HSD coilovers for ae86

[steroidchickens]

this seems like a great idea. price seems abit steep. but when you think about dont have to pay for struts and they have an rca.

i have had a couple of sets of hsds ion the past and they have been great.


not trying to sell anything here.

copied and pasted
After a long time in R&D (couple of years actually) we are proud to release the new HSD **-type coilover kit for AE86 Sprinter, Trueno, Levin and equivalent Toyota chassis numbers.

This is a true bolt-in kit, with all the best stuff for this model.

The front units feature and inverted mono-tube damper, with a special offset pillow-ball camber plate that also gives a caster increase.

The inverted damper means you have a thick top shaft for maximum strength and reduced unsprung weight. A complete stub-axle is included, with roll-centre adapters and longer bolts under the unit to reduce bump-steer. As the damper is inverted the adjuster is hidden inside the base, so for easy adjustment an extended adjustment knob is included, with a stay to keep it out of harm's way. Like all HSD **-type coilovers, the height adjustment is made at the base of the unit and there is a slot cut in the side so you can easily see how much lower or higher you can go.

The rear features adjustable-length mono-tube dampers with 15-step damping adjustment, plus an adjustable spring seat and new short spring. As this kit is designed for drift and race AE86 cars the included spring rates are 8kg front and 6kg rear. Any rate can be swapped into the front, but at this stage 6kg is the only rate for the rear. More rates will be available according to demand.

Due to the complexity of the kit the price is a little higher than other **-type kits at $1899, but this is still miles cheaper than equivalent kits from Japan.

Go to the ** page to order your set now!

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/2/4/30216.jpg

[steroidchickens]

looking at the pics. how the hell would you bolt up a steering arm if the adjuster pokes out the bottom of the rca.

whoops must not be allowed to link this up here the H R is blocked.

[ke70dave]

looking at the pics. how the hell would you bolt up a steering arm if the adjuster pokes out the bottom of the rca.



i was going to post that, but thought i was stupid.

but you are right.......

i thought about buying a pair of these for my s13 front end (s13 ones of course). i think they were like $700/pair. not toooo cheap, but not too expensive either...

[GEMTA22]

Speaking to Otomoto last year these have been in R&D for several years.

Like to see reviews at the price id rather grreddy coilovers.

[Buck]

good to see another company quoting "r&d"....clearly they need to fire their R&D department looking at those coilovers

adjuster knob in the bottom...yeh thats heaps sick...so in all their "r&d" they couldnt work out that you wont be able to get to the adjuster once the strut is in, unless of course you cut a slit/hole in the rca...and that would be very safe, i suggest we all go and do it to our current setups

i also noticed a distinct lack of pics "on car"

only thing i would think about is the rear setup...although im not too sure on the quality of the shocks...

for the price i would just buy GREDDY setup

[trikzlane]

that rear spring adjuster is a cool idea but if it works good i dont know

mereki.

[fantapants]

its an inverted damper.... thats what inverted means, its at the bottom ..... maybe try a bit of R and D yourself??

and what fucking on car pics you want????? just a random lowered 86?? yeah win.

these are possibly pre production images produced for advertising blah blah.

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/3/9/30261.jpg

this is the usual solution to inverted adjusters on 86 and other similar styles. Oh yeah, what model... DG5 only one of the best suspension setups available for purchase.... but yeah inverted so what the fuck would they know?


good to see another company quoting "r&d"....clearly they need to fire their R&D department looking at those coilovers

adjuster knob in the bottom...yeh thats heaps sick...so in all their "r&d" they couldnt work out that you wont be able to get to the adjuster once the strut is in, unless of course you cut a slit/hole in the rca...and that would be very safe, i suggest we all go and do it to our current setups

i also noticed a distinct lack of pics "on car"

only thing i would think about is the rear setup...although im not too sure on the quality of the shocks...

for the price i would just buy GREDDY setup

[steroidchickens]

haha, settle down pat. i thaught you were in christmas spirit.

