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Thread: ..20v bogging/spitting

  1. #1
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    Default ..20v bogging/spitting


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    Well
    Now that the engine`s running, another problem occurs

    Car: 1984 EDM AE86 GT
    Engine: AE111 20v 4A-GE with A/T ECU, SQ-E Dizzy reloc, RWD 16v water routing.

    I have oil-flushed the engine relatively well, its better than it was in that respect.

    Idle sounds good enough (My tacho`s off by too much/too little from what I can hear) but when tapping the throttle JDM style it bogs, I also hear pops but since I`m inside the car (I wanna be close to the ignition key at ALL times when the engine`s on) I cant make out if it`s from the front or the back of the engine.

    Pretty sure I got all the Vac stuff right, changed ISCV to make sure it wasnt that, Changed coil+igniter+ECU noise filter to make sure it wasnt that, changed one-way valves between diafram and #4 throttle body to make sure it wasnt that.
    Checked brake booster outtake banjo plugs to make sure they werent drawing any air (What I did was to use 8mm hose, with bolts and hose clamps to plug`em up, then I bent them 180 degrees and ziptied them like that)
    Made sure MAP sensor vac-hose wasnt leaking, And I also found that installing normal one-way valve between it and the intake (Which a lot of people say you should not do since you will get either rich or lean mixture) actually settled idle down a little bit and did not make it as prone to stall as usual, but at the cost of almost always stalling engine on first try (so I guess the mixture is rich)

    The two small vac-nipples at rail (Close to ISCV) has the top one going straight to charcoal canister and the other one`s plugged good as well.

    When I installed timing belt I installed it the same way the engine already had it before, at exactly TDC0 marking, the only thing I`ve tinkered with is distributor timing (While bridging diag on great tip from Matt) a little from center but it doesnt seem to help much (Too much clockwise will result in backfire through ITB`s though)

    I have not touched TPS (Neither does my tweak`d performance wiring harness have a diag-box, just a simple diag plug that can be bridged)

    Maybe I should figure the heck out how to wire up the W to the engine warning light and see if it throws any codes? Pretty sure I connected everything though, and I`m pretty sure it aint the water (For christ sakes I just installed the biggest freaking radiator for a 1,6 I`ve ever seeen, takes me over 10 minutes to get normal water temps even with foot-assisted high idle, how much more greedy can a 20v get )

    Could it be as simple as wrong type of spark-plugs?
    I grounded the 4 ECU brown wires at the vac-rail, maybe thats still not good enough?
    I cant get to behind the engine to ground it there, its so packed back there that you have no idea
    Maybe I can just ground it to the firewall or is that a no-go?

    Maybe I just need to start driving the car asap? Seen several ppl stating the ECU needs some road time to dial in, and honestly I HAVE seen vids of 20v`s running like shaite in comparison to mine and those guys still do drags, rev limiters and clutch kicks sideways as herk with theirs
    Maybe I`m just overthinking it and being a perfectionist here?

    After all, the engine has probs been freaking abused in its original habitat, this might be all I`ll be getting out of it unless I overhaul?

    Heres the vid:



    As always I am immensely grateful for all input/advice, you peeps rule!
    I`m sorry for being a scaredy pantsy-ass, just never dealt with an engine/car combo this delicate before, if I had these kinda problems with my simplistic ta40 wagon, all I had to do was clean the plugs or blow compressed air into the carburettor, then voilà back in business, and if it still kept arsing me I just drove it anyway and it`d fix itself (Simply having a grunty morning and needed some persuasion)
    Last edited by Tore; 15th May 2013 at 12:27 PM.

  • #2
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    Got some pics of the timing marks too, just to prove that I installed the belt the same way the old one was (I never touched the crankshaft when I reinstalled the new belt)






    I also checked the plugs, theyre all looking nice (Nice black color and wet right after a small JDM style throttle-tap round)
    Distributor is at a little more clockwise than mid-point, and runs well enough, at least getting smooth response when pressing the throttle the first 5mm`s before it gets harder to press, but I still get an occasional pop from the front end which indicates ITB backfire, this really does indicate bad timing-belt position on the crank..
    I can see that the number 10 mark on the crank-belt cover is marked with white, could this be what people mean when they say 10 BTDC is the sweet spot?...

    Would like confirmation on this as I`m not ready to experiment and gamble with 3 months salaries just yet
    Last edited by Tore; 16th May 2013 at 06:54 AM.

  • #3
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    That is a fair bit of white smoke out the exhaust... What is the condition of your oil / water like?

    Also did you say your knock sensor connector was damaged?

