Welcome to Atlanta

[skit]

I thought this thread section was for people to showcase what they have built.

But good luck with it anyhow.

[slydar]

yeah, Mahle and Wiseco atleast.. what i was saying is, if its an Atlantic engine, then you use Atlantic pistons.. but like you say, its not really an Atlantic engine. which is still cool

anyway, 11k, not possible on stock oil pump or crank, this is proven fact. since you mention atlantic, but dont mention crank, im guessing youve got the billet crank?

the stock oil pump though, is known to fail if revved beyond 9000 often. unless you have something else tricky happening there.. maybe like adapting something slightly cheaper like an after market one meant for a chev' or something, but something is needed for oiling..

maybe a couple of power pulls on a dyno. but not driven at those revs in anger. 11k is really kinda pointless with a 4a in most cases anyway. the engine just isnt efficient up there. maybe with a longer rod. atlantic motors are built for it, cos theyre used in open wheel race cars on long open tracks, so having a higher rev ceiling is an advantage.

revs though still do = power as long as you have air flow (just maybe not as much as something with a more suitable rod ratio) which, really isnt that hard, so 200hp @ 11 is also not that impressive.

the real trick to a 4age is to make that power and more before you go past 9k, negating the need to spend a LOT more money on the engine to make it reliable past those rpm.

well, thats my opinion anyway (actually its not all just opinion)

still, ill be psyced to see some super hot NA 4age get built

[driftke70]

im probably going to clean this crap up unless there is some substance in here

[Gunner]

well Mr Slydar, the standard 20v crank may not like to be revved hard, but what you need to remember is, there is 4a's that are capable of such punishment, as with the oil pump. Also there is process's available, to ensure durability is achieved.

Although I do not have too much information on hand, I have been involved in some 300kw+ 4a's in the past, and I can assure you that the people behind these motor's do not have too much of a clue, just more of a hit and miss affair with these engines, which makes me rather confident.

With the use of some old techniques, and some new ones, some gze parts can handle some real punishment, for example, A good gze crank (crack tested, with a positive result) nitrided, linished and polished, I know for a fact can spin out too 10,500rpm.

As you have stated slydar, oil pumps become an issue at sucha high rpm, with pump gears cracking splitting, and quite literally just falling apart. Luckily I know there are options, but i do need to research this a bit further, but I will say there are parts from much tougher engines that can be machined to suit, as well as the pump housing itself.

The power figure is not really what i am interested in at present but more rpm limit, if i can produce an engine, spinning out to 11,000rpm reliably (which is a hard task) Further improvement in head work, and overall tuning can be made, as there will be a sturdy base for us to build upon.

[Jonny Rochester]

There are two 4AG# cranks:
13401-16010 and
13401-16020

The first one had the smaller conrod journals, and came in the AE86, AE82 and early AW11.

The second one came in the AW11 4A-GZE, late model AW11 4A-GE and GZE, AE92 both GE and GZE, AE101 both GE and GZE, and AE111 blacktop.

So there is no difference between a 20valve crank and a GZE crank.

And there are forged cranks from TRD, just for your interest:
13401-FT001-A (formula Atlantic, TRD USA)
13401-AE801 N2 AE86
13401-AE003 Group A 20v

Mmmmm, I wonder which one you would pick.

Interesting ride. Nice pics.

[Gunner]

i wouldn't pick any, no need for those sorts of costs

[Gunner]

as for pics, they will come, but for now, I will discuss my ride, in my ride thread

[driftke70]

thread cleaned, dont fill it again.

[slydar]

no need to get all "mr slydar"

im interested in what youre doing, and what you base your claims on. because to be honest, they kind fly in the face of convention. not to say such things are not possible. but, its not a new engine either.

im guessing (and its totally a guess) youre basing your claims of a stock crank holding up to 10k+ on what ol' mate with the drag ae82 has done? i dont know if id personally use that as solid reason to think its gonna work that well.

that engine spends what. maybe 4-6 seconds per pass at 9/10 000 rpm? granted it has done a lot of passes, but still, how well do you know these people who spin 4age's that hard? the rigoli's have also done other drag 4ages too, still id really be interested to see how long they really sustain 10 00rpm+ for. those engines are grenades in my book.

with those really big rpm. its has alot to do with harmonics. i just dont think a cast crank has the right properties to be spun that hard, no matter how well its balanced, there are still forces being put on it at that rpm which are much higher than if youre doing 8000. eventually, with enough cycles of that force, the crank is likely to fatigue, and fail.

go for it though. prove me wrong. either way its going to be awesome, or a spectacular failure (i mean that in the nicest way).

[Gunner]

Well to be honest I did work with rigoli's for 2.5 years, and were involved in a few of these hard spun 4a's.

Don't you worry I am well aware of the chance of failure, and with that said, I am not exactly going to build this motor, slap it in a car and go for 11,000rpm, that would be stupid of me, and i don't think the ones that will be helping me would let me do so.

EDIT: I forgot to add for jonny, would you happen to have a gze crank (one from a gze) and another from BT, that you could possibly weigh, or test the hardness of the metals used, would you say that between 1988 and 2000, that these cranks have always been manufactured the same, or atleast with the exact same metals?

Part numbers only state what the parts are, what they fit, not the process of manufacture. Not having a shot dude, as i know you know your shit, but to simply imply i am an idiot, or i don't know what I am talking about, because your parts numbers imply a different story isn't right in my book