[fantapants]

lol.... i hate being sick and it makes me a grumpy cunt... apologies for biting your head off buck...

imo i recon these will be ok... not awesome, but ok :)

ive been really happy with my s13 hsd front...

[Buck]

i am well awear of what an inverted damper is...you have clearly missed the point i was trying to make...

you have also then brought DG5 into the argument...yay cool, they have made it possible to get to the adjuster on their inverted setup...HSD HAVENT, which is the actual point i made...

maybe you need to re-read my post and point out where i said "inverted dampers are the worst idea in the world ever"...



its an inverted damper.... thats what inverted means, its at the bottom ..... maybe try a bit of R and D yourself??

and what fucking on car pics you want????? just a random lowered 86?? yeah win.

these are possibly pre production images produced for advertising blah blah.

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/3/9/30261.jpg

this is the usual solution to inverted adjusters on 86 and other similar styles. Oh yeah, what model... DG5 only one of the best suspension setups available for purchase.... but yeah inverted so what the fuck would they know?

[fantapants]

blah blah blah

[Mr Awsome]

cat fight cat fight!.....go for the eyes!

[driftke70]

not as good as a custom made setup but still a fair bit better than the other trash out there.

good that it comes with a stub axle, saves some dicking around for the keto boys trying to find 86 struts.

but you will still need to find 86 hubs i guess.

ive spoken to grant, hes not an idiot. these are quite well designed, rca is no different to any other rca you would have, it is not permanantly attatched. Basically just comes *free* with the kit.

theres a slot for you to move the adjuster out the side before the rca, its just like that for transport. Could be even easier to adjust as you could just turn your wheels to lock and stick your hand in and adjust.

But ill stick to the custom stuff.

[fantapants]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/3/9/548039.jpg

ready to rumble....

[trikzlane]

lol, i put $50 for the win on pat

mereki.

[Buck]

theres a slot for you to move the adjuster out the side before the rca, its just like that for transport. Could be even easier to adjust as you could just turn your wheels to lock and stick your hand in and adjust.

But ill stick to the custom stuff.

i no longer see an issue

[Hen may possibly be a nut]

I never thought I'd see so many people whinging that a company has gone out of it's way to support 20yr old Corollas. Good on them. I've had no quality issues mith my S13 HSD coilovers. Beyond that can't comment on these.

Hen

[fantapants]

well said hen :)

[GEMTA22]

I guess direct competition would be BC and Greddy.
Who rates the HSD more than BC ?

HSD are rebuildable if it blows extra incentive i guess.

[driftke70]

i wouldnt really run bc, but id run hsd, if i didnt want the bigger xt130 stub axle and brake combo.

[Nic19]

I'm really interested in this kit for my ke. I already have sprinter struts but havnt converted to coilover yet. The kit wouldn't be much mre than if I was to buy all the shocks and springs to do custom coilover set-up. I'm really keen so hear a review of these. As said HSD is a very reputable company that has long served lots of drifters with no complaints that I have heard.

[Blizzerd]

im pretty keen to get some for my levin also.

did we decide if they are any good or not?

[shift_rook]

otomoto are now a site sponsor, ask em, monotube-great, inverted-good, cheap-good, bolt in for corolla's-brilliant, would muhc prefer these over something like a bc but they aren't exactly the be all and end all in the market, mind you the price reflects this, good bang for buck i wreckon, haven't pulled any apart though. anyone wanna lend me a shock?

[slydar]

id say they are probably pretty good. hsd stuff is pretty decent. a cut above a lot of ebay/china brands for sure.

its basically otomoto's brand, run (im really just guessing) by ben ellis really. who doesnt seem like an idiot to me. theyd almost tempt me save for the fact i am able to build my own stuff pretty cheap just cos i own a welder etc.

if i didnt, id definitely consider these. at least being hsd if you have any troubles youre probably gonna be able to get some help being an established brand in Australia.

