Universal 3sge (inc Beams) into AE/KE thread

[Panda BVB700]

thanks mate might just try find an original one

[Sam-Q]

I now have Beams full gasket and seal sets in stock as well:

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php/69479-Gasket-sets-4age-and-3sge-beams-inc-TRD-head-gaskets

[dove grey 64]

My car currently has the ST20v, with power steering (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=power+steering) and air con. Whats your opinion or advice on installing the Beams with the air can and p/steer too.
I can get custom a/c lines and s/pump lines made, but what about pressure differences from one pump to another?
How will that affect the steering.
Can i install a restrictor in the line to hold pressure at the rack desired level, or is this all going to be too much trouble, and untidy in the bay?
The factory Beams setup isn't the cleanest bay to start with, and i'm after a very clean and tidy engine bay.
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php/65256-TCCAV-Melbourne-Meet-quot-Cars-Coffee-and-Donuts-quot-21st-August-2011/page3
check in there t-nol, i couldnt link the pic for some reason, there is a black wide bodied beams 86, cleanest install i've seen

[skin]

1.So if you use a 20v starter and do the modifications required to get it to bolt up, the gear on the starter motor drive is the right tooth count/size?
how do people go with aircon/ps delete, easy enough to get the right belt?

2.whats the conclusion with brake and clutch master etc
With standard intake and with quads what is the "norm" as far as what fits and what doesnt, and what is the easiest fix

3.confirming that all standard beams flywheel clutch and throwout set up will work find with a w series gear box?

4. If running standard intake with an adaptronic there is throttle cable provision and no FBW set up is needed?

5. As far as the swaybar goes im concluding that if you run with unmodified trans tunnel and w series gearbox you can justtt squeeze it in without getting a different sway bar?
or not lol


This thread is great, but damn it needs some of the solid info put into one place

Thanks in advance

[t-nol]

1. From what they've said, the "pitch" of the gears is correct.
2. I have seen a beams with standard clutch master, but it has a remote resevoir done by just adding a line in the middle of the two
3. Not sure, but from what i can gather, the standard engine has a dual mass flywheel which is better to be replaced, but i haven't split mine to confirm yet
4. Not sure
5. Can squeeze it in, but need mods to the rear of the sump to clear the rack. Sump needs to come off and get cut'n'shut.

This is by no means written in stone, but only from details i have obtained so far, i am yet to go through most of this although i will be retaining the J160 box, so i won't know of starter issues.
I definitely agree, there needs to be a 1,2,3 of this conversion done, in easy to understand steps. but i think everyones just too damn happy driving them to bother, lol.

[ehendrikd]

2. I have seen a beams with standard clutch master, but it has a remote resevoir done by just adding a line in the middle of the two

Here was my solution:

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/1/9/9/310840.jpg

Staff at the local Enzed outlet were helpful in finding threaded adapters for the standard AE86 clutch master resevoir.

[Celica RA45]

you can always get a 1 off made up sway bar ,this is what i had done to fit..... bottom of the pan near the rack just take off and cut with grinder and make it flat right across ,i think anthony had a 6 speed in his ,the box it self is smaller than a w57 supra ,its just the bellhousing that goes for miles .
power steering would be ok and the same with the air cond ,it wont make any difference

[Aram]

Hi everyone,

What size exhaust pipe did you guys use?
I am refabricating the original manifold to fit, but after that I am making everything new.
First up is the 2 pipe section, after that it flows into one pipe.
Use standard size is best I guess?

@Celica RA45
I had my propshaft shortenend a bit more to match the play of the original AE86. :) (see aeu86)


Kind regards,

Aram.

[sundee]

So no posts in this thread for a while, ive done the full run through.

the stock ECU was slightly touched on, mentioned something about cluster integration, but does anyone know whats needed to get the factory ECU running nicely in a corolla?
is it an absolute mission? only reason i ask is i have my eyes on a beams 3s that comes with the factory engine harness and a Power FC.

[ehendrikd]

Hi everyone

Just a quick question on Beams 3SGE wiring, on the original loom it appears that the coil packs are earthed through the RF frequency suppressor to the head, however this earth also connects to an unknown plug on the loom. Would it be sufficient to leave the coil packs earthed solely through the suppressor? The engine is being rewired from scratch to an Adaptronic e420d.

Cheers

[s14seriesII]

Hi everyone

Just a quick question on Beams 3SGE wiring, on the original loom it appears that the coil packs are earthed through the RF frequency suppressor to the head, however this earth also connects to an unknown plug on the loom. Would it be sufficient to leave the coil packs earthed solely through the suppressor? The engine is being rewired from scratch to an Adaptronic e420d.

Cheers

Nope.. The suppressor is just that.. A suppressor !

[ehendrikd]

Thank you for the reply.

Also upon closer inspection of the old loom, it appears that the coilpacks positive is connected to the frequency suppressor, rather than the earth, unfortunately contrary to a statement earlier in this thread.

[assassin10000]

EDIT: misread my notes on my harness.

Andrew

[ehendrikd]

Thank you for the information, however I think I am now somewhat confused. Here is a top view of the my old loom wiring for coilpack 2:

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/1/9/9/379811.jpg

According to Sam-Q's coilpack page:

http://s-86.com/s-coilpacks.html

If the plug clip is upright, then the above is correct, from top to bottom the wires are earth, trigger, feedback and positive, which appears to be confirmed by the earth connector to the head on the top wire. And in this case, the RF frequency suppressor was connected to wire junction which connects to the coilpacks positive.

I also understand that the suppressor is used to reduce signal noise to some sensors, however I don't know how they actually achieve this. Is the polarity actually an issue?

Thanks in advance

[assassin10000]

Yeah... so I screwed up when I was looking at my notes. The RF suppressor is hooked to the positive side of the coil pack harness and grounds itself through it's mount. It's basically a capacitor that dissipates excess voltage/current that can backfeed (and cause EMI/RFI) when the coils fire (IIRC).

