Read me very important

[hitoriko]

hi guys it might have already have a thread about it but...

i got a hearld sun article from my boss saying that as of AUG 1st 2009 cars cant be lowered more than 5cm without approval by the RTA so watch out for defects

the article date is 16 july
and quote

" From aug 1st car owners will be limited to rasing or lowering there suspension by no more than 5 centimeters, and all modificaions will need approval from RTA engineers"

better check your ride height lads

because this will most likely change in melbourne aswell...:(

[Gunner]

meh, fuck em

[PeakingDuck]

As if they'd have that much time on their hands to be approving of everyones mods though...What a bunch of itch-bays.

They can go suck a fart.

[OMG866]

fuck im over all this bullshit.

[Gunner]

thinking about it, this lines them up for you to have to go over the pits for every defect, I will bet my balls on it.

[dave2221]

they would never be able to enforce that shit.

besides, who is the authourity on the standard height anyway?

there are 1000 sprinter / ke70 nuts on this forum and i doubt that there are more than 20 that know std ride height for their cars....

how the hell is a normal coppa going to know then?

[Gunner]

I'd like to see proof of this though, since when did they start new laws in august its usually 1st of july.

Probably bullshit

[ke_70]

sa has been doing this for years but we cant even get it approved easily either (i think) they will hav a book with all the lowest eyebrow heights (centre of wheel to guard) you can hav. in sa 345mm is the lowest which is roughly 1.5'' higher than the height in my sig (not the random low one)

[OMG866]

yea it was on the news the other night. im not sure if they said there trying to bring in this new law - or they are bringin in the new law

[dave2221]

sa has been doing this for years but we cant even get it approved easily either (i think) they will hav a book with all the lowest eyebrow heights (centre of wheel to guard) you can hav. in sa 345mm is the lowest which is roughly 1.5'' higher than the height in my sig (not the random low one)


easy solution

angle grinder + guard = better "eyebrow height"

then you car can be on ass without being tech illegal (unless they are still enforcing 100mm ride clearance as well)

besides, what the point in doubling up the rules?

Law states you must have 100mm ride height....... having a 5cm from std rule serves little purpose than just making thing more of an administrative nightmare.

are they going to tell me lowering a car more than 5cm is a huge safety issue? what about the fact 99.9% of cars out there have a light out?

they should worry about enforcing the laws they have, instead of bringing out new ones all the time

[dave2221]

an example of how misguided this all is:

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/37361/nsw-rta-to-require-motorists-to-seek-approval-before-raising-or-lowering-suspension/
NSW RTA To Require Motorists To Seek Approval Before Raising Or Lowering Suspension
Jul 16th, 2009 by Tony O'KanePrint 9 comments Comment

NSW MOTORISTS will need to seek engineering approval for any height-altering suspension modifications from August 1 onwards, under tough new rules designed to stamp out dangerous car modifications.

New South Wales Minister for Roads Michael Daley announced today that under the new legislation vehicle ride height can only be changed by up to 5 centimetres, on the proviso that the modifications be approved by a licensed automotive engineer.

Under current NSW law a vehicle’s suspension can be raised or lowered by up to 5cm without an engineer’s approval, and by up to 15cm with an engineering certificate.



“I don’t want to see young hoons putting their lives or the lives of others at risk, just because they think their car looks better 15 centimetres closer to the ground,” said Mr Daley.

“These hoons may think their car looks cool, but as far as I’m concerned anything more than a 5 centimetre change in a car’s suspension is dangerous and doesn’t belong on our roads.”
Under the new laws vehicles will still need to have no part of their body less than 10cm above the ground, meaning cars that come from the factory with a low ride height may not be able to be lowered as much as other cars.

“It can affect handling, braking and safety features such as electronic stability control,” said Mr Daley.

“It can also change the position of vital impact-absorbing sections of a car, designed to reduce the severity of a crash.

“Raising a vehicle’s suspension can also reduce the driver’s ability to see pedestrians and cyclists, and higher headlights can startle other road users.”
Off-road enthusiasts who require a lift of greater than 5cm for competition reasons may be able to get special dispensation, however the days of the catseye-scraping modified car are well and truly numbered in NSW.



so it seems from this article (authenticity is not checked)
you wont be able to lower your car AT ALL without a engineer cert, and the max lowering will be 5cm

this is not what the first post said as:


i got a hearld sun article from my boss saying that as of AUG 1st 2009 cars cant be lowered more than 5cm without approval by the RTA so watch out for defects

" From aug 1st car owners will be limited to rasing or lowering there suspension by no more than 5 centimeters, and all modificaions will need approval from RTA engineers"



so ill be double checking the new laws.... as there have been 2 reports...

