PDA

View Full Version : Rust Removal Tips n Tricks



Matt
20th May 2013, 04:30 PM
This thread will have how to guides on how to tackle particular bits of rust in panels etc.

Create a new thread with pictures of your rust that aren't shown how to fix in this thread.

haveaparty
21st May 2013, 10:55 AM
Subscribed to this thread to help people out. I'm a panel beater and know how to do most things.

Mirko
21st May 2013, 12:46 PM
I am going through this now on my 86 and actually found a guy who does it old school with metal replacement and not bog. He is a mobile guy in sydney and ill post pics of before and after if anyone is keen. Plus top price

Matt
21st May 2013, 01:09 PM
Yep keen on pics and guys details if he is looking to do more work.

marvis
21st May 2013, 01:28 PM
I would suggest doing it yourself. Welding setups are cheap and a really good investment.

It's such a better feeling doing everything yourself rather then having someone else do it.

Mirko
21st May 2013, 01:46 PM
Hey is top bloke. His name is Hermy and his number is 0406 203 740 he is here not working on the car and will post more later but here is a progress shot before welding and cuttinghttp://24.media.tumblr.com/1637664be717d7156378e827aaf7882f/tumblr_mn4nopVQE81s9bbtxo1_1280.jpg

mcBen
21st May 2013, 01:53 PM
Some people said to me to only cut out the metal that needed to be replaced, but I found it was better to cut out more then needed even if it wasn't rusted in order to make the new metal easier to shape and fit in place..

Matt
21st May 2013, 03:29 PM
Agree with the taking more than required... If you replace a 2cm hole or a 10cm one the process is the same.

K1W1 Simo
21st May 2013, 03:46 PM
The vent hole at the bottom of the B pillar is the source of all of the moisture that is causing the rust. Welding a 'patch' right next to the stricker plate only means that you need to grind it flat to fit the door stricker on correctly. Ideally you would cut out the steel above the stricker plate and weld that onto the new section. With the rust hole that is close to the outer skin of the rear quarter, that is going to 'pucker' hard when the heat of the welder kicks in. That door shut will need a big chunk of bog to get it back to factory fit.

Mirko
21st May 2013, 04:08 PM
He is cutting out more but just doing it in sections that was the first section he did. He has already cut out the rest and pretty happy with it all to be honest it wont be coming back anytime soon

Dskew3
11th July 2013, 09:03 PM
this thread is gonna help so much, rust removal is going to be my next mission after i get the car all wired up, i have a bit of rust on my 86 all the suspect spots of course. thanks to who ever started this thread.

Hen may possibly be a nut
29th July 2013, 12:52 PM
I agree with the above advice. Take out more than you think, because there is almost always more rust on the back of the bodywork that you can't see. If you take out too little then you'll be trying to weld a new piece onto a thin, half rusted body panel. And rust is a nightmare to try and weld to/near. And even if that works there's still a big rust patch lurking on the inside.

Also take your time and do it properly. I've done a few things quick and dodgy and it comes back to bite you on the arse far sooner than you expect. In my experience it take ages to get a replacement sheet bent correctly and trimmed to fit perfectly, but once welded in you never need to think about it again.

I must admit I always have to put a bit of bog over the top to get things nice and smooth again and here it's a balance between:
a) putting so much on that you're sanding all day to get it back to the right level.
b) putting on too little so there are still some spots that are below the level you want. If this is the case just bite the bullet and bog a little more.

Matt
29th July 2013, 01:00 PM
No matter how much time you spend with a body file, spoons etc you will nearly always need a skim of bog over it

K1W1 Simo
29th July 2013, 08:05 PM
Does anyone know if replacement panels exist for the " usual" rusted out sections on the 86? Most of the collectable cars around the world have replaceable panel sections for the prone rusty areas of their makes. Usually the panels are made from ex panel presses from the manufacturer, makes life real easy. Rare spares for instance.