Andrew

[ehendrikd]

No worries, thank you for the feedback, it is most appreciated.

[Tbo92]

Just wondering, is there much of a difference between the 3sge beams and the gen3? Apart from ones awd/fwd and the other rwd, like the sump clearance for cross-member and steering rack to mount low as possible.

[s14seriesII]

Just wondering, is there much of a difference between the 3sge beams and the gen3? Apart from ones awd/fwd and the other rwd, like the sump clearance for cross-member and steering rack to mount low as possible.

If you mount your engine on a 30 deg angle the same as a gen 3 motor then maybe the sump will work.. But gen 3 to beams sumps are same design principle but much different in shape

[ke_70]

so thinking of ditching my 6sp in favour for the old w58.

whats the go with the clutch? can i use the standard beams clutch with the w58?

[Celica RA45]

yes you can,but need the w58 carrier thou for the throw out

[ke_70]

ah very good, would that mean i'd need a w series specific throwout bearing?
or reuse the altezza bearing on the w carrier?

as i think the os giken use special thrust bearings to suit their clutches.

im also looking at dry sumping my engine also. can anyone recommend a desent oil pump?
thinking this one probley?
http://www.jegs.com/i/Peterson-Fluid-Systems/615/04-3062/10002/-1?parentProductId=1528519
3 stage with 1.4'' rotors
would i be best off with a 1.2'' rotor on the pressure pump?

[Slimer86]

OS use a Nissan thrust bearing as do orc. If you are using an OS clutch kit,that clutch should fit,but get a Nissan thrust bearing for the w box carrier.
Unless the OS is a whole lot longer than the w series.
I'll pm the part number for the bearing clay. Jap import spares have them on the shelf for 55.

[ke_70]

ah sweet thanks :)

[Celica RA45]

new beams head with quads of 50mm and 2 stage etc new cams which are 14.65mm of lift and 263 duration at 50 thou 1.5 teeth of vvti .std beams cams have 3 teeth of cam pulleys of movement
new exhaust 13.8 mm of lift 259 duration at 50 thou 1.5 teeth of vvti
redesigned head changed port .valves and new different quad throttles ,end result picked up power from 4000 right through to 9000
also torque has increased as well ,torque now starts to drop off after 8000 earlier head torque had dropped from 7000

[ehendrikd]

Hi everyone

Just wondering if there would be any reason we are not seeing any oil pressure when cranking a Beams 3SGE? We have tried priming the oil filter and cranking with plugs removed and injectors unplugged to try and build the pressure while cranking. I have read that a 3SGTE can take up to 6sec idling before the oil pressure light switches off, and also that the oil pressure relief valve may be stuck.

Thanks for any advice

[assassin10000]

Stock pressure gauge or aftermarket?

Stock won't register when cranking usually.

Andrew

[ehendrikd]

Thanks for the reply, we are testing with a mechanic's specialized pressure gauge connected directly to the oil pressure sensor port on the engine.

I have had some feedback on the AU/NZ Altezza forum that the oil pump may need to be primed with vasaline, we are also going to try connecting a drill to the oil pump gear with the timing belt off.

[Celica RA45]

when im building 3sge beams race motors always prime oil pump with a 12mm socket on the end of a drill then put the belt on the motor to set cam timming

[ehendrikd]

Thanks for the advice, oil pressure came up fine within a few seconds of spinning the pump with a drill.

[zacha86]

Hey guys just after some info about race/high quality 3sge engine builders. Is there anyone in Adelaide who can build proper 3sge's? And has multiple builds to prove it? Also who is a high quality tuner in Adelaide? Or am I going to have to get one built interstate? Who are the go to guys..

[AJPS]

Hey guys just after some info about race/high quality 3sge engine builders. Is there anyone in Adelaide who can build proper 3sge's? And has multiple builds to prove it? Also who is a high quality tuner in Adelaide? Or am I going to have to get one built interstate? Who are the go to guys..

yager performance have built some proven IPRA engines

[Frak]

Adam Allen at Mallala, Allen engineering only place to go, has an engine dyno and down many many hundreds of engines over the years, building and tuning.

[Aram]

Hi guys!

I finished my project, it's on the road again but there is still work to be done. :)

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/6/9/2/0/503098.jpg

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/6/9/2/0/503099.jpg

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/6/9/2/0/503100.jpg

But I have a question.
It wouldn't idle when I first started it, so I set the throttle position sensor to a different position.
I was told by someone it should run on 2.5 bar at idle, but it just wouldn't run properly under throttle.
So I read in this thread and on billzilla's site the pressure should be 62psi which is 4.2bar, so I slowy fed it more pressure and sure enough it ran better and better.
But now it has the tendency to drop below 800rpm whenever I let go of the throttle when say, I come up to a corner.
So it "saws" up and down a few times and then settles back at the normal rpm, and I really don't like it.
Any ideas of what causes this?

Aram.

[Matt]

That sounds like it is stalling, tps or fuel surge is where I'd start looking.

Nice car too mate, I love the colour and the beams looks real nice in there

[Konakid]

Far out that looks almost factory, nice work!

[Aram]

Matt, I wondered why I had to change the tps position in the first place, did you have to change that too?
It just wouldn't idle before that, and is there anyway to chang it back to original position?
Maybe we forgot to hook up some things?

Also when I went up to 4.2 bar idle went up from 800 rpm to almost 1500rpm, which was good imo, because I could set the tps back a bit.
But I waited a few days to long I think because the idle is back at 800rpm again.

What could cause the fuel surge?

The color was a bit of a gamble but it turned really well imo. :)

Konakid, I was going factory look indeed, thanks. :)

[DR86FT]

Another mounting question

I have a 4agte setup with w box with correct shifter position and f series diff.
Was just wondering will the engine be in the right position if I leave the gearbox where it is and do the 3y bell with modified 20v starter.

And has anyone got mount kits for it?

