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Thread: Converting a 3sge to RWD

  1. #71
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    On the Gen 3 (and i'll bet it's the same on the rest of the 3s motors too, as the blocks didn't change much) the head oil drains are on the intake side.
    I don't understand how adding a 4th drain to the intake side would have helped as the oil is more likely to pool in the exhaust side of the head.
    In fact, you can see from the outside the large drains cast into the block on the intake side. They are monsters, at least half an inch, probably closer to 15mm ID.

    The beams motors have an external drain on the exhaust side, ie. the opposite side to your extra drain.
    From what i can see, the oil pooling issues can be easily solved by the following (ref gen3)
    1. Mounting engine with a slight (even very little) lean toward the intake side.
    2. Bigger sump to allow for the oil stored in the head
    3. Restricting flow to the head by tapping and inserting a restricter into the head oil journal.

    I'm not sure that the gen3 gasket restricts the flow as a well respected toyota performance engine builder in Melbourne recommends fitting of the restricter in the head on gen 3 motors for high RPM use. This may be in addition to the gasket restriction though.

    I too speak from experience. I'll post some pics of my build tonight.
    It is possible to port and plumb the exhaust side for oil drains. I'll do this if I encounter any problems
    Last edited by af300e; 7th July 2009 at 03:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by af300e View Post
    On the Gen 3 (and i'll bet it's the same on the rest of the 3s motors too, as the blocks didn't change much) the head oil drains are on the intake side.
    I don't understand how addind another drain to the intake side would have helped as the oil is more likely to pool in the exhaust side of the head.

    The beams motors have an external drain on the exhaust side, ie. the opposite side to your extra drain.

    I too speak from experience. I'll post some pics of my build tonight.
    Yeah Fraser Cars in auckland also recommend i fit one to the exhuast side, which I initally planned to do, but I was convinced by a friend who rebuilds head to place it there as it was the lowest point in the head we could actually tap into with out getting to close to the water jacket seemed to work awesome as well

    Also BTW Fraser sell spacer plates that allow you to run the stock 3sgte flywheel and starter its just small plate they machine up thats spaces the starter motor out

    As for the thermo hosuing it was one we had lying around from a Datsun (Ewww Nissan I was a little bit sick in my mouth when fitting it) 180b no idea on the motor but it fitted and worked mint
    Last edited by Justin Holden; 7th July 2009 at 03:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Holden View Post
    Also BTW Fraser sell spacer plates that allow you to run the stock 3sgte flywheel and starter its just small plate they machine up thats spaces the starter motor out
    I made my own

    I used a 2s starter though. Spacing a gen 2 or later starter out enough to pick up the ring gear would have landed me right on top of the oil cooler.

    The gen 1 starter is engine side already and would probably be easier to adapt.

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    Senior Member Anthony's Avatar
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    Your engine builders recommendation can be applied to any engine in the world so it hardly disproves anything.

    The extra oil drain on the intake side can be helpful. think of how thin the oil is at operating temp. its hardly going to "pool up" and refuse to drain because you put the extra drain 3 inches from where it is. the key benefit is the extra volume the drain provides. Obviously not ideal but still worthwhile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
    The extra oil drain on the intake side can be helpful. think of how thin the oil is at operating temp. its hardly going to "pool up" and refuse to drain because you put the extra drain 3 inches from where it is. the key benefit is the extra volume the drain provides. Obviously not ideal but still worthwhile.
    It has 3x15mm drains already. They will flow many times more return oil than the pump can push through a single 3mm delivery into the head.

    A 4th drain on the intake side seems a total waste of time.

    The pooling occurs because when the engine is set upright the oil has to reach a certain level in the EXHAUST side of the head before is spills over to the intake side. The motor sits on a large tilt toward the intake side when it's in east west config through which all the oil supplied to the head drains. Obviously 3 large oil drains on the intake side are enough. Another one is overkill.

    As you mentioned, beams engine, the extra drain is in the exhaust side.

    The head gasket part numbers offered for all generations of 3sgte are the same suggesting there is no extra restriction in the gen 3. Would have to check with a genuine toyota EPC to be sure.
    Last edited by af300e; 7th July 2009 at 11:27 PM.

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    Default gen 2 motor

    i ran a gen 2 motor for 4 years before i went up to the beams motors .and the easy fix is take head off put a oil restricter in the block with a 2mm oil hole ,normaly 6mm dia also i put a dash 10 under the disy cap for drain back just above the water line and also on the exhaust side between no 2 and no 3cylinder where the oil goes under the valve train
    motor never blew up and it made 125kws at back wheels with quads port job and cams

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    you guys are funny.
    78's

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celica RA45 View Post
    i ran a gen 2 motor for 4 years before i went up to the beams motors .and the easy fix is take head off put a oil restricter in the block with a 2mm oil hole ,normaly 6mm dia also i put a dash 10 under the disy cap for drain back just above the water line and also on the exhaust side between no 2 and no 3cylinder where the oil goes under the valve train
    motor never blew up and it made 125kws at back wheels with quads port job and cams
    Why do i have a sense of dejavu. Think this argument was had on the old AE86 forums, and on Toymods, and on the old Toymods forums, and on Twincam.org and PerformanceForums...

    Ohwell, the two that we built had a -10 fitting between the 2nd and 3rd cylinders on the exhaust side of the head. Drained straight to the sump. (one was MiC's car if anyone is old enough to remember it)
    After nuking one engine we wernt taking chances.

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    Justin Holden, by single cam BEAMS do you mean RED TOP BEAMS?? IF so, how do they go? even tho not dual vvt as SXE engine, I imagine it would still be nice engine with 197bhp?
    Hachiroku since 1994

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleRedSpirit View Post
    When i grow up I wanna be just like Uncle Frak Frak.

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    drain shmain, every guy ive heard about thats had problems ran a 2s sump with no work, didnt put enough oil in accounting the fact that the dip stick is going to be completely wrong after the engine is stood up, and the fact that 70% of people dont have a clue what they are doing.

    too many opinions not enough fact in here.
    wheelfriends.wordpress.com

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