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Thread: The Suspension Setup Thread

  1. #81
    Senior Member sr_rolla's Avatar
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    Firstly, top work KE70Dave, those graphs look very similar to the professional bump steer graphs, u get a gold star

    I think that 1.1mm is a reasonable amount of bump, because if the whole front end is compressed (under brakes maybe) thats a 2.2mm toe out.
    the easiest way to fix it is to do what Simon-AE86 touched on and space out the tierod end. To do this i would piss the tie rod off and use a piece of threaded tube and a rose joint (AJPS sell these) and then run a bolt/rod through the hole that tie rod currently bolts to and space the rose joint out till you have no bump steer. Also, a really acurate way to test for bump steer is to make a bump steer gauge.

    see pics
    [attachment=29777:bump_2.JPG]
    [attachment=29778:bump_gauge_1.JPG]

    to use said bump gauge, take the springs out of the car and raise and lower the car thru its range of travell, this will tell you how much bump you actually have.

    also, KE70Dave, those front knuckles, are they made of aluminium of steel?

    If steel, i'd suggest getting the tierod mounts heated and twisted around to sit the correct way in relation to the tierod or if aluminium, machining the the hole out bigger and at the right angle, then weld in an insert that gives you the strength back. It would be a bit of stuffing around but its safer in the long run.

  2. #82
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    that's an interesting contraption....still can't figure out how it works though...but i can see what its trying to do i think..

    the thing is...now that i've become aware of this apparent bump steer, damnit i can't make it steer on any bumps!!!

    i've gone over speed bumps with only one wheel, and tried to get it to bump steer, ive gone up slanty gutters pretty quick and can't get it to do anything!!!!

    so is it really that much of a problem? (the bump steer that is....the tie rod mount i can see where your coming from...but its been like that for 1.5yrs....soo.....)

    the next thing i'm going to do, is put a wire-tie around my shock absorber piston, and see how far my suspension actually travels under normal driving, and then try it going over bumps.

    the other thing is....the alternative is ae86 stuff....surely there is a little bit of this bump steer in that as well? suspension setup is all about trade offs they say....and no system is perfect.... i'm going to try and track down someone with ae86 stuff and let me at it with a tape measure, see what i can come up with.

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  3. #83
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    hands down one of the best threads DC has ever seen

    side note: too much maths not enough skids

  4. #84
    Senior Member sr_rolla's Avatar
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    lol at GILLY

    Ke70dave: You wont feel it on bumps, the best place to actually feel it is under heavy braking and acceleration, as the front of the car rises and falls the toe will change either in or out makeing the car unstable (see: lowered r32 and later skyline and 300zx's as a good example of shocking bumpsteer).

    The way that interesting contraption works is as the car is raised/lowered thru its travel the front bolt will come away from the wheel during a toe in situation and the oppsite will happen (rear bolt comes away) in a toe out situation. when this happens u will know where in the travel the bump steer is occurring and by how much (the amount of gap between the bolt and the wheel) so u can fix it and test again.

    With the tie rod, i had another idea, get some spare tierods that are a little longer and heat/bend them so the tierod end is in the correct orientation, that should fix the prolem I'm concerned about.

  5. #85
    Senior Member sr_rolla's Avatar
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    Also, I thought i'd put up a few piccies, The first few are of the car with the white underside belong to 1 of the TRD prepared AE86's that raced at bathurst in the 80's (the pics belong to someone on here, i can't remember who but if theres a problem using them let me know and i'll take them down). Alot can be learned fron studying these pics, especially the front end. If you look at the way the castor rod has been attached to the tubular LCA, it can pivot, this is because when the front end is rosejointed there is no longer any give from the bushes. With no give, as the suspension moves up and down or when caster is adjusted, the angle between the the LCA and the castor rod needs to change, otherwise it will try and bend or pre-maturely break rosejoints. Other than this, if u look carefully, the outer spherical bearing (where the ball joint was) has been moved closer to the disk, with this they are trying to address the scrub radius problems that this setup has. The bar with holes in it (red on the rear end photos black on the front) is the sway bar arms. This is kind of like a progression from the older more standard style sway bars to the blade adjustable bars of today. The rear end pics are just a really good example of how to do a rear end properly and the blue setup is a formula (i think) setup that AJPS was selling second hand, this is a very similar setup to the TRD setup but out of the car obviously.
    [attachment=29782:trd_front.jpg]
    [attachment=29783:trd_rear.jpg]
    [attachment=29784:trd_rear_2.jpg]
    [attachment=29785:ajps_front.jpg]
    FIRST POST EDITED, PICS BACK UP.

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