Small Port, no power?

[Slimer86]

Car - AE71

motor - AE92 Small port 4age

use - Track

problem - No power

occurs/started when - When I tried to drive it

personal situation - Need coin and time and a running small port for the weekend, will beg.

Alrighty,
Transplanted from an AE92, utilising 2l external surge tank, new 070 pressure pump, new facet lift pump.
Stock motor, stock loom, extended injector, alternator, TPS, MAP wiring.
Ignitor, CAS, power feeds etc are stock length and untouched to ecu.
TRD copy extractors, cut and shut small port mainfold with small port throttlebody.
Brand new Toyota leads, and aftermarket non-platinum plugs.

Note: Cut and shut has an alloy block welded on the front and was machined to suit a GZE throttle body which is a fair few mm smaller, so there is a step present from the throttle body to the intake manifold.

So, I tried starting it on the weekend, and it run like crap, but had run it previously in this car smoothly.
Found that #1 injector seal into the head was pinched and causing backfire etc. Replaced, no leak.
Started it again, and still run like crap.
Backfire from intake and exhaust.
Shorted TE1 and E1, checked timing, 10deg.
Thought it had no fuel, put in 10l of v-power and improved idle but had no power when I tried to drive it.

Drained 22l of fuel from it this morning, replaced with 5l v-power.
Fill surge tank for about 5mins, primed rail, turned over motor with Coil pack disconnected (to build up oil pressure).
Started really rough, idle improved after a few secs, and sounded smoothish. Low free revs and it wasn't backfiring much, except on snap open throttle and snap shut.
Drove down the street,still no power, and didn't feel like any improvement.

Checked ECU code, and only had 14.
14 is for ignitor, but would this have tripped when I tried to crank it with the coil disconnected?

If I rev it and give it the beans (>90deg) it blows a slight amount of blue smoke.
This is doing my head in. I wanted it on the track for Annual this weekend, but I can't see it happening at this rate.
Last things that come to my mind, are damaged valve / seats from when the #1 injector seal was creating a very lean #1, cyl but the spark plug didn't appear much different to the other 3.
No compression, which I don't have a compression tester and have never checked on a car before.
Head gasket; But no oil in the rad or ice coffee in the oil filler cap, let alone steam.
Had a new fuel filter in it, but don't think it would be filled with crap seeing as it had 22l of fuel in it.

Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[slide86]

sounds like timing to me, or fuel pressure.

but you say you have checked timing and it was spot on. just remember there is a difference between fuel pressure and fuel flow. it may be flowing but not have any pressure behind it.

[timbo]

double check timing and make sure the belt hasn't skipped a tooth on either cam gear. i had a similar problem a while ago which was timing related and also discovered the TPS wasn't working due to a broken connection, so maybe throw a multi meter on that.

[ke70dave]

also unplug your TPS and map (singularly and both) to see if there is a change.

it should run fine with no TPS, but with no MAP it will go into limp mode.

when my tps was stuffed, it threw up no error, but gave simliar simptoms to what you are describing. but yer unplug it and it should run fine without it (if TPS is the problem)

[Slimer86]

With no MAP plugged in, it stalled.

Fuel pressure?
How can I check it, it has the stock FPR on the stock rail, vac line to the intake manifold.
Swap FPR for 20v one and try that?

Ill check the cam timing this afternoon and will disconnect the TPS and try that also.

KE70dave, when you unplugged the TPS, did it drive fine? And then did you replace the TPS?

[Slimer86]

So, I changed the ignitor for a silvertop 20v one, and after some pursuasion the clip fit without breaking clips.
Checked the cam timing to TDC and also the dist to TDC, both correctly set as per Toyota manual.

Changed an earth position from between the body and bracket for my ignitor, to be directly bolted to my ignitor bracket.
Checked fuel pressure by pinching return and fuel delivery, require a guage to check rail pressure.
Didn't check TPS. (tomorrow)

Started it up, run smoother, didn't put out any codes after revving it to 3k and holding for 10secs.
But, it seems to be sluggish to get up in revs in comparison to my 20v with light flywheel, it doesnt' seem to want to free-rev, and appears restricted somehow.
I didnt get a chance to drive it, but will tomorrow sometime.

[timbo]

when you check the TPS let us know!

[slide86]

blocked exhaust?

[Slimer86]

Ok,Its idling smooth.
checked TPS voltage, 5.1v, checked resistance to VTA and E2, 3.9kohm.
In spec.
Disconnected TPS, still backfired, idle went rough. Spat out code 41 - TPS.
Disconnected MAP vac line, and run crap, re-connected and idled smooth again.
Checked my surge tank set up. Changed fuel in(L/P pump) to 2nd top inlet from the top, and the top to be fuel tank return.
Filled surge tank, fired it up again.
Still drove like crap. struggle to get to 4k and above.
Only code I get is 51 - A/Cond.
Checked earths, 2 on block, one direct from body to head lifting point which is also to ECU earth.