[FAST EDDIE]

i have hsd in the front of my 86 s13 sus and they are brilliant

[hachirusto]

Id be interested if they are going to also be selling rear pairs seperately, considering alot of guys already have front coilovers it would be a smart move to sell the rear setup

[hachi_dk]

^^ word

[.ady]

Id be interested if they are going to also be selling rear pairs seperately, considering alot of guys already have front coilovers it would be a smart move to sell the rear setup

+1 on that too

[redsprinter]

http://www.enjukuracing.com/images/st86a.jpg

thought this was interesting . "stance" from the USA has this setup.

[Mr Awsome]

looks like the same factory

[ae86]

i think some along with myself are getting confused, by the looks of the picture looks like the rear setup is still seperate shock and spring setup just with an adjustable spring perch,
buddy parts adj spring perch
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/9/31602.jpg

personally id rather go the extra $200 and get rear coilover setup, but if i had a budget ae71 or ke70 id certainly get a set of these in a heartbeat

[Mr Awsome]

they are seperate, its just like in your pic.

[Nic19]

i want some of these so bad!

[ae86]

if people werent half assed theyd notice on yaj ppl sell greedy springs and adj perches alone lol

[biggo]

HSD always sell parts seperatly. Ive bought a few bits in the past and will do so again.

But for the price of a kit like this you cant go wrong, and the part i like most is you will never have to look far for support. I bet BC's or even greddy cant offer that kind of level.

[kaibeecee]

HSD shit is sound. i've run it, know heaps who run it - never one issue.

i have JIC silvers in the S13 now and am almost considering selling and going to HSD again

[racsov]

pretty solid looking kit

[chrisjjanfd3s]

Funny how HSD claim to have spent years developing a product and then a few week later stance releases an identical set of coilovers...

[fantapants]

doesnt mean anything..... factories will sell to anyone.

its easier to see who had it first - they usually front much of the r and d

[Nic19]

well i really wanna feel these!! im keen as on some height adjustable suspension but dont want it rock hard!

[resol]

these are the exact same design as BC and a few other brands. dont go fooling yourself, it takes one engineer to design these things and then a few people to turn that design into a coilver setup. so brand to brand difference wont come down to the idea, or the design, but to the quality of the build, and the shocks that are used.

the BC stuff is mono-tube but not inverted, so the adjustments are at the top within reach. might i ask those who are preeching about inverted shocks, why they think they are so good... (i know they are better in some circumstances, just asking peoples opinions).

i have run HSD s13 front end and i couldnt fault them in the short time i used them, perhaps the lack of adjustment (only 12 point). those 'stance' coilovers even appear to have the same cambertop design as BC (or BC have the same as them). the custom compact sleeve kit however, i wasnt too enthusiastic about, didnt fit snugly over the strut tube and the supplied spring was too short.

i can only vouch for what i have used myself, that being the s13 front HSD ** coilovers and the AE86 BC V1 coilovers, both were faultless in the times i used/assembled them. GREDDY has the history and the recognition behind them so they will continue to sell, and cheaper brands will always be there to pick up those looking for a cheap setup/willing to give things a try.

-dan

[driftke70]

your a tripper

[--Redwork--]

BC also come inverted aswell for 86... Juat can't find any info ATM... 86 isn't even listed on there American website.. LOL

[kaibeecee]

your a tripper

how so?

[resol]

BC also come inverted aswell for 86... Juat can't find any info ATM... 86 isn't even listed on there American website.. LOL

BC are not american, they are taiwanese. the V1, BR, ER are not inverted, they make maybe 1/2 dozen different coilover types, but im not sure on the specs of all of them.

inverted mono tube is not stiffer, is not stronger, and doesnt 'feel' different. the advantage of the inverted dampner is that the seals are self lubricating. for some applications this is a great advantage, for others it make no difference, and for some its even a disadvantage.


-dan

[--Redwork--]

I know they're not american.. I was just looking on the american website is all..

And yes they DO make inverted models...
And I'm sure I've seen inverted 86 ones for sale some where.

