N2 race car engineered?

[spazworm]

This is a bit of a stupid and very open eneded question but, basically i want to do up my 86 as an N2 racecar but still have it registered. I realise there are some of the mods they do that cant be legalised. what mods can't be legalised that they do.

[Eircamae86]

What exactly to you intend to modify to make it an N2 car?

[spazworm]

basically as much as possible, 10 point rollcage, dry sump, fuel tank in the centre of the car, boot flooring replaced, quad throttle bodies, lumpy ass cams surge tank, all superfluous structure reinforcement, carbon fibre/fibreglass whatever i can, 15x9 inch rims basically anything you might see on the Tec Arts N2 Build (http://speedhunters.com/archive/2009/08/06/car-feature-gt-gt-tec-arts-ae86-n2-project.aspx).
Need to know what is off limits as far as being able to get it engineered and registered in South Australia.

[rthy]

im pretty sure u can get it engineered, but to get registered?

[Kid Karola]

How deep are your pockets? The cost of getting it "engineered" will be tiny compared to building anything close to N2 spec.

ps. just read you are in SA. then you can pretty much rule out a road reg "N2".
you would get raped by the constabulery for even having 15x9's let alone many of the other parts you mention.

[s14seriesII]

you can not remove any of the original body work or sheet metal from anywhere in the car.. therefore half the cars here are not legally street registered

you can fit the flares but you cant go over 25mm of the origianl track width

roll cages can sometimes be registereble depends on whos looking

there are more things but thats a start to give you an idea

edit:
technically you cant have a rim size wider than 7.5 inches..
this is because the biggest tyre legally is a 195/50R15 the widest rim you are legally to fit a 195 to is a 7.5 inch...

[spazworm]

great... my bubble is officially busted haha. oh well i guess ill just do what i can or have a pure track day car. I dont really have any limits on what im going to spend by the end, Ill just go a bit at a time.

[hachi_dk]

get it registered before doing all this and hope you dont get busted?

[lo_rolla]

Get it registered stock, then go nuts, drive it til you get defected (or what ever you get in SA) then track only it...

[Andy San]

The above two guys have it, my car was a daily driver before it got modded, I could just renew the rego on it if I wanted to street drive it again. Would be a bit pointless though, seeing as it would last about 5 mins before it got defected.

[ke_70]

you wont last long in sa
i got done 15 day after getting it off regancy defect and it only had 15x8s and lowered

[Jonny Rochester]

I think a registered car should have the stock steering colum (collapsable), the standard dash (foam), standard door cards or of similar non-metal material. And a spare wheel with a place to securely put it, plus a jack. Wheels and tyres can't stick out from the bodywork. Tyres shouldn't be touching the bodywork. Exhaust has to exit after the door and not stick out from the bodywork. Exhaust has to be no louder than 90db or whatever the limit is (you need a muffler).

But if the average joe built a car replacing every joint with a rod-end, 12kg/mm springs, removed the brake booster, removed the exhaust, did all the brake lines himself including the hydralic handbrake, then fitted 310 degrees cams and Weber sidedrafts... it would be such a shit car to drive it wouldn't be funny.

[fantapants]

beau... not that beau, but i think his id here is magic man, was dailying his n2 replica for a while, this was in sydney and was a few years back...

if the plod is that bad in sa, then no you wont be able to do it, but i know here in qld, by not acting like a cock i get away with a lot :)

also tech arts is 17 x9

[mack 10]

You will be fine dailying a N2 spec car in sa what are you talking about.

[4000GT]

Man you guys have it rough over there. You can drive a fully spec'd race car on our roads if you have an authority card (basically a form you fill out if you have a track car to warrant standards to say you will drive it on the road, then you can), or get a cert, take to a guy that sayd the mods wont kill anyone, then you drive on the road as is.

[Kid Karola]

It's one thing to have a modified car engineered and registered, a complete other to have a race car that can be "street driven" (usually to/from/during specific events or garage for maintenance/repairs) which still requires a permit. As Johnny mentioned a dedicated race car is going to be a pig in traffic, not exactly something you can fire up to pick up some milk and the paper in.

