Swaybars

[GOODY]

I've had a search around and found some useful info on here but can anyone give me some advice on what they've experienced first hand?

I currently have NO rear swaybar at all (ke70/hilux diff) due to having a 3" exhaust that had no room for the bar to go on when the new diff was put in.
But I'm now planning on moving the exhaust around so I can run one on there and thinking of throwing a front bar on aswell.

What sort of size's front/rear should I be going for? And what have people been paying lately new for whiteline non-adjustables?

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but do us ke70 owners need to use a 86 rear bar due to whiteline not making them? The only difference being the wrong size bushes?

[ROLL3R]

Size depends on what sort of driving you are setting up the car for.

[.ady]

chuck in a vn rear sway bar really tight fit about 19mm? makes a huge difference really stiff. really good and cheap

[GOODY]

Car will be used for daily driving and drift track days.


chuck in a vn rear sway bar really tight fit about 19mm? makes a huge difference really stiff. really good and cheap

...

[resol]

swaybars win. there is no two ways about it. there make the car handle sooooooooooooo much better, even with soft springs they noticable kill bodyroll.

i would grab some adjustable ones, that way you can change the setup according to your car, your driving style and can change them if you mix things up down the line.

pm me if you want more info.

-dan

[GOODY]

Thanks mate, pm sent :)
Is there such a thing as going too thick? And I've heard of the whiteline front adjustable bars fouling on struts in ke/ae's??

[Grant #2]

Too thick reduced performance! There is an upper limit as the sway bar starts to lift the inside wheel. Inside wheel has much less effect on overall grip, but race cars normally have very thin sway bars, and very high spring rates, because of this and to reduce brake dive.

Definitely don't want too large on the rear, it will pick up the inside wheel and reduce acceleration out of a turn. first hand experience on that last note =(

[ROLL3R]

Too thick/stiff up front will cause understeer (depending on setup of course) and too thick/stiff at rear will cause oversteer (again depending on setup, tyre size (stagger). Whiteline provide front and rear sway bars (rear ae86 into ae71/ke70 with different bushes) I run the non adjustable type though 2 weeks after purchasing these they bought out the adjustable items .... I would suggest using the adjustable type as what Dan (resol) said as they are handy for different/changing driving styles. It basically all boils down to your personal driving style.
oh by the way dont purchase the whiteline "adjustable" panhard rod, as its not "on car" adjustable which is a pain in the ass, The AJPS panhard rod would be a better option as its "on car" adjustable.

[resol]

Thanks mate, pm sent :)
Is there such a thing as going too thick? And I've heard of the whiteline front adjustable bars fouling on struts in ke/ae's??

the principal is "stiffest end brakes traction first" this also applies to spring rate, although slight difference.

its not about how stiff the bar is, rather how stiff it is compared to the other. if the front is too stiff compared to the rear your car will understeer. if the rear is too stiff compared to the front, then your car will oversteer.

i would rather run stiffer sway bars and softer springs, expecially if its street driven. crappy aussie roads :shout:

its all personal preference, hence why i suggested adjustable ones. so you can find the level of stiffnes you like.

-dan

[greeneyes]

I'm with Reso- the roads will ruin any car with hard suspension..

Anyway, I paid $15 or something similar for a Celica one, the last of the RWDs. (there might even be another one at Great Western now I think about it!) It is some 33% stiffer than the stock KE70 rear one. Bolts straight in too!

Settles the rear nicely without being too stiff.

Remember, lots of oversteer that is great fun at low & medium speeds becomes extremely frightening when it appears unexpectedly at high speeds!! You will have to work up to a balance that you enjoy.

[Konakid]

swaybars are one of the best mods you can do to your car, if you dont have one id get one in the rear asap.

make the car so much more fun to drive and much more predictable.

[Grant #2]

Do you think the rear Celica sway bar will bolt up to an ae86? Might be a cheap alternative to an aftermarket rear bar.

[greeneyes]

It went straight into the KE70, so I expect it will fit the AE86.

I used the Celica bushes as its 1/3 thicker again.

here's the article-

http://www.rollaclub.com/board/?showtopic=33950

[awang]

so what if the car is strictly for street daily driven car

is it worth it investing on this aftermarket sway bar?

sorry not tend to hijack the thread, just wanted to gain knowlege since you guys actually using one and experienced this first hands

[GOODY]

Thanks for all the help guys, I actually seen that writeup about the RA60 swaybars but I couldn't find one when I was at the wreckers last..
Adjustable sound like the way to go even if I only get that on the front and pick up a ra60 bar if I can find one. Or if I can get a good deal somewhere then they will both be adjustable :)

Can anyone confirm anything about the front whiteline adjustables fouling on the struts??

