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Thread: 16v Small port VS Ae111. Rwd

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    Default 16v Small port VS Ae111. Rwd


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    Yo fellas,

    Im at the point now where im starting to get things done. Im still 50/50 on what to do with the engine.
    My goal is just over 100rwkw.

    So in saying that will a small port with head work, upgraded valve train kit, 272 or 288 cams with ae111 itbs, full bottom end rebuild with aftermarket pistons and aftermarket comp, and some nicely tuned jap headers make more power then

    A ae111 with 272 or 288 valvetrain kit, aftermarket comp, tuned headers worked head and full rebuild.
    (basically what the above has)

    Are these two similar builds with different engines 5 valve vs 4valve have a noticable difference? Which will be superior, last longer be easier to extract power from, cost less with more power etc.

    Cheers and hopefully i can put this to rest and start building

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    ok, i have a built smallport, with ae111 ITB's, 272 cams, hi-comp pistons, fully balanced etc.
    because i have done a fair bit myself and work done by very good mates it was a lot cheaper (in fact it cost the same as the recondition and mild work i had done originally at reputable engine builder). it will make 100kw possibly a little bit more than that when tuned, no problem.

    i know ant kellam has got 100rwkw from a internally standard silvertop engine, with some cams and decent zorst.

    so a internally standard blacktop will make the power you want. if you build the blacktop it will not be cheap. do not expect much change from about $7-8k.

    advantage of building the motors is, its a brand new motor, with oversized pistons and hi-comp you get a much better torque spread, you will also get a much larger power band IE 3000-9000rpm usually.

    what do you want to do? track warrior? george st crusier? touge champion? drift car?
    once you know what you want, it will make it much easier to work out what you want to do with your engine.
    its no good have a major N/A engine and some chopped king springs, and fucked up supension..

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    both engine sounds good...so whats the hold up of just tossing for head or tail

    i say stay with 16V if ur unsure of what to get

    20V if your a hard |<unt, =]
    dose

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    It takes serious work to get 100rwkw from a 16v but a relatively stock 20v will make that kind of power with aftermarket ecu and extractors and maybe cams.

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    lol xero, its no george street cruiser.
    I have all my sus sorted out and many other little bits to entice its handling.

    Just a little confused as if i had to go itbs on a 16v cost me half the price i can get the 20v for and i just want a good platform.

    Which engine is a better platform?

    Also does vvti still function with cams, ecu and all the rest of it?

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    4v vs 5v is a massive can of worms. You'll never get a solid answer.

    Personally I'd go 16v and do some work on that. Slightly easier dizzy and water setup. Plus for some unknown reason I like worked 16Vs better than a mild 20V.

    Also 20V have VVT (no i) which can work with bigger cams and just needs an auxilliary output from your ECU.

    Hen

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    as axentrik says getting 100kw need some serious work. just whacking on some ITB's wont do it..

    honestly its going to be a toss of the coin.

    i have a built 16v, but i love 20v's just that little bit more. only reason that i have a 16v is the fact it was damn cheap from my mate and once i got a taste for it went to town on it

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    oh adam your so knowledgeable!

    i for some reason would prefer to build up a 16v instead of a 20v even though it will be easier with a 20v.

    i think it comes down to which you prefer and how much coin you have

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    first up its not a good idea to compare dyno readings unless they where done on the same dyno with the same weather with the same setup and within a limited period of time. I have a 101rwkw silvertop 20v but I dont talk about it much because I am sure I could get plus or minus 20kw depending on where I go and how they do it.

    Now moving on; depending on the lift on the intake the vvt will work with 270 degree cams. The exhuast cam is irrelevant in the matter in regard to the VVT. So as I have theorised (and some others also) a good all round combo in cams for a 20v is a 270 degree intake and 280 exhuast. Now while I admit I have virually no experience in such things I would think a modded 16v compared to a modded 20v with those cams would end up well short in mid range power because the lack in VVT. While it wouldnt give you the bragging rights of a higher peak figure it would make a massive difference in how fast the car would end up being in real world use, especially so when combined with the interesting stock ratios that the T50 has.

    With the ecu dont even consider using a stock one with any money spent on the engine. The stock 20v ecu's in my experience can be buggy, unpredictable and severly hold back the power a 20V makes. The way my 20v ran drasticly changed when going to a wolf ecu (dont use that one) and that was with a normal and then later a reco'd stocker

    Do you have a budget and what do you have in mind for your car? What can you do yourself?

    They are both very solid platforms but I personally think for a mild buildup the bang for buck leans towards the 20V even if they can be a pain in the ass to cater for. The blacktop 20V engines like to have they hyraulic tensioner changed with every timing belt and theres debate about the rod strength at extended revs for prolonged periods. This is easly fixed with spool rods which are somewhat cheap, reliable and lighter by a fair way than even the skinny blacktop rods let alone the chunky silvertop rods.
    Last edited by Sam-Q; 4th April 2009 at 12:34 AM.
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    I've dynoed lots of 16v's and 20v's, I personally wouldn't waste my time with a 16v unless you really like them, a 20v kills a 16v everywhere....my daily driver AE111 gets 100kwatw with minor mods, 16v's need alot of work to get to this.....unless you whack a gze in
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