how to get max lock with ae86 powersteering

[hachi_dk]

Car - ae86

motor - 20v ST

use - daily/track

problem - want more lock (and more responsive handling)

occurs/started when - factory amount of lock was just not enough

personal situation - need lots of lock

I'd like some help on how to get lots of steering lock (and better control in general) without having to get rid of my powersteering.

what are the parts i need?
extra lock tie rod ends?
longer LCA's?
RCA?
camberplates?

thx in advance.
Fil.

*PS* if your going to say, "just get rid of your powersteering and go manual rack + pw/s arms + lock spacer etc... etc...." dont bother as i am well aware of such a set up

[fantapants]

aside from lock spacers i dont think there is much you can do without risking damage to the powerstearing bits. i might be wrong though :)

[hachi_dk]

looked into lock spacers, but the only one i could find was AJPS which does not suit pws racks, only manual racks

[Sam-Q]

Jonny's rack ends may work, why dont the manual lock spacers work? any ideas?

[marvis]

Why do you want to run power steering on such a light car?

[fantapants]

girl arms maybe?

even my mrs has no trouble throwing mine around a car park with modified s13 stuff and 16x8.

with the old powerstearing arms and manual rack it was almost one arm parking :)

[hachi_dk]

Jonny's rack ends may work, why dont the manual lock spacers work? any ideas?

not sure to be honest, asked AJPS and they said that they wont fit.
already ordered johnnys rack ends and they suit both manual and pw/s, so if that suits both then why doesnt the spacer? im not sure.


Why do you want to run power steering on such a light car?

came with powersteering so i might aswell use it

[.ady]

sorry for the thread high jack fil but ra60 rack ends are longer then the standard 86 ones hence giving more lock....but do they fit the 86? i think they do jst need someone to confirm it

[fantapants]

your only reason for keeping it is because its already there????

if you really want improvements, piss it off and use a manual rack with the correct rack mount. "may as well use it" doesnt improve your ability to drift :)

[Golberg]

AE86 power steering rocks.

For everybody that has never driven an AE86 with power steering, you have no right to comment on what its like.

And I don't see why it would decrease ones ability to drift either.

[marvis]

RA60 will fit. Although, I think you are looking at it wrong, It need to be longer IN the rack... Not just longer overall. You will most likely find they are the same :)


your only reason for keeping it is because its already there????

if you really want improvements, piss it off and use a manual rack with the correct rack mount. "may as well use it" doesnt improve your ability to drift :)

I agree.

[.ady]

RA60 will fit. Although, I think you are looking at it wrong, It need to be longer IN the rack... Not just longer overall. You will most likely find they are the same :)


well my setup up is... buddyparts or ajps lock spacer(dno which one i have), power steering arms and stock 86 rack ends....i need to replace my rack ends and i can get brand new ra60s ones cheap, so i thought might as well its jst if they fit or not and whether it gives me more lock or not is bonus?

[Delazy]

already ordered johnnys rack ends and they suit both manual and pw/s, so if that suits both then why doesnt the spacer? im not sure.


yeh? best of luck...im still waiting on mine and its been well over 2 months now...i know the blokes a busy bloke and im in no rush for them...but just be aware :)

[Sam-Q]

yeh? best of luck...im still waiting on mine and its been well over 2 months now...i know the blokes a busy bloke and im in no rush for them...but just be aware :)

he seems to find time to put his stuff on ebay though...

[stuartgze]

these should do the trick mate t3 extra lock steering arms. if you put them on the inner hole you will get more lock. and you wont be turning your rack any further. so it wont over stress the power steering system. It will be slightly heavier though but not enough to worry about. and you can sell your ps arms and with the way the dollar is they are as cheap as chips.

http://www.technotoytuning.com/productdetail.php?p=789

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/8/2/0/20536.jpg

[lo_rolla]

I "unpower" steeringed my hachi. Yet to drive it, but I got the full AJPS set up in there and the lock is awesome.

[hachi_dk]

AE86 power steering rocks.

For everybody that has never driven an AE86 with power steering, you have no right to comment on what its like.

And I don't see why it would decrease ones ability to drift either.

agreed.

cheers guys for reading the *PS* in the first post and telling me about manual racks etc...

[hachi_dk]

these should do the trick mate t3 extra lock steering arms. if you put them on the inner hole you will get more lock. and you wont be turning your rack any further. so it wont over stress the power steering system. It will be slightly heavier though but not enough to worry about. and you can sell your ps arms and with the way the dollar is they are as cheap as chips.

http://www.technotoytuning.com/productdetail.php?p=789

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/8/2/0/20536.jpg

looks good, how exactly do they improve lock though? anyone care to explain?

[fantapants]

AE86 power steering rocks.

