Toyota 86 + Forced induction = BOOOOOOOOOOM!

[Matt]

The guys at NRG Automotive have released pictures of the Turbo charged GT86 that had 3500kms on the clock before it let go.

http://www.nrgauto.com.au/images/layout/carBanner.jpg

The pictures tell allot of this build, but by the sounds of it the rod snapped sending the piston into the valves bending them and punching a hole in the block.


http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/5/3/4/9/511201.jpg

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/5/3/4/9/511202.jpg

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/5/3/4/9/511203.jpg

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/5/3/4/9/511204.jpg

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/5/3/4/9/511205.jpg

The valves sitting up here..

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/5/3/4/9/511206.jpg

What is left of the piston

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/5/3/4/9/511207.jpg

Busted Rod

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/5/3/4/9/511208.jpg

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/5/3/4/9/511209.jpg


Please show your appreciation for the pics and like the NRG facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/pages/NRG-Automotive-Repairs/190178977674340

[AIROCOBRA]

Here is the thing ---- maybe these engine are not designed to be boosted , well no as much as this one , whatever it was. Sort of looks like someone got something really wrong , that is one hell of a failure !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Frak]

Just on this, I have dynoed an 86 and was shocked at the mid range dip in the torque curve BUT whilst at manufacturers training on this engine, noticed that the oil pump has a variable pressure delivery and in the area where the torque is lower, the pressure from the pump is also quite low, about 25psi from memory and then as the rpm rises it increases to 60/70psi( the pressure was also higher below the torque dip as well), I showed the trainer the power/torque curve, overlaid it over the pump pressure delivery curve and then started wondering what will happen when torque is increased in this range and oil pressure is not, what will happen????? I imagine bearing problems! It will be interesting to see if up graded pumps come out that do not have the variable pressure delivery from aftermarket tuners, or if we see a run of modified 86'ers running bearings or throwing rods!

[Konakid]

Just on this, I have dynoed an 86 and was shocked at the mid range dip in the torque curve BUT whilst at manufacturers training on this engine, noticed that the oil pump has a variable pressure delivery and in the area where the torque is lower, the pressure from the pump is also quite low, about 25psi from memory and then as the rpm rises it increases to 60/70psi( the pressure was also higher below the torque dip as well), I showed the trainer the power/torque curve, overlaid it over the pump pressure delivery curve and then started wondering what will happen when torque is increased in this range and oil pressure is not, what will happen????? I imagine bearing problems! It will be interesting to see if up graded pumps come out that do not have the variable pressure delivery from aftermarket tuners, or if we see a run of modified 86'ers running bearings or throwing rods!

Frak why would they run a variable pressure pump in the first place?

With a big turbo the motor could come on boost hard right where the oil pressure is low.

[hachirusto]

What sort of boost was the engine seeing in this instance?

[Brett Middleton]

I think the above question will help us all here.
BOOST?
Who tuned it?
With what?
We have done many turbo and supercharged kits now and yes we are aware of faults and failures.
Thankfully none by us.
BUT yes there is a risk with ANY mod on ANY car
:)

[Matt]

I'd love to see the top of that piston, that would tell us much more about what was wrong with the tune if anything. But given compression ring was sitting in the sump when it was pulled of it is safe to assume some form of detonation was present.

Find it interesting that "This is what failed causing the problem other end was still connected to the crank and big end bearings still servicable" quoted from their facebook page when referring to the snapped rod.

[Jimmee1990]

Possibly boost causing the rod to fail under compression perhaps? On another note, I'm very interested as to why they would run a variable pressure oil pump? A small fuel economy benefit perhaps from less drag?

[Delazy]

Pretty certain I've seen the oil pump problem mentioned elsewhere that Frak touched on...I do also recall seeing a "modified" oil pump for them in my interwebz trawling...

[Frak]

A small fuel economy benefit perhaps from less drag?

This was my first thought.

