Lets talk conversions...

[opedhead]

Hey guys, I'm really keen on doing an engine conversion to my AE86, and the amount of possibilities of what seem to be great ideas are endless! But what puts it to the test is it actually being done.
So I'm curious, what conversions have people done/seen done/read about being done/heard about being done etc etc, and how they turned out in terms of performance, handling, difficulty and cost.

I've had a look at quite a few conversions done to AE86's including:
SR20DET, CA18DET, Beams 3SGE, and F20C's

But I'd like to conversions done with more affordable engines

[Jonny Rochester]

A conversion is basically showing off your great mechanic abilities (plus custom electrical, computer, tuning setups that are beyond the average mechanic).

How good a mechanic are you? First, have you got your current engine dialed and running as best as it can? If not, a conversion is beyond you.

Plus, why do you want a engine conversion? They are horrible things. Just buy another car.

[slide86]

ive heard, but dont quote me on this, that a 4age will fit in an ae86

id do some serious research before attempting that tho

[opedhead]

When I say I'm really keen on doing an engine conversion. I am not talking about me doing it soley by my self. Im not good enough or have the knowledge or experience to do one. But I have a team of friends who have said they will assist me, so I am confident that we can make it work if we find something worth doing.

The reason I want to do a conversion is because I have a very very rough AE86 which isnt in a decent enough condition to warrant restoring, and it has a shitty 4AC in it, so if I want to make it faster than a go kart ill have to put another engine in it anyway. And if Im going to have to spend a couple of G's doing that, I would rather add a G or two and make it something more worth while rather than just a 4AGE... or otherwise find out that the 4AGE is the only thing worth doing!

You see my primary goal for this car is to make it fun/ridiculous and to go hella sideways in it.
NOT make a really nice well balanced respectable AE86 .. Just something I can drive around like a lunatic in and have heaps of fun when i want to hehe

I also want to do it to raise my mechanical abilities and understanding of cars (especially the AE86) and how they are engineered. Because I really love the AE86, and I am using this one as a... a sort of trial, to really see how much I love them and to help decide what Id do to one in the future if I did buy one to fully restore and make 'really nice'

[slide86]

ok here is what you do......

1) spend 3 months on the internet doing research into these cars
2) go and buy a COMPLETE 4age conversion.....i mean, engine, loom, ecu EVERYTHING
3) fit that to your car with the knowledge you have from all the reading you have done

IMO that is THE ONLY way to start for someone in your situation. any other conversion will become to expensive and out of your depth

[DRFTR86]

its not just an engine conversion you must consider, driveline has to be upgraded to near bullet proof spec, my diff alone nearly cost 1500 to have fully set up, not including the tail shaft. theres alot to consider

[Rice86]

as above

do what you can, come back when ur stuck...thats the real conversionsation you should have

and again ive created another F$%ked up word =p

[--Redwork--]

Number 1 rule when doing a conversion... Add up what you think it will cost you then triple it, and thats what it will cost you MIN...

Or just buy some one else's thats already been done and improve it...

[marvis]

ok here is what you do......

1) spend 3 months on the internet doing research into these cars
2) go and buy a COMPLETE 4age conversion.....i mean, engine, loom, ecu EVERYTHING
3) fit that to your car with the knowledge you have from all the reading you have done

IMO that is THE ONLY way to start for someone in your situation. any other conversion will become to expensive and out of your depth

I 100% agree and I would do this myself.

[opedhead]

Thanks for all the tips and the usual recommendations to just do a 4AGE conversion, but I have considered alot of things, from hidden costs, to drivelines, diffs, brakes even to relocating the battery and etc etc etc...
I have been researching forums for MONTHS!!!! on this and Ive been talking to many people about this for a long time including to a mate who did a engine conversion on his RX7 and who's mate has done the SR20 conversion into an AE86 (no im not saying i know it all, im pointing out i have done the internet research and have read a few entire build threads... Its not the conversion itself Im talking about here..

I'm wanting recommendations on cheap engines to put in it. Or what you've heard people put in it.
And Im not going for the professional install, but more the backyard job.

Does anyone have any recommendations of any engines which they think would go alright in a AE86?

[Skylar]

Please do a VQ35DE. I have no idea on price. It'd be cool though, haven't seen a VQ in AE86 yet.

6 speed, NA reliability, enough power for AE86. One stock block motor in Canada has cracked 315rwhp on a hub dyno(can't remember the name of it!!)

[slide86]

Does anyone have any recommendations of any engines which they think would go alright in a AE86?

put a twin turbo ls3 in it. power to weight would be awesome.

seriously just do the 4age.

if you have to ask then you are already in over your head

[opedhead]

if you have to ask then you are already in over your head

Well I already have a few options/ideas but I dont want to bias the answers i get from all you guys. Because no doubt ill say one of them, then for 4 pages it will be people telling me how shit or good those engines are. First I want to hear some fresh ideas.

And there's not much point of me doing a 4AGE unless I turbo it or put a 4AGZE in. I wont be happy with the power at all, i want to make this car scare me

[squish_m8]

I hear vn v6's go well in corollas.....

[redsprinter]

how about a rb30 with straight nos ... fj20 . 13bt ... hmm what else .. 4g63 ..rb26 . 1j

price wise 4age .. is the cheapest you a going to get .. will bolt in . and heap of fun...

its school holiday again .

edit: serious note: 4age dont require any fab skills. every other motor does. if you dont have those skill dont bother .. stick with 4age and slap a turbo with a ECU, tune it and it will be enough to scare you.