Also just for reference my setup is listed below.

Front: HSD sleeve kit, 86 struts, 7kg springs, trd yellows, xt130 lcas, 86 pwr steering arms, whiteline strut brace

Rear: Hilux diff, adjustable panhard, excel g shocks (VL wagon?), cut falcon springs, NO sway bar, traction brackets, adjustable lower arms

[GOODY]

Double post

[resol]

as far as the whiteline bars hitting the struts havnt had any issues, its more a relationship of the LCA to the strut then anythign else that would foul.

where abouts are you located?

if its on the cheap, then a thicker rear bar will increase the tendancy to oversteer. however i like a balanced car. so i have both, the rear is as tight as it will go and the front is one step back. this is so that at the limit (depending on tyres etc) the car will oversteer, IMO a 'safer' way to lose grip.

i would ditch the ford springs, they are way too firm for a rolla, even with a hilux diff under it. 7kg front and 5kg rear would be a better match. this is all my opinion though :)

pm sent regarding whiteline bars.


-dan

[Oly AE86]

I had problems with my front calipers hitting the Whiteline Adjustable Front Swaybar, but that was with RX7 4 Piston Calipers. You don't mention brakes so I am assuming STD or JDM.

I might have had some rubbing between strut and swaybar when the car was jacked up, and the wheels drooped to full extension, but when on the ground would correct and not be an issue.

I have since changed from the Whiteline Adjustable front to a CMR Hollow non-adjustable item. Mainly due to the caliper issue, but I also don't like the whiteline adjustable stuff much, it is not very well designed.

[Skylar]

Solid anti-roll bars are dead weight. and whiteline's old bushed endlinks on their adjustable ARB's suck.

[Tim.duncan]

i had a "upgraded" sway bar on the rear (not sure how big) and the car was stepping out at the top of my gears, which threw the hills just scared me and stopped me from driving quicker. i removed the sway bar and now im much quicker around corners. there is quite a fare bit of body role now though.

if you want it to slide a bigger sway bar will help this, from my experiance

[marvis]

I wouldn't bother with front.

[Robo86]

maybe stiffer rear springs and a 18mm rear swaybar and itl be wayyy better :)

[GOODY]

I'm starting to think the same thing aswell :) Even If I go with a RA60 swaybar for now and see how that goes before going out and spending $150+ on an adjustable rear.
Because even that it going to be a massive improvement from having nothing on there currently.
5kg springs sound good for the rear?

[ke_70]

i run a 24mm front with falcon kings and 6kg springs with stock swaybar for the rear

incredible understeer
i was thinking an 18mm rear bar would balance things up a bit.
i really dont want to get rid of the front bar either

also i thought selby swaybars that ajps sell now are suppose to be better than whiteline

[resol]

i run a 24mm front with falcon kings and 6kg springs with stock swaybar for the rear

incredible understeer
i was thinking an 18mm rear bar would balance things up a bit.
i really dont want to get rid of the front bar either

also i thought selby swaybars that ajps sell now are suppose to be better than whiteline

could have told you that set-up would be a bad idea....as i stated earlier "stiffest end breaks traction 1st"

selby bars may possibly be better then whiteline, they are more $$ also. you get what you pay for. cant say i have had any real problems with the whiteline stuff at all.

also a note on diameter. it doesnt mean shit. the stiffness of the bar comes from what its made from 1st, THEN the diameter. so just because you have a "18mm" sway bar doesnt mean it will be good eoungh to balance things out.

after swapping several different springs, shocks, LCA, etc etc in and out of my car i can say learn from other advice who have done all the hard work before, do your own research on top of that, and buy something thats adjustable so that you can change it slightly without replacing it.

saves you much cashola.

-dan

[LittleRedSpirit]

I had problems with my front calipers hitting the Whiteline Adjustable Front Swaybar, but that was with RX7 4 Piston Calipers. You don't mention brakes so I am assuming STD or JDM.

I might have had some rubbing between strut and swaybar when the car was jacked up, and the wheels drooped to full extension, but when on the ground would correct and not be an issue.

I have since changed from the Whiteline Adjustable front to a CMR Hollow non-adjustable item. Mainly due to the caliper issue, but I also don't like the whiteline adjustable stuff much, it is not very well designed.