[dove grey 64]

I would have thought that the oil pump would/should always be over engineered.
Anyone can make an engine pop. Need more info

[Vance]

for the power gains people are getting from these engines under forced induction i dont know why people bother with it when left with standard internals. if i was going to boost one of these motors i would lower the compression ratio to run more boost.

with such a high compression ratio turbo im not surprised it went bang. i know with the direct injection you can stop the engine from knocking with correct tuning, but even when that is done you still run into over heating issues.

i would suspect this failure would most likely be related to over heating and the driver continued to thrash it.


i understand where everyone is coming from with the oil pump being variable pressure, but do you honestly believe that this engine blew when revving under 4000rpm?


thanks for the insight on the oil pump btw Frak. everything i keep reading and hearing about this engine points leads me to this conclusion:
idle-4000rpm: the engine is designed to be as fuel efficient as possible
4000rpm-redline: the engine is designed to take on a different nature

this is simply because most people barely drive their cars over 3000rpm when daily driving, and barely rev their cars under 5000rpm when seriously thrashing them.

sure the torque curve drop sucks but you dont even notice it in either scenario. i know i dont.

[Matt]

High comp turbo is so much fun, no lag amazing throttle response etc. I used to think turbo must be < 9:1 comp but after driving one with 11:1 my attitude changed.

e85 also helps allot with the concerns you raised dan.

Ecu's today no longer have the latency they used to have allowing what wouldn't work 5 years ago to work today.

[lolwat]

Correct me if im wrong honda guys have been straping turbos to high comp engines for years now

[danielc86]

This was my first thought.


hi. i could be talking about something i know nothing about but when i got my 86. i was talking to toypta about turbo charging it. and they told me about a dude that aparantly turbod an 86. and took i strait to the track and ran 22 pound and blow the engine. is this that 86. sorry for the spelling. i cant see what im writing for some reason

[marvis]

Fuckkkkk nice.

[ae8zn6]

Its unlikely that its the same one, a few have been forced induction engines have been lunched just in Australia, let alone the world...

I think Castle hill performance center were the first in Aus and from memory they did it out on the putty road (or somewhere similar) then towed it back to the workshop, took the turbo and aftermarket loom off then went back to Toyota to try and claim warranty, lol

[Vance]

buy these if you wanna have decent FI engine without cooling issues and reliability

http://ft86speedfactory.com/engine-43/pistons-65/?zenid=5bdc64f1851b36b6cae717578d89d477

http://www.rhdjapan.com/reimax-oil-pump-gear-kit-fa20-brz-86.html

[nelpd96|]

Robbo, I have spoken about this issue with CHE before. I know Dale quite well and can say with certainty that there was no attempt at a warranty claim. There were certainly a bunch of people that were happy to get on the CHE bashing bandwagon after it happened. At the end of the day they took a risk and the engine let go. They were the first to do it so they were always going to run into issues and Dale has fully documented the whole build including the issues and outcomes.


Its unlikely that its the same one, a few have been forced induction engines have been lunched just in Australia, let alone the world...

I think Castle hill performance center were the first in Aus and from memory they did it out on the putty road (or somewhere similar) then towed it back to the workshop, took the turbo and aftermarket loom off then went back to Toyota to try and claim warranty, lol

[ae8zn6]

Fair enough Paul, maybe it was a different car, but when I dropped my car at Windsor Toyota for the 1000km inspection/service the guy working the desk happened to live 2 doors down when we were growing up. He told me the story that someone had brought one in with all the loom slashed and a blown motor. He said they then simply typed in the rego number in youtube and sure enough there were videos of it being dyno-tuned with a turbo hanging off it. This conversation happened only a couple of days before I heard about the CHE car breaking their engine. When I heard about it I connected the stories given that Windsor is so close to Castle Hill and that when I watched videos of their dyno-tuning the licence plates were clearly visible (and I believe even tagged in the description).

However, linking the two stories was an assumption I made, so if it wasn't that car it must have been another.

[Matt]

Another one that went boooom - http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56141

Seams to be running 17+ afr - lean as tbh

[marvis]

Just a little. Hahaha

[johl]

did anyone actually read all that? im waiting for the audio tape version

[dove grey 64]

did anyone actually read all that? im waiting for the audio tape version

Lol. I didn't read it. Think this thread header summed it up pretty well

[marvis]

I had a skim over it. Pretty fucked situation.