[Nic19]

would a bilstien shock in a custom welded on sleeve coilover kit be better than these anyway? what are the advantages of a kit like this anyway? i know rears would be nice but im talking in terms of front set-up

[sundee]

i honestly wouldnt bother... in the end its your call.. i would and have, built up my own, buy a good insert and u will never have any issues. yeah they might cost u a bit more but in the end u have a great reliable setup.

say u spend - 500 on inserts (front)
300 on colilover kit - few to choose from.
then camber plates - i can supply for 255 delivered.

total - 1055

just a comparison for you....

if u just want it for ride height and dont care how its going to drive or how long its going to last then get the china crap.. it is cheap after all, but cheap for a reason.

[fantapants]

dont really know how fair that comment is sundee...

you start off by listing how cheaply a "good" homemade setup can be, then finish with "cheap for a reason" in regards to china stuff... ( realised you werent pointing out how "cheap" they can be built )

lots of comments from people who have had nothing but good experiances with hsd would give strong weight to the fact the product is above the average "china" quality.

HSD has been used in many top flight drift and grip cars around the world, but very popularly in the uk under the driftworks brand.

Also, add in a rear setup for costings and your not far off the hsd price, but with a lot of convinience for those who dont have the ability to knock these things together, or the talent to choose componantry that will work well together ...

not bitching :) or having a go, just sayin :P

[Anthony]

Main advantage of upside down shocks is unsprung weight.

[sundee]

i honestly wouldnt bother... in the end its your call.. i would and have, built up my own, buy a good insert and u will never have any issues. yeah they might cost u a bit more but in the end u have a great reliable setup.

say u spend - 500 on inserts (front)
300 on colilover kit - few to choose from.
then camber plates - i can supply for 255 delivered.

total - 1055

just a comparison for you....

if u just want it for ride height and dont care how its going to drive or how long its going to last then get the china crap.. it is cheap after all, but cheap for a reason.


dont really know how fair that comment is sundee...

you start off by listing how cheaply a "good" homemade setup can be, then finish with "cheap for a reason" in regards to china stuff... ( realised you werent pointing out how "cheap" they can be built )

lots of comments from people who have had nothing but good experiances with hsd would give strong weight to the fact the product is above the average "china" quality.

HSD has been used in many top flight drift and grip cars around the world, but very popularly in the uk under the driftworks brand.

Also, add in a rear setup for costings and your not far off the hsd price, but with a lot of convinience for those who dont have the ability to knock these things together, or the talent to choose componantry that will work well together ...

not bitching :) or having a go, just sayin :P

Sorry fantapants id just like you to point out for me the part where i said building a home made pair of coilovers was cheap??
I did say however
yeah they might cost u a bit more but in the end u have a great reliable setup.

[biggo]

these are the exact same design as BC and a few other brands. dont go fooling yourself, it takes one engineer to design these things and then a few people to turn that design into a coilver setup. so brand to brand difference wont come down to the idea, or the design, but to the quality of the build, and the shocks that are used.

the BC stuff is mono-tube but not inverted, so the adjustments are at the top within reach. might i ask those who are preeching about inverted shocks, why they think they are so good... (i know they are better in some circumstances, just asking peoples opinions).

i have run HSD s13 front end and i couldnt fault them in the short time i used them, perhaps the lack of adjustment (only 12 point). those 'stance' coilovers even appear to have the same cambertop design as BC (or BC have the same as them). the custom compact sleeve kit however, i wasnt too enthusiastic about, didnt fit snugly over the strut tube and the supplied spring was too short.

i can only vouch for what i have used myself, that being the s13 front HSD ** coilovers and the AE86 BC V1 coilovers, both were faultless in the times i used/assembled them. GREDDY has the history and the recognition behind them so they will continue to sell, and cheaper brands will always be there to pick up those looking for a cheap setup/willing to give things a try.

-dan

I think you fail

BC are weld on, HSD are a complete assembly not a kit like BC/G4/D2

[fantapants]

i edited it after giving it a reread :) the bit in the brackets and the bit down the bottom on reason for editing

[kaibeecee]

i'm down with any company that produces NEW stub axles for quarter century old cars.

be happy there is still an aftermarket!

new - open box, install. done.

