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Thread: The Suspension Setup Thread

  1. #31
    Senior Member sr_rolla's Avatar
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    (quote old thread gunner)

    lol, I need to do some research I think, as none of that makes much sense, I understand what's being said just not in depth if you know what i mean.
    Sorry for the noobness, I make things go fast, not turn corners so its all foreign to me, though its probably good for anyone reading it as we're gettin alot of the tricky stuff out there. Anyway back more questions lol.

    I understand tyres, and how important they are, and the effects in terms of sidewall hieght and flex, I've done enough street racing to understand that too little sidewall isn't good, and too much isn't good. Though it wouldn't hurt for someone to explain the good and bad affects.

    So if i was to run the standard style of 86 suspension, and i wanted to run a 16" wheel, what do i need to change, and also if i was to gain the track i want through offset, what needs to be changed for that.

    The reasoning behind wanting the track is, I do plan on makin a fair bit of power, not cause i need it, just cause thats what i do, and i can't help myself lol. And I like the idea of square car (in terms of track and wheel base) I know the sprinter is good, and they are near perfect as you said, but near perfect isn't perfect.

    Thanks heps guys
    Rhys

  2. #32
    Senior Member sr_rolla's Avatar
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    (quote old thread konakid)

    Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou!

    I am also a firm believer in obtaining track mainly from the combination of wheel offset and width instead of uber long control arms or different struts. Standard geometry is good from factory which is what a lot of people don't understand. Its much better to improve on what you have been given with from the factory through the 86 struts than trying to re-engineer a different setup from another car through trial and error. Take one look at every japanese sprinter that comes here or is over there, not one will use non standard struts. All have either stock vented brakes, FC upgrade or something off the shelf.

    sr rolla: Any idea on the weight of the pug/hilux setup compared to stock JDM Vented? I saw on here that the FC setup is only 1kg heavier than JDM, interested to see how it compares.

  3. #33
    Senior Member sr_rolla's Avatar
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    (quote old thread konakid)

    To gain track through offset, all you really need to worry about is how much guard clearance you have on the outer edge of the wheel. Naturally this means either bolt on flares or working the stock metal guards will be required to get some big increases in track. In an 8J wheel, -4 is about the lowest offset that will fit in stock guards.

    The problem with making large amounts of grunt (200rwkw+) in a car like the 86 is that its size (more so the parts) work against it. See, 15" is pretty much the perfect size wheel for fitting the guards and when combined with a quality 195/50 has enough grip for all power levels in N/A 4age form and 4agz/te up to about 200rwkw. Keeping a wheel this size also keeps unsprung weight down, tyre price down, rotational weight down etc, it just works.

    When you start making big numbers (I'm talking 250rwkw) you run into a few problems. First of all is brakes, which is cured by the FC setup or similar fix. Secondly, to use this much grunt your going to need grip, usually more than what a 205/50/15 can deliver so you'll be looking at 16's with 215/45's or the like. I'm guessing you already know that you'll need a big diff to cope with this grunt, and you would definitely want some sort of brake upgrade on the rear. Then you'll need to find an LSD for this diff. Custom tailshaft will be needed obviously and depending on the motor the gearbox may even need to be swapped out for a stronger one. Then you need to make sure the weight balance is good so mounting the motor as far back as possible depending on what you use.

    So there are numerous things that need to be done and a lot of effort to make it all work but it can be done, Medwins sprinter was on the right track as far as big power sprinters go but i don't know how it would have performed in real life.

    So its a lot of work

  4. #34
    Senior Member sr_rolla's Avatar
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    (quote old thread gunner)

    The problem with making large amounts of grunt (200rwkw+) in a car like the 86 is that its size (more so the parts) work against it. See, 15" is pretty much the perfect size wheel for fitting the guards and when combined with a quality 195/50 has enough grip for all power levels in N/A 4age form and 4agz/te up to about 200rwkw. Keeping a wheel this size also keeps unsprung weight down, tyre price down, rotational weight down etc, it just works.

    When you start making big numbers (I'm talking 250rwkw) you run into a few problems. To use this much grunt your going to need grip, usually more than what a 205/50/15 can deliver so you'll be looking at 16's with 215/45's or the like.

    Seriously no offence Kona Kid, but thats all thats really relevant in this thread. It is a suspension thread after all, though i agree with what you have said.
    And if you could explain the weight issues and the effects it has on the suspension a bit more in depth, that may be good for people.

    I would of thought that if you, increase track through wheel offset and width, it would still upset angles. True or false? and why?

  5. #35
    Senior Member sr_rolla's Avatar
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    (quote old thread konakid)

    Sorry, went a bit OT, all good.

    Its best to use a combination of LCA length and width and offset to achieve a larger track as its all about balance.

    Using a 10mm longer control arm for instance with a 8J -10 wheel would be better than a stock arm with 8J -20 for example to get the desired track increase. Keeps the scrub radius in check, Doesn't put as much weight further outboard of the strut and on the stub axle and limits tram lining. The reason i say offset/width, is because using the two you can get the inside of the wheel as close to the strut as is possible to keep the scrub radius low while the outer edge can be much further out than stock to increase track.

    People who use Sigma LCA's, get an extra 30mm from the longer arms then want to run a neg offset wheel, massively increasing the scrub radius. Not to mention that the super long LCA causes other handling issues such as tram lining where the wheels want to follow channels in the road and the car pulls towards ditches and holes when the wheels hit them. Also most often don't increase the rear track to keep it all square and so high speed oversteer scary moments do occur.

    Hope that helps a bit.

  6. #36
    Senior Member sr_rolla's Avatar
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    (quote old thread gunner)

    Thats perfect dude, I knew it would effect somethin was just unsure of what.

    I'm havin a look at a few options tomorrow, will post what i discover.

    Cheers
    Rhys

  7. #37
    Senior Member sr_rolla's Avatar
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    (quote old thread mattyn)

    hey i have a question in relation to track and mismatched track front to rear.

    i have in my possesion a set of rims i was running on my GTiR. the rims are mismatched.
    dimensions as follows,
    2x 15*6.5JJ +38
    2x 15*6.5JJ +45

    all wheels are running a matching set of bridgestone potenza G3's dimiensions: 205*55*15

    i suppose firstly will they fit under JDM trueno sprinter (still in compliance so can't check myself), and what will be the effect of the mismatched track in a rwd, balanced setting (vs the front heavy AWD GTiR)

    cheers for your advice id like to run these tyres and wonder if these wheels will suit.


    matt

  8. #38
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    (quote old thread federal)

    they wont fit....wrong stud pattern...

  9. #39
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    gunbz-r don't assume that a square car is the best way to go, the best ratio is 1.7:1 as in 1 being the track width and 1.7 being the length so for example if the car is 2m wide for example the wheelbase has to be 3.7m long for the best handling. A ae86 has this ratio standard, if you try and make the car more square it will turn in really well and be very stable at slow speeds but be extremely nervous and difficult to control at speed. I would work off a 205/50/15 semi slick to give the the grip you need on a 5x8" rim.

    K onakid: The pug setup is heavier, but, it depends what your after, if you don't have the hp to warrant it then the rx7 setup may be better, however, if you are running bigger wheel loads (more rubber, more brakes etc) then the bigger stub axle of the corona strut makes up for the extra weight and the hilux caliper is extremely rigid and cheap. So i spose its horses for courses really. If i was running a 4A, smaller wheels and didnt need the braking power then i wouldn't run the pug/hilux setup.

    mattyn: run 7mm spacers on the +45 set as a start to bring the front/rear offsets in line. Then use different spacers to get the wheels sitting right in relation to the strut/gaurd. But thats if the stud pattern is right. Or buy the right wheels to suit it

  10. #40
    Senior Member sr_rolla's Avatar
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    (quote old thread gunner)

    I've never heard that about that ratio, makes sense, thanks dude.

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