For everybody that has never driven an AE86 with power steering, you have no right to comment on what its like.

And I don't see why it would decrease ones ability to drift either.

sorry, was more a comment on the assumption that he is trying to increase lock to improve his drifting. He is at a disadvantage in how easy it is to gain lock on the manual rack. No comment on how good pwr stearing is or isnt :)

if you dont understand how the t3 arms will improve your lock you need to do more research to be able to get the results your after.

Its the same situation as the pwr stearing arms on manual rack. The arm is shorter so the arc is smaller. So for the same rack input, the arc will travel closer to the lcam therefor more lock. It will, i think, still increase the load at the stearing wheel though.

[hachi_dk]

sorry, was more a comment on the assumption that he is trying to increase lock to improve his drifting. He is at a disadvantage in how easy it is to gain lock on the manual rack. No comment on how good pwr stearing is or isnt :)

if you dont understand how the t3 arms will improve your lock you need to do more research to be able to get the results your after.

Its the same situation as the pwr stearing arms on manual rack. The arm is shorter so the arc is smaller. So for the same rack input, the arc will travel closer to the lcam therefor more lock. It will, i think, still increase the load at the stearing wheel though.

ahh ok well put.
couldnt tell from the pic until i looked at it closely.


also, anyone ever tried twin lock spacers on their manual 86 rack.
so thats a lock spacer on each side?
just a thought, surely someones thought of it before.
Fil

[Skylar]

Dual lock spacer shouldn't do anything. In theory you should max out rack travel by using one lock spacer and running two would just increase your bump steer.

Running a bolt on type lock spacer might overextend the rack or whatever making the rack travel beyond the seals or something. You can run slip on type lock spacers though.

Only way to get more lock is from cut and welded steering arms.

[stuartgze]

ahh ok well put.
couldnt tell from the pic until i looked at it closely.


also, anyone ever tried twin lock spacers on their manual 86 rack.
so thats a lock spacer on each side?
just a thought, surely someones thought of it before.
Fil

don't waste your time with lock spacer on a pwr rack. i had one on my manual rack but i took it out when changed to the T3 arms and i have all the lock i can use before my wheels hit the body rails.

[hachi_dk]

ok, so the shorter the steering arm, the more lock you will get?

sounds like im going for t3 arms + johnny's extra lock rack ends.
hmmm...

[shift_rook]

there's a guy in melbourne who can cut and shut your knuckles professionally for about 120 i think

[hachi_dk]

good man.
pm me details

[shift_rook]

0421 427 898

jake's his name, anyone else interested i'm sure he's happy to cut and shut your knuckles

[ikus]

don't waste your time with lock spacer on a pwr rack. i had one on my manual rack but i took it out when changed to the T3 arms and i have all the lock i can use before my wheels hit the body rails.

what else do run besides the T3 arms mate, if you dont mind me asking?

[boost+k]

you have to be very carefull running lots of lock with short arms, first off your gonna come into issues hitting the chassis rail if you havent got longer lower arms or massive neg offset wheels

and more importantly you should move your rack forward on the crossmember because when you get to the point that your rack arm is dead straight you no longer have any control over the arm and it can flop around at that point, im sure you guys must have seen some silvias with the wheel at full lock and it seems to be flapping about, this is because they have even shorter arms, but the rack is slightly further forward on crossmember, and they have added even more lock and no moved the rack.
this is one of the main reasons not to use s13 hubs in a ke70, because everyone overlooks the position of the rack

last time i looked at a p/s rack the most you'll get out of was around 6mm a side before you blow out the seals, 6mm is heaps with short p/s arms!!!!

[hachi_dk]

i'll be using well negatived dished wheels + shorter pw/s arms + extra lock tie rod ends + sigma LCAs + t3 camberplates + factory castor rods with extra thread cut into them.

not quite sure how to move the rack forward though...

edit* castor rod.
my bad

[ae86]

imo standard ae86 ps arms and a lock spacer is enough for sliding action, also ur prob best off measureing offset and width of ur wrong wheels cause as boosted+k said, u may end up touching ur rail, if u do, some cars have a tab that u just touch never looked if 86 has it but people shave that down so u get about 30mm more space which normally saves you without shitting urself, as for sigma lcas id prefer xt130 but thats your choice, and if u cut and shut, make sure you have alot of confidence in the person who does the job cause if they snap ur car wont come out of it too well

[ae86]

plus if ur gna cut n shut them, may aswell get stock 86 arms n do it, sell ur ps arms for same price they charge u for cutting and rewelding them.

