue towards

in the aspect your speaking of well more or less police can defect your car for anything they think is unroadworthy / hazardous to other drivers they can pin you for something as small as a pod filter, HID globes, 1 bald tyre you name it, the only way you will get away with mods is with a car that has been engineered with all mods that are current on the car and at that point you still wont get 100% immunity cops will still pull you over and do the same procedure as per usual

Lurkin
21st December 2011, 10:01 PM
errr. that sounds like boardline harassment rather than law enforcement..Would it be better to scrap the idea of having a modified car on the street/ build a track car separately? Its kinda the plan in the long run, just would be nice to have el cheapo beater to roll around in...

Jimmee1990
21st December 2011, 11:54 PM
Any illegal modification will void any insurance you have if you happen to have an accident whether it's your fault or not, i've had this happen to me before. Any possible loophole for the insurance company to get out paying and they will. There's plenty of legal mods you can do to make a fun street car, it's not going to be the quickest thing on the road by a long shot but you'll always have a smile on your face when you're driving. Just depends on what your goals are as to whether you build a street car or a track car.

rthy
22nd December 2011, 12:13 AM
http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Registration/PermitsModificationsAndDefects/Modifications/NotifyingVicRoadsOfChangesAndModifications.htm

Engineers certificate will only mean the car meets ADR standards (will not make the car rwc, guarantee saftey from cops/insurance).
All this doesn't matter until you have an accident or some paper work/defect needs doing.

The question is, do you want to put up with it now or when shit hits the fan?

Gear-head
22nd December 2011, 02:36 AM
insurance is going to be a pain as they don't cover it for much. So all the work doesn't count for anything swaps n mods if it get hit/stolen like third party cover my 86 for $2500 only and that's market value

And can anyone help me so If it wasn't my fault in a accident ( they hit me ) and there insurance finds out I got mods do I still get pay out?

claw
22nd December 2011, 06:56 AM
mod your car,avoid werribee, broadmeadows, northland, knox, dandenong cbd, chadstone and lilydale main street
dont slam it, dont run to much poke, youll daily anything

shift_rook
22nd December 2011, 10:47 AM
^claws got it

Water Boy
22nd December 2011, 12:04 PM
mod your car,avoid werribee, broadmeadows, northland, knox, dandenong cbd, chadstone and lilydale main street
dont slam it, dont run to much poke, youll daily anything

Princess Hwy and Chapel st on a Friday night!

claw
22nd December 2011, 06:10 PM
if you plan on going to either of those places i hope you get grounded and fucked with a baton!

sprinter666
27th December 2011, 03:34 PM
just my 2 sents aside from agreeing with claw, ive found toyotas dont garner much attention unless ur busted being an idiot, i feel more than comfortable driving my sprinter through lilydale never had a problem, just dont think that low is the sickest thing around and matched with offset will make u a legend, just means u got more to change when u get booked which is annoying. most ive ever had to change since keeping a decent ride height is tires.

Lurkin
27th December 2011, 08:32 PM
Seems like the thread has got a bit off topic - I'm interested in building something LEGAL, not something undetectably ILLEGAL.

Hence if its legal, the insurer has full disclosure = covered.

I'm not interested in building a car that can only be driven on certain streets, frankly the trains the same and cheaper!

I've read through the requirements for when a car must be engineered - seems pretty vague as its only dependent on if the engine swap is for an engine that is not an option for that vehicle?

So what about coil overs etc? Or is it that anything on the vehicle that is not an option from the manufacturer= requires an engineering cert?

also - how much is an engineering cert? is there a standard price/ starting point?