McLEVIN
29th July 2013, 08:25 PM
Impulse in japan do thr rear panel on a 3dr. I think they are gonna do others too
New panels pop up on yahoo.jp quite frequently

K1W1 Simo
29th July 2013, 09:30 PM
Making a jig up to replicate the main rusty areas of the 86 wouldn't be difficult. Kick panel in front of A pillar, lower A pillar, sill, lower B pillar. The Alfa replacement panels have really bad fitment- normal for aftermarket parts. These are the parts we need to keep our Toyotas alive. Finding the original presses would be a bonus.

Mirko
29th July 2013, 09:56 PM
Like McLiven said impluse in Japan and also http://alfaparts.net/toycor.htm

Delazy
29th July 2013, 10:40 PM
Numerous people have tried to get hold of the wolf replacement panels previously and had no luck whatsoever I remember stumbling across numerous threads ranting and raving

Mirko
29th July 2013, 10:42 PM
Dont know much about them just saw it on the net

Lexsmaz
31st July 2013, 02:45 AM
Just stumbled upon this thread, Mirko your panel beater guy it appears he is laying a panel over the top of another panel ? does he cut out much of the rusted panel behind the panel he fits & what does he end up doing with the lip he makes from laying one panel on top of another i'm assuming just bog / blend it, idealy its best to butt weld it in, ie have the repair section exactly the same size as the cut out section & fit it flush & then weld it in takes more time but way better job / finish .. what does he use for welding mig or oxy & steel filler or braizing or tig .. Have you got any pics of a finished off panel ??

Matt
31st July 2013, 08:43 AM
I find using an oxy so much easier than mig. Just prob what I have used the most. My mig on the lowest setting still burns holes in the job easily. It doesn't have a pulse option which sucks.

I have about 200 odd pics from repairs I've done recently which ill use for new threads depending on what you want you need to do.

Mirko
31st July 2013, 09:13 AM
No he cuts old one out. So first he cuts out a replacement but bigger then the rust then uses that as a template to cut out the rust then removes it all and welds in new bit

Lexsmaz
31st July 2013, 05:23 PM
So he then welds in in flush, if that's the case sounds good, what welding technique does he use & any finished welding before painted photos would be good / interesting to see ..

Mirko
31st July 2013, 06:07 PM
Full old school not lead but cant remember whats its called. Ill take some pics put its good work l can say that

haveaparty
31st July 2013, 07:17 PM
For body panels, if u have access to an oxy welder and the skills to do it, then that is the way to go. Much neater welds. Can file finish if ur fussy. Much easier to hammer and dolly and file. For parts that are not visual or structural components. Then mig welding is best. Doesnt need to be as neat cause its hidden, more strength for structural areas, a lot less fiddley and quicker.

K1W1 Simo
31st July 2013, 08:53 PM
When I was in the 'resto' business, I spent 4 months on an Alfa Junior body- hand making panels, butt welding them in and hammer and filing the whole car to a smooth paintable surface. That would of cost the owner $20,000 + in body work alone. The 86 and the Alfa both have really thin steel panels, very hard to work with.

mcBen
31st July 2013, 09:46 PM
Is a layer of bog over new welds essential for filling nooks and crannys or is it only cosmetic? I don't really want to use it since my welded bits are all hidden by bumpers and cowls

haveaparty
31st July 2013, 10:23 PM
Bog isnt necessary. If the parts are hidden then I would bother. But for the outside body panels, if u want it to look smooth and not spend hours file finishing then bog is ur best friend.

jones23
13th March 2014, 09:17 PM
For removing the rust there is need of organic polymer, which provides a protective (http://centurionbarriersystems.com.au/airport-barrier/) primer layer on the surface and remove the rust completely.

roughworld
31st May 2014, 02:11 PM
Ive just noticed this thread, don't know how I missed it haha.. Ive been working in restoration for the last 6 years, Its always been a passion of mine, and to save killing it I got out of smash repair asap:P

I personally wouldn't touch corolla outer skins with an oxy, but I'm interested to see some pics of those who have

