>>HHO Generators for your car? hybrid sprinter give me your thoughts

[Aezion]

Just want some thoughts and opinions on this.

Like the tittle states HHO generators for cars.

-If your only going to post a negative comment, just don't leave a comment at all.


I have been researching HHO fuel cells (dry & wet) and found some really interesting stuff on youtube and all over the internet. A lot of people are starting to make these basic HHO fuel cells and install them on their vehicles, with really good results.
Depending on the mixture and conditions; results do vary in regards to vehicle and engine sizes.

Basic explanation:It is based on simple electrolysis which splits water into molecules of hydrogen and oxygen. It produces free floating molecules of hydrogen and oxygen that both come out as gas.


There are some draw backs like heating issues & storage which there as simple solutions to fixing!
Watch the videos and see for yourself.

My question is:
*How would the 4age handle this (in theory)
*what are your thoughts
*have you heard or seen it done before

p.s hope this is the right section

*Website selling kits

Video links
1#
2#
3#
4# (how to make your own generator)
Added 08/09/11
5#
6#
7# (VVT-i 16v engine)

[Anthony]

It's an interesting idea. Unfortunately it will always take more energy to split the water molecules than you get back from burning its components (which simply remakes water).

It just doesnt add up. In the first video he has a jar which couldn't hold more than a litre of water which he claims needs topping up once a week or so. Say he used the whole jar every day (which would need about 20 standard alternators strapped to your engine to power) thats 1kg of H2O. H is 1, Oxygen 8, this means there is 200grams of Hydrogen reclaimed. Hydrogen has roughly 3 times the energy density of unleaded petrol, so this is like adding 0.7 litres of fuel to your tank that day (since fuel weighs less than water). Since his system is drawing 3.5 amps, it would probably take a month to go through a litre of water, meaning hes adding about 20 mils of "free" petrol per day. Considering that 20 mils prob only took an extra 40mils of petrol burnt to turn the alternator harder to make it, its not that sweet a deal.

If you want to play with a browns gas generator for fun, or to blow stuff up, or to learn some chemistry, go for it. If youre doing it to improve the efficiency of your vehicle, save your money for a plug-in hybrid.

First 3 videos are selling something. Last one is a really nicely engineered cell. No matter how nice your cell is conservation of energy still applies I'm afraid.

[Aezion]

Thanks anthony for your response.
Did you watch all the videos start to finish?
Do you know this from personal experience with HHO fuel cell generators?

The first video doesnt hold a litre of HHO (browns gas) he showing how easy it is to produce it. Using 12v dc and the fuel cell draws roughly 6-30 amps through simple electrolysis and producing the HHO gas.

I'm not surprised people are trying to sell this.
Who wouldn't want a product that saves you money on fuel at the same time helping reduce green house gas, due to the potency of the gas some people have said they got anywhere from 2-12hp HHO gas has an octane of 120? (correct me if I'm wrong)
Its not suppose to totally replace your existing fuel source completely, just increase your km/s.

I will be makinng my own basic HHO fuel cell generator soon and will post and share my results anyhow

keep the opinions and input coming!

[Sam-Q]

I think the question is how much gas do you get for that 30 amps.

[macca1590]

i have been reading alot on this lately and im in the process of collecting parts to make a 6 cell generator, out of a old car batter. anyway i think, and i may just be talking out my ass hear, but to me it seems like adding a bit of hydrogen makes the whole burn process a lot cleaner, and transforms more energy into pushing the piston down rather than heating of the engine and increases octane and also cleans carbon deposits and general crap out of the engine, also you may read on some tests that they get better results out of massive old v8 that have shit house efficiency to start off with, if you were to use the system on a brand new engine the results might not be as much because they are already very efficient.

some very good info, very good designs and very technical too

[SHEPPO3930]

there was a bike in the Dakar Rally that ran a simple set up. he had a tank of water and it was converted into hydrogen (can't remember how exactly) and burnt, helping out the conventional fuel system. it only helped his fuel consumption by a small amount, but it was enough to get him to the end of each stage of the rally without running out of fuel and at the same time doing something "green".

i dont have any details, only saw a short 30sec clip on SBS one night. might be worth looking in to.

[Anthony]

I know it doesnt hold a litre, I was rounding up for simplicity. Basically it takes horsepower to make the hydrogen (turning the loaded alternator), and burning the hydrogen makes horsepower. Where it falls over is it actually takes more horsepower to make than you get back burning it. If this wasn't the case, you could make a machine that generates hydrogen, powered by some of the hyrdogen it makes, and getting the rest for free. This is called perpetual motion, and if it were true, the convincing gentleman in the first video would be charging a lot more than $60 a go.

One possibility for actually making it work would be to have a dedicated alternator for the browns gas generator which is only switched in when youre braking. Basically a KERS system (if you follow F1) using the temporarily dissociated water as the potential energy storage rather than a battery. Even in this case I think the weight of carting the water and generation equipment around would well and truly negate the benefit.

[Skylar]

kinetic energy recovery system - turning the A/C on to slow you down instead of hitting the brakes. Work goes into cooling the cabin down, instead of heating chunks of metal we call brake rotors.

back on topic, yeah, like Anthony said, you need to use it as a KERS for maximum effect. Switch the system on when TPS<1%, rpm>idle and vehicle speed>0. Then you need a reservoir to store it safely with flow control valves so it only flows to supplement a reduced petrol supply(I think, you use the HHO as a combustible gas instead of vaporised petrol, right?). It's getting quite complicated to create an effective system.

[greeneyes]

that's too simplistic in a complex system like an engine burning fuel. You only need to catalyse the burn to gain more energy, as our motors are only using 20% of the theoretical power in the fuel.

I ran water injection for years on an old Skyline and it reduced the fuel consumption. That's without the chemical energy involved in HHO.

Its more like running a diesel ute with LPG added. You still burn the diesel, but it burns much better and you come out on top. That is carefully calculated and shown on their website.

[Anthony]

That's a good point, but it's not a catalyst as it also reacts. I suppose in certain engines with certain inefficiencies the brown's gas may promote a cleaner combustion process. I still refute the benefit when compared to the fuel used to create the gas, as that process itself is terribly inefficient. It's been shown that any slight improvements in petrol mileage are usually down to changes in driver behaviour (they want it to work ).

With the lpg diesel, it's mainly about fuel substitution, you don't really see an overall drop in specific fuel consumption. If you make use of the extra torque provided by the system, your fuel bill will actually go up. The real beauty is replacing x litres of a fuel costing $1.50 a litre with the same (or very slightly less) amount of a new fuel costing $0.70 a litre (or, if you're in a gas field next to a hole running a diesel hyraulic power pack - free! ). I have worked on machines using 150 litres of diesel an hour. So if you can make 30% of that fuel suddenly cost half as much, it's real money.