[Skylar]

SERIOUS TALK

Do a 4A-GE because that will probably be difficult being your first swap. When you get it running, you'll be happy for two weeks or so til you realise it's super slow. Then turbo it, make cooler pipes and exhaust, wire in a ECU and learn to tune it. Then do a W5something swap and a diff upgrade. Do you have the money to do all that? If you start with CA/SR you don't have to worry about ecu and tuning thing yet but the drivetrain SHOULD get done at the same time as the engine swap. I sorta wish I sorted out my diff before I started my engine swap. That's the last thing that's keeping me off the road.

Do it one step at a time until you know what you're doing. Otherwise you're going in over your head. You learn stuff by doing and doing EVERYTHING at once is not a good way to learn because you will most likely have to re-do everything because you won't get stuff perfect the first time.

[shift_rook]

i'm in melbourne, just finishin off a 4age conversion for another fella's ke70, to tell you the truth, a 4age is more than enough fun man, have you been in an 86 with a 4age? if you wanna spend an extra k or 2 turbo the 4age, sr's and ca's etc start gettin into a whole heap more money and fab

[opedhead]

You're right squish_m8, one those mates i was talking about put a VN V6 into a 70's corolla and apparently the thing is a weapon. And a burnout machine lol.

This same guy has suggested buying an n/a RB30, because you can pick them up for a few hundred dollars due to the sheer abundance of them, decompress and turbo it and wack that in.. Apparently it fits too if you move the radiator support.

I'll have a look into the FJ20, that could be good.
13bt and the 20bt are two options I've been currently researching, as apparently rotaries aren't easy to blow by over revving, i.e. they can take a beating.. (please correct me on this if I'm wrong)

No dice on the 4G63.. I used to own a Mitsubishi Starion with one of those in it.. and it was a fucking piece of shit lol, shitty single cam, single point injection. Hehe i got the turbo glowing bright red in that thing, and i mean bright red!

The 1JZ could be quite an idea too.

I can do fab work, and have things cast etc etc and im a jeweller by trade, so I can handle all the fiddly little shit as well and engineer out a job before starting.

And even though i should start with a 4AGE, ill just end up killing it trying to thrash more power out of it like I always do.

See I've killed two starion motors and one 7MGTE (89 supra) by wishing I had more power, so Im reluctant to try and squeeze power out of a little engine or trying to settle with less. History shows I can't help my self lol.

And in my opinion, Id prefer a bigger engine which effortlessly makes decent power, rather than having a smaller engine which has to rev its tits off with high boost to make the same power. Its going to cost more initially (because we all know engine upgrades are expensive and add up), be less reliable, be higher maintenance and will be a fuckload more vulnerable to breaking.
Where if I spend the couple of extra Gs putting something in from a bigger car which makes alot more kw, and STOCK, then lightly tuning it up, it will be way better... i reckon anyway

That's why I want either a big 4, a small 6 or a rotary.

But saying all this I haven't been in a 4AGTE AE86 yet, so it could be a lot better than Im assuming lol

[shift_rook]

where are you in melb? i know a couple of people with 4a turbo's it's certainly more than enough. rotarys are pretty cool, buyt not very reliable. any 6 cylinder is shithouse unless alll you plan on doing is going straight. and the guy was talkin bout the 4g63 out of an evo i think, twin cam powaaaa, pm me if you need any other advise man, i could hhelp you out, whatever engine you decide on doing i'll help you with the conversion if you like

[slide86]

You're right squish_m8, one those mates i was talking about put a VN V6 into a 70's corolla and apparently the thing is a weapon. And a burnout machine lol.

This same guy has suggested buying an n/a RB30, because you can pick them up for a few hundred dollars due to the sheer abundance of them, decompress and turbo it and wack that in.. Apparently it fits too if you move the radiator support.

I'll have a look into the FJ20, that could be good.
13bt and the 20bt are two options I've been currently researching, as apparently rotaries aren't easy to blow by over revving, i.e. they can take a beating.. (please correct me on this if I'm wrong)

No dice on the 4G63.. I used to own a Mitsubishi Starion with one of those in it.. and it was a fucking piece of shit lol, shitty single cam, single point injection. Hehe i got the turbo glowing bright red in that thing, and i mean bright red!

The 1JZ could be quite an idea too.

I can do fab work, and have things cast etc etc and im a jeweller by trade, so I can handle all the fiddly little shit as well and engineer out a job before starting.

And even though i should start with a 4AGE, ill just end up killing it trying to thrash more power out of it like I always do.

See I've killed two starion motors and one 7MGTE (89 supra) by wishing I had more power, so Im reluctant to try and squeeze power out of a little engine or trying to settle with less. History shows I can't help my self lol.

And in my opinion, Id prefer a bigger engine which effortlessly makes decent power, rather than having a smaller engine which has to rev its tits off with high boost to make the same power. Its going to cost more initially (because we all know engine upgrades are expensive and add up), be less reliable, be higher maintenance and will be a fuckload more vulnerable to breaking.
Where if I spend the couple of extra Gs putting something in from a bigger car which makes alot more kw, and STOCK, then lightly tuning it up, it will be way better... i reckon anyway

That's why I want either a big 4, a small 6 or a rotary.

