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View Full Version : 16V to quad throttle manifolds- in aluminium / carbon fiber



Sam-Q
22nd May 2014, 01:10 AM
16V 4age to quad throttle manifold


Thought I would give people a bit of an advanced notice on what I might be able to offer soon enough.

These are manifolds to bolt 20V silvertop quad throttles on to a 16V, with both big and smallport versions made available. I only want to release a product that's actually finished and doesn't require further mods. No porting the inside to get rid of the sharp edges, enlarging or adding extra barbs for vacuum, drilling the flange to suit the factory dowels in the head, grinding to suit the most common type of 4age water pipe out there or anything else that people shouldn't have to do to a brand new product.


If everything works out here are the features these will end up with:

- CNC milled flanges on head and for the throttles

- 2 x CNC milled braces between the above (one of these shown in blue in the pic)

- Molded and angled carbon fiber tubes

- (Long enough to clear both front and rear wheel drive water pipes with the throttles the right way up) Update: no longer likely as the linkage doesn't clear

- Curved up for more clearance off the velocity stacks

- Enough individual ports for the following: 2 x brake booster, 4 x map and 1 x fuel reg

- Ideal port match on both ends

- no cheated bends or sudden changes anywhere, all with curves for max flow

- specifically applied finish on the inside of the tubes for maximum air speed




Even with only some of these features these manifolds would be completely superior to anything else out there and if all goes well even a lower price compared to any other product once delivered.


In the pics below the pictured 3D model is a very early version and it's rather incomplete. In the pic the front flange is only joined #1 to #2 when later it will join all of the throttles. Also the blue brace will likely also be between #3 and #4 as well.

31919 31918



If all my plans work out this may available in as soon as 4 to 8 weeks

Estimated price: $320



any questions?

Jimmee1990
23rd May 2014, 01:26 AM
Awesome sounding product Sam, and a very reasonable price. I'm definitely in for one of these and your billet stacks pending final prices.

Sam-Q
23rd May 2014, 02:49 AM
Things are looking promising

I did a test fit and without a custom throttle linkage there is no way to make these clear the RWD water pipe with the throttle the right way up. At this stage I am looking into making the option of the throttles being able to be put in either position if the holes don't overlap. I will find out. The R&D continues.

jdm86gtz
23rd May 2014, 08:17 AM
One advantage of the upside down throttle mounting in an AE86 is a RHD AE86 accelerator cable will reach the linkage( a little tight maybe) or an AE101/111 cable which is 2" longer

Sam-Q
23rd May 2014, 12:14 PM
I tired it in the model and having the option of either direction stuffs up my vacuum port design. Oh well this is R&D for you.

I wanted to go away from upside down throttles for this very reason, I found that with a T3 manifold the cable had 2 tight bends and there was no more throttle feel left at all, it was a stiff unresponsive pedal. Although I may have an indirect solution for this yet though.

jdm86gtz
23rd May 2014, 05:24 PM
You could try make up a new linkage lever like the RS Chita one available for the 20Vs
http://page6.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/f134717880

Sam-Q
26th May 2014, 08:55 PM
I could and I did think of that but that means I would have to supply that with every kit and add another $100 to it. Then I am sure many people would just see the final price more than anything else. I am facing this in other areas too for example do I include all the barbs and fittings, many won't know that they no longer need a vacuum block but they do see the manifold's price when it's $30 more, even if it is cheaper than the alternative.

regginblack
29th May 2014, 11:37 AM
Looking forward to this!!!!!
Going to be sick!

axalotyl
22nd June 2014, 09:32 AM
DIY silvertop ITB's to 16V smallport in an AE86...

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/7/6/2/0/556117.jpg (http://s984.photobucket.com/user/jondee1/media/ITB001s_zpsadd5d346.jpg.html)

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/7/6/2/0/556118.jpg (http://s984.photobucket.com/user/jondee1/media/ITB002s_zpscbe18d10.jpg.html)

Ended up a bit close to the clutch master and brake booster, but I did manage to get an ITG sausage filter installed. Cleared everything else no worries. Making them for a bigport would be a bit more dicking around, mainly as I don't think you could just take a piece of round tube and squeeze the end.

