A few 22R questions

[LittleRedSpirit]

Just a few questions regarding the 22re engine.

1. Looking for headers, and Im wondering if some of the Hilux fitment headers will fit properly or with minimal mods. I have heard both that they do, and do not, so was wondering if anyone had real world first hand info or a known set that will work.

2. Im deleting the EGR stuff and the smog pump soon, so that I can run extractors that do not have all the extra junky connections on them and declutter the bay.

I assume the smog pump can go, as can all the hoses and connections. I still plan to run ac and Im wondering where to draw the line with removing stuff. Ill obviously keep the whole ac system and the idle up solenoids and all that. Just wondering really if there is anything I need to know before attempting to remove. Anything thats really important that I should keep, that might otherwise seem tossable, tips for young players as it were?

I know Ill Minded just did up his 22r, but he has tidbits of info scattered around his thread and it may prove more cohesive if we can get a bit of a 22re tech thread going since there are a few people on here with the mighty RA65 now.

[Konakid]

RJ70 bundera do, there are some for sale on here at the moment that were on an RA65. I tried Some hilux 22r and they didnt fit but cant remember if they were 2wd or 4wd or 22rc or 22re, almost certain they were the 2wd version and they fouled on the firewall becuase they didnt drop down far enough vertically.

[LittleRedSpirit]

Thanks, so you personally have fitted bundera headers to a celica?

[Konakid]

No but refer this thread, bottom of the page, http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php/19868-not-another-RT142/page3

they were on an RT142, same shit

[LittleRedSpirit]

Solid. Thanks.

[ill-minded]

Pretty much all of the emissions related items can be deleted without affecting how it'll run. The only thing that would be worth keeping is the cold idle valve located under the intake manifold. I would have kept mine, but too many of the moulded hoses running to and from it were hard and brittle. I do have plans to retrofit a simple solenoid actuated valve with a NC thermofan switch in place of the factory setup though once I sort out my alternator and any other little issues.

The main ones you'll be looking at will be the EGR and the manifold air injection systems. The EGR bits are just the few little pipes and valves bolted between the back of the intake manifold and the rear of the head and the manifold air injection system runs from the canister looking thing that sits behind the air box, runs under the intake manifold into some random valves and voodoo magic, then the two steel pipes that run around the back of the head and bolt to the top of the exhaust manifold. Any of the vacuum valves that are usually located on the top of the valve cover can be disconnected and the extraneous wiring tucked away. There is one which is the A/C idle up, which you'll probably need if you're keeping your A/C. In any case, I've pretty much gutted the whole lot and mine still starts and runs fine, aside from the lack of a cold idle valve, so it's a bit annoying until the engine warms up a bit.

If it's any help, you can see how much less there is hooked up on mine in the picture below. If you still have the hose that runs from the front breather on the valve cover back to the intake manifold (which runs through a port which opens up before the throttle plate), keep that. Mine was cactus, so while I had it blocked off in that picture, I need to put a little filter on it for now.
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/515837.jpg

Compared to this horrid mess...
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/515838.jpg

Don't hesitate to ask if you want any more pictures or any more details. I get a little lazy when updating my build thread at times, so I usually gloss over the smaller details, haha.

[ill-minded]

Actually, while we're dumping 22R tidbits, Kelpro urethane engine mounts (Part number: MT8153N) lift the engine enough to raise the sump about 5mm above the level of the crossmember; for those who run low enough to cream the sump on everything. They're a bit of a prick to install though, as you'll need to unbolt the mount bracket from the engine block slightly to allow the mount to get close enough to the crossmember mounts so you can pry them into place and bolt them in. Kinda hard to explain through words, but you'll get what I mean if you ever install them.

[Konakid]

kelpro do urethane mounts, awesome!

[LittleRedSpirit]

Hey thats great info, thanks.

Yes got sick of pawing through projects and decided to build a tech resource instead.

Mines auto so I dont want to delete the cold idle features as it will probably stall while cold, so I'm going to keep that. I already changed out a weeping hose to it at great cost to my knuckles. Just being able to work on it is a big part of the motivation for binning the smog and egr stuff. The smog pump just sounds awful spinning away, kinda like skipping a steel sheet off the bitumen, if you put your ear to it.

[Konakid]

Nice write up Ill minded, i plan on deleting the uneccesary emissions stuff from my daily Avante soon. Just went trhrough and replaced full gasket kit, rad, water pump, clutch, shifter bush, thermstat, timing chain, etc etc, the list goes on!

[ill-minded]

Thanks guys. I'm currently in the process of sorting out my alternator not charging. I did a bit of researching around just to see what other parts are interchangeable on ToyoDIY and it turns out a lot of the internals swap over from a bunch of other Denso alternators. I think most of the mid eighties models with 60A alternators are pretty much the same, aside from the casing and the pulley bolted to the front. Food for thought. :)

Oh, and the urethane engine mounts don't appear to be any noisier or harsher than the factory rubber mounts. Bonus!