But saying all this I haven't been in a 4AGTE AE86 yet, so it could be a lot better than Im assuming lol


see this^^^^^^^^

almost every word just goes to show that you have no idea AT ALL about engine conversions or what you are doing......
i have tried to be helpful, but you are obviously dreaming and dont really have any idea what you want to do with your car or what you want to use it for.

ALL those 6 cyl engines, rotaries and the TWIN CAM 4g63 (why would you bother with the single cam version) will require massive amount of engineering work to the chassis, trans tunnel and not just "move the radiator support" (where are you going to move it too???)

not to mention, gearboxes, tailshafts, diffs, suspension, fuel systems and wiring. its going to take more than "a couple of G's"

i cant believe this whole thread is based on an assumption about how a car drives and how an engine performs when you have never even driven or experienced it.

[Jonny Rochester]

lol. This reminds me of the letters section of Fast 4s and Rotaries back in the 90's. I asked all the same questions also. Questions that have to be asked. I considered putting a complete AE101 dash in my KE36, plus the drivetrain of a WRX, plus a 4A-G. The nations best Toyota at the time was a blue AE86 with 1G-GTE. Both the 3T-GTE and 1G where very popular back then.

[Skylar]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/0/2/5/547983.jpg

Is this a good engine swap?

[Blizzerd]

is that a sr20 in a mustang?

[shift_rook]

failzors,it needs an ls1 that's charged, or an ls7 or somethin classy

[Javal]

Oh hi, i'm posting in this thread.

You have no hope of performing almost any of these conversions you have suggested on your own unless you have a LOT of money.

Buy a complete4AGE frontcut

Install in your car

Realize how right we are.

Your 'My first conversion' should always be an easy one.

[biggo]

You know what they say, If you have to ask, you cannae afford it.

Prove me wrong

[fantapants]

i know fuckall about anything really, but have almost finished a beams engine conversion. if your patient and able to teach yourself things, you can achieve a lot.

your ability to research seems somewhat limited though. If you have been researching for months and havnt seen a turbo 4a, your simply doing it wrong.

you seem to want a commondore. cheap, plenty of torque, fun to thrash.

Effortless power is NOT what these cars are about.

if you want that, try the 3vrz??? i think... there was a thread a while back by slydar about these... v6 and strong but cheap as hell.

or the 2.4l 4 cylinder out of the hilux. again chap, already rwd heaps of torque and fuck all revs. will be fun enough till you realise there is more to life than circle work. there are threads around for this conversion, not overly hard just fab work really.

it always cost more than you want it to. thats life :) best of luck with it.

[opedhead]

see this^^^^^^^^

almost every word just goes to show that you have no idea AT ALL about engine conversions or what you are doing......
i have tried to be helpful, but you are obviously dreaming and dont really have any idea what you want to do with your car or what you want to use it for.

ALL those 6 cyl engines, rotaries and the TWIN CAM 4g63 (why would you bother with the single cam version) will require massive amount of engineering work to the chassis, trans tunnel and not just "move the radiator support" (where are you going to move it too???)

not to mention, gearboxes, tailshafts, diffs, suspension, fuel systems and wiring. its going to take more than "a couple of G's"

i cant believe this whole thread is based on an assumption about how a car drives and how an engine performs when you have never even driven or experienced it.

Didn't you read post #4? That clearly states my intentions of the car and where I acknowledge I haven't got a whole heap of knowledge on engine conversions, but dont kid yourself thinking that YOU have helped me in any way. Go re-read your posts. All you have done is told me 3 times that I dont know anything about conversions and that everything besides a 4AGE is not worth it.

How am I supposed to learn more about conversions by taking your advice and giving up?

I still have motivation and ambition to do it because some HELPFUL people I have spoken to, who have done conversions them selves, or are mechanics, or experienced enthusiasts have actually explained what the job involves in terms of buying the engine/transmission, fitting the engine and transmission, getting the ECU and loom to work with my car, and about having a tailshaft made as well as a diff and problems you run into, and how to pre empt and avoid them etc etc etc etc etc. And it seems feasible to me and more importantly them.

If you want to convince me that its a bad idea Slide86... convince me

And who said I was going to do it all my self? I didn't

And I would absolutely LOVE to sit in an AE86 which has had a conversion or turbo or something, but there isn't alot of people out there with them, thats why i have to speculate the job.

On another note...

Thanks Shift Rook! I think Ill take you up on that offer :) Im sure I can compensate your time with a nice ring or something too hehe

[slide86]

im not going to try and help some one that doesnt want to listen to common sense.

everyone else on this forum who has read my post KNOWS that i WAS trying to help and i was giving good advice.

you are just an idiot.

you have to learn to crawl before you can walk

[reecegze]

A 4agte ae86 will be plenty for most mate.. I wouldnt go anyother way in a ae86, bolt in and power to skid wheels.

[evil86]

best to learn to drive before you want more power, because those who have power struggle to drive under powered cars.

[opedhead]

im not going to try and help some one that doesnt want to listen to common sense.

everyone else on this forum who has read my post KNOWS that i WAS trying to help and i was giving good advice.

you are just an idiot.

you have to learn to crawl before you can walk

Ok, lets look at some of the "good advice" you have given me then shall we

1. "ive heard, but dont quote me on this, that a 4age will fit in an ae86

id do some serious research before attempting that tho "

2. "ok here is what you do......