[stuartgze]

what else do run besides the T3 arms mate, if you dont mind me asking?

ajps coilovers, corona arms, ajps motor sport tie rod ends, and 15x8 -4 superlights

I'm thinking of running a 25mm spacer on the front so i can use the inner hole on the steering arms without hitting the body. Or i might just get adjustable control arms.

[boost+k]

"factory tie rods with extra thread cut into them" why? planning on running big toe-out or something?

to move the rack you need to chop you crossmember up and move the back section forward and then weld it up again

sounds like all you need to do is remove your tierods and messure how much travel your rack can handle (about 6mm a side from memory) less abit to make sure you dont hit the limit then get some 4.5-5mm slip on tie-rod spacers and you should have enough lock

that or go manual rack and get mad lock :P

[Dan_J]

can just try to rethread the ajps lock spacers so they fit on a ps rack ?

[hachi_dk]

thought about it but i doubt i'd need it with the set up im going for...

t3 arms, johnnys extra lock tie rods, sigma or xt130 LCA's (undecided), t3 camberplates, AJPS 40mm RCA's, coilies, factory castor rods with extra thread cut into them.

i should be able to get all the lock i need with the shorter "arm setting" on the t3 arms without over extending the rack and bursting seals.

should have all the bits and pieces within a week to get it all together.
will report how it goes then.
Fil.

[stuartgze]

sounds good mate. i would test it with the t3 arms before you put in the extra lock tie rod ends just to see how much lock you get. take a couple of comparison shot of each if you can.

[blair]

what part of the tie rod is extened/different

to increase lock?

in my head all i can see it doing is increasing toe out?

cause if it cant get pulled into the rack then how is that giving you more lock?

ahhhhhhh!

[hachi_dk]

yer im not quite sure to be honest blair.
all i know is a smart bloke like johnny made em and said their for extra lock.
so ill take his word until i figure it out

[fantapants]

the big bit on the tie rod has a step machined into it to allow it to travel further into the stearing rack

[Skylar]

The other solution to moving-the-rack-forward is to move the tie rod end attachment point further out. Get it done when you're getting the arms shortened and all good.

[boost+k]

The other solution to moving-the-rack-forward is to move the tie rod end attachment point further out. Get it done when you're getting the arms shortened and all good.

yea you can drop your acherman angle... but not recomended for street cars

[evil86]

pic of the t3 knuckle is different to the one on the site. the one on the site only has one hole or is it wrong pic

[hachi_dk]

yer thats the old design. the new ones have the two holes for steering ratio and are the ones in the pic on the first page

[Skylar]

yea you can drop your acherman angle... but not recomended for street cars

It's the same thing as moving the rack forward. Both will result in an increase in ackerman.

[Skylar]

whoops, ignore what I said. rack forward increases ackerman, steering points out decreases ackerman.

[stuartgze]

have you got any parts in yet

[xsoarerx]

sorry for the thread high jack fil but ra60 rack ends are longer then the standard 86 ones hence giving more lock....but do they fit the 86? i think they do jst need someone to confirm it

if this helps ya, ive run an AJPS lock spacer on my MA61 supra, basically anything with a 14x1.5 socket will fit.

[hachi_dk]

have you got any parts in yet

still awaiting sigma LCA's, johnny's tie rods, t3 pwr/s arms.

[hachi_dk]

got some GJ sigma LCA's, they are about 340mm-350mm.
got them from the wreckair thinking that they were GE sigma LCA's which are 330mm. ahh well, gonna have to wind out the camberplates to run minimum camber as even that would be about -3; which is roughly what i was hoping for.
anyway, the stock ae86 LCA's are about 290mm, so i will have gained about an extra 100mm of track on the front end.
SO. what rack ends should i be using with jonnys extra lock tie rods so that they actually reach the t3 arms.

pics of some stuff i've gotten:
the camberplates
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/0/5/4/27962.jpg

ae86 LCA's and the GJ simga LCA's... (didnt really pay attention that clearly at the wreckairs and assumed it said GE sigma.. lol)
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/0/5/4/27963.jpg

and the t3 PW/S arms. cant wait to get this all together with the inner hole on the arms.
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/0/5/4/27824.jpg

will post pics of the lock but first... what tie rod ends???

[sundee]

just so u know the T3 arms have standard Ackerman angle

[hachi_dk]

yep no worries ;)

[auto351]

if this helps ya, ive run an AJPS lock spacer on my MA61 supra, basically anything with a 14x1.5 socket will fit.

Please note the MA61 Rack Ends will not fit the AE86 Rack,
The ball joints for the MA61 are about 53mm while the AE86 (which are reported at the same as AE71 KE70) ball joint are 47mm, so it will screw into the end of the rack BUT it will not clear the rack housing so you will have a reduced lock to lock at the rack by about 53mm.

Not sure about the RA60 ball joint sizing.