Well I hope the swaybar you sold me fits, Oliver. You knew all this /\/\ and still sold it to me without a word of warning? Im not too happy. I have 4 piston brakes too.

Not cool, mang. Not cool.

[DR86TY]

Im running 27mm front 20mm rear adjustable selby sway bars.

It was the single most effective bang for your buck upgrade i have done.

If your worried about clearing your exhaust id be calling up selby sway bars as they will make you a custom bar for your car to what ever size you need. May sting a bit on the pocket but to date it was the best investment i made with my 86

[GOODY]

I did have a quick look at Selbys but atm they're a bit more than I'm willing to pay, plus it's cheaper for me to chop my exhaust and modify that then to get a custom bar made up but thanks for the suggestion anyway :)

[DR86TY]

Haha fair enough.

Do what ever you can to get adjustable tho, if your planning on taking it to the track you will be playing around to find the best setting so its worth the extra $50 to get an adjustable bar.

[Rice86]

Im running 27mm front 20mm rear adjustable selby sway bars.

It was the single most effective bang for your buck upgrade i have done.

If your worried about clearing your exhaust id be calling up selby sway bars as they will make you a custom bar for your car to what ever size you need. May sting a bit on the pocket but to date it was the best investment i made with my 86

whats your suspension specs?..

springs, shocks, etc

[ke_70]

so will a rear bar even things up abit?

[yoshimitsu9]

Do you think the rear Celica sway bar will bolt up to an ae86? Might be a cheap alternative to an aftermarket rear bar.

ra60 is the same as a jdm ae86

so its not as bigger upgrade as you might think. its only just noticably better than a standard sway bar

[stouty]

I have a T-18 and use it for hillclimbs and Supersprints. I had 18mm rear and found i didnt have any movment im my rear end and would pick up the inside wheel on tight corners so i removed it and its so much better.

Now run no rear swaybar, 24mm whiteline front non adjustable but i am going to swap back to standard 21mm as i have a little understeer. I think it will be awsome i run 7kg front 5kg rear.

[stouty]

I have a T-18 and use it for hillclimbs and Supersprints. I had 18mm rear and found i didnt have any movment im my rear end and would pick up the inside wheel on tight corners so i removed it and its so much better.

Now run no rear swaybar, 24mm whiteline front non adjustable but i am going to swap back to standard 21mm as i have a little understeer. I think it will be awsome i run 7kg front 5kg rear.

[greeneyes]

Yep, the next A60 Celica in line at Great Western wreckers in Orange still has its sway bars. If anyone wants it I can get the rear and mail it somewhere, or if you're going to the Bathurst 1000 this weekend we are just down the road...

[Grant #2]

I just found out TRD rear sway bar is the same as USDM rear sway bar =(

[resol]

so will a rear bar even things up abit?

it will certainly help.

stouty: if you were lifting the rear wheel i would be suggesting that you dont have enough negative travel in the rear. sway bars/track increase would be better mods for hill climb then stiff springs. what shocks are you running, and how low is it?

and of course by removing the rear sway abr the front has become the stiffest end and now the car understeers. i'd chuck the rear bar back in and rethink the shocks perhaps.

**captive springs are good, but springs that are too captive are known as preloaded. which actually reduces the negative travel and increase that 'bounce' the car gets under braking or on bumpy surfaces. which means they handle like shit. preload is used to adjust the negative travel (sag) of a car and thats all.


-dan

[Skylar]

put the stock rear anti-roll bar back in. maybe. I'd just leave it off.

[Tim.duncan]

dont forget when putting your sway bars in that with the car on the ground there is no "bind" as in the sway bar is not set to high or low it should be set at a height that it is free to just sit there.

i read it.... in a book

[stouty]

I have TRD 8 way adjustable green shocks in. Guard sits about 10mm above tyre. So its low but not over the top. I actualy like the way the rear of the car feels without the rear swaybar in.
Can you suggest some shocks that will suit better as im looking at changing them and the rear spring rate.

[resol]

the TRD green may be fine just depends how long they are, and what setting you run them on. adj them all the way soft and go for a drive, take note of how the car handles. then adjust it all the way firm and drive again. which ever setting felt best start there, and adjust 1 setting at a time then going for a drive to see what it feels like. stop when it feels just right.

in my rolla a 6/4kg setup was pretty awesom for hills and such, i prefer my car to drive more balanced then over the top oversteer.