[Sam-Q]

Another mounting question

I have a 4agte setup with w box with correct shifter position and f series diff.
Was just wondering will the engine be in the right position if I leave the gearbox where it is and do the 3y bell with modified 20v starter.

And has anyone got mount kits for it?

Try posting your question here:

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php/24094

[DR86FT]

Sorry Sam I forgot to mention the 3sge beams not the 4agte, later on when I do the 3sge I remove the engine and bell housing. Put the 3y BH and 3sge in

Just the positioning of it . Would it be ok ?

[Sam-Q]

I don't mind I just thought you would get more usefull advice there as the engine mounting for a beams is different for every install so it's hard to get a reference.

[assassin10000]

Aram,

Remove the vacuum line to your FPR. The BEAMS ecu want's a STATIC fuel pressure, not one that changes with vacuum. See if that helps.

Andrew

[Celica RA45]

he has fixed it andrew ,he played around with the tps and now he has put it back where it was and its much better

[Aram]

True the dipping has gone now but the pressure still rises under throttle.
So this is still a good point. :-)
Should I just detach the hose or really shut it off?

[DR86FT]

I don't mind I just thought you would get more usefull advice there as the engine mounting for a beams is different for every install so it's hard to get a reference.

Thanks Sam ill give it a go on the other thread

[assassin10000]

True the dipping has gone now but the pressure still rises under throttle.
So this is still a good point. :-)
Should I just detach the hose or really shut it off?

Detach from FPR and plug on manifold/throttle.

Andrew

[Aram]

There are 2 hose attachements on the throttle body, one on top and one on the bottom I connected them is that ok, or should they be separated?

[assassin10000]

I can't remember, I'd plug them seperately just in case. I doubt it's a problem though. You could always put a piece of wire through the hole and see where it ends up (as long as it doesn't have too tight of a bend), and if they both end up in the manifold it's a non-issue.

Andrew

[ehendrikd]

Hi Everyone

Just a quick question about the 3SGE Beams standard alternator, upon researching I found the plug was very similar to the 5SFE alternator:

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=66477

And I wired it according to this thread:

http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/tech-conversions/55790-5sfe-wiring-issues-later-model-engine.html

Pin 1 = L = Charge Light
Pin 2 = IG = Ignition
Pin 3 = S = Sense Wire

When the engine is running I am seeing 14v so the alternator is working, however the issue I am having is that the charge light wire does not switch to earth when the ignition is on and the engine not running (no charge light). Could anyone please confirm this wiring is correct, or if this is expected behavior?

Thanks in advance
Evan

[assassin10000]

It's a standard plug, the round plugs are all wired the same as other round plugs... ditto on the Oval plugs. Standard Denso voltage regulator.

Light wire should ground through a bulb (proper resistance).


Andrew

[Matt]

On the later models the L is connected to the ecu

[zacha86]

This may seem like a very obvious question to some but I have seen it run both ways and not sure why..which direction (north/south) is the feed & return line when running a return fuel set up with out of tank pump and adj fuel reg on a 3sge? Which order are the injectors flowing? Seeing as it is normally not dual entry I'm confused..

[ke_70]

can enter either side. i've run mine both way no issues.
as long as there's fuel at pressue it'll use it.

[4.5AG]

What is the ideal thickness of the plate used between engine subframe and chassis rail to lower the Beams engine on an AE86?
Cheers,
Vener

[fantapants]

ideal.......0

what will allow you to fit the engine..... as little as possible lol....

[s14seriesII]

Ideal would be none, as it messes with controll arm and castor tod angles.. Space the bonnet up instead ? I'm not sure what hits ?

[Tim.duncan]

Mine fits with out spacers

But it's tight

I'd try everything before spacing the cross member

[Aram]

I have 5mm spacers, and my engine still fits under the bonnet without cutting anything out and with all cam covers on.

[4.5AG]

Thanks for the info Aram..would 5 mm make a big difference in handling?

[Sam-Q]

I have heard reports from unreliable sources that used the JST F20C install kit in their cars with a set of 51mm spacers and they say it's not that bad at all. Also remember this can be completely corrected with longer roll center adjusters.

[Aram]

Not that I can tell no.
But you can always adjust 5mm imo, people usually change the suspension anyway when undertaking such a big project.

I used the BEAMS engine mounts, made 5mm plates on the subframe, I also hammered the subframe down a bit in the middle so the engine fits better.
And I tilted the engine like it does in the Altezza, not sure why they tilted it but I figured they had their reasons so I did it also. :)

[4.5AG]

[QUOTE=Aram;915447]Not that I can tell no.
But you can always adjust 5mm imo, people usually change the suspension anyway when undertaking such a big project.

I used the BEAMS engine mounts, made 5mm plates on the subframe, I also hammered the subframe down a bit in the middle so the engine fits better.
And I tilted the engine like it does in the Altezza, not sure why they tilted it but I figured they had their reasons so I did

Aram, was the LH and RH mount plates on your engine support exactly mirror image, meaning the distance between the centre of the engine support to the Beams engine mount bolts are the same LH and RH?
Cheers,
Vener

[Aram]

I actually only measured the distance from the crack pulley to the chassis rail.
But I also made the holes stretched for any small corrections later.

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/6/9/2/0/505626.jpg

Here is a link to the build:

http://www.aeu86.org/viewtopic/ae86/p/139203#139203

Greets,

[Miikka.]

Im considering what engine to drop to my ae86. I have done some research regarding beams swap to ae86 and i know that it needs fair bit of modification to get it fit. My biggest fear is regarding the beams oil pan and its ground clearance. How low beams oil pan is versus stock 4age oil pan if the beams is sitting as high as it can with still original hood without any holes. I would start swapping beams right away but id like to keep my corolla as low as its now without always risking oil pan :D

Sorry for bad english, im from Finland :P

[KurtHS]

Just get a Volvo 360 isn't that what all Finnish people drift? Hahah!