1) spend 3 months on the internet doing research into these cars
2) go and buy a COMPLETE 4age conversion.....i mean, engine, loom, ecu EVERYTHING
3) fit that to your car with the knowledge you have from all the reading you have done

IMO that is THE ONLY way to start for someone in your situation. any other conversion will become to expensive and out of your depth"

3. "put a twin turbo ls3 in it. power to weight would be awesome.

seriously just do the 4age.

if you have to ask then you are already in over your head "

YOU'RE an idiot. And you are creating more and more evidence of this, post by post.

If you don't believe it's going to succeed or it's a bad idea, explain why or fuck off.. don't just post sarcastic and patronizing shit all over my post and waste my time. This is what a forum is for... TO LEARN. If I knew all the answers I WOULDN'T ASK THEM, WOULD I?

I also did the good thing and ignored your initial "good advice" but you insisted on continually chiming in with your moronic shit and wasting my time.

I would have listened to your advice and have taken it on board, but unfortunately you didn't give me any

[Tim.duncan]

when i bought my ae86 i knew i would not be happy with a 4age i just needed that little bit more. so i got a 4agze it runs 13 psi and has a front mount and its plenty quick enough. your not going to be able to drag off everycar at the lights but saying that i have kept up with an ls1 no worries till about 90km. an 86 is not a drag car if you want to have a car that "can go sideways" having a dirty big 6 cylinder up front is just going to screw with the way the car handles.

A 4agze is not a straight bolt in afair but there are plenty of people who have done it and can help you out along the way WHEN you run into problems. At the end of the day you want a car that drives not one in bits and pieces because your trying to fit a rb30 into it, then you will loose hope, then have to try and part it out to get your money back

my vote = 4agze

[slide86]

Ok, lets look at some of the "good advice" you have given me then shall we

1. "ive heard, but dont quote me on this, that a 4age will fit in an ae86

id do some serious research before attempting that tho "

2. "ok here is what you do......

1) spend 3 months on the internet doing research into these cars
2) go and buy a COMPLETE 4age conversion.....i mean, engine, loom, ecu EVERYTHING
3) fit that to your car with the knowledge you have from all the reading you have done

IMO that is THE ONLY way to start for someone in your situation. any other conversion will become to expensive and out of your depth"

3. "put a twin turbo ls3 in it. power to weight would be awesome.

seriously just do the 4age.

if you have to ask then you are already in over your head "

YOU'RE an idiot. And you are creating more and more evidence of this, post by post.

If you don't believe it's going to succeed or it's a bad idea, explain why or fuck off.. don't just post sarcastic and patronizing shit all over my post and waste my time. This is what a forum is for... TO LEARN. If I knew all the answers I WOULDN'T ASK THEM, WOULD I?

I also did the good thing and ignored your initial "good advice" but you insisted on continually chiming in with your moronic shit and wasting my time.

I would have listened to your advice and have taken it on board, but unfortunately you didn't give me any

see all that is in bold? that is advice....its not my fault if you cant take advice when its staring you in the face.
notice how everybody else who has "chimed in" has said exactly the same thing as myself...its for a good reason. WE KNOW WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. once again, instantly dismissing the turbo 4age idea without actually ever driving or experiencing it = stupid.

ok, i may have been pretty sarcastic at the start.....but after the YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS of being a senior member of this forum i see this same question come up without people actually doing any research into it. you claim that you have......but nothing that you have said in this thread backs it up.

i actually have mechanical experience, what with being a mechanic for the last 9 years. so i do have an idea bout what i am talking bout. plus actually completing several conversions on these cars

[Javal]

Okay homeboys, lets break it down. (funky style)

1 ) You've 'thoroughly researched' your options, yet don't really know anything about them
2 ) Your 'thoroughly researched' options are at odds with your desired outcome (read: 'hella sideways' and 'cheap').
3 ) You're indecisive. If you don't know what engine you want to put in your car for what reason, you don't know what you want from it or what you want from your car. So you have no defined desired outcome, you just want AN outcome.
4 ) You've admitted that you have limited mechanical knowledge, but seem absolutely determined to undertake a conversion which you cannot possibly fathom the difficulty of
5 ) You've asked for advice, but don't seem to want to listen to anyone - instead you're getting fired up and provoking a moderator
6 ) The aforementioned moderator has years and years of experience in these kinds of things, you don't.

Do not poke the moderator. Concede your point or face the ban stick.

[Konakid]

http://media.podhoster.com/thatradio/images/bigstockphoto_hammer_striking_nail_w_sparks_333329 .jpg

[Hen may possibly be a nut]

OP - the best way to prove your point and show all the haters in this thread up is to choose whichever engine you like (be it a 1JZ, 7M, Evo donk or whatever), fit it to your car and then post pics of it saying "see that, I did it, screw all you haters".

Or even better go and do skids on their lawns in it.

I look forward to hearing from you once complete.

Hen

[Sam-Q]

I can also potentially help you out, I like to support the Victorian guys.

If you want cheap (relatively) and easy then I think either the commo V6 or a CA18

[Rice86]

let the man do his conversion

seems like he knows what he wants so let him do the struggles, its going to be part of his conversion so let it be

good on you to do what you want...YES there are ideal conversions that you should be doing first but hey man, go for it if you rekon you can do it..