Couple tips I've got for mig welding rust repairs, always try and make your patch with rounded edges instead of just a square with sharp edges.. It distributes the heat a lot better and you'll have less chance of warping. And take your time fitting the patch, ultimately you want your patch slightly undersized like 1-2mm, it gives it room to stretch with the heat. If u don't leave room and the patch is too snug, you'll notice your patch will raise up because it its got nowhere to go.
Its always good to have a wet rag handy too, for an area like a roof, or bonnet, keep the area near your welds cool for less chance of warping. Id be happy to help anyone in s.e subs if beers supplied

haveaparty
31st December 2014, 01:05 PM
heres some rust repairs ive done on my ae86 over the last couple days. I managed to fins rust free second hand panels to help with my repairs.

some one has repaired this car before but dodgey af

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/4/5/3/542486.jpg (http://s1223.photobucket.com/user/haveaparty1/media/ae86%20resto/524FBAE4-72EA-4491-9E6D-B6E828E255F1_zps21aedbhf.jpg.html)
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/4/5/3/542487.jpg (http://s1223.photobucket.com/user/haveaparty1/media/ae86%20resto/FE7C4DFB-FC42-4C1C-8DBF-A24AC657C616_zpsddmwoczg.jpg.html)

cut out the area I wanted to replace
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/4/5/3/542488.jpg (http://s1223.photobucket.com/user/haveaparty1/media/ae86%20resto/47A184BA-D198-429B-A5F2-4F2A2F1CD749_zpslivbjqly.jpg.html)
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/4/5/3/542489.jpg (http://s1223.photobucket.com/user/haveaparty1/media/ae86%20resto/47A1814C-8AA9-422C-9A26-334C3114415F_zpsmjngsway.jpg.html)

then used the cuts I had to make the replacement section
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/4/5/3/542490.jpg (http://s1223.photobucket.com/user/haveaparty1/media/ae86%20resto/A107C2F0-E90C-46ED-95AA-20DD68DCD844_zpsh64drivx.jpg.html)

cleaned everything up and weld it in
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/4/5/3/542497.jpg (http://s1223.photobucket.com/user/haveaparty1/media/ae86%20resto/BDFE0364-9A19-4DC1-A95B-9C61BAC8493C_zpsqzo8n4hl.jpg.html)
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/4/5/3/542491.jpg (http://s1223.photobucket.com/user/haveaparty1/media/ae86%20resto/370A7571-E996-4C21-805E-A9B036BF1417_zpsel2upiye.jpg.html)

did the same for the quarter window section
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/4/5/3/542496.jpg (http://s1223.photobucket.com/user/haveaparty1/media/ae86%20resto/E2351833-06A7-4E85-A047-387E4007C5D8_zpsvok746bv.jpg.html)

MickStephens
4th November 2015, 03:02 PM
Just a browser of this forum for now but glad I stumbled across this thread. I am enrolled into night school for 16 weeks next year to do a panel and paint course. Love to learn more about it etc.

One question someone in here might be able to answer, with an oxy/acetylene set up, how much do the bottles cost to hire and/or refill etc? Ive heard all Oxygen tanks and acetylene tanks are not for sale and you must hire them. Is this true? I think ill get more use out of an oxy set up than a mig but will probably have both eventually.

Matt
5th November 2015, 07:35 AM
I think it works out about 200 a year for the acyletaline and a bit cheaper for the oxygen. I looked into it as well and whilst oxy is good to learn with, it can distort the panels allot due to the heat.

Recently the place where I get my gas from started letting you buy outright bottles. So whilst it may seem allot of $ for a bottle up front if you use it on weekends and sporadically in the long run you save allot

For shrinking panels I bought a map torch

MickStephens
5th November 2015, 09:23 AM
I think it works out about 200 a year for the acyletaline and a bit cheaper for the oxygen. I looked into it as well and whilst oxy is good to learn with, it can distort the panels allot due to the heat.

Recently the place where I get my gas from started letting you buy outright bottles. So whilst it may seem allot of $ for a bottle up front if you use it on weekends and sporadically in the long run you save allot

For shrinking panels I bought a map torch

Thanks Matt,

I am a novice at best with both. I did do a pre-apprenticeship about 20 years ago and did welding for a month or so. Used to enjoy using the oxy more than the mig but yes, I used to blow holes in the metal with both haha...

bunki86
5th November 2015, 11:49 AM
.....