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Thread: What is the cheapest/easiest way to get into rally.

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    Veteran anastasios's Avatar
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    Default What is the cheapest/easiest way to get into rally.


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    Hey guys I have recently landed myself a real job finally which means the 70 will be on the road and I was thinking of getting into some begginers rally. What classes or events are there that I could build a car for, also how can I find out about motorkhanas and stuff. Whats the deal with that excel class? Also what kind of cars would be a good option, I am open to all kinds of drive types.

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    Veteran Jonny Rochester's Avatar
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    I havn't done it, but I imagine rally is a huge logistical nightmare. You need more than just a job. You also need to know people already in rally, plus you need a father or uncle that is the practical sort, and he needs to have a 4WD and a car trailer. Plus your best mate needs to be an A1 mechanic. Plus your girlfriend navigator also needs a job (huge fuel and entry fees, plus helmets etc), plus she also has to run the whole business side of the car like getting sponcers etc.

    Or you can be a celebrity or company dirrector, and buy the friends/mechanics you need.

    If you are heading to do real rally oneday, then get out the CAMS rule book and look at engine swaps and stuff your allowed in your class. Then look at all the CAMS safety gear you need.

    I think you will have to run a non-turbo motor, and a motor originaly offered in the shell your using. Which would mean no KE70-4AG. But yes to KE70-2TGE. And yes to AE71 with weber carby on 4A-C. Or KE70 with sidedrafts on a 4K.

    But if you just doing motorkhanas and stuff, build any car you like. But do yourself a favor as a driver. It's not just about the car, it's about you as a driver. If your project in beyond you, you will never get any driving practice and your yooth will be wasted. Build a simple car (eg stock KE70 with a Weber and zorst) and spend your money on events and tyres. You will become an ace driver!

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    Veteran anastasios's Avatar
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    I know this is ae86drivingclub and there are alot of wannabe takumis out there who ask the question, I do have good support in my family as well, although I do think a 4wd would be a good start to have.

    I have built a few cars atm and was wondering what the first step would be to get into rally/dirt events or if there are any forums out there.

    I have built up my cars to my skill level as well, thats why I don't have a bogan 4age conversion in my ke70 atm

    I don't really need condescending comments.

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    Senior Member mack 10's Avatar
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    Good to see someone thinking of hitting the dirt. I’m competing in the South Australian Rally Championship in my 86.

    Classes- It varies. From the bottom there is club dirt motorkhanas and khanacross. Then you would get yourself into doing some clubman style rally sprints. Then to full blown special stage rallying at a State level.

    To give you an idea were running in P2 which is under 1600cc 2wd at a SARC level. Our entry fees are anywhere from 250-500 dollars for SARC stuff and ROSA which is an ARC round is a tad under $1000. We destroy a set of rear tyre a round and there around 200 dollars a corner. Plus fuel and all that gear it can start to add up. For a state level event I budget about 1k for everything to run the event. That includes entry fuel etc. But we win our class and fight for outright 2WD.

    Have a look at my build thread for an idea about building your own car. Personally I would say buy pre built. It’s easier and cheaper to begin with and it will get you racing. As for what to buy see what’s out there. RWD is loads more fun to drive personally but I’m biased. The only really good Australian rallying forum is www.bmsc.com.au/forums You will find lots of information and help there.

    Also 2T's and the likes into KE70's are a heavily debated topic on rally forums because your car has to be homologated with the engine... Beware!


    "the magic formula for gravel rallying: 1000kg, 300hp and 4 cylinders."

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    a 4wd would be a good start but is a huge increase in running costs over the rwd/fwd platforms.they also need to be driven with maximum commitment to get the same experience as the grip levels while cornering is awsome. I wanted to rally my 4wd laser but like johny said cams is very strict on the safety and driveline side of the cars [for obvious and fair enough reasons] and the cost involved to convert my car to do full events was just stupid. I know a guy building a wrx and he has spent 20k plus on the car not including purchase price and has not done a event yet. I would personaly go for a rwd datto or rolla etc as they can be picked up complete for reasonable money and the running/maintenance costs are less. they are also just as much fun and in the right hands can be driven almost as fast as a 4wd. there is a lot of people driving wrx's evo's etc in the SA state series that dont drive them even close to their potential and a good old datto or the like being driven off its face can bring some good results often going quicker than a awd.
    As for getting into it, do you go to any state rounds or local events? the dates are generally on the cams website and the guys at these events are generally more than willing to answer questions as long as you get them at a time they aren't rushed off their feet. find out what clubs in your area are involved in rallying and get in contact with them. If you are in SA the southern districts car club has there own track down south of the city where they run events and the walkerville all cars club has property and track north of the city where they run events.
    good luck and enjoy

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    Senior Member mack 10's Avatar
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    From personal experience you dont really need to drive the car "off its face" in order to equal or better 4WD stage times. Just keep it smooth, out the tree's and off its roof and you should be sweet


    "the magic formula for gravel rallying: 1000kg, 300hp and 4 cylinders."

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    There are some good websites around with rally info written by and for people who rally. I'd start by looking around some of them. I'm sure there's some pretty affordable rallying that can be done.

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    firstly where abouts are you? do you want to run dirt rallies or be soft and run tar.
    motorkhana and khanacrosses can be run with virtually any car with limited mods mainly relating to safety.