... but seriously Finland looks like an awesome country!

Do you have the seisou?

[Miikka.]

I know only few 360 projects in here, i think thats more uk thing :D Finnish ppl drift soarers, 200sx and skylines i think :p


What you mean by seisou? :D

[KurtHS]

Yeah I was just making generalisations about European drifting! haha!

I don't know I heard Mika Hakkinen say something about it! I thought you'd know.

What I meant was sisu.

[Miikka.]

Yeah I was just making generalisations about European drifting! haha!

I don't know I heard Mika Hakkinen say something about it! I thought you'd know.

What I meant was sisu.

Ah, Sisu stupid me :D I dont know if i have sisu, im kinda lazy lol :P

"Im considering what engine to drop to my ae86. I have done some research regarding beams swap to ae86 and i know that it needs fair bit of modification to get it fit. My biggest fear is regarding the beams oil pan and its ground clearance. How low beams oil pan is versus stock 4age oil pan if the beams is sitting as high as it can with still original hood without any holes. I would start swapping beams right away but id like to keep my corolla as low as its now without always risking oil pan :D

Sorry for bad english, im from Finland :P "
Anyone?

[Futo_gt86]

Im considering what engine to drop to my ae86. I have done some research regarding beams swap to ae86 and i know that it needs fair bit of modification to get it fit. My biggest fear is regarding the beams oil pan and its ground clearance. How low beams oil pan is versus stock 4age oil pan if the beams is sitting as high as it can with still original hood without any holes. I would start swapping beams right away but id like to keep my corolla as low as its now without always risking oil pan :D

Sorry for bad english, im from Finland :P

If you haven't already read this do
http://www.billzilla.org/AE863SGE.htm

[assassin10000]

1.5-2" lower. Depending on your mounting solutions. Maybe only 1-1.25" if you don't mind really really working for it.

[Powerbite]

Quick question, when using the stock ECU and loom with the RS200 3SGE is the original loom long enough to run it into the car rather than having the ECU and box inside the engine bay? Noticed on the link to the 6 speed one they appeared to run the loom into the firewall

[assassin10000]

Nope.

Its routed so it sits in an ecu box in the lf corner of the engine bay.

Andrew

[Powerbite]

Nope.

Its routed so it sits in an ecu box in the lf corner of the engine bay.

Andrew

I understand from factory that's how it comes, so what do you think they have done with that red one provided on the front page? Extended the loom?

[grappletech]

Im no expert but im pretty sure that with a little knowledge, you could could do this yourself. The harness im having done will have the ecu extended to the facory 4ag ecu moun.

[assassin10000]

Had to have been extended.


If extending wiring, make sure that any shielded wires (cam sensors x2, crank sensor x1) are done with fresh shielded wires. And the shielding is grounded properly.


Andrew

[Powerbite]

Had to have been extended.


If extending wiring, make sure that any shielded wires (cam sensors x2, crank sensor x1) are done with fresh shielded wires. And the shielding is grounded properly.


Andrew

Alright sweet, thanks for that!

[DR86FT]

Does the 3y bellhousing need to be out of a tarago or can it be out of a hilux. I've been searching havent found much. Also the hilux has a 3y motor with a w52 so I am assuming the bellhousing bolts up to the w55's etc.

[japlish]

3y is 3y, no differance

[DR86FT]

well i went to the wreckers pulled the box off the engine and had a look on my lunch break and found will not suit w55 box. I should have known this from the w50 look of the box itself but I took my chances and failed. WAHHHH

[Aram]

Hi guys,
I met this guy in Uruguay and he has made a oilpan that gives a bit more space between the street and the car, something I am pretty desperate for.
It looks pretty nice and it could work nicely I think, but what are your thoughts?

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/6/9/2/0/514057.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/Tranquill/media/66497_10151156413853515_2068127518_n_zpsd081c10e.j pg.html)

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/6/9/2/0/514058.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/Tranquill/media/421268_10151112087968515_1675615334_n_zps7a80e04f. jpg.html)

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/6/9/2/0/514059.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/Tranquill/media/527558_10151112086858515_1106422108_n_zps0f50939e. jpg.html)



More pics here: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151110380993515.449586.55746628514&type=3

Aram.

[Sam-Q]

I can't imagine that holding much oil let alone sealing because of the thin surface material combined with the high degree of welding

[Aram]

He says it hold one liter more than standard.
And if I make it the flange will thicket of course.
I was wondering more about the layout/principle.

[assassin10000]

I like. Make it and make me one? Also you could incorporate a similar upper baffle/plate like inside the stock pan. It goes around the oil pickup and helps keep it from sloshing up and away.

I don't know about your motor but mine sits pretty much level, not a few degree tilt like factory in the altezza.

Andrew

[s14seriesII]

Not too dissimilar to that fitted to sr20's.. So should in theory be fine

[Aram]

I like. Make it and make me one? Also you could incorporate a similar upper baffle/plate like inside the stock pan. It goes around the oil pickup and helps keep it from sloshing up and away.

I don't know about your motor but mine sits pretty much level, not a few degree tilt like factory in the altezza.

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

My engine is tilted, I noticed they had it like that in the Altezza so I figured it probably had a reason.
Altough I don't know the exact degree of tilt of course.
A friend of mine has the engine without tilt like you so if he wants one too we can make one extra for you too, no problem.

I could use a standard oilpan to begin with but they are almost impossible to find seperate here in Europe. :(
But the top baffle plate should not be a problem, I was actually thinking more in the line of the cosworth Subaru baffle plate: http://lateralperformance.co.uk/product.php/158/90/cosworth_baffle_plate_subaru_impreza


Aram.

[Powerbite]

Just curious, is there any other blocks that can use the Blacktop 3SGE head? If so has anyone done it yet?

[Sam-Q]

Just curious, is there any other blocks that can use the Blacktop 3SGE head? If so has anyone done it yet?

all 3S and 5S blocks, the 5S is a nice option

[Powerbite]

all 3S and 5S blocks, the 5S is a nice option

Advantage of a 5S block?