-dan

[DR86TY]

whats your suspension specs?..

springs, shocks, etc

Front: 27mm selby bar, 4 way adjustable
AJPS coilover kit with cusco camber tops
8KG springs
Rear: AJPS 200mm 6kg springs with kyb shocks i think
20mm selby bar, 4 way adjustable

Its stiff but not to stiff, really good for the track, very tail happy.
And still driveable on the road as a daily.

[Grant #2]

Are only Tanabe bars hollow?

What is the ideal sway bar size front and rear (solid bars I guess) for a car with 6.5kg/4.7kg F/R , RCA's, using fast road tires (not R-compounds)?

Any advice?

[resol]

Are only Tanabe bars hollow?

What is the ideal sway bar size front and rear (solid bars I guess) for a car with 6.5kg/4.7kg F/R , RCA's, using fast road tires (not R-compounds)?

Any advice?

have you been reading at all?


BUY ADJUSTABLE ONES, BECAUSE EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT AND HAS DIFFERENT DRIVING STYLES


-dan

[Skylar]

Largus are hollow too.

[Grant #2]

Any other input on a good size for that set up? Adjustable are very expensive in the states. Probably not going to happen. Thanks for being polite about it though!

[ke70dave]

Any other input on a good size for that set up? Adjustable are very expensive in the states. Probably not going to happen. Thanks for being polite about it though!

if you cant get adjustable i think your only other way is to try one and see how it goes.

or find someone who has a simliar setup to you and have a drive.

a setup that someone has might be good for them, but when you drive it it might be terrible.

adjustable isnt that much more than fixed? only a few extra holes?

btw did anyone see the adjustable swaybar that they showed on v8 super cars yesterday? with the rotating blade to adjust the stiffness? VERY cool.

if anyone is interested heres a pic.

http://www.racefabinc.com/images/racers5.jpg

you can see the in-car adjustment mechanism (via cable on that spinning thing), that spins the blade making the system stiffer.

[boost+k]

i just brought a whiteline adjustable 20mm?? rear bar to put in my ke70 with hilux diff and it doesn't fit! the way they have bent it means it won't fit on such a big diff, so i found a factory 16mm? jdm ae86 one and it fits mint

and the best way i can describe the differance is that the rear end feels much more connected, and does what i tell it, and when you change direction suddenly its far easyier to catch


the fact one uses rounded bends while the whitline one uses very sharp bends

[GOODY]

i just brought a whiteline adjustable 20mm?? rear bar to put in my ke70 with hilux diff and it doesn't fit! the way they have bent it means it won't fit on such a big diff, so i found a factory 16mm? jdm ae86 one and it fits mint

and the best way i can describe the differance is that the rear end feels much more connected, and does what i tell it, and when you change direction suddenly its far easyier to catch


the fact one uses rounded bends while the whitline one uses very sharp bends

I'm in the process of putting swaybar mounts on my diff and I think I'm going to have the same problem as you.. Looks like I'll either have to get one custom made or see how a RA60/JDM 86 bar goes.

[boost+k]

if you find one that fits i'd be keen as to hear about it, i made mine 3 way adjustable (because its in a wagon and the factory mounting points weren't there) and have been playing with the settings lately and they give a good amount of adjustment but i think with a 18-20mm bar i would have the perfect range

[shift_rook]

swaybars are only there to finetune the balance after spring selection, no one ever seems to realise thise and i'm sure everyone will ignore my comment to or try and prove me wrong

[Tim.duncan]

btw did anyone see the adjustable swaybar that they showed on v8 super cars yesterday? with the rotating blade to adjust the stiffness? VERY cool.

yeah i watched that, very basic but effective. i thought it was really cool as well!

[shift_rook]

yeah blade bars are sweet i had one in my go kart

[resol]

swaybars are only there to finetune the balance after spring selection, no one ever seems to realise thise and i'm sure everyone will ignore my comment to or try and prove me wrong

no no, your correct. you buy the springs that give you correct travel, ride, etc. then adj the sway bar to match the spring/shock setup you have.


you used to race karts?


-dan

[john84ie]

i just perchased a ke70..it has a new tanabe 24mm swaybar in front.the swaybar only sits about 10mm from the crossmember and over any bumps it hits it.anyone have this prolem?
car has front- AJPS coilovers with axle braces.
8kg king springs
koni adjustable shocks
cusco camber tops.
just jap strut brace.
big sway bar. (24mm)
ke70 lcas
ae86 power steering arms