It would need to be built to conform with some form/class of racing (N2 wouldn't be eligible for IP...) Regardless of class first you'd need a CAMS licence, be a member of a CAMS affiliated car club, get the car CAMS log booked all before you can compete, so getting race/rally reg is just part of your mission if you choose to accept it.

No one is going to stop you from building it, but there are a few things you should think about. As a self confessed "indecisive daydreamer" you have your work cut out for you, so get as much info as you can before you embark on your project. Good luck with it!

[ke_70]

whats so bad about driving a race car on the road
the clutch would be the only annoying thing if you have a heavy one or a really light flywheel

[nzae86]

Here is a link to my N2 build , it would pass a wof here in NZ , but driving it on the road ?? .It may give you an idea of what is involved in a true N2 car. Got a large pile of money spare ?

http://www.aeu86.org/viewtopic/nzae86s-trd-ae86-n2-race-car--project-2/t/6171/start=0

[mack 10]

Im in the process of getting rally reg for my gravel 86. Its not easy. nuf said

[Kid Karola]

whats so bad about driving a race car on the road
the clutch would be the only annoying thing if you have a heavy one or a really light flywheel

Clutch? try getting off the line with 300 degree cams... 5000rpm launch every time? Noise, vibration, harshness - you might want to wear ear plugs as you'll look like a tard wearing a helmet driving on road. Bone jarring suss and heat inside cabin will take it's toll too, it will be fun for about 10 minutes.

NZae86's car is a true N2 build - you're looking at over $50K + spent there not including labour! (I'd say that you're average stripped out Corolla is far from race spec)

[Delazy]

Clutch? try getting off the line with 300 degree cams... 5000rpm launch every time? Noise, vibration, harshness - you might want to wear ear plugs as you'll look like a tard wearing a helmet driving on road. Bone jarring suss and heat inside cabin will take it's toll too, it will be fun for about 10 minutes.

NZae86's car is a true N2 build - you're looking at over $50K + spent there not including labour! (I'd say that you're average stripped out Corolla is far from race spec)

:thumbup::thumbup:

[Rice86]

another dreamer?...

[spazworm]

Hmm well after some consideration, im still pretty determined, ill see if i can do everything im allowed to do, it wont be 100% n2 spec but yea.
I live about 45 mins drive from town when theres no one on the road, plenty of hills and hill routes for me to get anywhere, i highly doubt ill be that bothered with being uncomfortable.
Though getting my car registered and then doing the mods is a great idea and my origional plan, i registered my car and was driving it for two days before the cops pulled me over and defected me for having 3 out of 4 taillights working, seat belts that dont retract fast enough, not quite enough tread on my tyres and the engine looked oily (ive had it in the garage for 5 weeks and not a drop of oil on the floor). The cops down here are total dickheads who unfairly target the young, dont let you get a word in edgewise, make fun of your car and have no respect for you at all. I had to say to them "yea yea just give me the papers and go" before my anger took over and i slogged them. GOD THEY MAKE ME ANGRY!!!
As far as money goes, I have a decent job as an electrican, i have no gf, live at my parent's house and have a bunch of friends who just like watching movies that we download, needless to say i end up with alot of spare money.
NZae86, ive read your post like 5 times over in the past its omg amazing! great work.
I know Tec Arts has 17's but id prefer 15's tbh.
Seriously... QUOTE "it will be fun for about 10 minutes." a race car? seriously? I get in a new car with luxury interior perfect air con and the most comfortable ride ever and am BORED TO DEATH, I like simplicity + purpose built.

To finish off since this weekend i have another reason to want to do this, to have a car that looks defectable but is not in any way, have the cops pull me over and i can give them a mouthful for wasting my time as i show them my roadworthy. Also, i may be a dreamer, but i may not be, I dont even know, only time will tell.

