ke70 hyraulic clutch conversion with mods only

[Sam-Q]

as we all know people are killing each other to get the last ae71 pedal boxes and I am looking into making a jig up that lets me convert whats already there on a KE70. I would like to know if anyone has ever done this? I assume people have looked at it and gave up. I am a bit more determined than the average person as I would be looking at it on the basis of doing 10 at once. I could possibly even thining about the metal lines for the firewall made up. Either way I am likely to have the braided lines made up and sold off the shelf soon too.

[sonsta]

yeh i saw this done on that green 12a 70 in NZ. i did find pics of how he did it but i cant remeber where

[Sam-Q]

well thats a start,

I guessing an exchange conversion would be sought after if I could pull it off.

[GOODY]

I had a mate do my hydraulic conversion on my car and I'm pretty sure he used the standard ke70 pedal assembly aswell as a S13 clutch master cylinder. I will try and get some pics up for ya.

[kewagon]

ive been welding a tab to the side of the stock ke70 pedal, putting a bit of plate against the fire wall so it doesnt flex and using t18 m/c, works ok unless you dont get the m/c dead straight and it slogs the seals out buggers the m/c

[Sam-Q]

thanks for the info guys, pretty much confirms what I have been thinking. Now why a T18 or an S13 master instead of an ae71 or ae86?

[Golberg]

T18 MC is the same as the AE71 & AE86 variety.

This is how its done courtesy of motorFIX:
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.motorfix.jp%2Fparts%2Fcpbk%2Fcp bk.htm&sl=ja&tl=en&history_state0=

[GOODY]

thanks for the info guys, pretty much confirms what I have been thinking. Now why a T18 or an S13 master instead of an ae71 or ae86?

I already had the s13 master from the front-cut so that's why I used it :)

[Sam-Q]

thanks Goldberg, as for the motorfix one I hear its a ke70 pedal box with an ae86 clutch assembly welded on

Goody: any idea on the bore diameter? I look forward to those pics

[GOODY]

Goody: any idea on the bore diameter? I look forward to those pics

Na sorry mate no idea, I'll try and get some pics this arvo.

[Sam-Q]

yeah that would be good but no rush, I need time to pull mine out and I had no idea how much of a prick of a job it is.

[ke70dave]

hey sam, you thought of just going and raiding an old celica at the wreckers and stealing the hydraulic clutch/pedal box part? the ae86 has a seperate section for the clutch, so theres no doubt that there are other cars with the same? ra60/ra40 etc?

then all you have to do is cut off the cable clutch part on the ke70 box, and weld on the box from the celica? (same idea as motor fix, but with parts that arent as rare/expensive)

this is what i was gonna do, but then an ae71 box came up relatively cheap, and i thought stuff it and put it in. still wasnt the easiest job....

[Hen may possibly be a nut]

According to the motorfix page, you need to make an "Original Kuratchipedaruburaketto"

Love the translation.

[Javal]

Hey Sam:

Although this is definitely something to look into, keep in mind the KE70 pedalboxes are supermotherfuckinghomo when compared to an AE86 or TE72 or even AE71, in regards to pedal placement and spacing.

I'd honestly rather mod a celica pedalbox to fit rather than mod a KE70 pedalbox to do hydraulic.

[Sam-Q]

ke70dave: yeah I seriously considered it but apart from how shit a job it is to pull one of these out every time and me needing a constant supply of them its the fact that I would have to spend something in the region of $45 at the wrecker to just chop it up, quite a price to add on.

Hen: Hmmmm Kuratchipedaruburaketto

Javal: how would you like the pedal placement? that can be modded also.

Anyway I pulled my pedal box out of my wagon today and compared it to a T18 one. It looks like I can do it with some creative thinking and also mounting the master 25mm lower on the firewall. I cant see a problem with this, can anyone else?

[Javal]

Well, the KE70 pedals are very, very close together, so if you have massive feet like me (or even average size non-jdm feet), any attempt to mash one pedal usually results the mashing of multiple pedals.

In summary, further apart.

[Golberg]

Anyway I pulled my pedal box out of my wagon today and compared it to a T18 one. It looks like I can do it with some creative thinking and also mounting the master 25mm lower on the firewall. I cant see a problem with this, can anyone else?

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=2008

[Sam-Q]

yeah seen that one.

I have been told that having the clutch master 25mm will cause problems with some owners with SR engines in there. I will look into what it takes to raise the pivot as well then.

[Sam-Q]

well it looks like this can be done and I think I will go ahead with offering the conversion to people.

As a rough guide I chopped the section out where the pivot is, then reweld it further apart from the brake and higher than before. A new flange will need to be made and welded on and I also will need to mod the pedal itself to allow for the linkage pivot. Unless I hit some unexpected hurdles from here on I should be able to offer this service for $110+ GST

I made a jig to hold it all in the right place, I am finding it to be an interesting job so far.

