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Thread: 4age 16v blueport issues

  1. #31
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    Alright, the ECU was previously checked, the first thing my brother and me looked for was fried capacitors, of which we found none.
    As I mentioned I put the ECU back in and there was no difference.

    So I tried another thing, I fully charged the battery again over the night, but this time I disconnected the alternator.
    VoilĂ#!

    Diagnostics mode works too, so I managed to dial the ignition timing, she revs perfect, but backfires when going down on the revs because the alternator is not giving the needed 13.7v of juice for the EFI system.
    Always been having charging troubles with this car, so thats why I put the 20v alternator in in the first place, now that too is an issue apparently, what is it with these things?

    Next up, put the old 16v alternator back in and give her another go, if I cant get her charging perfectly, plain and simple I will have to get a new alternator!

  2. #32
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    Well, it`s been a while, but the problem was not solved that easily, the charging issue was fixed, but on the test drive the engine stopped again (No knocking sounds etc, it just plain stopped) thankfully in downhill not far away from home, so managed to roll back home!

    Since then, I`ve done a lot of things but she wont start again The starter cranks the engine but the engine wont fire up.
    1) Replaced Igniter with a brand new one, no go.
    2) Replaced ECU with a 60 day warranty, function tested, used condition, of the exact same serial number as the one I already have, no go.
    2) Tried a bunch of coils, no go.
    3) Cleaned throttle body and intake, no go.
    4) Checked all wires running out from ECU to TPS, Map, Ignition, Injectors and the few sensors I could reach, as well as plug leads (While attached to dizzy cap and plugs) and inspected dizzy cap and rotor, they all check out fine.
    5) Taken Distributor out again, and made sure no slack in the distributor axle, made sure the sensor and trigger wheel was spaced correctly (no adjustment needed) and made sure the marks were all alligned (which they were) as well as installed correctly with crank+cams in TDC, again no change from status quo.
    6) Made new engine block and engine head earths (New cables, new clamps, cleaned earth points on both engine block, head and chassis and firewall), again, no change.

    Intermittently also checked timing belt alignment and tension out of pure habit (it checks out every time!) and also made sure for the 20th time that the crank pulley keyway is fine (which it is).

    I`ve had another crack at putting ECU in diagnostic mode, not a single blink on the test lamp.
    Checked Injectors getting power (which they do, but earth does not come on), checked ECU gets power from relay (which it does) as well as constant power from battery (which it does).

    Had another 5-6 rounds on google, yahoo and hotbot for problems related to getting a 4AGE to start, but either symptoms dont match, engines/harness/generation etc dont match, and the few relevant issues that remain I have already ruled out a thousand times over.

    .. Talk about getting more than I bargained for
    Last edited by Tore; 10th October 2015 at 02:28 AM.

  3. #33
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    Lets step back to the basics..

    1. Do you have spark?
    2. Have you got fuel pressure?
    3. Has it got air?
    4. Is the catalytic converter blocked?

    Once you know what is missing from above, concentrate on that area.
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  4. #34
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    Ahoy again Matt
    As always, thanks so much for chiming in

    Have been through the basics more than I can count, but will start answering you as concise as I can:

    1. Have lost spark also. >this I also noted when engine would not start at all several times before (but was before I swapped for used igniter, new igniter and between 8 different coils so I thought nothing of it at the time), injectors get power but no ground so no fuel to cylinders other than what the perfectly working cold start injector gives them via the intake (and yes have also tried to start with it disconnected countless times and changed it 4 times), also changed to brand new correctly rated plugs and leads 3 times AND changed rotor+cap brand new from Toyota (And inspected freshly, almost no loss in efficiency with stretched wires with plugs and cap on each end).
    2. Fuel pressure should be adequate, have been testing between 2 fuel pumps within the parameters of this motor, which for 4AGE 16v Bluetop is around 5-7 Bars and 90-120 LPH , fuel filter brand new, lines brand new, all is well with fuel pressure, its just that this fuel does not find itself INTO the cylinders
    3. If you mean intake then yes, also removed air filter semi-permamently to be sure (and inspected air filter to be sure no dots from it has broken off to block inside runners), pulls air like a grand taijitsu master as far as I`m concerned
    4. This is Early Bigtop Bluetop MAP EDM (Nearly same as Japanese as far as I`m told) with no catalyctic converter and no o2 sensor even from factory, designed on purpose without both.
    Last edited by Tore; 10th October 2015 at 09:44 AM.

  5. #35
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    Ignore the other components for now and focus on the ignition side of things.

    Your first problem must be with one of the following if there is no spark.

    Wiring, Dizzy, Igniter, Ecu, Leads

    Start with the simple to check items.

    1. What condition is your dizzy cap in? Any cracks / broken bits. In the center of the cap is the primary pole , has that worn down over time?
    2. What condition is the dizzy wiring in at the dizzy?



    The base of the dizzy connector it is common for the wires to break over time.

    3. Is the earths on the factory loom bolted to the inlet manifold
    4. Power to the ecu , if you have checked this already then it should be ok.
    5. Is the igniter secured tight to the chassis? The igniter casing is the earth for the igniter.
    6. When ignition is on does the check engine light on the dash come on?

    If you can, get your ECU and run it on another car to rule that out as being the problem. If the ecu won't go into diagnostic mode, generally there is a problem with it. When you bridge the connectors effectively you earth the TE pin on the ecu. You could splice into that wire and earth it to see if the check engine light flashes.

