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Thread: Tarago Axles into T series housing.

  1. #1
    Veteran starni_boy's Avatar
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    Hi,

    I recently managed to finally find my second Tarago E series axle, and decided to help anyone which wants to upgrade their diff without modifying the housing.

    Reasons for me trying this modification:
    - I don't like the Idea of cutting mounts off one diff and welding them onto another, To make a diff that wasnt meant to be in another car fit. Of course it works, and it is probably cheaper, but I like this idea more.

    - The stud pattern is 4x114.3, which is the stock stud pattern anyway.

    - These axles are much stronger than Zenki T series axles.


    E series on the right, Zenki on the left..


    Cons:
    - E series axles arent the easiest to find cheaply (Took me about 2 months to find some..)
    - Can be quite an expensive modification to do
    - Takes a little time to get done (Diff shop the longest waiting time.)

    Anyways, Here goes:

    The diff housing, which mine is a Zenki Jap T series (Not all T series housings are the same, the JDM AE86 ones are, TA22 and T18 are all different), and allows the bearing of the E series tarago axle to bolt straight in. The E series axles use the exact same bearings as Zenki T series axles.

    Now that I have bolted in my axles, There is now this problem:



    The axles appear to be too long, and will have to be machined shorter. One axle isnt even fully in yet (or properly in, hence the angle) due to me needing to heat up the housing to get the Zenki axles out. This has proven a problem now. What happens when something is heated up? It shrinks to a smaller size. I now have to get the grinding tool on the drill and bore out the bearing part. DO NOT HEAT UP YOUR DIFF HOUSINGS!!!!

    The Zenki diff centre, unfortunately doesn't accommodate for the E series axles, but only just. It is such a close fit.

    So, The way to fix this problem is to get a centre from either a Zenki or Kouki diff, and get the splines bored out and re-cut. This can be quite expensive though, which I havent yet looked into, but my guess will be around $500. While your getting a centre, you might as well go to and LSD centre, which can be a Cusco, OS Giken, TRD or a Kaaz.

    After Getting the centre splines re done, the axles machined shorter, Its time to put your brakes on. My brakes are drums, so here is what you have to do in that regard:

    Get your old axles with your drum backing plates, Get an oxy torch, and lightly heat the seals and bearings. Then get a rubber mallet and hit the bearings off. Once they are off, You can safely remove the drum backing plates without damaging them. Do the same with your E series axles.

    You can then get your drum backing plates, re-spray them, put new cylinders on, new drum shoes on or whatever. Then place them onto your E series axles, then press your bearings and seals back onto the E series Axles. Then bolt the diff housing in with the modified centre in, and then slide in your E series axles and bolt them in. Hook up your brake lines and your handbrake cables to the brackets.

    Throw on your drums, put your wheels on and your good to go. I might have missed a step or two, but thats basically what needs to be done.


    If anyone can correct me in places, please do.

  2. #2
    aaron_drift
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    awesome article.

  3. #3
    Veteran starni_boy's Avatar
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    Cheers mate..

    Pics up soon, probably tomorrow.

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    Veteran slydar's Avatar
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    no offence, but alot of what you posted is a fair bit off.

    not all t series housings are the same. jdm ae86s housings are all the same, in that they are built to accomadate a larger outer wheel bearing.

    t/18/ra40 use a different bearing, and ta22 different again.

    the t18 axle is bearing o.d might be the same, and may work in a jdm housing, but its not really correct.

    t18 and e series tarago/lite ace axles are the same wheel bearing and bearing retainer though yes.

    if youre wanting to try to use the e series axle, youll want the lite ace type as it is closer to the right length.

    also as far as axle size/strength.

    zenki t series are the smallest o.d at the spline. kouki t series are a full 1mm larger o.d at the spline. E series are actually in between, they are actually smaller than jdm t series. this is definate first hand knowlege.

    still the o.d of the e series axle at the spine is large enough to work with a kouki t series lsd, but the spline profile is wrong, being too broad. you need to either widen the grooves in the axle splines, are machine the grooves in the sun/side gears of the lsd mech.

    around $500 is about what i have been quoted too.

    i have set up a t18 housing, with lite ace axles before. the whole idea to be was to try to utilize the more cheaply available kouki centres that arrive here some how in oz that no one can use, so to keep the cost down, i choose to modify the axle spline myself with a grinder as the axles are much cheaper and easier to get ahold of if you stuff one.