[ke_70]

5000rpm launches just not to stall it? im no expert and only drive a 4k but thats a pretty gutzy launch can see is stalling at 4500

id take an uncomfortable race car any time. BUT i dont live in the city so im driving in the 80-100 km/h range most of the time not 30min traffic jams

[Frak]

Clutch? try getting off the line with 300 degree cams... 5000rpm launch every time? Noise, vibration, harshness - you might want to wear ear plugs as you'll look like a tard wearing a helmet driving on road. Bone jarring suss and heat inside cabin will take it's toll too, it will be fun for about 10 minutes.

NZae86's car is a true N2 build - you're looking at over $50K + spent there not including labour! (I'd say that you're average stripped out Corolla is far from race spec)

and what about the first gear, to get used to having a close ratio gearbox fitted start taking off in second gear in your current car, cos that's what it's like! watch this, Keiichi's car is running a 5.375 diff ratio and a TRD5 gear set with 2.3 first gear, doesn't get off line very good, imagine this in peak hour traffic AND having even less bottom end torque than Keiichi's car, but hey if you do it, nothing like a proper race car on the street ;)
vqYnBCXXM08

Back in the late 80's very early 90's my daily was an RX3 coupe fitted with a Peripheral Port 13B, first on Weber IDA, then fuel injected, it was running an RX4 four speed with a hollinger gear set (2.33, 1.77, 1.33, 1.00) and a 4.88 diff ratio, this was in an era before the cops were nuts defecting but even still the sight of a cop car made me break out in a sweat. Now you'd be totally screwed!

[redsprinter]

stick to a n2 bodykitted trd schemed ae86 with a black top 20v . because thats as close as anybody will ever get to the real deal unless your in the position like nzae86 with all the hook ups and a very deep pocket.

[Kid Karola]

... I registered my car and was driving it for two days before the cops pulled me over and defected me for having 3 out of 4 taillights working, seat belts that dont retract fast enough, not quite enough tread on my tyres and the engine looked oily... (ive had it in the garage for 5 weeks and not a drop of oil on the floor). The cops down here are total dickheads who unfairly target the young, dont let you get a word in edgewise, make fun of your car and have no respect for you at all...

To finish off since this weekend i have another reason to want to do this, to have a car that looks defectable but is not in any way, have the cops pull me over and i can give them a mouthful for wasting my time as i show them my roadworthy.

Honestly if you got defected for that, how long do you think you will last with a race car on the road? No matter where you live or drive, the cops don't even need a reason to defect you these days. Even with a "roadworthy" or cleared defect notice, they can suspect you've changed something since it was issued and send you back to Regency Inspection anyway. Giving them attitude won't help you either, you'll be getting your car towed away.
I'm not trying to cut you down mate, just save you a lot of hassles, time and money. Before you go about an epic N2 build, check all the basics off the list - straight chassis/no dodgey repairs, no structural rust, no fluid/oil leaks, no smoke, decent tyres, working lights, horn, wipers etc all go without saying.




Seriously... QUOTE "it will be fun for about 10 minutes." a race car? seriously? I get in a new car with luxury interior perfect air con and the most comfortable ride ever and am BORED TO DEATH, I like simplicity + purpose built.


I like simplicity and purpose built too, but there's a time and place. If you're going to build a race car proper, drive it on the track. If you want the best of both worlds with something seriously modded and still drive on road legally you will have to compromise a lot of aspects. First step make some enquiries to Transport SA vehicle modifications. Next prepare a detailed plan and contact a recognised consulting engineer that deals with certifying modified vehicles to discuss what is and isn't going to be achievable. Most C.Eng's will charge you by the hour and the entire process, from design calcs, testing and documentation will be reasonably costly one (upwards of a couple grand) it's more involved then the yearly roadworthy cert in the eastern states and a mod plate.

Here's a non exhaustive list of things to mull over.

You must retain heater and demister. Luxurious trim can be removed, but seats must meet ADR and mounted on an approved rail, likewise seat belts/harness must also comply to relevent std. They won't care if you get rid of your A/C so long as it's de-gassed by a professional (not to let CFC's into the atmosphere :P) If your cabin is stripped out (all that insulation was there for a reason i.e. to reduce temp and noise) you'd be surprised how hot the bare metal floor/firewall will get - it can melt the soles of your shoes, well your passengers shoes anyway. Jump in your car after it's been sitting in the sun all day and that's close to what it will be like for extended drives.