    I hope this helps somewhat.
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  6. #36
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    When you switch on the ignition power, can you hear the fuel pump?
    Does the fuel pump prime then switch off (may not apply to bigport).
    Else does it prime when the starter is first activated?

    It was running fine.
    You left it for a year.
    Unlikely timing (belt or static) changed when it was sitting (unless of course it was fiddled with during that time).
    Fuel ages rapidly and having a pump submerged for that period of time (depending whether it was new in the first place) can be detrimental to it's life.

    Check contacts on fuel pump, fuel pump relay, and condition of the pump
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  7. #37
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    If igniter gets no earth, it makes sense for the injectors not to fire also!
    So I had a go at your checklist to make sure:

    1. Dizzy cap is brand new, no cracks, the points just fine, the pole also.
    2. Dizzy wiring both inside dizzy, outside dizzy, and on harness side is just fine, no stripped wires (from tugging, etc) as shown in your picture
    3. Earth`s on Factory loom is fine, and I also filed the clamp, peeled off the usual green corrosion on the wires there, then I heated it up with a soldering iron and added a little bit of tin to extract impurities in the leads, then I used soldering tin extractor, then added new soldering tin, the clamp is now shiny, I also filed clean the mounting point on the intake AND the bolt that holds the clamp to the intake.
    4. ECU definitely gets power
    5. I had another go here, not just by filing coil mounting points on chassis, I actually removed the coil from the chassis, then I sort of put the coil mount in the steel wire that (temporarily) holds the (newly acquired 2.0 Carina) radiator to the front end (Theres good earth there on my TA40, and this is just temporarily to test), then I took the igniter off the coil bracket and noticed some rust and peeling material on the surface that the igniter is held onto, I filed a lot of that rust and peeling material off and re-attached the igniter.
    6. This is a 1978 TA40 Carina that never came with EFI in OEM form, so though the dashboard has slots for more lamps, there is no CEL there, I`ve been using test lamp (but never got error codes with diagnostics bridged)


    After all this, I had another go, and guess what happened on first try:



    As you`ve proven with style Matt, it never hurts going through the basics because they are almost ALWAYS the reason for issues such as these!
    It remains to be seen if it will keep running (I had it working before too only to conk out on a test drive) but at least it`s started for the first time since May, and this time I`ve noticed no backfires or misfires
    I`ll keep at it, find a new place to mount the coil, and keep you all posted on progress (Maybe make a thread for this car alone), and yet again, thank you all so much for chiming in

    Oh, and Slimer86, though the engine appears to be running now, I`ll answer you all the same
    Yes I do hear the fuel pump, but I dont have a COR (as this is a 4AGE swapped TA40 wagon from the late 70`s), so with a simple 12v Relay fuel pump always goes on with ignition on (but I`ve been meaning to get a COR and tidy things up so it looks more clean and stock).
    It was running fine, I left it with new fuel in the tank before I left home for a month (not a year ).
    I`ve also since emptied the fuel tank and added new fuel

    The high pressure fuel pump is brand new, the timing belt I swapped before I left home (Gates Powergrip) as it was better than that.. Queens or something like that (not a brand, if I can find the name of it, that I would recommend, as its longer than stock and flexes lot more).

    Oh and I know the car looks like shaite, inside and outside, because I`ve been welding too much rust, and trying to fill dents etc, after 40 years of use on pothole and salted roads, but she is as mechanically sound as can be!
    I`ve taken care of the wheel housings and arches (which were gone) but rear quarters are "flopped" (left side quarter is just bondo, and I`m surprised the rear gate is still on the car) and so forth, so I`m working on all that.
    Of course, being filled with all my tools because of all the work I`ve been doing on it doesnt help either
    What you`re seeing around my fuel setup is a half-way finished box to keep it all isolated in the interest of passing inspections once she`s in good enough shape again.
    Lots to do, LED signal lights for front fenders and bumper, straighten out front bumper bracket (after a minor mishap), straighten out fenders, weld the rear quarters, pull out or fill in dents etc, but despite appearances she`s perfectly solid (nice and stiff shell, new wheel bearings, freshly built AE86 Diff brake, new brakes all round, T3 steering arms etc).
    Last edited by Tore; 10th October 2015 at 11:53 PM.

  8. #38
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    Correct if the dizzy / igniter isn't sending a signal to the ecu than the ecu wouldn't be sending the earth to the injectors either.

    Glad we could help you out in getting the car running and i'm sure you've learnt a few things along the way. To me it doesn't matter what the car looks like or if it is finished or not, but more that someone out there is saving a 4age powered car from being junked.
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  9. #39
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    I would never junk it

    But, I`m constantly running into a weird phenomenom.

    Firstly I grinded (or however its spelled) the coil mounting points completely clean as well, then I attached the coil to the chassis as usual.

    But when I`m adjusting ignition timing, the timing lamp increasingly does not blink, and it appears to happen when the motor gets up to core temp, when it was still cold the lamp was blinking like crazy (since the motor is then at higher revs), in the end
    I also started the AE86 20v and tested the timing lamp on that, it`s the same thing when idle rpm settles down, whereas with cold motor it goes "blinkblinklinklinkinkinkink" and when its warm it goes "................................................. ...........blink.................................. .................................................. ......blink....................................... ........." but engine still revs perfectly, I can drive the car around with no issues and the plug lead and cap etc etc is still good, is this why ignition has to be timed only with a cold motor?
    Last edited by Tore; 11th October 2015 at 04:27 AM.

  10. #40
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    I can time my motor when warm.

    Thinking it is either a "weak" spark or the timing light not picking up the signal. How close to the exhaust is the coil?
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