Jubiride Lateral rod bracket

[jdm86gtz]

Car - AE86

motor - 4A

use - Suspension

problem - Identification

occurs/started when -

personal situation -


These for the chassis side I take it, do they lower the mount?

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/8/31850.jpg

[--Redwork--]

Its used for altering the rear roll center...
And it attaches to the diff...

[jdm86gtz]

Similar to Cusco weld on jobbie so.

[Kid Karola]

Lowers mounting point of the lateral rod like so:

http://www.jubiride.com/upload/FO02-20071228133924-1.jpg http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/1/1/9/30934.jpg

[Sam-Q]

I don't quite understand how this can share a mount with the lower damper mount when the shoulder of the pivot is flush with the edge of the bush? creative idea though

[Kid Karola]

Here's another view to better illustrate.

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/1/1/9/36208.jpg

Sam if you look closely at the inner plate - the hole that goes over the shock mount is larger - hence locates around it. This still allows the shock bush to sit flush. And only requires a slightly longer bolt to account for the addition thickness of the outter plate.

[Sam-Q]

yes I know what you mean now, this is typical of the Japanese approach in that they go so far out of their way to do something to make still a bolt on job.

[stylz]

whats the advantages to this tho?

[pen15]

yes i am also interested

[Kid Karola]

OK See where the panhard-rod (lateral-rod) mounts to on the left? The 3 holes on the bracket allow you to adjust the rear roll center by moving the mounting point down about 25-50-75mm .

Imagine when you lower your car - what happens to the panhard? Firstly it shifts the diff housing further to one side as it moves upward along an arc. Most people will fit an adjustable panhard to remedy this, but this only re-centers the diff.
Secondly the lateral rod is no longer horizontal but points upwards, which adversely effects the rear roll center. By shifting the diff side mount down* can correct the geometry of the panhard which should be horizontal (similarly to fitting an RCA under front struts on lowered macpherson strut to correct geometry of the suspension arms) and hence adjust roll center.

*or the chassis side of the panhard mount up.

If you've driven a very low car without decent rear alignment you'll notice that it feels different turning left to right. As the weight shift loads/unloads the suspension cornering, increasing/decreasing the angle of the lateral rod and hence shifting the diff left/right more than it already is.

Also when a car is excessively low, there is further geometry issues with the std unequal length 4-links, basically trying to twist the diff snout around on its head. "Traction Brackets" help on the lower links, but there is limited space for realigning the shorter top links. Hence equal length 4-links allow them to be closer to parallel, and move together, rather than against each other. This gives better alignment of the diff with the propshaft/transmission. And with fine tuning the length and mounting points on adjustable 4-links, anti-squat and anti-dive characteristics can also be considered, but this is a whole new discussion unto itself.

[Kid Karola]

Here is a slightly different approach to the same end...


Weld on piece made by Cusco, welds to diff side of panhard rod, lowers mounting point 25mm.

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/7426/rearroll.jpg (http://img130.imageshack.us/i/rearroll.jpg/)


Also the body side mount could ideally be offset by equal amount.

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/1/1/9/30939.jpg

For more rivetting reading see these threads: Equal Length 4-Link (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=13274) & Watts Link vs. Panhard Rod (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=13445)

[Sam-Q]

I find it odd though that my car has been lowered to the point of having about a 10mm gap between the top of the tyre and the gaurd and the pan-hard is perfectly flat.

[sundee]

That Jubiride design wins for sure! cant go wrong with more adjustability

[Konakid]

So would lowering the rear roll centre effectively stop my car from wanting to oversteer more when turning right than left?

Or is that more of an equal 4 link issue.

[Kid Karola]

Short answer yes with an if, long answer no with a but...

The roll center height has been shown to affect vehicle behaviour at the initiation of turns i.e initial roll control and nimbleness
(response and sharpness).
The roll stiffness balance front/rear can be altered to encourage oversteer-neutral-understeer to limit the maximum lateral acceleration
(cornering capabilty) of the vehicle.
But the roll center & roll stiffness alone are not the only contributors to a cars cornering dynamics and changing them will only do so much.
The design/geometry of the suspension members, spring/dampers rates and tyres grip (friction) all need to work together.