FRP guards and panels and polycarb/acrylic windows definitely won't pass. But if you want to achieve the N2 look, the overfenders maybe OK but the wheels will need to be within the specified track. As mentioned max legal wheel size will only be 15x7.5 +15 (std size is 13x5.5 +27) which is the max +2" width/diameter and increase of 1/2" offset either side, +25mm max to total track. This won't be near filling out N2 arches like 15x9 & 15x10 most N2 cars use today (You can't run wheels that wide for IP either, governed by both overall width 8" for 2l class and control tyre size/profile). *Tec-Arts and CBY don't use 17" wheels in official N2 races now, reverting to 15's although they might still appear in some exhibition races with larger rims. (The orginal N2 cars in the mid 80's only used 13x8 & 13x9 wheels)


Suspension wise adjustable coilovers won't pass, they'll need to be fixed i.e. welded! You can fit lower springs which must remain captive and maintain 2/3's of original suspension travel (eyebrow height would be a grey area with flares?) with min 100mm clearance from lowest point under car. Spring rates and shocks are pretty free to do what you like :) Not sure about aftermarket fuel cell, but EFI, pre-pump, surge tank etc will need to enclosed and ventilated. Emissions control, breathers, charcoal canister and catalitic converter must remain intact. Exhaust noise will need to be capped at 90dB so muffler is a must and side exit pipe will be a negatory (although Xmm behind door/window opening, it will hang too low anyway.)
Any brake mods will need to be Engineer approved, brake lines need to be retained with factory clips and braided lines need to be ADR approved.


Can I ask if this your only car? because it's going to have a fair bit of down time from initial build to ongoing maintenance. High strung race motors need a lot of care and attention, they need to be rebuilt reguarly (measured in hours not km's) A few people mentioned the daily drivability of any cammed up engine is going to be a chore. Yes they can rev to over 10,000rpm in some cases, but with very narrow power band requiring short gearing to keep it on the boil. All that top end comes with consequence of little torque or power at low rpm. You could get equivilent power at lower rpm with forced induction at less cost and more longevity, but then it wouldn't be naturally aspirated N2 goodness ;)

N2 motors with 320 degree and very high lift cams, modified cylinder heads, oversized valve train, external oil pump and dry-sump lubrication, forged rods and billet crank shaft, high compression pistons, needs high octane fuel (expect high fuel consumption too) For more N2 details get a copy of the TRD Corolla Bible (note: many of these parts are no longer available or special order only and ridiculously expensive) NZAE86 was lucky enough to base his build on an ex-Formula Atlantic motor, these sort of things are quite hard to come by. Short of TRD & TODA there are a few others tuning houses (Tec-Art's, CBY, KMS) that offer some of these parts. Also google: Hasselgren Formula Atlantic. If you have to ask the price you probably can't afford it.

[timbo]

^ one of the best posts ever, really puts things into perspective and makes me want a n2 spec car badly! good work!

and best of luck to you spazworm with all you n2 endeavours! i really love read anything about n2 cars, just some much attention to detail on a 1.6l motor. and im really surprised with the wealth of knowledge people actually have one here and that are willing to share it, kudos chaps.

[Rice86]

if you really wanna make fun of the cops and show them up

buy a Honda Civic and put a drift sticker on it, when they pull you over and try defect you for having a standard car with a drift sticke, obviously you drift cause the sticker says so, you just laugh and then truely tell them to fuck off

[spazworm]

Oooh great post Kid Karola, very helpful info, cheers. Yea im pretty much sticking to, getting it as far as i can but legal. Outside im gonna make a little more stock than the TRD N2 tbh, im thinking custom front quarters with widened fenders and bolt on rear fibreglass fenders. Gonna go for a pretty standard bumper with the extra front lip and all finished off in panda. Yea when i said N2 i didnt mean TRD N2 i meant as far as how much work has gone into it. but with my own style on the outside, hopefully making it look a little more stock, slightly sleeper. As far as parts go though i havent thought of everything my mechanic said he wont have any problems sourcing forged internals, i have heard that some really good welders out there should be able to take my standard sump, cut and weld it nicely to use as a dry sump. Cams i havent looked into.
One thing yous have to realise is that im an electrican for a living, a large part of my job includes spending hours and hours in the roof on 40 degree plus days with temps in the roof reaching 70 degrees and higher, suffice to say, i can handle the heat.
I have a work van that i drive to work aswell so really, this isnt my only car.

Anyway cheers for the input guys, feel free to post any additional info that you think might help or voice your opinoins coz im happy to read. Just don't think your gonna be able to make me give up :P

[Slimer86]

[QUOTE=Frak;226228]and what about the first gear, to get used to having a close ratio gearbox fitted start taking off in second gear in your current car, cos that's what it's like! watch this, Keiichi's car is running a 5.375 diff ratio and a TRD5 gear set with 2.3 first gear, doesn't get off line very good, imagine this in peak hour traffic AND having even less bottom end torque than Keiichi's car, but hey if you do it, nothing like a proper race car on the street ;)

N2 motor with 320 deg cams and 10+mm lift could be an interesting combination on a NS cruise trying to get up the Corkscrew off the boil.

[shinobi]

The best race cars for the street don't look like race cars..

[focus_7]

We need more NZ'ers posting on this forum.

[MAGIC MAN]

just stumbled across this by accident and thought i might be able to help, in NSW now the rules for modded cars has been turned on its head \, no one wants to take responsibility or liability for work carried out on modified vehicles. Not sure about SA rules but the work i did have to do to get my old n2 car rego'd was extensive to say the least. i believe i read someone on here saying just put a 20v in it and a n2 kit on it. Thats not bad advice really and it would be the easiest way to do it.

But just as an example heres some of the things i had to do to get mine passed.

Adjustable front lower control arms and rear trailing arms with rose joints, i had to provide an xray report of all the welded suspension arms which obviously had to be crack free. The rose joints had to be of a one piece design (as aposed to the press together three piece cheaper units) with a PTFE liner and i had to provide all load testing data from the manufacturer.

To enable the wider track to suit the N2 flares i had to provide load test data for the wheels bearings to show the they were upto the task of handling the higher wear and tear caused by the now wider track.

Pedal box assembly with no booster, i had to hire a race track for the day so the effective stopping distance co be measured as well as the pedal effort required to stop the vehicle from high speeds.

Roll cage, yes it did have a full cage at that time they were still kind of allowed to be in registered vehicles but i had to keep it as physically close to the A pillar as possible with minimal visual impact to blind spots, this would require a cage to be custome made to your car not a cheaper Safety 21 style the doesn't fit the car very well.

Shocks and springs, when you lower the car you need to return the geometry as close to orignal as possible, not the easiest job but can be done. also the head and tail lights must be a certain height from the ground so thats something to keep on mind to, not to mention bump stops you have to have them basically and the car can't be sitting on them.

Heated front screen, another thing that is a must, you can't just pull all the heaterbox out to make it look more race.

Horn, wipers the list goes on.

airboxes are where most people get into trouble, with quads people just put socks on and think they are fine, there not the air filter must be fully enclosed and no part of the body ie inner guard etc... can be used as the box it has to be literally a fully enclosed box with an air inlet obviously

So if you get it all passed then there is the next problem driving it. I loved driving my old one, never once had any issues with the law as such most of the time they just wanted to check it out for them selves. The issue i had was other people on the road, every dickhead was always trying to race me or they'd drive like tools to catch up then cut in front then jump on there brakes and shit. The other fucked thing is there a jealous people out there and don't like other people having nice things so they fuck yours. I once caught a guy opening my bonnet while the car was parked then when i confronted him as too what he was upto, he had a go at me. Not the best situation to be in alone. Or even the countless times i was followed or chased by car loads of guys wanting to take the car. i had a knife pulled on me at a set of lights by a guy trying to jack my car. i got over it pretty quick. Sure its nice to have a car thats different or unique but it always comes at a cost.

[timbo]

The last paragraph sounds all to familiar... Good input though.