[Skylar]

Okay homeboys, lets break it down. (funky style)

1 ) You've 'thoroughly researched' your options, yet don't really know anything about them
2 ) Your 'thoroughly researched' options are at odds with your desired outcome (read: 'hella sideways' and 'cheap').
3 ) You're indecisive. If you don't know what engine you want to put in your car for what reason, you don't know what you want from it or what you want from your car. So you have no defined desired outcome, you just want AN outcome.
4 ) You've admitted that you have limited mechanical knowledge, but seem absolutely determined to undertake a conversion which you cannot possibly fathom the difficulty of
5 ) You've asked for advice, but don't seem to want to listen to anyone - instead you're getting fired up and provoking a moderator
6 ) The aforementioned moderator has years and years of experience in these kinds of things, you don't.

Do not poke the moderator. Concede your point or face the ban stick.

+ rep

[biggo]

Slide 86 sarcastic AND patronising? What is the world coming to? I thought they taught you the difference in school? Maybe you ditched that class

[ke_70]

now that i think of it do a 3s convertion
biggo can tell you how easy and smooth it is

[biggo]

jimmeh fucking beam smooth

[opedhead]

lol alright alright, I concede. You're too right slide86



i know fuckall about anything really, but have almost finished a beams engine conversion. if your patient and able to teach yourself things, you can achieve a lot.

your ability to research seems somewhat limited though. If you have been researching for months and havnt seen a turbo 4a, your simply doing it wrong.

Rep X 1000 Nice work! After reading Brendan's build and what he achieved, the Beams 3SGE is where my inspiration for wanting to do a conversion all began lol. You're going to have a sick car once you're done!

And you are too right.. If you can teach yourself things, you definitely can achieve alot! ALOT more than someone who doesn't try to begin with.

In terms of research and my thought development this is how it goes. when I first bought my AE86, I read Bill Sherwoods website and the original dream was to make a nuts 20V with trumpet throttle bodies.. But after watching a bunch of AE86 videos it seemed that the best they produce was around 220ps... and to do that it seemed they had pretty much turned their 4AGE into one of those formula atlantic race ones which is no where near cheap nor do I want to put up with the pain of driving a race engine around... and to only achieve 220-240ps!!!!!... fuck that, I don't care that much about keeping it original.

So then came the 4AGZE and 4AGTE thoughts... I had it in my mind for ages that I was going to get a 4AGZE and put a S14 supercharger on it.

Then I saw Brendan's build thread, and I was addicted. Read the whole thing, watched all his videos and thought... that's fucking genius!
I wanted to read more about conversions done to AE86's so I did some web searching, and found alot but one which stuck in my head was a guy in Hawaii or the Caribbean or some shit, who put a beams 3SGE in his notch back. I read the whole thing (too much time on my hands) and loved it as well. He had done so much of it himself and didn't have huge problems with things and he didn't say anything was overly difficult. It seemed the most difficult parts of the job are physically mounting the engine and wiring it to work with the chassis loom. (And these days, you can purchase the already modified engine and trans mounts for the popular conversions)
I still wanted to read more (addiction) and found a guy in England who had made the coolest AE86 ever. He didn't do much of it himself, but fuck me it was an awesome car. He had put a F20C in it and didn't skip any expense anywhere, ill try and find the link, and there was a few more conversions I looked at including an incomplete V8 one and a 1JZ one and a few more 3SGE's.

After reading all the build threads and after having a look at how well all the outcomes of all the 3SGE, F20C and SR converted AE86's performed, I'd decided. If I was going to try and make mine fast and throw thousands at it, rather than spending it on the 1.6L 4AGE, I'd put something more worthwhile in it. Something which could produce more power.. and ALOT more power if I wanted to.

I'm not a mechanic or automotive engineer, but in my attempt to work it out logically. When talking about ruining the car's handling by doing a conversion and adding extra weight at the front, engines don't seem to get much heavier when going up 400cc (according to http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/phil.bradshaw/Planning.htm) a 4AGE 20 Valve 1.6 litre & T-50 is 155kg, 3SGE & T-50 161kg and a Nissan SR 20 & gearbox 183kg. And I figured a good diff upgrade should put some extra kg in the rear, hehe or i'll leave my toolbox in my boot. I also suggest reading that link.
Also one of the resources which made me confident that the car would, or at least could be made to handle well was a video on youtube of some dude in a AE86 with a F20C race around a track and overtake a bunch of Porche's. Oh and the results of some of the guys off here like Fast Eddie who drifts his SR20 86 like a pro!

With a better thought of what I want in mind (CA18DET, 3SGTE, or the top runner SR20DET conversion) I have laid dormant while I finished my course, because I couldn't work enough to make the cash to do it... Now I'm back at work and am saving so it's back on the plate. And well I thought I'd throw the question out there:

"Hey guys, I'm really keen on doing an engine conversion to my AE86, and the amount of possibilities of what seem to be great ideas are endless! But what puts it to the test is it actually being done.
So I'm curious, what conversions have people done/seen done/read about being done/heard about being done etc etc, and how they turned out in terms of performance, handling, difficulty and cost.

I've had a look at quite a few conversions done to AE86's including:
SR20DET, CA18DET, Beams 3SGE, and F20C's

But I'd like to *see conversions done with more affordable engines"


Defeat is not the worst of failures. Not to have tried is the true failure.