    For the w light, one side of the globe (small 12v one) straight to ignition power, and the other to the W pin. Think of w being the earth and you are there.
    Ae86 Drivingclub - Toyota AE86 Car Club where AE86 | KE70 | Toyota 86 / GT86 | Subaru BRZ | Scion FRS owners

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    That is a fair bit of white smoke out the exhaust... What is the condition of your oil / water like?

    Also did you say your knock sensor connector was damaged?

    For the w light, one side of the globe (small 12v one) straight to ignition power, and the other to the W pin. Think of w being the earth and you are there.
    We always get smokey exhausts on A and T engine toyota`s here in town, must be water in the gasoline.. I checked oil, nice and brown, checked water, nice clear/light-blue and not sinking.

    Knock sensor connector plastic is gone, metal pin sticking out so I put a Wurth female mini over that.

    Will find the W globe on instrument panel, slam one wire on ignition power and the other on W at ECU then
    Thx a bunch Matt, you`re a life saver!

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    Remember you are looking at the plugs from the wire side... ie hold it up in front of you with the wires facing you to get the correct orientation. Put a timing light on it and let us know if the timing is jumping around all over the place.
    Ae86 Drivingclub - Toyota AE86 Car Club where AE86 | KE70 | Toyota 86 / GT86 | Subaru BRZ | Scion FRS owners

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    Yeah I experienced that early on
    I have the 20v manual and used the ECU terminal reference a lot.

    The wiring harness has a wire sticking out marked W, ready for connecting, I also checked that it goes to the Warning light pin (no.7) at the terminal.

    I managed to source an aftermarket oil pressure sender and gauge here in town and I`m getting 6-7 value at the gauge, which looks to be just about right for the current idle-speed too.

  • #7
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    Progress:


    Now, in Diagnostic mode, the CEL keeps on blinking, started the engine for 2-3 minutes without getting any sort of intervals on the CEL, it just kept on blinking.
    In normal mode theres no blinking after I start the engine.

    So I guess... All is well?
    Last edited by Tore; 17th May 2013 at 01:06 AM.

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    poping and spluttering out the carbs/ITB's... is an indication of lean mixture and retarded timing.
    white smoke is usually an indication of coolant burning in the combustion chamber.
    Which would cause a lean mixure in that cylinder
    which would cause it to seem to run on 3 cylinders.

    run it up, check what ITB its popping from... if its only 1, i reckon you have a broken HG, or cracked the head, maybe even the block.
    Run a compression and leak down test to confirm.

  • #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundee View Post
    poping and spluttering out the carbs/ITB's... is an indication of lean mixture and retarded timing.
    white smoke is usually an indication of coolant burning in the combustion chamber.
    Which would cause a lean mixure in that cylinder
    which would cause it to seem to run on 3 cylinders.

    run it up, check what ITB its popping from... if its only 1, i reckon you have a broken HG, or cracked the head, maybe even the block.
    Run a compression and leak down test to confirm.
    The thing is its not running on one cylinder, the ITB`s starts popping after about 30-60 seconds after adjusting the timing.
    My TA40 has more white smoke coming out of it than my rolla (And has white/grey spark-plugs) and uses NO water or oil.
    Whereas the ae86 has all black plugs, and does not seem to use water or oil either, exhaust smells like gasoline only too.

    The gasoline here has been like that here for a while now

    Oil pressure on the 20v is between 6-7 bars, which is pretty much as good as it gets from what I`m told.
    Another issue I seem to be having is that the distributor wont go all the way and actually hit the tightening bolt, maybe thats where the problem is?

    But you`re right, compression test is the way to go to be SURE, I`ll ask workshop if I can borrow a kit (I think they like me here cuz I dont nag on them to do things for me, I just get the parts then leave ).

    Meanwhile I`ll try more advanced timing to see if that makes a difference, and tighten the bolt hard as ferk, that oughta keep the distributor in place

    Edit: Now that I`m thinking about it, it could be the spark plugs, I`ll try NGK BCPR6ES-11, the ones I have in it now are Bosch Super 7`s.
    Last edited by Tore; 18th May 2013 at 01:06 AM.

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    I put the ground eyelet on the back of the engine head, dont ask me how I managed to do that with the engine in the car and all..

    Anyway, now I barely have the engine running, at around idle (Which is now pretty low and unstable) I hear a low ticking noise (ticking, not knocking)
    I placed an empty fuel can behind the exhaust and fired it up, it`s definitely getting a rich mixture! A buddy who came by yesterday also noted that when I do throttle a little, I do get normal black gasoline smoke.

    ITB backfire has ceased to exist (So thats a good thing I guess) but it wont rev above around 1500 (On the tacho that is), I`m getting bogging and exhaust spitting/bangs.
    Almost like this poor bloke but I think I have lower idle speed:
    Last edited by Tore; 19th May 2013 at 03:23 AM.

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