[Sam-Q]

Advantage of a 5S block?

I don't know if they fixed it in the Gen 5 blocks but the earlier 3S blocks couldn't handle much before breaking. The 5S blocks are much stronger and start off with an 87mm bore instead of a 86 and there is the potential option of using the 5sfe crank as well to make a 2.2L engine

[Powerbite]

I don't know if they fixed it in the Gen 5 blocks but the earlier 3S blocks couldn't handle much before breaking. The 5S blocks are much stronger and start off with an 87mm bore instead of a 86 and there is the potential option of using the 5sfe crank as well to make a 2.2L engine

Awesome, thanks!

[fantapants]

there are oil gallery issues with the 5s i think sam that mean getting the vvti to work is very complicated maybe impossible???? pretty sure old mate glenn looked into and came up with not gonna work...

[Sam-Q]

oh I see, I didn't know that. Hopefully James here hasn't gone out and bought himself a block already

[AJPS]

5s put you out of the under 2l class if you are interested in racing

[Clasyk]

I saw back a while ago that a guy with a RA23 fitted the J160 with no modification to the tunnel besides the gear stick. Assuming it fitted his Celica, would you think the J160 would fit in a RA65/SA63 tunnel with no modifications?

[INVSBL]

im mid way through getting my beams + 6 speed into my AE71 wagon

cars getting 4 link with R31 diff also.

couple questions if thats cool. i wanna run ITBs my best option is looking to be get Black top ITBs and an adapter. can anyone recommend the best ecu to use, im happy to do something with a full loom that wires into factory plugs ect, so iv been looking at the adaptronic e420d.

to go with that, which tuning shops in vic would be best to tune a 3sge, as i dont trust my self with any of that.

also where can i get a speed reading from for a speedo?

also, can anyone recommend a clutch/flywheel to use with the gearbox if the dual mass isnt a good idea for drifting?

Thanks, Adam.

[Celica RA45]

try chasers in kensington and use a supra box speedo drive and your cable will connect up and i sell the trd copy adapters with cable bracket etc

[Powerbite]

5s put you out of the under 2l class if you are interested in racing


oh I see, I didn't know that. Hopefully James here hasn't gone out and bought himself a block already

I didn't thankfully, yeah my intent is to go racing with the car eventually, but just a few club days/regularity for now.

Just more brain picking, what Australian delivered cars have the same parts? Rather than forking out and buying 'listed' RS200 stuff. Eg; IS200 clutch, 97 SW20 Timing Belts

[Matt]

kaizen garage do a plug n play loom to suit the adaptronic.

[Sam-Q]

I didn't thankfully, yeah my intent is to go racing with the car eventually, but just a few club days/regularity for now.

Just more brain picking, what Australian delivered cars have the same parts? Rather than forking out and buying 'listed' RS200 stuff. Eg; IS200 clutch, 97 SW20 Timing Belts

that's good, it would really bother me if someone wasted their time and money because of my misinformation. Now for your question I don't know how clutch compatibility is however the timing belt bits are all different. That said though I can supply you every part on the engine genuine. I have on the shelf every cam drive part, water pumps, seals, exhaust gaskets and oil pump. The timing belt kit has the belt, hydaulic tensioner with it's own pulley and the two extra pulleys, this is $230 or 340 with a complete water pump and housing.

[Powerbite]

Alright so car is almost ready to go but now iv noticed that the BEAMS is a returnless fuel system.
Now, am I right to run one fuel line with an EFI pump to the stock input on the rail or am I going to have issues?
If its all good what PSI, 60?
cheers

[Powerbite]

Alright so car is almost ready to go but now iv noticed that the BEAMS is a returnless fuel system.
Now, am I right to run one fuel line with an EFI pump to the stock input on the rail or am I going to have issues?
If its all good what PSI, 60?
cheers

Disregard this now, decided I wasn't going to be happy without a return

[grappletech]

What clutch/flywheel kit and setup is everyone using?. I know there are other applications that can be used. I have been looking at the exedy kit. With lightweigh flywheel and pen replacement clutch.

Has any one used a(n) 22rT kit? I'm looking for cheaper options that still give quality results

[Major Clod]

Wondering if anyone knows if the speedo cluster is required for optimal performance when using a factory ECU on a manual Blacktop Beams?

In particular the speed sensor signal being sent to the ECU (in the Altezza the sensor goes from gearbox -> cluster -> ecu)

I've read some other toyota engines (eg 4A) have a similar issue where if the factory ECU does not pick up a signal from the speed sensor, it may drop the rev limiter, enter limp mode, etc..?

I've also had it mentioned to me in person that the Beams does this too.

Anyone have any experience with this?

[INVSBL]

Hi Everyone

Just a quick question about the 3SGE Beams standard alternator, upon researching I found the plug was very similar to the 5SFE alternator:

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=66477

And I wired it according to this thread:

http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/tech-conversions/55790-5sfe-wiring-issues-later-model-engine.html

Pin 1 = L = Charge Light
Pin 2 = IG = Ignition
Pin 3 = S = Sense Wire

When the engine is running I am seeing 14v so the alternator is working, however the issue I am having is that the charge light wire does not switch to earth when the ignition is on and the engine not running (no charge light). Could anyone please confirm this wiring is correct, or if this is expected behavior?

Thanks in advance
Evan


was gonna write up a question then this semi answered it.

so if i was to wire this up in my car, id run
Pin1 to a light that turns on when the alternator is not performing properly.
Pin2 feeds when i turn the ignition on
Pin3 sense wire, i have NFI what this does or what its wired too, car will have an adaptronic ecu if that makes any difference.

also with the starter motor, can i just run a heavy gauge wire from battery to its solenoid plug, then run a switch wired to the input plug?

this is the only bit of wiring im worried about as the rolla im putting the car into has zero wiring at all, apart from the adaptronic and loom for that.

