CROWER 4AGE Forced induction cam specs

[kerola]

Looking at getting some cams for my 4AGTE build
just wondering if anyone has used Crower cams?
also if someone could give me an indication on the valve lift in 'mm', is it 8.74mm?
this seems alot for 'Stage 2' cams
i am looking for something that i dont need to go shimless buckets, i already have uprated valve springs


Part# | Description | Advertised Duration | Duration @ .050" | Gross Lift
61822T-2 (http://www.crower.com/cgi-bin/detail.cgi?prod_id=61822T-2) | Stage 2 | 270 / 270 | 218 / 218 | .344 / .344 http://www.crower.com/images/1x1.gif
4AGZE forced induction applications.
Big lift, short duration profile.
RPM Range: 2500 to 7500.
thanks

[xero]

thats a fairly large duration cam for a turbo, the lift is bit up there too.

the lift would be closer to about 9.5 than 8.74, even still it would be a good idea to do the solid lifters conversion from a 1szfe.
with the 270 duration peak power would be around the 8000rpm mark. i would go for a slightly smaller cam such as a 265 with that lift to maximise the mid range and get the turbo on boost quicker.

[kerola]

well i was going to go a pair of the toda spec cams 264 and 7.9mm lift as i have toda valve springs already.
but these came up at a good price, but i might look into getting local custom grind cams to similar specs.
i just don't really think it is necessary to go nuts on the head for forced induction

what would be the maximum lift i could go with out the need for solid lifter conversion?
thanks

[Skylar]

http://www.performanceforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67252137&highlight=porting
Porting always helps.

It's not the lift, well it is, but the ramp rates that help the shim get thrown out. Of course more lift will require a more aggressive ramp rate. Get kelford cams if you want to retain shim over. Get whatever you want if you go shimless/shim under.

and those BC cams are 8.74mm.

[xero]

what would be the maximum lift i could go with out the need for solid lifter conversion?
thanks

pretty much anything over 8-8.5mm lift.


skylar, can i ask why you believe that if kerola gets kelford cams he wont need to do the solid lifter conversion, where as buying any other brand (such as wade, crow, tighe, HKS, toda, tomei etc) will require it?

[Skylar]

There's a thread about cams on PF where one dude said ej20 was revving to 8500 with kelfords without a problem and another set of heads he built 'spat' shims out at lower revs. He compared he two profiles and noticed the cam was pushing on the edge of the shim causing it to tip up(?) and leave the bucket as the peak came around. I'll dig up the thread if you want. I don't think I explained it very well.

Other brands may be fine but that engine builder recommends kelfords as they have been proven to keep shims in. Maybe other guys have proven other cams to work with shim over with revs but I haven't come across them. I would go try to get durations at different lifts for a bunch of different cams and get the cams with the most area under the graph and run shimless/shim under.

And can we quit calling it 'solid lifter conversion'?

[kerola]

well as its turbo and it will probably run out of puff at 7,500 rpm,
I'm looking at cams around 264 x 8.0 lift roughly.
i have already organized to get manifolds and head flowed/port matched and also some minor head work.
but before i send it away i want to organize cams. So it looks like either HKS, Toda, kelford or custom WADE cams.

i would be interested to see what duration and lift those kelford cams were.
thanks for the help

[xero]

There's a thread about cams on PF where one dude said ej20 was revving to 8500 with kelfords without a problem and another set of heads he built 'spat' shims out at lower revs. He compared he two profiles and noticed the cam was pushing on the edge of the shim causing it to tip up(?) and leave the bucket as the peak came around. I'll dig up the thread if you want. I don't think I explained it very well.

Other brands may be fine but that engine builder recommends kelfords as they have been proven to keep shims in. Maybe other guys have proven other cams to work with shim over with revs but I haven't come across them. I would go try to get durations at different lifts for a bunch of different cams and get the cams with the most area under the graph and run shimless/shim under.

And can we quit calling it 'solid lifter conversion'?

i understand where your talking about as i have the same issue with my cams at the moment (and partly why they wont fit) but it has nothing to do with the brand of cams i have. it has EVERYTHING to do with the amount of lift they have (which is 11mm by the way).
due to the large lobe on the cam it doesnt not provide the pressure completely on the valve spring itself until the lobe is fully on the bucket itself, and because of this it can "flick" the edge of the bucket and spring and not fully open the valve, damage the bucket and possibly fuck the spring.


kerola, i would (depending on turbo) spin the engine to no more than 8000rpm with the 264 cams and if you can go for at least 9mm lift. forced induction needs lift more than duration.
also a set of cam gears will help to make the most of the turbo and cams.

[kerola]

i already have a pair of t3 adjustable cam gears, engine wont rev past 7,500 rpm but i just don't want to do solid lifters, to much of a brain fuck.

[Skylar]

I see what you mean xero, you have them huge cams where the cam is bigger than the bucket and the cutting of the head. No cam lobe profile will fix that.

kerola, 4ag's have solids from the factory.

[kerola]

i thought 4ag's have shim-over-bucket...?
and that's what limits cam lift size?

[kerola]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDP5K2fq1p8

[Skylar]

yeah, shim over bucket. Other cars have shimless(buckets ordered in varying thicknesses) or shim under bucket. SR/CA/RB20/25 have hydraulic stuff where they're self-adjusting.

Shimless/shim-under will allow you to use bigger cams but you need to make sure your valve springs aren't going to bind with the increased lift either.

[kerola]

i have toda uprated valve springs as stated in first post.
i think i might just get wade cams made 264 x 8.1 lift.
just play it save with standard lifters and and port/ flow the head and manifolds and use the adjustable cam gears to get timing perfect.
there are alot of people getting freak power figures above what i am after with stock cams, this will just make it alot easier.

[xero]

the cam gears will help with getting the powerband right, best thing to do is trial and error, but the 264s will be very nice with the turbo.