[Jdm-Mcc]

Ca18det, cheap , good power, sound better then truck motor sr's haha

[fantapants]

yeah i have chatted with those guys a bit, there is also conrads build very similar to the f20c your refering to but with beams

decide on priority... cost or time or awesomeness...

then pick the appropriate engine swap :) then hang the car up for 6 months :)

cost - hilux option would be cheap, but hasnt been done often here. check the yanks and euro sites, they seem more into the torque. elsewise, ca18 peice of cake and done a fair bit.

time - 4age

aweseomness - whatever floats your boat the most :) fuck the haters and dive in, but you wont have it finished his side of a year :)

[Sam-Q]

I also think the CA18 seems like a cheap and easy option

[Chaos Theory]

Vauxhall XE Ecotec

or BMW S14.

jap is crap.

[ke70dave]

this thread is fairly...pathetic.

i really hate to say it opedhead bt asking questions like this arent going to get you anywhere.

you need to read the internet at least 20 times. read every build thread you can find on every forum. there is bound to be a build thread for any engine you desire. 4age is a bolt in conversion, quite easy, but still requires some work, took me a few weeks to get everything sorted in my ke70.

CA and SR are almost bolt in conversions with the mounting kits you can buy (research), though considerations of intercooler piping upgraded diffs comes into play. research mate. i've helped my mate put a ca18 in his 86, it fits really nice.

any sort of Mitsubishi engine is going to require alot of work as know one does them, not saying its not possible, but its going to take some thinking and you are NOT going to be able to find the information by asking broad questions like this.

1 rotary would be SOOO sweet, but i beilve that a 13B turbo cant be legal, so your stuck with a 12A and you'll be hard pressed finding a factory turbo one. so youll need to rebuild the engine to take turbo. (or whack a turbo on a 12A, my mates is still going after a year or so). i hear rotary gearboxes are massive, and thus you have to rearrange the transmission tunnel. research. and of course all mounting will be custom made, unless you can do this yourself its going to cost you to much. just buy an FD.

once again, forget about asking questions about the above, unless they are SPECIFIC.

these old cars and old engines aren't complicated (86s are 25yrs old, and CA's/SR's aren't much younger, just need to research on how to shoe horn them in the easiest way.

now go and research! and come back with SPECIFIC questions.

[opedhead]

Thanks ke70dave, that's EXACTLY the sort of answer I was looking for from the very start! I wish you stumbled across this thread earlier hehe.
And I didn't ask a specific question because I didn't have one at that point, I just wanted to narrow down my options or maybe find new/better ones.
But thanks again mate! I think I've past that stage.

Now I have a very specific track to look down now:
- SR20DET or CA18DET (and I suppose good mods to do when its out of the car)
- what diff I want/need
- suitable/best brake upgrade
- wiring info
- suitable/best suspension upgrade
- read as many builds/ thread and articles about the conversion
- research into preparations to the chassis and if beneficial/appropriate or not, before installing engine i.e. seam welding, cage etc

If anyone has any insight into those components or any I've left out, please contribute :D

fantapants - Hehe I'll have what you're having. Awesomeness

A mate at my gym who drifts and modifies his cars mostly (maybe all) himself gave me the advice once... Know what you want, then get what you want, and nothing else. (i.e. if you want a 2way LSD, don't buy a 'temp' diff in the meantime and plan on getting it later, as you are buying things twice and wasting your money on shit you'll throw out)

[Chaos Theory]

2.5 litre millington diamond.

[shift_rook]

i like sr's better, same sorta fuck around fittin one in, slightly higher initial outlay, but much easier to get reliable high power figures out of em than ca18's from what i've seen,. without being a lag queen anyway

[--Redwork--]

SR is simple...
Power is simple.. Rocker stoppers/ 550cc injectors and a garrett 2871 with a point .63housing.. Front mount and 3 inch exhaust... MORE than enough power and not laggy at all.. No need for flash shinny manifolds and crap.

Diff.. Just get and F series.. Or if you think you'll need it do a Hilux rear..
Brakes... Convert the rear to disk and do the Mazda 4 piston front brake upgrade.
Suspenion.. BC coilovers... can't go wrong for the price... and there really good..

Then get a bolt in cage and some good seats. car is finished... And that only took me a couple of minutes.. :) I'm sure with a little persistance you could get it done.

Plus it will still be good to drive and not a front heavy boat.. As it would be with a 1j or even a 2rz.

[Chaos Theory]

all you nissan lovers are on the wrong forum.

[ke70dave]

Thanks ke70dave, that's EXACTLY the sort of answer I was looking for from the very start! I wish you stumbled across this thread earlier hehe.

Now I have a very specific track to look down now:
- SR20DET or CA18DET (and I suppose good mods to do when its out of the car)
- what diff I want/need
- suitable/best brake upgrade
- wiring info
- suitable/best suspension upgrade
- read as many builds/ thread and articles about the conversion
- research into preparations to the chassis and if beneficial/appropriate or not, before installing engine i.e. seam welding, cage etc



yer i wasnt here all last week, down at schoolie volunteering (go red frogs!)

forget about modifying a sr20 or ca18 if your gonna put it in a ae86. have you ever been for a drive in an sr or ca powerd 86? even in standard form it is a phenomenal amount of power for such a light car. my mates 86 was a non turbo ca18 (so high compression, and i think "better" cams) running on 12psi. and it was almost too much power for it, wheel spin in any gear at full throttle. unless you want to smoke tyres 100% of the time (which you might?) then i suggest not touching the engine. also stock = reliability.