[Matt]

Splice the sense wire into the thick charge wire.

and yes 12v input into the input starter wire via a switch will work. That's all the push button start / key is.

accessories is killed usually to ensure the starter has as much power as possible during starting

[INVSBL]

saweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet. thanks!

one step closer to the car running

[s14seriesII]

Sense wire should run to the positive battery terminal... But as a cheat can be run to the 12v post on the alternator if you are confident your charge wire and connections are 100% quality and adequate size cable

Light wire should turn on when ignition is on

[Powerbite]

Alright so iv finished my conversion now, on the stock computer with the 6 speed. Does anyone have any power figures or dyno charts for these engines on the stock computer?
Im waiting on the tailshaft for the RN25 diff to be completed and curious how much they make compared to quads

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/4/7/3/6/539996.jpg (http://s618.photobucket.com/user/iBMXJames/media/IMG_20140614_142525_zps31c0deaa.jpg.html)

[Sam-Q]

looks neat, did you have to modify the intake manifold to make it clear the break booster or anything else? Do you have a clutch master hiding under there?

[Powerbite]

looks neat, did you have to modify the intake manifold to make it clear the break booster or anything else? Do you have a clutch master hiding under there?
Clutch master is there with remote reservoir, didnt have to modify the intake although its very close considering how far back we put the engine. The custom mounts have been to made to put the engine on the factory lean which also gave more clearance between the booster/intake

[INVSBL]

do you have any pictures or a build thread i could look at for the remote reservoir?


im struggeling for ideas. replacements for the clutch master and lack of space..

[Powerbite]

do you have any pictures or a build thread i could look at for the remote reservoir?


im struggeling for ideas. replacements for the clutch master and lack of space..

I dont have either sorry, best option would be a remote reservoir behind the drivers strut tower

[ehendrikd]

do you have any pictures or a build thread i could look at for the remote reservoir?


im struggeling for ideas. replacements for the clutch master and lack of space..

I remotely mounted the clutch reservoir in my Beams conversion with a banjo fitting sourced from Enzed after reading this post (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php/70117-Jarrod-s-Beams-Powered-Drift-and-Track-Project?p=868307&viewfull=1#post868307), you can just make out the banjo and bolt in the 7th and 8th photos down.

[INVSBL]

I remotely mounted the clutch reservoir in my Beams conversion with a banjo fitting sourced from Enzed after reading this post (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php/70117-Jarrod-s-Beams-Powered-Drift-and-Track-Project?p=868307&viewfull=1#post868307), you can just make out the banjo and bolt in the 7th and 8th photos down.

ah mint, thank you for that.

[triplerotor]

hello guys, im new here. planning to build an drag purpose all motor 3sge beams on a ke70. im x interested to go for turbo. ive search everywhere on the net but everyone keep asking to switch to turbo. but ive a bet with my fren who r building b16+b20 civic so i need to go NA. how far 3sge can go for na? ive seen 230+hp on wheels but is there any 250-260hp 3sge beams? is there any chance winning with a vtec? lol.

[AJPS]

about 300hp is possible...but $$$$$

[Celica RA45]

which you havnt got :DD:DD:DD or mine with 340 hp at 9200

[AJPS]

post some dyno sheets glenn to really get people excited!

[Celica RA45]

dont have 2

[BrianK92]

Hi guys, new here not sure if this is the place to ask this but i could't find any info on it. going to be doing a 3sge blacktop swap in a little while try to gather up as much info as possible, this thread was very helpful so far. one of my questions, im going to just make an air intake for the swap but wondering what diameter the pipe has to be for the maf sensor. if it has to be the same as the pipe on the stock air box if so what size? Thanks in advance

[Powerbite]

Hi guys, new here not sure if this is the place to ask this but i could't find any info on it. going to be doing a 3sge blacktop swap in a little while try to gather up as much info as possible, this thread was very helpful so far. one of my questions, im going to just make an air intake for the swap but wondering what diameter the pipe has to be for the maf sensor. if it has to be the same as the pipe on the stock air box if so what size? Thanks in advance

I didnt find the diameter to be an issue, it was more baffling the air before the maf to make the computer run correctly/smoothly. I welded in 2 cross bars same angle/size as stock airbox ones and works a treat. People also say the position of the maf before the bend can cause rough idle but iv never found that to be an issue

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/4/7/3/6/540769.jpg (http://s618.photobucket.com/user/iBMXJames/media/IMG_1895_zps65c0a783.jpg.html)

(Photobucket rotated it for some reason)

[Matt]

I had to do the baffling for my jzx110 conversion in my cressida in the intake piping, but I also found it worked ok on a 90 degree bend.

[08ftwyo]

Ok, this question is aimed at people with standard 3SGE beams conversions done. In relation to clean running of the motor, have you felt like there were any issues? As in there felt like there were flat spots under load of acceleration? Have just heard from a friend tonight that using a standard ECU is not worth bothering with, however after fucking around with ITB's on a 16v standard ECU life is all the life I want to lead at the moment. Also any power figure from standard black tops running std ecu etc would be greatly appreciated!! TELLL YOUR FRIENDS

[4.5AG]

Need comments regarding cutting and shutting the oil pan by a couple of centimeters .(including oil pick up and deep stick) for extra clearance, this will obviously will hold lesser engine oil.any other pros and cons



...http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/04/
f9ebf29ba79880ace03ae6036cea0a61.jpghttp://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/5/8/9/541554.jpg

[Matt]

as long as the baffle clearances are still the same it should be ok

[Powerbite]

Anyone got the stock Air/Fuel ratios on 3SGE, cant seem to find it!