1. you cant lower your car more than 5cm without engineers cert
2. you cant lower your car AT ALL without engineer cert.

this thread NEEDS TO BE UPDATED WITH CORRECT DETAILS

[dave2221]

ok an update... here is how the law will work.

From August 1, car owners will be limited to raising or lowering their suspension by no more than five centimetres, and all modifications will need approval from Roads and Traffic Authority engineers.

Currently, a car can be raised or lowered by up to five centimetres without approval and by up to 15 centimetres with approval.

Any vehicle that is raised or lowered after August 1 will have to carry a certificate stating that the modifications confirm to safety standard requirements.


SO YOU BETTER FUCKING LOWER YOUR CAR WITHIN THE NEXT 13 DAYS

[focus_7]

incentive to buy coilies

[UGANGA]

done and done lol cars are low and legal :P

also guna stuf alot of the 4wd boys up lol no more monster 4 inch raise kits :(

[hitoriko]

i never said my article was 100% accurate its from the hearld sun! take it with a gain of salt but it does seem to show that we will be stuffed

[Beau]

My friend works on the board that brought this law in (he voted against it) the reason they brought it in has nothing to do with safety or such. Its all about revenue.! Get ready to be rammed!

[Gunner]

lets hope the coppers dont want to enforce it

[Golberg]

The only thing I can realistically see this targeting safety wise is people running cut springs. I have seen some accidents which have been as a direct result of people cutting their springs, its total stupidity. Whilst I don't agree with the law as long as there continues to be dickheads on the road which do bodgy mods (and there are a lot of them, including plenty on this forum) everybody else will continue to suffer MORE and MORE regulations.

And it doesn't matter if its just a revenue raising exercise, so long as people keep doing stupid shit with their cars, and doing stupid things on the road EVERYONE will suffer. And we all know that isn't likely to change any time soon, so over the next 5 years and onwards everyone should be well prepared that will get progressively reamed and reamed again.

Wow am I a pessimist.

On the bright side though, this introduces a new possibility. If there is an increase in demand for engineers certs, there will be an increase in demand for RTA engineers. And hopefully, maybe just maybe, it might introduce some competition and drive down engineer's usually excessive prices. If I could have my suspension engineered for $200 say, hell yeah I'd do it, I already know its safe and done properly. But currently most engineers charge a base rate of about $800, which is bullshit if you want anything small engineered.

Reality is though, if don't want to get hassled and still want to drive a modified car, just keep the car neat and tidy and don't drive like an idiot on the road and you'll be left alone.

[hitoriko]

Golberg you hit the nail on the head!

[ae86]

meh idc if it comes melbourne, we already get done for hight all the time, u raise it, u get roadworthy, and u wait for it to happen again, as far as im concerned they will know my car is 50mm lower than standard height but where will they get the info for height of an origional trueno? not like il fight it and make an ass of myself but i will ask them where they are going to get their facts from if it does happen

[gaz20v]

well, if we currently need certs for anything over 5cm its not gunna make a great deal more difference to pretty well everyone on here. Most are already past the legal limit and uncertified, meaning the new law will not make there car any MORE illegal, just means more cops will be looking out for it.

another revenue raiser.. what a pain in the arse, dont we pay enough tax!!

[sundee]

do they mean "approved RTA engineers"
doesnt the RTA have a data base of all RTA "approved" engineeers?
so if the engineers arnt listed on their data base then pretty much the cert is not valid from the RTA's point of view?

anyway if your ride is modded the right way u should be fine, ive had modded cars for years and only been defected once and it was for frayed seatbelts...

[redsprinter]

this suck balls.... hard ...

any 1 got a list of RTA approved engineers... i think alot of ppl including my self will need it .

[Gunner]

its on the rta site.

i was talking to a mate today, who is a highway patrol officer, he has agreed it is no more than revenue raising, and alot of the highway guys are against it.

He has told me, he will not be changing what he looks for when looking for defective vehicles, obviously if the vehicle in question is stupidly low its going to get defected, and I agree it should be, as a mechanic.