[ke_70]

id buy one, 2 mabey even.

[FAST EDDIE]

sammy having the clutch master lower for an sr conversion is better!!!, i just used a ke70 pedalbox to make a hydraulic clutch setup only thing is that its inside the car lol!

[FAST EDDIE]

havent looked at the alignment of the pedal but would this work sam? the pedal is thick as fk and would hold up!!! its similar to the way i built mine, ive fked around with offsett leverage and havent had anything fail yet

[Sam-Q]

ke 70: stay tuned I will post on here how things work out. So far I have sucessfully managed to chop the pedal box, reweld it and test it. Next on the list is the pedal modifications to support the pushrod with the right alignment. If everything works out on my end then the way it would happen is you take your pedal box out, take the brake pedal and clutch pedal off and then mail the pedal box with just the clutch pedal to me and I mail it back modded. I also likely will take the time to supply a super thin aluminium template with every conversion so people know where cut with full instructions

Dave: he is right I measured it and there is roughly 11mm less gap between the pedals between the T18 pedal box that I used as a template and the KE70 one. Oh and thanks, I think if this all works out then this should in theory encourage a whole lot more conversions out there. To help things even further I have a bunch of 4age compatable stainless braided clutch lines on the way that I will have available. I am all for making things simpler for everyone.

Javal you have your wish, the KE70 pedals end up being as equally spaced apart as the T18 set. Hows the T18 feel for you?

Eddie: I was under the impression from another forum member than for people using the S13 based SR20 that the inlet manifold comes close to the master as it is let alone with it being lower. I could in theory supply both options but it would mean I would need to modify my jig to make it compatable. With your concept I though of something simular but I cant do it. The reason its not possible is because the master would be so far offset that it would be right in the way and thats not including the fact that I would very quickly run out of metal on the firewall thats flat. With the pedal you could change the plastic pivot bushes with some sintered bronze bushes and then brace the pedal a bit with another layer of metal, heaps of room for it. Do you have a pic of your conversion of this internal system.

[sundee]

the 86 pedal box has sick pedal position, ive put it into my 70, but it doesnt have the provision to mount the steering column.
so what im going to embark on for myself, not mass production sam, its ok im not going to weed away your business.. hehe

all im going to do is make a plate up to weld onto the 86 pedal assembly so that it will mount up under the dash and also have provison to mount the steering column.

i agree with AJPS.. the 70 or even the 71 pedal position are no where near as good as the ae86. which is one of the main reasons i want to use the 86 pedal box.

[Javal]

Yeah, the TE72 Pedalbox is BETTER, but AE86 is the best of the bunch.

[Sam-Q]

yeah fair enough, you could do what motorfix do and weld the ae86 pedal asembly to the ke70 pedal box.

But wouldnt it be easier to just mod the pedal itself? I would be happy to bend/chop/weld any pedal to put it in any position they like. I will measure up the ae86 pedal distance and post the result of all three on here.

[FAST EDDIE]

had a look under the dash and yeah cant do what i was sujjesting so heres the next one, get a longer pedal so u can have a better pivot point/throwout point fot the clutch and make a mount for it off the pedalbox, wouldnt be that hard!

[shift_rook]

what i love about this is the fact normal ae71 pedalbox prices would also end up comin down so cheaper conversions for everyone,

[FAST EDDIE]

why not get an ae71 pedalbox as id say the brake pedal would have the same position jig it, box the clutch ont he ke box then bend up a ae71 pedal??? theres pics in my build thread of my setup sam

[shift_rook]

aw yeah btw eddie, lol at paint drawing:D

[DX20VT]

If your having trouble with master cylinders, I used ST171 Corona master cylinder when I converted my AE85 from cable clutch to Hydraulic clutch,
and it fitted into the std AE86 place fine.

[Sam-Q]

eddie: I have used the T18 pedal box as a jig and I have moved the pedal as far away as I can whist still clearing the steering column at the base. Due to the way the pedal clears the coloumn on the right hand side I hit the limit very quick on how far it could be moved. That and the fact I didnt want to kill someones mother to try and get a genuine ae71 item. I am pretty right with the pivots and all that. With my interesting jig the top pivot is moved to exactly the same point as the T18 pivot and same goes for the clutch fork pivot. I will look into the options of modding the pedal position with a welder at the bottom end soon and see what I can do. I would be happy to offer any additional services to people. I will have a closer look at that part of your worklog.

shift_rook: I imagine I am going to destory the market if I pull this off. I understand supply and demand for which I dont condemn anyone who is selling a $250 pedal box but enough is enough. I want to fix this for good and even go to the trouble of getting a few pedal boxes spare and pre-modded so when one is sent in a modded one is sent off straight away. I am also looking into getting the flange plates for the clutch master profile cut to increase accuracy and potentially reduce costs even further for people. I would love to be able to offer these for under $100 but we will see how things work out and I hit any unexpected problems yet. I am even thinking of in addition to the custom clutch lines I will stock soon to also supply a metal clutch line thats coiled up and can be put on the firewall and bent by hand into place, that way another part needed off an ae71/ae86 is no longer needed.