[Powerbite]

What sort of oil pressure is everyone getting on their 3SGE's? Preferably @ warm/normal running temp idle and 7000+ RPM

[YADASH]

COULD I KINDLY ASK YOU GUYS ON ADVICE ON PUTTING IN THE BLACK TOP BEAMS ENGINE INTO A KE70 COROLLA.a FEW QUESTIONS, WILL I NEED TO CUT ANYWHERE ON THE BODY TO FIT THE 6 SPEED GEARBOX IN? DOES THE SUMP OR OIL PUMP NEEDS TO BE CHANGED? THE GUY THAT HAS THE ENGINE FOR SALE HAS IT WITH THE STD COMPUTER BOX.. WILL IT BE POSSIBLE TO USE THAT AND POSSIBLE USE A SEPRATE MANAGEMENT IF I WANT TO FIT THE 20V THROTTLE BODIES?
YOUR ADVICE WILL BE HIGHLY APPRECIATED HEREIN.

THANKS GUYS.
YADZ

[AJPS]

you need to cut the back of the sump

and also the back of the tunnel with the 6 speed (not much) but will need some massaging around the front as well

the sq engineering kit will give you a bit more room at the back of the motor (water outlet)

you will need an aftermarket ecu

[YADASH]

you need to cut the back of the sump

and also the back of the tunnel with the 6 speed (not much) but will need some massaging around the front as well

the sq engineering kit will give you a bit more room at the back of the motor (water outlet)

you will need an aftermarket ecu


Much appreciated,it seems they guy that had this engine at a bargain has sold it.Its back to the drawing board.Very unsure to continue with 7a 20v.It broke 3 times with.i dont know if its due to the cams,(kelford 302 deg) or the recipe is just not correct?Any suggestions?

[3S_86]

Hey guys, I'm going to be doing the Beams swap into my AE86, running ITBs and aftermarket ECU to start with. My question is in regards to what rear end to run with this set-up. The car will be used for occasional road course, auto-x events and "spirited" driving on the weekends. I am wanting to hear what people with this swap are using for their rear end. Will a Kouki gts rear be able to handle the Beams combined with auto-x events? I'm located in the US so I can come across a gts rear every once in a while but locating a Celica Supra rear for sale is very challenging and I don't want to go the Ford 9" route. I know Weir Perfomance here in the States makes a stronger upgraded axle for the AE86 but they can get pretty pricey. I just wanted to get some opinions and hear what you guys have to say. Thanks in advance for your help.

[Phatcraft]

I'm working on finishing up my Beams swap. I have found some differences in some of the wiring advice I have found on the net. Specifically pin E1 on the ECU. I have seen that to be 1. Ignition 12v
2. Constant 12V and 3. Ground. Anyone have any advice on this? I have tried both ways and neither make my engine run, so I am probably missing something else as well. Pics of the project included to hopefully get some attention!

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1PNufrpn3o6UCopdjC_cpzf4t9YRT1NRMlg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=16ihcNGpiry9xX6p_UrLFIl-VzPVwoatWhQ

[LittleRedSpirit]

Mate dont worry about the wiring, your steering wheel is on the wrong side!

Just kidding, and sorry no answers. Have you checked sam qs site for the wiring diagrams, I think he hosts them. SQEngineering.

[Phatcraft]

Oh damn! Your right, I will have to get right on that. Wish I could pick up a RHD AE71 over here in the states, that would be a sweet project.

Seriously though, the SQ diagrams have been a huge help. Here are the ones I have been looking at:

This to me says it should be constant 12v:

37425

But this seems to reference is being ground?
37426


and this guys site https://thrillxissues.wordpress.com/2015/07/10/3sge-beams-wiring/

says "BATT E1 is GROUND(dont make the same mistake i made and put power to it lol)"

Hope someone can clear this up! If anyone needs help with anything else for the swap into an ae71 I have most everything else figured out and lots of pictures.

[mitch16]

just been through the same thing, 3sge into a ae70, and saw that guys link about "batt e1 is ground(dont make the same mistake i made and put power to it lol)" i can confirm he is lying or misinformed. I gave it a ground and blew a fuses and cud not get the engine to fire, i gave it a IG+ and it started first go.

[LittleRedSpirit]

I'm interested for a comparison, has anyone got a 1/4 Mile time for a stock beams engine in an ae86?

Looking for a target time when I race the 2az86.

[Phatcraft]

just been through the same thing, 3sge into a ae70, and saw that guys link about "batt e1 is ground(dont make the same mistake i made and put power to it lol)" i can confirm he is lying or misinformed. I gave it a ground and blew a fuses and cud not get the engine to fire, i gave it a IG+ and it started first go.

Thank you! Any other wiring gotchas you can remember? I feel like I am really close. Basically I have this going on:


E1 E8 E10 E16 to power along with a black with red strip that I traced back to the EFI relay


Is there anything else I am missing. I can crank but get no spark.




Thanks for the help!

[mitch16]

Thank you! Any other wiring gotchas you can remember? I feel like I am really close. Basically I have this going on:


E1 E8 E10 E16 to power along with a black with red strip that I traced back to the EFI relay


Is there anything else I am missing. I can crank but get no spark.




Thanks for the help!

I had the very same, and it was cranking but wudnt fire. But then I found another wire that needed a power, coming from the engine but not going to any of the ecu plugs, it wasn't de usual black with red stripe either, I'm not sure but I think it was black with a white stripe, a heavy wire, I will have a look 2moro and try see wat wire it was, it's been a few months and its all tidyed up and hidden but I'll have a look!

[Phatcraft]

I had the very same, and it was cranking but wudnt fire. But then I found another wire that needed a power, coming from the engine but not going to any of the ecu plugs, it wasn't de usual black with red stripe either, I'm not sure but I think it was black with a white stripe, a heavy wire, I will have a look 2moro and try see wat wire it was, it's been a few months and its all tidyed up and hidden but I'll have a look!



You rock dude, that was exactly what I was missing. It was a medium gauge black with white stripe wire that powered the coilpacks.
It fired right up after i gave it 12v!