And - roughly whats the pricing on the various 4ages/ whats their availability like?

claw
27th December 2011, 08:50 PM
suspension mods can be insured withough engineers, everything else needs one, and that will cst you abut $1000 minimum

lovemy86
27th December 2011, 09:41 PM
claws a dumb fuck though, dont listen to him

claw
28th December 2011, 09:10 AM
fuck off slingsby!

sprinter666
28th December 2011, 10:05 AM
coilovers are fine aslong as their not worse than what you had, you probably dont need them anyway just get better springs and shocks, perfectly legal, 4age engine can slap it in just change engine number at vicroads, i got a good one for 1500ish? dont even remember but was over 1k but u can get one cheap for like 600 give or take depending where u look just be prepared for a pain when wiring it and converting to rwd from front, get a bolt in cage, dont need engineers and if u do just take it out, aslong as its adr approved should be fine on a track, can make ur car a 2 seater just register it as one, vicroads would prob do it no hassles being a coupe they would prefer it be a 2 seater.

Hen may possibly be a nut
30th December 2011, 09:04 PM
Lurkin, I understand your question, but unfortunately it's a very grey area. It is pretty hard to get a straight answer as to what's legal to modify/change. And in any case, even if you do something by the letter of the law, but the cop who pulls you over or the mechanic doing your roadworthy disagrees then you basically have to grab your ankles.

I'd suggest having a chat to some local mechanics who do roadworthy certs and listen to what they have to say. Find one who seems reasonable and understanding and grill him with the more detailed questions (a 6pack mid-afternoon goes a long way here). A motor swap, including to 4AGE, (along with plenty of other things) will need an engineers cert.

Essentially it is very difficult to keep everything entirely legal, and often a matter of interperetation. At some point you will probably have to make the decision "how legal am I happy with?". And the answer is up to you.

The other option is a 2011 Corolla and make sure you keep new tyres on it.

stahlz_ae86
31st December 2011, 11:36 AM
I would suggest buying an AE71 manual if you can find one, getting it roadworthy and registered in your name. From there you can modify it while it's registered. 4AGE is easy to get onto your rego details as you are going from 4A-XXXXXX to 4A-XXXXXX engine number. Do all the suspension stuff etc.. then once it's all done you can decide whether you want to keep it rego'd as your daily or as a track car. If you keep it as a daily it's probably best to engineer it once everything is done so it all gets certified at the same time. I have done pretty much the same mods with an Auto AE71 (couldn't find a manual one at the time) smallport, coilovers, brakes etc... and decided to just keep it as a track car and daily a panelvan. I became a member of TCCAV earlier this year and decided it was best to put my AE71 on club reg as I will not drive it much and rego works out cheaper as it's only limited use (130 instead 640 per year). So that could possibly be an option for you also.

Lurkin
2nd January 2012, 05:05 PM
Hey Paul,

Is there requirement differences for club reg/ are there restrictions that are different to normal regos? better still, is there law I can read on this?

You suggestion is exactly what I am thinking of! its just a matter of figuring out how to do it legitimately. Frankly I'm thinking of getting hold of a manual ae71, taking the time to work out what will be junked once the conversion begins - tidying up everything that will be kept as much as possible/ having a cheap run about in the meantime, then deciding whether to have a dedicated track car or not. I am pretty tempted to continue using public transport during the week (the daily) as I work in Melb CBD (flag paying for parking!) and building it up for a toy in the weekends...... also means I will not be dependent on it during the week....

stahlz_ae86
2nd January 2012, 05:38 PM
Depending on which permit you get, you're restricted to driving the car either 45 or 90 days of the year and you can't use the car for business purposes like taking payment to drive folks to a wedding for example. You should also bring the car along to car club meets a few times a year as well. Come to cars coffee donuts on the 15th and have a chat to some TCCA folks, it's enjoyable to be a part of it all even if you don't have a car where you're utilising the club rego. There's motorkhana's and other social events throughout the year.

Lurkin
3rd January 2012, 09:38 PM
Yep had a looksee at that thread, would be neat to meet a few people!

It'l be interesting to try and use public transport that far out! :)

stahlz_ae86
3rd January 2012, 10:16 PM
What suburb are you in? I'm northern suburbs too so I could pick you up if you wanna go. PM me if you want.