[biggo]

be happy there is still an aftermarket!


So true. And its in your own country no less!

[Nic19]

Well with the home made set-up it's the best quality shock compared to something cheaper from china like in the hsd. I feel I would rather spend the money on the best quality stuff for a custom setup than a lil more to get the Chinese set from hsd.

[Dylan]

Thought HSD are made in Korea?

[slydar]

i really dont think the dampners in the hsd are sub par to a trd/agx/hts.. pretty sure the hsd shox are totally serviceable. hts are definately not.

i would tend to agree. you can get the same performance from the normal coil over style, the platform ajustment isnt all that neccesary. youll probably only ever adjust it once.

also pete..


your a tripper


how so?

pretty sure that was a jab at me pete.

ill bite :)

yes there was a batch that werent a tight fit. i spoke to the supplier about it and its just a case of them sourcing material from one of 2 places. either way, it shouldnt matter. you can leave the but joined weld a little proud and that will center it. etc. the ones im about to use on my own car are from that batch.

as for the springs being short. well theyre going into corollas.. how much travel do you think you need? i order them shorter for this reason. having the spring higher gives more room for wider rims/ high offset rims too. plus its lighter. you cant cure spring float with a longer spring, you need helpers.

also.... theyre cheap. ill say it right now. koni sleeves are better quality. but mine work, and im able to sell whole front coilovers built with agx inserts for less than $900. front coilovers are pretty much the most drastic change you can make to your car. there are other things that are important, but coilovers are the most expensive. reducing the price of coilovers as much as possible really cant hurt.

anyway totally O.T.

[driftke70]

i wasnt jabbing at you d, i was just saying bc is clearly different sourcing.

[slydar]

yeah nah, i know. ol' mate.

[resol]

Anthony: "Main advantage of upside down shocks is unsprung weight."

umm what? thats got nothing to do with the fact they are upside down, the wieght is the determining factor of unsprung WEIGHT....so umm what?


nic19: bilstein are german, have a great reputation, and a life time warranty?. they are full rebuildable as well. but you pay big $$ for this

BC, HSD, and some KYB are fully servicable, are much cheaper then bilstein and do not offer the same warranty.

IMO a sleeve kit is not as good as the full kits for 2 very clear reasons
1) these full kits have the front and the rear SORTED, with a matched pair of shocks, and springs that will work well with no stuffing around (other then setting heights etc)
2) the front struts are BASE HEIGHT ADJUSTABLE, this means you can raise or lower the height of the car without using helper springs (which are a lame idea), or running uncaptive springs.

biggo: i think you will find that stock AE86 struts are welded to the stub axles....so at some point the HSD ones will have been also. the only difference is the the HSD ones comes WITH the stub axle and the BC require you to supply and fit your own (and they are cheaper because of this).

the design however is EXACTLY the same, judging purely from the pictures.

im a huge fan of this design whoever came up with it, hats off to you sir. to be fair im a little surprised it took this long show up considering how prolific this macphurson strut design is, and how much it has been used in all forms of motorsport.


-dan

[driftke70]

upside down design allows for less weight, thinner materials, less materials, ect.

Motorcycles proved upside down was the way to go many moons ago.

[Vance]

upside down upside down

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200907/r392580_1836527.jpg

[slydar]

resol, i will explain a few things.

the part of the front suspension, that is fixed to the body, is not unsprung weight. in the case of a regular insert. this is the chrome shaft section (also the spring hat). with an inverted dampener, it is the body/oil etc. which part weighs more?

also, base height adjustment does not mean you dont need a helper. base height adjustment means you have a wider range of ride height adjustment, and better control of your stroke (where you want the piston to be at static).

for a car to handle correctly, you need a certain amount of droop. with the spring rates we run, it is not possible to have the correct amount of droop without a helper spring, and still have captive springs.

the front half of a corolla will only compress even a 6kg spring about 50mm. 50mm is insufficient.

drive a car with stiff springs and helper springs, and one without helpers. its day and night. drive a car with fuck all droop. and one with enough... same thing.