Last things I can think of short of checking exhaust - Which is extractors, no cat, Trust exhaust with muffler and cannon after diff.
Distributor cap and rotor.
Any other thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated.
If you are in Adelaide and have a bit of time spare for a looksy, that would be appreciated too.
Cheers for your help guys.

[Slimer86]

Found it!!
# 2 and 3 fuel injectors aren't doing anything.
The injector plugs are gettin an earth pulse from the ecu but the injectors are dead. :O(
Found it because there appeared to be a temp discolouration difference between #1 & 4 extractor pipe and 2 & 3.
Unplugged #2 and the idle didn't change, unplugged #3 and it remained unchanged.
Arrrggghh!!!
So 4ag's idle smoothly on 1 and 4 cyl, but don't drive too well.
Good old 1,3,4,2 firing order.

Anyone have a spare set of small port injectors, to lend or sell?
Preferably before Sat? :O)

[hachi_dk]

Good work. I would have lit the c*nt on fire

[Slimer86]

Trust me,thats still pretty close. Touge Boy said the same to me the other day, and said he was amazed I was persisting with it.
Fark!!
Got injectors checked by a company in Adelaide, and they are fine.
Last thoughts I have are compression is too low, and wont allow fuel air to atomise properly and allow it to fire.
It has spark on #2 and #3, and now fuel, its just not firing the charge.

Next is compression test, which I assume is going to be very low on those 2 cyls.
It hasn't got any bottom end rattle. No funky smoke either.
Compression rings or valve's/seals it is then.
Have I ever told you how much I hate cars?

[slide86]

BHG between cyl 2 & 3.

my bluebird did that exact thing. Kept pushing the compression between cyl.....but ran a bit more rough than yours is sounding.

you might have burnt out exhaust valves causing the poor comp

[Slimer86]

Bugger. I am going to borrow a comp tester from Timmy D, but never done it.
Ill have a read through the manual and have a sus.
If its just a BHG, all good, ill get the head checked, and put in a new TRD.

The idle is ridiculously smooth, could rest a 50c piece on the rocker cover.

What do you mean by burn out the exhaust valves?

[Touge Boy]

High EGT's burn the valve causing it not to seal properly against the head, thus losing compression> What i did to the f100.


Shoulda gotten a Beams. Burn it! Burn it now!

[biggo]

sounds like mine.

i have a pretty good theory that the dizzy finds it hard to get the resets for spark on number 1. I mean face it, whe cut a fuckload out of the body looms so yair.

my injectors do funny things everyday too.

[Slimer86]

The loom from ecu to the dist and ignitor hasn't been altered from factory.

The only cutting and extension was to intake side, injectors, TPS, alt cold start.
So, it seems the head gasket or something along those lines is causing the problems.
Thanks for the help so far guys, will let you know what happens when the head comes off.

[timbo]

great work on getting this far, i hope you find the exact fault and fix it! kudos sir.

[Slimer86]

POS! Well, back in Adelaide, worked on it today. 4 exhaust cam flopping around, scored head,cap and cam. Took head off, replaced gasket,got another head, put it back together.
Started it, checked timing, still running the same.
Blow by like a mofo. Tried to contact someone about a comp tester, but no return of calls, waste of coin on vrs kit and head bolts.Would have told me rings are rooted beyond return.

Thanks for help, engine stuffed, and car is going over a cliff.
I hate cars

[tottacrolla]

Your problem could be related to the inlet manifold cut 'n shut.
When mine was done I had similar problems to you.
Upon investigation it became clear that the problem when doing the cut 'n shut is related to the engine breather pipe, I thought that the breather simply went into the inlet plenum but in fact it goes via a small internal cast in pipe directly to a port in the throttle body. When the end is cut off and re-welded the cast in pipe does'nt line up with anything. It is possible in your case that the breather pipe is completey blocked off as a plate has been welded on.
Check very carefully for air leaks around the throttle body.

[Slimer86]

Already done that, disconnected it.
Throttle body has gasket goo between.

Can't say I have ever had a 4age breath the way it was out of the crank case vent.
Well, think I have made the justified decision to rip the engine out, either run the head on a silvertop bottom end (change of pistons necessary?), or run big port on small port computer, or just do the complete silvertop swap, and just hack the crap out of the firewall for the dizzy, purely because it will make me feel better.

The amount of blow by that its getting is well beyond normal.
Still wouldn't mind comp testing it, just to make it all clear.
Thanks anyway.

[timbo]

Is the oil drain out the back of the head connected? Maybe when the cam came loose something may have blocked the drain line? Just thinking out loud really... My smallport has a bit of blow by because, as I discovered the other day, the oil drain isn't in use due to RWD water pipes...