CA vs SR? the argument will go on forever. people pull out CA's from their slovias all the time and replace them with SR's. therefore CA's are cheap! non shagged ones are getting hard to find, so a freshen up is suggested (rings, bearings etc). also CA's dont have a factory revlimiter, and do bearings if reved to high. so an aftermarket rev limiter is recommended.

brake upgrade: a billion options, the Rx7 caliper with appropriate disc is a popular and easy conversion (see AJPS in the sponsors section). There's the hilux an Peugeot upgrade, im not tooo familiar with it, i hear its good though. there is always S13 gear, i have it in my car, but if you have the cash for a proper 86 setup then i would recommend that. s13 gear is good, but its not the greatest. only advantage is it is cheap.

wiring info: too much to cover in a single post, wiring CA's and SR's into other cars is no more difficult than 4age's.

suspension upgrade? read more mate, there is about 50 billion options, find some ppl in your area (where are you from?) with suspension setups and get them to take you for a spin. see what you like. suspension settings is a very personal thing, and unfortunately the only way to find what works for you is experimentation.

cage? in my opinion its all or nothing. a nice weld in cage is going to cost you alot, you can get a half cage but the ones ive seen aren't the best, they should really be welded in properly to have a decent effect.

body preparation? theres a few threads around about seem welding, ive not got involved with it. up to you. can be done with engine out or whatever. maybe have a crack at the seems in the engine bay, around the towers.

diff? again many options. id like to put an R31 diff in my car if i ever went turbo. there is a kaaz lsd available for them, and they arent too massive. there is either hilux or torago. we put a torago diff in my mates car, its huge and prolly an overkill (especially since we all run tyres that are either 185 or 195 wide). depends on your level of mechanical sympathy too. some guys just use the standard diff and treat it nice.

i think this post is big enough..

[wntdae86]

You're right squish_m8, one those mates i was talking about put a VN V6 into a 70's corolla and apparently the thing is a weapon. And a burnout machine lol.

This same guy has suggested buying an n/a RB30, because you can pick them up for a few hundred dollars due to the sheer abundance of them, decompress and turbo it and wack that in.. Apparently it fits too if you move the radiator support.

I'll have a look into the FJ20, that could be good.
13bt and the 20bt are two options I've been currently researching, as apparently rotaries aren't easy to blow by over revving, i.e. they can take a beating.. (please correct me on this if I'm wrong)

No dice on the 4G63.. I used to own a Mitsubishi Starion with one of those in it.. and it was a fucking piece of shit lol, shitty single cam, single point injection. Hehe i got the turbo glowing bright red in that thing, and i mean bright red!

The 1JZ could be quite an idea too.

I can do fab work, and have things cast etc etc and im a jeweller by trade, so I can handle all the fiddly little shit as well and engineer out a job before starting.

And even though i should start with a 4AGE, ill just end up killing it trying to thrash more power out of it like I always do.

See I've killed two starion motors and one 7MGTE (89 supra) by wishing I had more power, so Im reluctant to try and squeeze power out of a little engine or trying to settle with less. History shows I can't help my self lol.

And in my opinion, Id prefer a bigger engine which effortlessly makes decent power, rather than having a smaller engine which has to rev its tits off with high boost to make the same power. Its going to cost more initially (because we all know engine upgrades are expensive and add up), be less reliable, be higher maintenance and will be a fuckload more vulnerable to breaking.
Where if I spend the couple of extra Gs putting something in from a bigger car which makes alot more kw, and STOCK, then lightly tuning it up, it will be way better... i reckon anyway

That's why I want either a big 4, a small 6 or a rotary.

But saying all this I haven't been in a 4AGTE AE86 yet, so it could be a lot better than Im assuming lol


i see by this you are a bit of a tool but i think you need the tool by the name of READING oh and whats that THINKING

[Chaos Theory]

26B Rotary

[ArbPotatoes]

26B Rotary

I hear they drop straight in, you just have to move the firewall and rack. Should be easy!

Please, look over the rest of the thread. Good advice there. I'm undertaking a 4AGE conversion right now having never done one in my life, and there's no way I would try anything else.

[hachi_dk]

go sr20 and make a highly detailed thread as i will be going sr20 soon ;)

[Vance]

sr20 is a very easy conversion with awesome power potential

http://www.jspfab.com/catalog/i60.html

easy mounts so you dont have to make your own.


its a shame the sr20s sound like shit but who cares when you have potentially 300rwkw

[redsprinter]

spoke to Beau Yates on the Saturday. and he runs something like 280ish kw at the wheel .. shit load of power .. but after speaking with him i think i might stick to no more then say 150rwkw... if ever needed more power ...

beau 's DA car only gives him 4 laps on a new set of tyres, and there not cheap tyres aswell .

cost of tyres alone for 1 track day is almost triple the gate fee .

[Skylar]

SR is simple...
Power is simple.. Rocker stoppers/ 550cc injectors and a garrett 2871 with a point .63housing.. Front mount and 3 inch exhaust... MORE than enough power and not laggy at all.. No need for flash shinny manifolds and crap.

Diff.. Just get and F series.. Or if you think you'll need it do a Hilux rear..
Brakes... Convert the rear to disk and do the Mazda 4 piston front brake upgrade.
Suspenion.. BC coilovers... can't go wrong for the price... and there really good..

Then get a bolt in cage and some good seats. car is finished... And that only took me a couple of minutes.. :) I'm sure with a little persistance you could get it done.

Plus it will still be good to drive and not a front heavy boat.. As it would be with a 1j or even a 2rz.