[Nic19]

hey slydar do your kits have helpers?
is an 8kg/6kg set-up too stiff for a corolla? wouldnt you be flexing the body heaps with such a stiff spring set-up in the weak body of a E7??
would a softer spring rate, say 6kg/4kg but with sway bars to stop body roll be a much nicer set-up? allowing the suspension to take bumps yet still have minimal bodyroll?

[slydar]

i dont supply them with the kit. but i can source them or point you in the right direction. theyre easy to add later.

i do supply you with the right length spring, so you can add them easily later.

[resol]

slydar: ya after thinking about it more your right about the unsprung weight being less with the inverted tube. as for helper springs that more a personal thing, i like a stiff suspension setup(when i rode bikes i had rigid's so i guess it followed through :P ).


-dan

[slydar]

umm so yeah. if you run stiff springs, you need helpers more. the the weight of the car cant compress the springs as much. so if you run your springs "captive", you wont have enough droop.

[driftke70]

basically what ive finished doing a week or two ago and got my head around after alot of doodling.

[kaibeecee]

but keep in mind that you have to run a helper rate thats relative to your spring rate.

[Vance]

but keep in mind that you have to run a helper rate thats relative to your spring rate.

explain relative.

if its the same rate as your spring it will essentially just make your spring longer.

if its softer than the spring it will compress first with the shock and then the spring will compress.

this will give the shock the amount of stroke it needs.

essentially it will give an effect like a progressive rate spring.


i feel we need to open a new topic of progressive spring rates vs fixed spring rates vs fixed spring rates + helper springs

[kaibeecee]

relativity - as in fluctuation of main spring rates, the helper reflects it.

ie.

harder spring rate - harder helper.

for circuit racing, the tender spring pound rating should be about 20% of the main spring weight.

[Kid Karola]

Bit late, but if the spring rate K of Helper is 20% of 8kg/mm spring = 1.6kg/mm that's still 90lbs seems high (like OEM spring rate in 86). Or did you mean if the Main spring weighs 5kg the Helper should be 1kg?

Helpers are rectangular cross section wire too (while main spring is larger Ø round wire) as you want the coils on the helper spring to bind completely under the vehicles own weight (so it doesn't doesn't effect damping) and if the suspension is fully unloaded, they should extend to keep the spring captive (so enough K to counter the unsprung mass of the suspension).

Maybe you're thinking of a progressive spring rate? They show a similar effect as the coils bind (less active coils increase rate) the spring rate can go up by around 20%?

It was mentioned by both HSD/Stance were released after 2 years R&D. Interestingly the Greddy and DG-5 (Kei-Office before Ogura Racing Clutch took over) were released in 2007... so it took 2 years to reverse engineer them! lol scepticism aside, I'm still waiting to get an answer about the damping of the HSD units (compression/rebound figures) but after 2 years of R&D you'd think this is data that would be on hand. Afterall the dampers are more critical then the spring rates.

For those wanting installation pics there is a thorough thread here on Club4AG on the DG5 (http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=12628) also worth noting that they were originally twice as much as the Greddy ($3000 -$1500)

[Kid Karola]

hey slydar do your kits have helpers?
is an 8kg/6kg set-up too stiff for a corolla? wouldnt you be flexing the body heaps with such a stiff spring set-up in the weak body of a E7??
would a softer spring rate, say 6kg/4kg but with sway bars to stop body roll be a much nicer set-up? allowing the suspension to take bumps yet still have minimal bodyroll?

6K Front and 4.5/4.7K rear is firm but not bone jarring uncomfortable in a street car. Strut braces will help reduce flex. +8/6K is more suitable to track and drift applications where roads are rutted with potholes.

Also I agree with Slyder in Post #66 (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showpost.php?p=196079&postcount=66) :thumbup: