Grip tips/lessons

[blair]

^ how can using your engine and brakes at the same time to slow you down

be SLOWER then just using your brakes?

fucken lol.

[DX20VT]

It can't.

I know if I miss the gear gate or have a slow down shift,
it stuffs the whole corner as you cant slow enough at the right time,
even though the rear brakes on my car are well up to the task.,

I have done a fair amount of circuit racing, but wouldn't say I'm an expert,
Just my opinion that rev matching or heel+ toe braking is not something that is right up there on the list of things you need to learn,
but in saying that I never got the hang of left foot braking apart from rolling starts either, even though it does hav it's advantages in places.

On a side note, ever tried heel + toe braking in a car with a pedal box and no brake booster?




Seem to have started an interesting discussion here...

[Joel-AE86]

I'm not saying that 'engine braking' makes you brake faster, but it does have its advantages. One being that it reduces heat on your brakes, and in some situations, even with decent brakes this is advantageous to maintain a constant pedal feel and consistent braking application. The other advantage is that is can actually provide grip and balance in the rear as you have a resistance of the engine revs acting on the rear treads (kind of like having more brake bias to the rear).

I think heel+toe braking is a skill worth learning when you start out. It feels sketchy for a while trying to get the feel for both pedals with one foot.

DX20VT: No I've never tried heel+toe with said brake setup, however I used to run SR20DET brakes on my AE86 with a stock booster and master and I had a very soft pedal feel. So much so that I had to change my braking style. I prefer braking with my toes and hitting the accel with my heel, but I used to have to brake with my heel and accel with my toe so I could reach the accel.

[--Redwork--]

to quote old Micky Doohan...

Braking later is awesome... means you get to go fast longer

My only experiance with track racing is at the go cars...
And I think everone finds the right line at go karts very quickly... Mostly cause 9 time out of 10 your on the track with ppl who have done it befor and you follow them..
But I found... and this is somewhat depressing... Going slow is faster...
At the Karts ( kingston ) you can virtually hold it flat the whole time apart from braking at the end of the straight and quick tap of the brake on one of the other tight corners...
When you come to the corners you can just throw it it and it'll slide around and then out the other side you go....

But.. if you slow down a little on the entry you can hold a better line and have a higher exit speed...Making you overall quicker.. Even though you could have done it floored the whole way...

It all comes down to what everyone else has said so far.... BE SMOOTH...
keep the car balanced and flowing and you will be quick...

[Rice86]

SUPER LATE BREAKING TECHNIUQE !!

every corner has a speed limit, and every corner is different, so depends what track/road ur on, different skills are needed, but its always good to learn as much as you can rather then saying heel-toe is useless when i can just use the brakes, if thats ur style then MAD, go for gold, late braking will only be most useful on track then on road, on road braking early gives u better time then braking late...lol if no one has noticed, braking is a top level skill that you'll will most likly never perfect unless ur a actuall driver and thats all you do.. to know when exactly to brake and how much, only experince will tell you how much you really know

[Joel-AE86]

Horses for Courses.

[skit]

I'm a little confused. Your method sounds safe & easiest for learning, but doesn't seem to make sense in racing/track day terms where lap times are important.

If you are not a "late braker", why are you so hard on the brakes?

I can only interpret this as meaning that you brake hard, a long way before the entry point, then release the brake, select a lower gear, then coast in riding the clutch to get a smooth transition in drive - because you are not rev matching - then turning into the corner.

Any way I think about it, rev matching - done correctly - reduces the total time between the beginning of brake application, to the end of getting off the clutch after selecting a lower gear.

It doesn't need to be said, but minimising time spent off the brakes or off the throttle is a key way to improve lap times, among other tips mentioned. Therefore coasting while releasing the clutch slowly, instead of rev matching, takes additional time & is ultimately slower.

Not having a dig at you, just offering my thoughts; I believe heel/toe is a valuable skill. Yes the penalty is sometimes high if you miss shift at the last moment though. If so, trail brake ftw, and grab your lower gear at the next available opportunity. It can make for some uncomfortable moments, though, I agree.

Personally I find rev matching easier with heavier brake pedals than lighter, power assisted brake systems. If the pedal box system you speak of has such a heavy pedal, then I wonder if the cylinder bore combination is not sized appropriately & excessive pedal force is required.

Regarding the statement by someone about using both sides of the "road" equally. I've seen Initial D, own up & confess. This is not the first time I have heard manga downhill racing cartoon speak come up in proper "driving technique" discussions. Can it, please.

[Rice86]

lol its not technique, use the amount of space u got for better line, only idiots drive on the wrong side of the road...

anything can happen, but are less likly to if you know the condition and enivronment before hand and drive to a safe manner..no such thing as safe speeding, but is smart driving

[choonga]

re: people not understanding heel toe... *palm to face*

[ThatsHowWeRoll]

i heel toe because in a race situation you dont want to worry about how your releasing the clutch and compression lock ups etc....a correct rev-match enbales a quick seemless change with a dumping of the clutch and leaves time to concentrate on other things....and it sounds mad.