Cheers... axalotyl

Sam-Q
26th June 2014, 07:25 AM
That's really neat, it sure doesn't look DIY so take that as a compliment.

You're completely right about the issues with adapting to the bigport opening. This is the reason why I have not gone down this option. To help me understand what to do myself I would like to know why you ended up deciding to angle it upwards if you wouldn't like to share?

axalotyl
26th June 2014, 11:01 AM
Long story, but I will try and keep it short :) Way back I saw a lot of T3 adapter installs where people had problems with stacks hitting the brake booster, and having to put the TPS at the back to keep it away from the water neck. I also saw that the CNC round to oval transition was pretty crude, and needed porting to smooth it out a bit.

I decided that I wanted something better, and since RS Chita wouldn't sell outside of Japan, I made my own. I went for more length to allow for a smooth taper, and curved the runners up to try and clear the brake booster (forgot about the clutch master). End result did allow the TPS to clear at the front, and having longer runners meant I could get away with shorter stacks.

One of the aims with this particular build was to see if it was possible to fit quads to a 16V without the loss of bottom end that was said to occur. That meant that a longer runner and a smooth transition were basic design features. And in that respect, the build has been a complete success, with the engine pulling strongly from low rpm even with 272 deg cams.

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/7/6/2/0/556124.jpg (http://s984.photobucket.com/user/jondee1/media/filter01s_zps5e1fb909.jpg.html)

However, as you can see, there is not a lot of room at the back, and the filter mounting plate finished up exactly level with that little nub on the clutch master. Even after I shaved a few mm off the nub I still only have about 1mm clearance. But the filter fits and keeps bugs and leaves out, so I can live with that.

Cheers... axalotyl (jondee86 everywhere else)

slide86
26th June 2014, 12:53 PM
This is a total day dream, but how awesome would it be if a variable length trumpet system could be designed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trHgOSO1Xtk

axalotyl
26th June 2014, 03:47 PM
:bones:

axalotyl
26th June 2014, 03:52 PM
This is a total day dream, but how awesome would it be if a variable
length trumpet system could be designed.
Yamaha have actually implemented a variable stack length system on the R1
along the same lines as this ^^^ video. But interestingly enough, despite all
the technology they have at their disposal, they opted for a simple two length
system. The stacks are either short or long, as decided by the ECU according
the its analysis of several inputs.

I can only guess that the number of variables involved makes it impractical to
have a sliding "trombone" style stack modulated continuously like a VVTi system.
So, a pretty straightforward DIY if you are that way inclined :)

Cheers... jondee86

slide86
26th June 2014, 04:09 PM
Yeah i actually looked at a heap of other videos that displayed only a two stage setup. Long trumpets for low RPM and then going to a short runner higher up in the RPM range.

This wouldnt actually be too hard to do, and any aftermarket ecu would be able to control it these days.

Hmmmmmm maybe I should have a go!

Sam-Q
26th July 2014, 11:32 AM
axalotyl: yeah that's neat, good on you for doing your own. I am surprised you managed to get a ITG filter to fit.

slide86: that's a much better version of what I have seen before. Too bad the longest intake we can fit is still too short.

Sam-Q
26th July 2014, 11:41 AM
Update: The level of oscillations on a 16V have been measured and I have decided on just a straight 80mm long manifold. Flanges will likely be 13mm each with three small 12mm thick trusses between the plates. I shall make a new model soon.

I decided to go with a straight manifold because it allows for a longer intake than tilted upright. I found out that those guys at T3 only tilted theirs up so that their vacuum fittings would clear the metal water line. My manifold won't have such a limitation and hence I don't need to down-grade my design as such.

I am also tempted to just make my own version of a 16V RWD outlet and that way I can keep my throttles the right way up. Mine wouldn't be cast but rather a machined base with a shrink fit steel pipe in the side angled forward.