Power fc + itbs

[Bitsta]

Hey guys,
I've recently gotten myself a power fc. Reason I got it was simply due the the plug and play factor, meaning less money spent on trying to wire it all up.
Now I've had a talk to a tuner, and he said it'll be a bit of a problem trying to get the 4age running properly with itb's. I've always thought being a full stand alone ecu it'll be alright.
Can someone shed some light ?
Im sure plenty of people have done this setup, but he makes it sound like it's doable, but rough at idle etc.
He also mentioned something about Map sensor on the 4age, said that it'll have trouble tuning with just map sensor :/
Any help would be highly appreciated !

[tottacrolla]

The problem you are likely to encounter is a low and fluctuating Map signal. Do a search for "map + itb"
If the power F-C can tune alpha-n which uses rpm as the load then you will have no problem.
Alpha-n essentially uses TPS vs RPM for the fueling and ignores the Map signal

[Bitsta]

I've looked into that, but I can never get a straight answer. If the tuner isn't confident enough I might just have to sell it and use the emanage blue I have, even though it's just a piggy back.
If I can find a thread on how to wire tps signal in rather than using map signal, I'll tell mention it to the tuner and see what he can do

[Skylar]

I guess you could do a straight TPS tune but it's not the best way of doing things.

The emanage isn't much better in this application either.

Just sell both and buy something that does alpha-N, as a tuning mode which you select, or better yet, 4d tuning (tps/map blending<-the proper way). Even janky meggasquirts can do it in what they call "ITB mode". Megasquirts are pretty cheap if you're keen and and willing to learn a bunch of stuff about electronics, and even tuning. Whole set up tuned including wideband and some jaycar amplifier based knock ears is only like 750... but a shitload of your time.

[dove grey 64]

Quick question, is the motor stock?
If it is there isnt really any gains to be had for the hassle of getting it to run well with quads.
Unless your raising the compression and running cams your otherwise stock bigport will most likely have less bottom end power but better top end, good for track, not so good for daily driving

[Bitsta]

Yes the car is stock with just bolt ons. However I bought the car like that and I have the computer. I mainly just want to run better and not so rich. When I mean rich, I mean rich rich. I looked into megasquirt, Im in no way able to tune something programable, I suck at that shit. Should've just bought an adaptronic :(
Power fc's are so hard to sell since there's competing ecu's for about the same price, newer and allow more tunable applications

[Skylar]

PFC's have a use and that's stock setup turbo engines, when you don't mind keeping single coil and distributor. Then again, if you wanna sell it, it's gonna have to be pretty cheap since it can't do much, especially compared to base level vipec/haltech/adaptronic. It's as basic as an MSnSE and makes the MS2 look way superior even though it's a real simple ecu.

I can tell you how to connect tps wire to map wire but 1. I would rather you didn't do that and 2. your tuner should already know how to do that.

[SamsTA22]

It doesn't look like Powerfc's support alpha-n tuning, or at least it isn't an option that I could find in FC-edit. However, you could probably get it to work if you wired the TPS signal to the load input (MAP or MAF), and get whatever tuner to tune it as if the load axis was TPS.

[Bitsta]

So right now I'm weighing between a adaptronic or a megasquirt. Obviously pros on megasquirt is I can get it in plug and play form also, meaning less labour for wiring. But tuning is the part that worries me. It's an American ecu, I've no idea who in Brisbane would tune it :/

[dove grey 64]

Best thing to do is find a tuner with a good reputation work with 4age's and ask him which ecu to go with.
Alot of different ecu's require software to accompany them, tuners have to pay for the software and sometimes a licensing fee to use it.
Best to call around and meet some pros in the area and get some advice

[SamsTA22]

Best thing to do is find a tuner with a good reputation work with 4age's and ask him which ecu to go with.
Alot of different ecu's require software to accompany them, tuners have to pay for the software and sometimes a licensing fee to use it.
Best to call around and meet some pros in the area and get some advice

Adaptronic and Megasquirt both have uncontrolled free software (How it should be). But regardless, you'll still want someone who doesn't minding tuning with one. Start making phone calls...

[Skylar]

Not quite true. VE analyse live is an extra feature that you have to pay for. Makes tuning quicker too if you wanna use it. As far as I understand, it's muck like the mixture map that I posted up in my thread about. If a tuner's playing it with it, he'll know how much to adjust cells by and having it strapped to a dyno and being able to adjust it pretty regularly is much nicer than the likes of me tuning off logs after a 5 minutes drive on the street.

Adaptronics and vipec software are free though since you payed them for it as you bought their product. The MS software (Tunerstudio) is written by some guy on the forum. He makes the basic version free so that MS isn't prohibitive but you gotta pay for the nicer features.

You can do MS plugin but it's gonna be MS2Extra, not MS3 like I have. But MS2E will be plenty for you because you don't need PWM idle/boost control/NOS/2-step/water injection control/5th injector/blah blah. You probably want to pull the loom out and add extra wires for sequential injection and ignition though. Pretty sure Kaizen garage (site sponsor) or adaptronic themselvs can do patch harnesses for bluetop 4age. If not, I'll make you one. For adaptronic/vipec/MS/haltech/whatever.

MS software is pretty simple to use. I freakin' hated the vipec software at first but I've gotten used to it now and although it has its quirks, I'm pretty happy with it. Any tuner who's actually any good should be willing to give it a shot. BUT don't buy one til you get tuner's go ahead.

[SamsTA22]

I stand corrected. Forgot that Megasquirt doesn't technically have its own software.

I've always liked the vipec software (just checked to make sure its identical to the link software, which it is.) Admittedly, it took a little while to figure it out, but its better than a lot of what I've seen (looking at you, Autronic!)

Anyway, back on topic. If you go Megasquirt, PWM idle might be useful depending on whether you're running an ISCV...

[Skylar]

Sorry to keep correcting you but link is identical to vipec except vipec has mixture map, link does not.

[SamsTA22]

Don't be. Another thing I probably would never have known otherwise. But, seeing as the logging format for both is identical, I could use the vipec mixture map with logs from my link ecu, right?

[Skylar]

I dunno the answer to that. From all accounts, when vipec first came out it was the exact same. I dunno about the interoperability now.

Now, thinking about this logically. You need to load your link map into the vipec software for mixture map to do its corrections. Whether that can happen, I don't know. But I would think that the log file would be able to be loaded in either of the software packages. That would allow you see the mixture map but not have it do the corrections for you.