DX20VT: thanks so that means so far that ae86/ae71/t18 and this ST171 are all directly interchangable.

[Sam-Q]

forgot to post: tomorrow I will start to measure and make the flange for the clutch master and possibly weld it on.

[shift_rook]

can i buy shares?

[Sam-Q]

hehehhe, no can do as right now I am poor too!

[shift_rook]

i can buy shaes then:D

[KE70]

Braided clutch lines are a good idea, I got one made up for my conversion. Pretty expensive but worth it. You will have people buying them if you made them up for a good price.

I had the metal line from an AE71 but somehow it didn't want to work.

The problem was that I had cut the ends off the metal line to get the braided line made up, so you will have to make some kind of custom ends, with your skills it shouldn't be too hard, lol

[Matt-AE86]

According to the motorfix page, you need to make an "Original Kuratchipedaruburaketto"

Love the translation.

CA-RUCHEE PEDA-ROO BOO-RAKET-TO !! OH'KAYYYYY! YES YES YES!!

I've always thought of mounting it lower than the oem position. drilling a hole into the ke70 pedal below the pivot point so it becomes a push and mounting the master cylinder on the firewall at a lower positon. obviously you would want to brace the firewall/master cylinder/pedal all in one if you want no movement.

[Sam-Q]

Braided clutch lines are a good idea, I got one made up for my conversion. Pretty expensive but worth it. You will have people buying them if you made them up for a good price.

I had the metal line from an AE71 but somehow it didn't want to work.

The problem was that I had cut the ends off the metal line to get the braided line made up, so you will have to make some kind of custom ends, with your skills it shouldn't be too hard, lol

well I wil have them in about a week and I will offer them for $80+post inc GST, How is that? They look really good too.

I see no reason why you had the chop the end off? these lines fit straight to the existing line. What does have to go though is the metal bracket that holds the end in place. I will have a pic soon enough.

Matt-AE86: the theory is sound but the reason I didnt want to go in that direction is I wanted something directly interchangable with the ae71 pedal box. So lets say someone drilled the holes in the lower position and then wanted to fit quad throttles down the track he would be stuffed as its a one way trip and he would not be able to move it without some welding or something dodgy.

There may also be an issue with having enough room for the customised pedal and the steering colomn.

[GOODY]

Sorry it took me so long but better late than never right?:DD

[Sam-Q]

excellent job Goody! looks really well done.

ok I hope the admins dont mind me making this post:

now lots of news, bar a few welds and one reinforced pannel I have finished, I have put the modded pedal box in my car temporarily as a test run and it fits great. I will now offer this service for $120 inc GST + post.

http://www.rollaclub.com/board/?showtopic=33710 (Pedal box mods)


Now clutch to brake pedal distances:

ke70 stock: 54mm
T18: 65mm
AE86 68mm

however the ae86 has a more triangle shaped set of pedals that go from 60 to 76mm, 68mm is the mid point. After I mod the KE70 pedal box it ends up having the same spacing as the T18 one but I can mod the pad itself to be further apart on request.

Lastly my clutch lines turned up:

http://www.rollaclub.com/board/?showtopic=33681 (4age compatable clutch lines)

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/5/2/22317.jpg

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/5/2/22318.jpg

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/5/2/22319.jpg

[worked]

are these still available?

[Sam-Q]

no, had a complete lack of interest

[70rolla]

what about upon order this is gold sam

[Sam-Q]

sorry can you rephrase that?

[fantapants]

can u build him one if he orders it :)

[70rolla]

Yer haha and I was saying the idea is gold, good,cool etc lol

[Sam-Q]

sorry no can do

[worked]

i see people everyday wanting hyd pedlaboxes man surely there is enough to get 10 people keen
at 150 each i'd be keen, fuck i'd nearly buy 2

[Sam-Q]

well I offered at $150 and I didnt get a single person.

[worked]

i'd rather give my money to you to fund more cool shit you build rather than some dude wrecking a car
how about if we do a group buy style thing so you have definate interest would you do it then??

[Sam-Q]

possibly, but not for a long while.

I would do it do that the clutch slave sits lower than the ae71 mounting, something I should of done originally