Though he can't speak for every policeman out there, if your car isn't retardedly low, you wont have a problem. So basically if you have cut springs, your coilovers are as low as possible or you have no springs, you will be pumped.

[dunga70]

so for all of us who's cars are allready lowered we still have to get a cert.. ive had my car for 2 yrs and its on th border line of 100mm or 10cm. and ive never had any problems defects or anything. and i do drive stupid some times.. but at the right times.. however i dont see why i should have to change my car at my cost or get a cert at my cost when its been how it is for 2yrs without a drama! looks like coilovers are goin to be the way to go.. then they will just defect u for them and have to get them engineered..

[Gunner]

seriously guys, just make sure you do not have cut springs, and keep driving, coppers dont want to defect us for lowering our cars, as long as we dont be stupid about it

[dunga70]

lol i dont have cut stock springs.. i have cut falcons for the rear lol .. still what eva im not stopping driving till i get stopped.. *uck the police, Im gangsta

[Gunner]

thats the way, im dumpin my mx32 when i pick it up, like im gonna drive around in a 4wd spec mx32.

[dunga70]

its not as tho these laws are even needed.. how many cars are lowered out there... i would say that only 5% max of the population rive lowered or raised cars.. i hate nsw

[Gunner]

They need to be able to differentiate between hoons, and enthusiasts. It shits me that if you are under 25 and own a modified car your a hoon, I'm not a hoon I'm an enthusiast, cars are my life, and makin them cool (read fast) is my passion, but if I drive a modified vehicle, I will be hassled, but I drive around in a very unroadworthy corolla, with mixmatched panels, and not once have i been stopped.

[pen15]

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/94/help-save-the-future-of-modified-cars-in-nsw

ok all we need to now band together to get this law fucked off as it is the biggest load of bullshit i have ever seen in my life and i am gonna lower my car to the tar just because this law is so stupid

sign the partition as alot of other forums have already started doing

[Gunner]

its already in general section dude

[Golberg]

Just had a conversation with my mate in the minitrucking scene and pretty much concluded this:

This kind of law introduction is incredibly typical of the authorities, I mean just think about all the restrictions and penalties which have been introduced in the past 5 years. There is ALOT. How many of these things have realistically helped in improving road safety? Undoubtedly they have had some impact but not a huge amount of "REAL" impact (and I'll get back to this soon).

The issue is, governance is monetarily and statistically driven. Looking firstly at statistics, what they have done to justify these changes is to look at statistics and use them as the entire justification for a change. The concept which is being overlooked here is the point that statistics are merely a decision making tool, and not be taken as the gospel. But you see, the government doesn't care, because on paper if statistics improve then they've succeeded haven't they? They've made things "better". For instance take some of the newer harsher penalties for people on P plates in relation to speeding. They've made them so tight now that one slip up results in loss of licence. Lets just have a look at what effect that has on statistics. They introduce new law, p plate fatalities goes down. Why? Its got nothing to do with solving the real issue here, they go down because there are less P platers on the road, because less have licences. And of course if there are less people on the road the stats are going to go down.

Then you can also see this from the monetary side, whenever the government brings in a new law or rule it comes attached with some sort of fine or payment. When was the last time they did something to help improve what the stats were saying which involved spending money rather than taking it away? As far as I am concerned, a change which would make a REAL difference in the same example as above would be to make all P platers compulsorily attend an advanced driving course. This wouldn't stop P platers from doing stupid things on the road and breaking laws. What it will do though is to teach people to have greater control of their car when they are doing stupid things. Thus, reducing the chances of loss of life or injury.

But if the government can both make statistics better and earn money at the same time, why would they not change legislation in this way? As far as they are concerned its all win.

So my final conclusion is that in order for governments to make statistics look better and also raise revenue then their way of doing it is to impinge upon civil liberties. For this to actually change it will require a fundamental change to the way society view things and its priorities.

All we can do for now is protest, and hope that the government takes in that we are against our liberties being slashed.





That really turned out to be an essay lol. Yes its very opinionated (but essays are), not everything in it is entirely based around researched fact. But I think it exposes a depressing reality.

[hitoriko]

all im saying is told ya so.... watch out melbourne

[af300e]

If in NSW you are currently permitted to lower a vehicle by up to 50mm without eng cert, provided it maintains 100mm clearance, how will they prove that your vehicle was lowered after 1st August 2009 unless the build date is after that time?

At face value, it sounds impossible to police.