    it works, but its pretty rough, and i can't comment on the long term strength, biggo bought the diff and used it in his gze 71.. he did have some related troubles, but didnt manage to break an axle, though he didnt get a chance to do too many ks as the car ended up off the road shortly later for other reasons.

    really, for the stuffing around, unless you get the LSD for free or close to it, its not really worth it i don't think. i don't think it can be said that its "the strongest axle you can get" in fact theres no reason to assume it is stronger that a kouki t series as it is actually .5mm smaller in o.d. having said that, theyre much easier and cheaper to get a hold of when they do break, which is the big plus. by the time you butcher the axle (if thats how you do it) i don't think its gonna be any stronger than a normal zenki t series.

    alot of what ive said in the above paragraph is opinion re strength , but the actual info i supplied i am 100% certain is accurate re axle bearing/spline sizes ect and comes from my direct experience with setting up one of my own t series using a kouki lsd and also close contact with a diff specialist who has done the same once before for another customer of kaizen garage whilst i was working there.





    78's

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (starni_boy @ Jun 11 2008, 05:40 PM) </div>Woah

    Heat makes stuff smaller?

    Since when?

    :ermm:
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    Senior Member Fozz's Avatar
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    good right up

    Slydar: did u use an angle grinder and what was the trouble u mentioned with the axles

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    Veteran starni_boy's Avatar
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (slydar @ Jun 11 2008, 06:52 PM) </div>Noted, Will edit the post tonight sometime. I wasn't sure on the axle bearings and housings on different models, so thanks for clearing that up.

    I also never recall saying that it is "the strongest axle you can get" at all, I just had a skim over and couldn't see it in there.

    The E series axles I have here are noticably Bigger at the spline that Zenki T series axles, The Zenki axles taper down a lot more. Will get a pic for you..

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    I have Slydars setup now.

    Few things: You will need to machine a E series/Liteace axle down, i think it was 10mm from memory. When you widen the splines, ensure the grooves go PAST the end, theres something about the lip inside the sun gears that stops it.

    As stated, T18/E series have same bearings, there were a few other simular models on the box aswell.

    And lastly, Now that i have my license back, My setup is still going strong, We are up to 2000kms on it now and not a problem. Altho the axles are still bent thanks to being on a bloody van!
    85' JDM TA63 GTTR sedan - Godlike
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    Veteran slydar's Avatar
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (starni_boy @ Jun 11 2008, 05:40 PM) </div>that was the comment i was referring too. kouki axles are definitely a larger outside diameter at the spline, which is where they break. the actual individual splines though are narrower, so you might be right with your statement, but i don't think theres enough evidence to back it at this stage.

    also, to be honest, i expect that axle wise, ke70 borgwarner would be the strongest. they are WAY WAY bigger.

    its just the availability of ratios and lsds, thats the problem. commonly it is only the planetary gears that break in the borg, and once welded the borg set up is quite strong, the only problem is no known LSD option.

    Fozz. yes i used a 4.5" $20 super cheap angle grinder, with a combination of 1mm and 1.6mm cut of discs to do the mod.

    i disassembled the lsd and took the sun/side gear out, ground a tiny even amount out of each spline "valley" at a time, and check and re checked.

    it took quite a long time to do the first one. the 2nd one, as it was experimental (and i had the shits with it) i did very fast and much less accurately.

    i planned to note which one went in which side, to kinda determine just how careful you had to be. i will say, the way i did it, the gears are actually a much tighter fit on the axles then any stock set up ive ever dissasembled.

    they look fucking horrible and dodgy though.

    but as Biggo said theyre 2000k's strong now.. so we will see.

    as far as the "troubles" Biggo has about a 1/2mm run out (wheel wobbles about that much) from what i can remember when we were discussing it.

    this he assures me was not present before hand, so it must be down to the axles. honestly i really don't think an inaccuracy in the axle spline will cause this, it may be the axles were damaged before hand. should be noted here he did replace the bearings too, which is the first thing i suggested when he told me about the problem.


    if youre contemplating the mod, be aware, the only real indication you have that it is a sound idea, is my/biggo's experience, and also one other car, which i have no idea of the amount of ks its done/how hard its been driven.

    the car was daz's old car, it was sold recently on here by a subsequent owner. the mod was done by a pro diff shop, by hand using a dremel. the shop in question is not interested in performing the mod again, was a once off favor for daz to get him out of a bind, too time consuming.
    78's

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    Veteran starni_boy's Avatar
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    Pics up...

    Found out that my axles were infact Zenki. I'm a retard, Original post edited.

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