[LittleRedSpirit]

I have a spare alternator that is supposed to work here somewhere.

[marvis]

What ill-minded said.

[ill-minded]

Replaced the regulator and diode pack on the back of my alternator with the ones from a 5E-FE alternator and everything seems to be good now. :)

[tin can]

i bought an 120 22re alternator from ebay for 90 bucks brand new

[Konakid]

Hey ill minded did you have an issue with the engine mount cover fouling on the engine mount? The cover goes between the block and the engine mount.

[ill-minded]

The little plate cover that goes between the urethane mounts and the bracket off the engine?

The instructions with mine said to leave them out. :) They might be a bit tight to install, so you may need to loosen off the bolts holding the bracket to the block to get the mounts to slot into the crossmember before you can nip it all back up again. Nothing out of the ordinary though.

[Konakid]

Ahhh no worries, yeah that is what i was talking about. The whole motor is out at the moment for a rebuild to handle more boost so ill put them in! Cheers dude.

[LittleRedSpirit]

As an update to the headers question, I have the Bundera headers from Sam here, he dropped em off on his way through town yesterday arvo.

Im going to have them fitted and report how it goes.

In preparation, I have already deleted the egr stuff and the smog pump. Oh my god what a pain to do in the car, but with enough wrestling you can get the annoying smog pump pipes out from behind the motor if you undo the heater hoses and unclip some wires.

To do this I made 3 block-off plates, one on the inlet manifold, one on the head and one on the headers. Good thing is the headers I have to fit are non egr/smog pump compatible, so once they are fitted that's a lot of the remaining ugly steel hoses gone. Might need to have a heat shield made, or adapt the stock one if it doesn't fit. They are a really block hugging design, a lot like stock headers.

[Futo_gt86]

Hi,
Just wanted to share some 22R knowledge.
The factory timing guides are plastic and ware out every 100,000-200,000 depending on servicing and driving style. Shit idea.
You will notice a rattle on start up. Its just slight, until the oil pumps up.
This is known as the 22R "death rattle" Google it, well know phenomena.
If goes unnoticed, the rattle is actually the chain with no guide eating its way through the timing cover right where a water gallery is, eventually right through and you get water in your oil which warps and fooks tha whole show game over.
I came across this guy, ENGNBLDR.COM and on Ebay.
He sells metal timing guides that never have to be replaced in the life on the engine.
If you email him he is a wealth of information, and sells everything under the sun for these motors for not a lot of money.
He has some aggressive cams, 270/430 were like $130? bolt in oversize valve kits......no machining all good stuff.
Might be worth a look for you.

[LittleRedSpirit]

Yes Ive been looking at his site and ebay listings for some time. I've also been told that the rattle on startup of the chain slapping the guide can be reduced, as can wear on the guide, by always using the genuine oil filter that has an anti drainback valve to maintain a lil extra oil in the system and provide earlier lubrication. Im going to test this as I have a Ryco on there now but will try a genuine one and see if the momentary rattle you get is reduced.

[ill-minded]

I've got a genuine Toyota (D2) on mine at the moment. I barely hear any slap at all from the timing chain. That being said, I did just rebuild my motor with a new chain and steel backed guides.

[LittleRedSpirit]

If I was going to upgrade the timing guides in mine, Id probably just remove the head at the same time and freshen it up with a cam, springs, some new rocker arms and oversize valves. Its really the only way to get any life into these engines. I found a really interesting article online once where an engineer with some professional level engine dyno modelling software modelled all the different camshafts on the market through a stock 22re head and the limiting factor was clearly the head. All the camshafts designed for peak hp were from memory within 119-126 hp, at similar peak rpm. To me this says oversized valves as big as you can go might be a good start, as well as either a completely re-designed inlet manifold or a heavily reworked one with a larger tb.

[ill-minded]

It's the intake ports man. If you crack the intake manifold off one, you'll see what I'm talking about. Really constrictive swirl ports, which probably help with emissions and economy (arguably) but choke the intake side up at 130CFM. The exhaust ports actually outflow the intakes by about 30CFM in standard trim. Apparently the stage 5 heads from LC Engineering flow about 220CFM @ 0.5" through the intake side with some serious remodelling.

[LittleRedSpirit]

That sounds more like it. Yes theres a definite bottle neck there, they do a larger volume manifold too dont they?

[LittleRedSpirit]

Another more ra65 specific question.

I know you can fit an is200 lsd to the f series rear carrier in the ra65. What Im wondering is about a bit more info on the is200 rear ends.

Ive seen them with 4 and 6 bolt unions for the driveshafts. I know the 6 bolt ones are usually type 2 torsen centres as thats what I had installed in my F live diff.

I just spotted on ebay a 4 bolt centre that has an lsd in it. Would it be safe to assume thats the weaker type 1 torsen centre?

[japlish]

i THINK is200 is 4 bolt and is300 is 6 bolt?

[LittleRedSpirit]

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyota-truck-4runner/587414-22re-cam-info-specs.html