Now I have to figure out why it wont idle for more than 2 seconds and when I give it throttle it just dies...
I dont have my o2 sensor connected yet but I think thing that would cause an idle problem. I do have 1 broken thing and 1 plug I can find a home for maybe you can clue me in to their use.


The first plug is this one at the back of the engine. Single wire, I cant find anything nearby it could plug into.
37427


The second is a little plue module under the intake, that is supposed to have a vaccum hose going to it but was broken off.


Any ideas?


Thanks again for the help!

[mitch16]

Delighted to hear she finally fired up, an awesome feeling if your anything like me!

the vacuum unit under the manifold should have two vacuums going to it? One goes under the tps and i think the other goes to the tank?
heres a link of the vacuum assembly
http://www.japan-parts.eu/toyota/jp/2002/altezza-altezza-gita/sxe10-aefvf/4_242110_003_/tool-engine-fuel/1708_vacuum-piping#9091012249
does that grey plug not go down on a little grey suppressor unit bolted to the head above the gearbox?

As for it cutting out, Is it immobilised? think they came with an immobiliser as an option, most dont have thou. You running OEM ECU? Is it getting correct fuel pressure? what pump and regulator are you using?

[Phatcraft]

Oh man, yes I was so excited. Still am!

Thanks for the link, I found another picture as well and I think it is the purge valve solenoid, which I don't need.
The other one I will hunt for next time I work on the car hopefully it is just hidden back there where I can't see it.

OEM ecu running, running about 65psi right now using the AEM in tank fuel pump and some random FPR

I actually just remembered there is only like 1/2 gallon gas in the tank so I'm hoping its as easy as that. That would be really lame to end up with an imobilized one. Nothing I have seen on it would indicate it is but I dont really know what to look for.

[Phatcraft]

Delighted to hear she finally fired up, an awesome feeling if your anything like me!

the vacuum unit under the manifold should have two vacuums going to it? One goes under the tps and i think the other goes to the tank?
heres a link of the vacuum assembly
http://www.japan-parts.eu/toyota/jp/2002/altezza-altezza-gita/sxe10-aefvf/4_242110_003_/tool-engine-fuel/1708_vacuum-piping#9091012249
does that grey plug not go down on a little grey suppressor unit bolted to the head above the gearbox?

As for it cutting out, Is it immobilised? think they came with an immobiliser as an option, most dont have thou. You running OEM ECU? Is it getting correct fuel pressure? what pump and regulator are you using?

So I have confirmed I do not have whatever that little grey plug goes into on the back of the had.
Any ideas what is does or even better a part number?




Thanks

[mitch16]

its a radio condensor part number 90980-04116, this the best pic i cud find online, im not near my own car at the mo to get a proper pic...
37429
90980-04116Have you got this little grey box? heres a link to a diagram
http://www.japan-parts.eu/toyota/jp/2002/altezza-altezza-gita/sxe10-aefvf/4_242110_003_/electrical/8601_radio-receiver-amplifier-condenser/3#86011A

90980-04116

[Phatcraft]

Thanks so much mitch16 I got it running today!!! I had the MAF in backwards! Flipped it around and it fired right up. Now it idles but as soon as I give it any throttle ti coughs and sputters. Almost like its not giving any more fuel to compensate for extra air. As soon as I let off throttle it idles way up for a second then smooths out again. I'm thinking its something to due with my air intake setup.

[mitch16]

hmmm....mine was doing the opposite, it was iding badly, spluttering and missing, but was taking the throttle fine with no splutter. i assumed it was due to some sensor i had done away with in the conversion so i got an Apexi power fc ecu so i cud map the fault out of it, but im still waiting on the Mapping guy to give me a day so i havnt gotten to the bottom of the bad idling. Is your throttle body buzzing/humming when you put on ignition? mine was on the standard ECU, but not on the Apexi. I think i read somewhere its suppose to buzz! Keep me posted on this when you get to the bottom of it! I didnt use an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator, i used an OEM one from a 3sgte, and now im wondering if its running the correct fuel pressure!

[Phatcraft]

My throttle body is not buzzing, I have not looked at it carefully like have have coils Maf etc for power and ground. Thats a good sugjesstion for next step. I have my fuel pressure set at 62psi, I have heard these engines are very picky especially when you run them stock return-less system.

[mitch16]

i see people running them at approx 60psi, but i tested the fuel pressure in my rail when the engine was still in the altezza and running sweetly and it was reading 40psi on idle and didnt change when revved. mine is not returnless, its running the 45psi return regulator from a st205 3sgte. i think ill fit an adjustable FPR and increase my pressure up to 60 ish, it may not fix my idle issue but it cant do any harm!

[LittleRedSpirit]

Sorry to butt in. I know you Beams guys love long trumpets. Any of you run silvertop ITBS? If so does anyone have any trumpets north of 110mm I can try on my setup to see if I can find some power? It made 5kw more just going from 75mm to 104mm. I've noticed how well the beams engine reacts to longer trumpets and I want to try on the 2azfe. I would prefer to borrow a few different lengths and do some testing till I find what's ideal.

[Phatcraft]

So I got things running much better by removing the air filter and the little honeycomb air smoother thing I got. I am able to rev the engine now!
But i'm fairly certain its in some kind of limp mode, as the throttle motor does not do anything. I cant seem to find any diagrams that show what pins need power or ground. Only that 2 of them go to the ECU. Anyone have any ideas?

[Matt]

Have you supplied constant power to the BM pin on the ecu?

[Phatcraft]

Have you supplied constant power to the BM pin on the ecu?

Hi Matt, I dont have the car where I am at right now but I believe BM+(pin a6) does have power to it. I will check next time I work on it to make sure. I was able to get codes off it.
I have one code that is for the o2 sensor heater. and another code 89 which is for the throttle body motor.
I found this page http://www.2jzgarage.com/2013/07/etcs-i-dbw-system-troubleshooting/ and while it is for the 2jzge I am going to try the peddle press down reset method and see if that gets things going again.

Alex