Grip...who is into it?

[driftke70]

high speed stability has never been a concern, so track has endless benifits,

i havnt found my suspension to be too stiff, end of story. I didnt buy 8 and 6 because thats what i specifically wanted, they came with the coil overs, but through various changes in my car they ARE going to be the right rate.

My car still had roll and was able to transfer, my tyres always gripped when i wanted them to, it wasn't too stiff in general to drive, actually notably comfier to drive than my standard 07 hilux. It was responsive, progressive and versatile for everything i tried. Your car is yours, mine is mine. Only difference is im not telling people how to set up their cars.

[sr_rolla]

Um neither am i, i clearly said in my post and i quote

"WORK SHIT OUT FOR YOURSELVES!! dont do things just coz i say or or anybody else says, do some research, maybe do a little maths and really work out what will work, experiment, stuff with different setting but dont just run what beau yates runs so u can say u have a sick sprinter drifter the same as beau."

I cant understand why you are even in here telling people what works or not, the title clearly states that this is a grip and tarmac racing section, not a drift section, and as your sig clearly says, you have a drift KE70. The fact that you even mentioned using NCRCA's shows me that you dont know as much about this stuff as you say you do, you come in here and in your 1st post you winge about the "jibber Jabber" have a go at samQ's driving. Then in your second and last post you say that a wider track is better, then you say that having more track causes different leverage in the suspension system. Whilst this is partially correct but it has absolutely nothing to do with the spring rate unless you run massive offset wheels, LCA's have nothing to do with the spring rate as the whole strut gets moved out, spring and all, so there is no more leverage on the spring than in a standard track situation.

Also, have u wieghed your motor? do you know 100% for sure that is heaps heavier than a twincam? Do you run semi slicks? If not, than comparing a 400lb spring on a semi slick shod race car to your car with an 8kg spring and a road derived tyre is like comparing chalk and cheese.

Look, u have a drifter, good for u, not my cup of tea but great, i have a trackday car with rego plates, i have no interest in drift and keep my nose way out of any drift related areas. You will not find a post ANYWHERE drift related by me, this is coz i know sweet f a about setting up a drifter and never claimed to know anything on the subject. I keep my nose out of where it does not belong, you should do the same.

[fantapants]

to be fair sr rolla... u have led the cry of 8 and 6 is just plain stupid.

and drift keto does know his shit and no he is not only into drift... he has said many times the car is being built for driving, all kinds of going fast. all he is really pointing out is spring rates are not the be all and end all people are making it out to be.

And he never said nrca are good.... he was refering to the leverage effect extending track has on the spring rates and compression speed.

and i dont usually disagree with u sam, but to say ANY loss of traction is a loss of speed is just very VERY wrong.

[sr_rolla]

I do think 8/6 is stupid, i run a full weight KE70 with semi's and 8/6 is way to stiff to use the stuff ive got, even if i got more track it would still be to much. Yet it is being said (im not just accusing driftke70 here) that running 8/6 with big sway bars, plenty of track and super stretched tyres under a light weight ke/ae is the way to go, its simply not. Ive bitten my tongue on the subject for ages but its been really getting to me of late. Its a shit setup.

Thats not to say that mine is awesome, mine handles like arse atm as a few on here will know, im just saying 8/6 is a shit setup and i have tangable proof that im right on this. Like ive already said, some of the quickest AE86's in the country dont run more than a 400lb spring, they are light weight, have full cages, semi slicks and run on smooth race tracks and even then they only run a 400lb spring when they are at the tightest most demanding circuits with lots of directional change. Then you get a few guys on a forum saying that heavier rate is awesome in a light weight keto/ae with stretched street tyres, little to no bracing and on shitty rough roads. I mean it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out whos the guy whos done the research and who has no idea.

Also, whilst that comment sam made about a car being quickest with no traction loss may be wrong, u want all 4 wheels to slip at once, not just the rear as sam was describing. Snappy oversteer might b fun but its not quick.

[letsgohunting]

I think you'll find that an 8/6 spring ratio will probably suit driftke70s car well enough... It has a full weld in custom cage, runs semi slicks, equal length trailing arms, 3sgte, W box, F series diff and is generally braced to all hell. It's pretty much built to be a track car so there aren't any problems with the stiffer setup. I'm sure he could go softer and get faster times around a track but he's just building it as a do-it-all fun machine. With that level of components in the car a stiffer 8/6 setup should be fine.

I agree that huge track is detrimental to performance though.

[driftke70]

you'll also find that a stretched street tyre has more give than a semi slick and can take a little of the harshness out, as mentioned, my car is built to do everything, i never once mentioned that i liked nrcas merely compared to comparable setups, that would have similar camber and how the moment would change on the spring.

400 pound springs are 7.2kg, in stripped fast race cars, hardly an argument off a 8kg spring in a full bodied e chassis with a wound strut brace.

You say your car is handling poorly at the moment, in comparison to what?

Most track guys like soft springs because the better semis and basically all slicks have a wandering tread effect, when a spring fights a tyre too much it makes the steering doughy as all buggery, but by making the suspension softer than the doughyness of the tyre you can get rid of it a little.

If i was making a full balls on the line drift car to go compete with da id probably even have a little stiffer, maybe 9 and 6.

[Sam-Q]

I didnt explain it very well, I was reffering to the whole initial D "racing" and that oversteering around a corner normally is a pretty slow way to go.

[fantapants]

fair cop then sam drifting is NOT the fastest a car can o.... but loos of traction can be a very quick way to drive at times.

also for those who "dont have anything to do with the drift scene" dont forget for the guys who do this alot, the cars are set to be as grippy as possible. You need the grip for speed. especially here in oz where you are judged on smoke as much as anything, tyre speed equals smoke.

As a point of refernce, i was looking back over some older auto salon mags, with the first of the circuit battle issues.

Ferdz was supposed to drive the s15 but it wasnt sorted yet, so they used his unchanged s13 drift car. His times were strong. within a second of a track evo7 and track only sti.he was also significantly faster han a few of the gtr's and track spec s15's and was within 2 seconds of some very nice track only demo cars, the z32 from unique autosportssouthern motorsports exige.

this highlights something that a lot of people are missing.... the driver is the ultimate factor.

but sr i wasnt havoing a dig at you, just that your post said you werent telling people what to do... but also telling them if the do something you disagree with they are stupid. this is tantamount to the same thing dude

[sr_rolla]

Firstly, aimed at driftke70, my car handles crap in relation to a 70's falcon atm, shocks are absolutley shot and the springs are up the shit (not the rates tho, lets just say never buy kings progressive coilovers)

At Fantapants, i never said that anybody was stupid for running that setup, i said it was a crap setup, and that people should work shit out for themselves instead of getting all there info off the forums. I also dont have any problems with being wrong or disagreed with, i have openly said, i know sfa about drift and cant comment on drift setups. Ive also have plenty of ppl disagree with me on here b4 and we still get along fine. I feel, that from my experiences, and those of friends, that 8/6 is and always will be a crap setup for the street, period. But trying to tell you guys that is like bashing my head against a brick wall. I cant be arsed with this shit any more so im out, have fun.

[fantapants]

hey i didnt mean to badger you.... no need to get precious about it. if you say you are welcome to disagreement then kool. I personally run 8 and 6. i dont have a great deal of experiance. so i cant add too much to the debate right now, other than even when i talk my mrs into driving in the car, she doesnt complain about it being stupid uncomfortable or anything.

and in terms of mountain driving.... i have crap rear tyres and a bad wheel alignment, so springs being too hard to noticabley judge a bit of bounce is the least of my concerns.

not trying to run you out of town man, just trying to add my 5 cents lol