I have a few questions:

Do rocker arm stoppers really do anything? I've heard of rocker arms flying out of where they're supposed to be, hitting the RAS and bending it. Never heard of anyone say they work.

BC Coilovers, have you got/seen/found dyno plots of these things?

Last Q, does anyone make caliper adapters to convert F-series to disc brakes?

[kos!]

Yes, a set of RAS will do something. They stop the rocker arms from moving from their position under high RPMs, so they dont pop out and damage the valve train. For $50 its cheap insurance and should always be done. I've seen quite a few SR20s damaged from the rocker arms moving out of their spot and being torn apart.

[Celica RA45]

my 2 cents is .if you are putting a nissan engine into a toyota its like butt sex ,its just wrong ,keep it toyota and keep it 4 cylinder as well :DD:DD:DD

[banzai_pots]

hijacking thread slightly*
1. has neone put a ej20t/tt/25t/tt into an ae86?

2. can it be done?

3. if i get a pay rise/stop drinking so much/supply ae86 shell + ej halfcut + cable ties, whos keen? :p

/flame/ban/etc.

[Sam-Q]

no and no, won't fit between the rails

[chrisjjanfd3s]

Just my 2c but

If you want a car with 100000hp than an ae86 isnt the car for you. While it is posible its completly pointless. The ammount of money that you spend on some crazy conversion will give you a car thats is pretty fast in a straight line but handles like crap.

86's are all about handling, why not enhance the cars strong points rather than trying to turn it into something its not. IE an 86 with a 100kw 20v and fully worked suspension and brakes would be 10x better to drive than a 300kw SR20 powered lag monster running on king springs. It'd also be 5x cheaper and easier to build :)

[chrisjjanfd3s]

Just my 2c but

If you want a car with 100000hp than an ae86 isn’t the car for you. While it is possible its completely pointless. The amount of money that you spend on some crazy conversion will give you a car that’s pretty fast in a straight line but handles like crap.

86's are all about handling, why not enhance the cars strong points rather than trying to turn it into something its not. IE an 86 with a 100kw 20v and fully worked suspension and brakes would be 10x better to drive than a 300kw SR20 powered lag monster running on king springs. It'd also be 5x cheaper and easier to build :)

[ArbPotatoes]

Just my 2c but

If you want a car with 100000hp than an ae86 isnt the car for you. While it is posible its completly pointless. The ammount of money that you spend on some crazy conversion will give you a car thats is pretty fast in a straight line but handles like crap.

86's are all about handling, why not enhance the cars strong points rather than trying to turn it into something its not. IE an 86 with a 100kw 20v and fully worked suspension and brakes would be 10x better to drive than a 300kw SR20 powered lag monster running on king springs. It'd also be 5x cheaper and easier to build :)

Good post. AE86s are meant to be darty, not powerful. 100kw is more than enough to get sideways in a car like these.

[fantapants]

yeah..... but what about HELLA sidewys?

[Skylar]

Yeah dude, you need more than 100kw to go sideways at 88mph.

[Rice86]

yeah..... but what about HELLA sidewys?

super weight shift!!!!

with..........






SUPPPPERRR LATTTEEEE BRAAAKKKINNNGGG TEECHHNUUIIIQQEEE!!!

[ArbPotatoes]

Weld the suspension solid for hella sideways

Actually, probably end up hella upside down

[opedhead]

Sorry for my absence lately. I've been working heaps with lots of overtime this last week (need the cash to make this actually happen :) )

hachi_dk - will do.. I'll try and make it a 'how to' if i can hehe

riojin - thanks for the link, those kits are going to make it a billion times easier to complete

Celica RA45 - yep like butt sex... giving though, not receiving

chrisjjanfd3s - Of course I will be enhancing it's strong point, handling. That's the whole point of choosing this car for the conversion. I'm not going to spend thousands on the engine
then just whack king springs in it lol. I'm just fixing its weak points. Power and torque

fantapants, skylar and rice 86 - Damn right, hella sideways at 88mph IS where it's at! That's called living the dream!

ke70dave - Thanks yet again for another great post of knowledge.

I think you're right with not having to get more power out of it, i think I'll just work on making the engine rev nicely, reliability and to be bulletproof
and take a flogging so i can drift it and use it as a daily

brakes - Yeh it seems there a million options for brakes, i'll get to exploring the options

diff - The R31 seems like a very good option, i think i might make that my choice, for the same reasons you listed.

Susupension - yeh this is the biggest dilemma. There are soo many well recommended options I've got no idea what to do. I live in Brighton Vic (i can travel though) If anyone is keen to show me their set up, Id really love to come for a spin :D

[s14seriesII]

Just my 2c but

If you want a car with 100000hp than an ae86 isn’t the car for you. While it is possible its completely pointless. The amount of money that you spend on some crazy conversion will give you a car that’s pretty fast in a straight line but handles like crap.
86's are all about handling, why not enhance the cars strong points rather than trying to turn it into something its not. IE an 86 with a 100kw 20v and fully worked suspension and brakes would be 10x better to drive than a 300kw SR20 powered lag monster running on king springs. It'd also be 5x cheaper and easier to build :)


sorry but my 260+ rwkw ae86 has better throttle response than a stock n/a 4age

and power doesnt make a car slow around corners.. just feels slow because you only need 1/8 throttle to accelerate like a 4ag out of the corner


my contribution to this thread is sr20det... just make sure you budget around 20k for the conversion including brakes suspension driveline, fuel system, etc etc..