[slydar]

yes I know what you mean now, this is typical of the Japanese approach in that they go so far out of their way to do something to make still a bolt on job.

once you have worked on cars long enough, you start to realize its a really good way to go about things. the car can always be returned to stock should it ever need to. or if you decide the mod doesnt suit you for whatever reason later on, you can just remove it. etc etc.


I find it odd though that my car has been lowered to the point of having about a 10mm gap between the top of the tyre and the gaurd and the pan-hard is perfectly flat.

whats so odd? are you trying to infer this is an unnecessary modification? some people like their cars as low as possible. their are plenty of good reasons for this apart from the fact that it looks nice.

i like about 60mm or so of ground clearance. i find it a totally workable ride height for street driving. its not beyond the scope of simple modifications to get the suspension geometry working, it looks nice, and i have a super low CG.

my last car had a similar mod (adjustable height for the PH bar). car handled amazingly. there is plently of good info on the net that suggests getting the PH bar as low as practically possible on a road car is a good idea.

[Sam-Q]

Ah Dimitri we have another misunderstanding. I like the bolt on approach where applicable, like my 20v bits, no stupid slots or holes in the head, just bolt the plates on. I was purely referring to the fact that this product shows some very creative thinking on how to implement something to be bolt on that normally isn't. Sometimes this one thing though is a curse such as in the case for turbo dump pipes and some body bracing products. Total failure in my eyes shown as example in something like that "bolt on" watts link conversion kit. Just for the record this particular product seems to be good to me. It braces itself in the main plane of force so it should work well.

Now the reason I was surprised that my rear pan--hard was level is because I would of thought that the stock height would have it level. I really don't have that much of an understanding about it but my logic says that a zero degree angle would mean the least amount of lateral movement with either suspension movement. I would of expected the bar to be facing up on mine but it doesn't that to me means that Toyota thought that facing it down on purpose would be of some benefit for them. So I am confused, any ideas?

as for very low cars, I don't know enough to comment, I do know though that the rear suspension can be totally compensated for for any ride height which I think you did anyway right? Legalities and that only keeps my car at 110mm

[slydar]

standard the p/h bar points down.

the suspension is very soft as per stock. so to get the least variation ( of lateral location of the diff) from static, with the amount of travel the vehicle uses (due to the soft springs) they have it pointed down.

so it moves from down, to flat, to slightly up, and back again. so it moves (when facing the diff from the rear) slightly left, then back again to slightly right as it moves past level.

rather than just moving right in the case of the bar being level at static. not so much of an issue with the reduced travel of a stiffer set up.

this is my understanding of it anyway.

[hachi_dk]

anybody in aus sell these jubiride lateral rod brackets?

[Sam-Q]

standard the p/h bar points down.

the suspension is very soft as per stock. so to get the least variation ( of lateral location of the diff) from static, with the amount of travel the vehicle uses (due to the soft springs) they have it pointed down.

so it moves from down, to flat, to slightly up, and back again. so it moves (when facing the diff from the rear) slightly left, then back again to slightly right as it moves past level.

rather than just moving right in the case of the bar being level at static. not so much of an issue with the reduced travel of a stiffer set up.

this is my understanding of it anyway.

sounds like a fair statement to me.

[cracker]

does anyone own one of these brackets? maybe some copys should get made up and possible a group buy

[slydar]

you can buy the cusco one off ajps etc.

jubi ride have a web site and they sell parts direct. some us mail order places also carry the brand.

[hachi_dk]

didnt know AJPS sell them.
i will look into how much they are worth.
thanks D

[sundee]

http://www.rhdjapan.com/jubiride-lateral-bracket-ae86-levin-trueno-59448

[Kid Karola]

Also the body side mount should ideally be offset by equal amount.

As Celica RA45's (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showpost.php?p=217279&postcount=14) rear end demonstrates

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8530&d=1265273331