4age carb how to?

[Pidgey]

Ok, so i've been contemplating the use of carburetors on a future build and summing up think it's a good idea. carbs= no overly expensive management, good response with the right tuning, easier (don't quote this though) to tune than an ecu, and you still get to hear that sweet sweet induction noise without mucking around with ITB's. converting a 4age to carb sounds relatively straightforward and I'm sure a couple people have done it on here so please show a run through of how to convert to carb.
oh, and i like pictures :D
thanks.

[Dylan]

Not overly hard to do.
What you'll need:
A manifold. Redline make these ready to go to suit sidedraughts for Big and Smallports
You'll need to thread the injector ports, and block them off
You need a low pressure fuel pump,and regulator (around 4psi)
Then you need to think about the ignition setup. Couple of options : A brand new distributor made to suit with centrifugal advance, or use the standard distributor with this
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/TOYOTA-4AGE-3SGE-PERFORMANCE-IGNITION_W0QQitemZ200421624873QQcmdZViewItemQQptZA U_Car_Parts_Accessories?hash=item2eaa0f4c29
and then playing around with setting up the linkages.
I'll post up some pics, any more info you need?

[Dylan]

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/4451/photo0109u.jpg (http://img13.imageshack.us/i/photo0109u.jpg/) http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/photo0109u.jpg/1/w640.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img13/photo0109u.jpg/1/)

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/6/7/33185.jpg (http://img705.imageshack.us/i/photo0110.jpg/) http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/photo0110.jpg/1/w640.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img705/photo0110.jpg/1/)

I haven't got any pics of it going together though unfortunatley.

The manifold doesn't come with any mounting hardware, so I had to source studs.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/NEW-MANIFOLD-STUDS-REDLINE-LYNX-SIDEDRAUGHT-WEBER-DCOE_W0QQitemZ270403192939QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Ca r_Parts_Accessories?hash=item3ef549486b
Theres probably a few things i've missed, If you want part numbers for stuff PM me
Here a few links that I found helpful:
http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=11565
http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=359

[R&D Mechanical]

Good thread

[todd]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=13613

might also be worth looking into if your collecting up bits for a carb setup.

[shift_rook]

dylan your carb setup wins so much, so damn tidy

[Dylan]

Thanks Chris

[KENut]

What about carb choice?
I worked it out a while back, I reckon ideally you'd have 43mm throttles (from memory). From a choice of either 40mm or 45mm dellortoes, which would be better? Better low end with 40's, better high end with 45's?
I guess what I'm saying is, could you use 40mm dellortoes if you werent after high revs

[Dylan]

40 seem to be fine for use with standard cams, 45s for aftermarket cams. Depending on the jetting

[KENut]

Cheers Dylan, makes sense

[Hen may possibly be a nut]

It's all pretty straight forward. You need some stuff to make your carbs bolt up, then you have to think about ignition. There are a few choices. From memory:
- Keep stock dizzy, use some ignitor from a Corona and you get locked advance.
- Retrofit a 4K dizzy and get mechanical and vacuum advance and points.
- Put EDIS guts from an Escort?? into your stock dizzy, use a ignition box and get programmable ignition.
- Use a full aftermarket ignition computer.

Hen

[Pidgey]

Thanks heaps to Dylan and Hen.
p.s Dylan your carb set-up is immaculate, what carbs are they?

[Tim.duncan]

i had a set of dellortos for my previous car and really struggled to find new parts ie jets and imolusion tubes. If you want side drafts My advice would be go webber just for ease of parts. there is a rally good book out there which will tell you how to set them up for the right size and jets and everything else, well worth the purchase and read if you are going this path

[Pidgey]

dearly noted, thanks.
I'm thinking of going in a different direction though. What if someone was to put motorcycle quad carbs such as Yamaha R1 or similar on a 4age? obviously linkages and a manifold would have to be custom made but have people done this? what diameter etc carbs would be ideal?

[Dylan]

Mine are Mikuni-Solex Type T, which I believe were taken from an 18RGU Celica

These are bike carbs mounted to a 4AC, same sorta idea though
http://4ac-powered.forumotion.com/engine-f2/mikuni-sidedraftsftw-t79.htm

As Tim said Weber are the go for being able to easily source brand new parts, jets etc

[Pidgey]

Awesome, thanks. Do you think it would be worthwhile going bike carbs? or just going down the twin weber route

[Pidgey]

something such as this would work yeah?
http://www.motorcyclecarbs.com/Keihin_FCR_Horizontal_-_Yamaha_C627.cfm

[Dylan]

There doesnt seem to be a whole heap of info on these carbs related to the tuning and setup on a 4AGE. Because of this I would go the convential sidedraughts

[Pidgey]

It seems you're right about that one. Just a thought though, something a little different.

[KENut]

Theres some reasonanly priced ones for sale at the moment too, on here

[nebuchernezzer]

What sort of power/response/etc are people getting out of their setups?
Dylan up there, how's yours go?
Feedback, comparison to modded EFI motors?

[Dylan]

I havent driven a EFI 16V 4AGE in an AE86, but compared to most small fwd twincam engines it feels more powerful. Mine is tuned well, idles nice even when cold, and has a smooth power range.