    Johnny I dont mean to be rude and you have probably forgotten more than I know about sprinters and corollas, but it doesnt have to be hard to go rallying.

    you can start in rallies by being an official and learn how rallies work, you can Navigate for someone, (norm is to split the entry fee) so you have no car problems (owner pays bills) join a club and learn who rallies, most people will be glad to take an extra hand to help. I dont have a 4WD I tow my sprinter with a 96 model falcon and have never had problems. The sprinter has never used a tank full of fuel in any rally and it runs on 98, Safety Items are a one off expense until you decide to upgrade (my helmet cost @ $140)

    I run in the dirt and whilst rallying is not cheap (what motorsport is?), and can involve a lot of travel (unless your canberra or south coast based) Bang for buck its hard to beat rallying for what may seem a bit expensive (entries vary from @$250-500) but divide by 2 and you get to do between 80 to 200 km of competitive kilometres. Rally people are the friendliest people I have met and will always offer to lend a hand. In one rally where the Toyota Rally team were running as officials and I broke down, Neal Bates and the Team wandered over to have a chat and see what they could do. Name me one other sport where you can run against the best and then have them come over to chat and offer to help!! build the car once and right its better to miss a rally than pay all fees and break down just after starting. Most rally cars are towed because its very hard to get full rego on them and they can be pigs to drive at normal speeds. Also why waste wear and tear on your car driving sometimes a few hundred kays to compete

    4wd is good but have huge running costs (but as they have been around for a while now you can pick up a good one for $12000-15000), rwd is fun and FWD cars now are getting insanely fast and really easy to drive (just have to look at where the Hyundai Excels are finishing for a fairly stock car) cars ready to go can be bought from @$4000 but dont pop up that often $7000 will get you a reasonable one. Club level rallies dont need racing suits yet.

    CAMS have recently implemented new levels for rallysprints (imagine a short rally stage repeated a few times, then ran in reverse) called level 1 where you dont have to have the full rally licence and the car does not have be log booked or roll caged(Level 2 is logbooked cars and full licences) but still some safety related mods . these events are naturally slower but still get the the adrenalin going and you can still hit some fairly high speeds as they work on a track average.

    Some clubs run introductory rallies and rallysprints. and these can be run in uncaged/non log booked cars
    In rally sprints you DO NOT NEED a navigator (but they help unless you can remember every corner and bump/hump in up to @ 5 km of track) and if you are keen can do your own mechanical work.

    A lot of rallies have what is called central service where you go and do a few stages, come back to a central point (often the start point) service your car so you can do it yourself (or as I have done drive your service/tow/other persons car with fuel and tools in it to the central service point and drive rally car back to start) its not left in the bush and there will always be someone to watch it


    If you join a club they predominately run dirt there will be plenty of people who will help with advice from car setup where not to waste money and the easiest way to do it. clubs can be found on the CAMS website just ring a few in your area and they will tell you what they do and if they dont do it who would be best in your area.

    If you are in the Sydneyish area there is also a club that do their own rallies outside of cams rules and are more relaxed known as AMSAG for more info www.amsag.com.au also www.bmsc.com.au (canberra club mainly involved with rallying) has a lot of information for newbies to rallying. search the website most questions have been asked before.

    the excel class is sponsored by Hyundai where the motor and gearbox are stock but considerable mods are allowed to the rest of the car. their forum is www.excelrally.com.au

    If you near Maitland Pm me I may be looking for a Nav for an upcoming level 1 Rallysprint if I havent sold the sprinter.
    Last edited by ae86rally; 12th March 2010 at 02:38 PM. Reason: spelling error

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    Senior Member Mr Awsome's Avatar
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    as of late i've been tossing up between either getting in to IPRA or rallying.

    but as we only have 1 track here in SA. rallying seams high on the cards.

    hey mike think i could tag along one day when you go rallying? see if its the goods.

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    Rallying is as expensive as you want to make it.

    The above posts by AE86rally and Mike86 sum things up nicely.

    A couple of examples. If I take one of my Corollas out, here's the budget:

    Entry: $200-$600 dependiing on the event.
    Tyres: at least two at the afore said mentioned $200 a pop.
    Fuel: 1 litre per 3km competitive plus 1 litre per 8km transport. 98 Ultimate. Say $80 to $100
    Tow car fuel: say a tank. $120 for the Touareg.

    Now factor in maintenance costs. Gearbox swapped out every ten events. Diff rebuilt/removed/looked at every ten events (staggered so I don't do both at the same time) Suspension comes out every two seasons. (staggered between the two cars, so I don't do them both at the same time.) Rego: 27 on club @ $170 and the 37 on full at $600 ish. Plus insurance, plus panel beating indiscretions.

    The Corolla's cost minimum $1000 each time I take them out. They are labour intensive to keep in good running condition.

    Then there's my (God help me) Hyundai Excel series car. This is the cheapest rally car I've ever owned as far as running costs go.

    The initial build cost $7K and the car is a front runner in the Qld series. Entry fees are the same, however I've now done 3 events on a set of tyres (Dunlops), and while the fronts are well shagged, the rears are near new. Fuel economy is a little better, but where the big win is in maintenance. It needs bugger all. a good Excel series car (better than mine) can be picked up for $6-8K and are by far and away the most cost effective way of going rallying. Spares are abundant, help is available, and the competitors friendly.

    The first thing you should do is contact a nearby club. CAMS NSW office should be able to point you in the direction of a rally orientated club. From there it's up to you.

    It's the best motorsport in the world. It's like a disease, and the only cure is poverty.
    Last edited by Redwarf; 21st March 2010 at 01:16 AM.

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