Some members on here have driven both EFI and Carb and said that carbs went harder

[doots]

bringing up an old thread here but this is exactly what i'm looking to do. does anyone have a build thread they can link me to? i'm extremely amature when it comes to carbs as my 4k is my first non efi engine. i take it you cant use coilpacks on a carb or do you need they ignition unit thingo? can you use an electronic dizzy off a 4k? theyre a fairly expensive upgrade would it be worth it?

in terms of fuel pump it needs to be low pressure does that mean any stock pump will surfice? how much pressure does the stock 86 pump put out?

any help will go a thousand miles (Y)

[Dylan]

You could use the electronic dizzy to run the ignition. With the fuel pump it needs to be a low pressure type, the standard 86 fuel pump is attached to the 4AC engine so when converting a 4AGE to carb you need a aftermarket low pressure fuel pump (Facet, Pierburg, Carter, etc), around 4 psi pressure. On a 4K you may be able to use the standard fuel pump as it is still attached to the engine your working with

[hf86]

Has anyone here using the KEIHIN FCR on their 4age?? Im looking for the intake manifold for the fcr but cant find any.. Can anyone source me where to get 'em??

[sotiros86]

Im pretty sure Buddyparts used keinhin fcrs on his coupe. Ebay america had a few fore sale last time i checked, or if not have a look on yahoo auctions, or you could always get one made. Also depends whether you are running a bigport or smallport, as there seemed to be a lot more smallprt manifolds last time i checked

[skin]

just got myself fully rebuilt set of 45mm webbers on 4age mani with linkages all set up, but im chasing more info on the ign side of things, few options listed here but not really much info on doing them.
Anyone had any first hand experience that can reccomend something?
How hard is it to fit up a 4k dizzy?

[Dylan]

Can't really help you with fitting the 4k distributor, but you need to use an adaptor to space the distributor up.
What I would recommend is contacting Performance Ignition http://www.performanceignition.com.au/, send them your 4AGE distributor drive gear, and they will send you back a complete distributor with centrifugal advance ready to go in. These guys really know what they are doing and I would highly recommend them. A few people on here have these distributors.

[skin]

you sir are a legend

[skin]

any idea on price why im at it?

[Dylan]

around $500, I got a new coil from them aswell

[blair]

I have a complete guide of how to do the 4k dizzy setup. There is a Bloke in the states doing a "swap over" for around $300US.

Basically involves making up two spacers, one for the body and one for the shaft.
And cutting off the 4a gear and welding it onto the 4k shaft in the right spot.
there is also a bit of effort involved in the mounting/adjustment part of the dizzy.

The other way is just to use a regular 4a dizzy, and a standalone ign. controller that has a built in curve.

[skin]

Rang them today was very helpful, sending dizzy off tomorrow 1 week tunr around 520 bucks and you got mine carb ing set up with timing advance why sutff around with 4k shit

[Hen may possibly be a nut]

I was going to use a 4K dizzy because it is essentially free. And entirely mechanical.

If anyone's interested I have an old drawing of an adaptor for 4K dizzy to 4AGE head. Never used it, but should hopefully work.

[skin]

ae82 bigport engine, webbers foul on the coolant outlet, is eveyrone running RWD cooling set ups?

[Dylan]

Not me, im using FWD stuff i'll get you pic of mine sometime today. I remember it was close

[skin]

thats that would be good, i found a new rwd water out let but of course i loose my alternator mount but i could fab something up no worries. I will get pics up but i think my problem lies in my linkages, i have like a big round thing with holes in it for adj spring tension right on the side were the water out let is, its quite big i really dont want to have to re do my linkages :(

[skin]

this is being the biggest prick, spent couple hours re doing all my linkages so they run off the other side of the webbers and they still foul on my fwd water out let but not the rwd one although its very close... i cant understand how it fould on mine and not others lol

[Dylan]

Hey mate, i've got a pic on the first page of this thread, that help?. Mine is running a different linkage setup though. Not sure how other people have done this without anything hitting.

Get some pics up of whats happening

[skin]

so there is, that water outlet looks differnt to my fwd one, maybe its a ae92 one? my outlet to radiatior head straight up when bolted on and is quite chunky, linkages are now well out of the way its fouling on the thread that comes out the side where you can bolt your linkages to, im might run the rwd outlet and fab up a alt mount

[Dylan]

I would still like to see some pics of your setup

[skin]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/0/0/550356.jpg

[skin]

last night i re did it so the linkages run off the other side of the carbs, its that big round thing with holes in it thats the problem lol, but even without that the threaded shaft that it bolts onto very nearly fouls, i think i can fix it with a flapper disk to my water outlet its sooo close

[Dylan]

Hmm, havent really seen a linkage setup like that before. I've found some other setups though

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/6/7/50509.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/6/7/50510.jpg

[skin]

yea right, mine seems to be working good now, quite happy with its, took some work to reverse it all though. Does the ae86 throttle cable normally fit?

[Dylan]

I had to use a ke70 throttle cable with mine, stock 4ac one too short.

Good to hear its working out for you

[skin]

getting them running right, that could be another thing lol

[stixy]

Ok so I know this is a bit of an old thread, but I'm going down this path with my 4age and I was wondering if anyone has come up with an alternative ignition setup yet?? Can MSD be used or even an XR400 fireball electronic ignition setup?? Just curious is all